Thaksin isn’t the first corrupt or ousted Thai leader, but he certainly stands out of the crowd.
He just doesn’t follow Thai gentleman’s rules of conduct.
He also has no concept of sin or merit that “Thai” Thais can relate to, he judges everything and everyone relative to how it affects himself, not to any “absolute” criteria.
And, it is, according to one of the PAD chiefs, that Da Torpedo having mentioned the Blue Diamond and the Queen together resorted the “elites” having to take action.
According to my understanding, and that comes from a PAD chief I interviewed who was part of the seizure of Government House, Da Torpedo on stage (perhaps 7 June) related the missing Blue Diamond to the Queen of Thailand.
And according to the hierarchy of the PAD, the UDD used as background, at Sanam Luang, shortly after, a picture of a dragon wearing a blue diamond. After that we had indeed the well publicized , pictures from the UDD stage of the monarch and the queen and Aphisit.
I don’t know what CD you guys are talking about. But, to Chris Beale, just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It just means that you are not trusted enough by your friends on some sensitive issues – and just that they don’t want to hurt your feelings telling you so. Surely you have been in Thailand long enough to recognize this culture now.
I’m not even sure if Chris Beale is a part of the 2.4 operation. Going through his past comments sometimes I can’t help feeling he is fishing for information and just baiting for the next victim of a certain draconian law? Sorry, it’s just an impression.
Everything is fine except the last one… “to be guillotined or shot”
Even in a western world that you may express your political idea freely but you still can’t say to the public that some people must be killed. So, in my opinion, this very last words may constitute an offense.
However, the punishment should not be decade-long jail term. If I were a judge, I would only fine her a few hundred thousand Baht.
[…] Summary of the court decision against Khun Da Torpedo New Mandala has recently posted a short summary of the major points of the court decision against Khun Da Torpedo, which was reproduced in full in the most recent edition of р╕Яр╣Йр╕▓р╣Ар╕Фр╕╡р╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щ. We recommend reading this useful post: 20 January 2010, “On the judgment against Da Torpedo” […]
I can’t really back up the statement “The CD is everywhere” since it’s based on personal experience only. Thai friends I knew had it, made copies, passed them out. People I asked at work had all seen it. One executive said her driver obtained a copy for her, suggesting that it crossed classes. My anecdotal experience suggests that it is widely available but that no one wants to be too public about it.
@ Suzie Wong 33
Thanks but I’m not qualified to write scholarly on Thailand. Just an interested layperson like you. That’s why I come to NM, to read posts and discussion by those who have more information than I and are willing to share it.
“Innuendo” ? Another tongue-in-cheek or just horrendous ignorance? Methinks the latter…or, someone is playing mind games with a dearth of that material himself.
aha mr young, so thai-chinese are not “real thai”, eh..? does that apply to ALL thai-chinese..? including, say, a certain someone: US-born, swiss-educated, thai-chinese mother… is HE also not a “real thai” mr young?
perhaps we should charge mr young with lese majeste?
“As soon as the Herald arrived near the front gate, our car was surrounded by uniformed soldiers..”
And thus ends their fact finding mission and begins the story based on innuendos, conjuncture, and speculation.
Their only factual observation, that Hmong have no pavements or permanent structures, is not a sign of inhumane treatment or political persecution anyway.
And the allegation that Laos had build two camps, one for show at Ban Pha Lak, and another, secret, the real camp, at Paksan, is just too hard to believe considering that Laos already had over three thousand Hmong to sort out before the latest group arrived.
BANGKOK, 19 January 2010 (IRIN) – The UN Refugee Agency (UNHCR) says it still has no access to more than 4,000 Lao Hmong deported from Thailand three weeks ago amid an international furore.
“We’re still seeking access to all of the Lao Hmong who were deported in order to observe the arrangements that were made for them to settle in Laos, and also to assist with the resettlement of the 158 who were registered refugees,” Kitty McKinsey, UNHCR regional spokeswoman, told IRIN.
It is universal human rights for citizens to overthrow tyrannical regime and supplant it with a democratic government that respect God-given rights of its citizens to pursue happiness.
I can write in the fashion of denial and deceive like yours, Woo and Chris, but what’s the point? I am writing here with the purpose to see a way out for peaceful transformation. But apparently that option is not available because instead of having a frank talk, you are playing a psychological operation.
There is nothing wrong to have the system like Indonesia with the direct election of its leader. The current system in Thailand doesn’t work, it is tearing the whole fabric of society apart simply just to maintain Phumipon’s family?
Phumipon’s family is too much a burden. The south burns the school down because they don’t want Phumipon’s picture hanging in the classroom and teaching their kids to worship him like a God. The northeast wants their son Suwicha Takor, an engineer to be released from jail. The north wants their hero back. Bangkok wants Da Torpedo to be released. None of these people did anything wrong. I have the rights to respect or not to respect someone. It’s wrong to have a law to force its citizens to respect Phumipon’s family.
People have reasons when they do not respect Phumipon, Wachiralongkorn, and the monarchy. No country should have the rights to put anyone in jail if they don’t respect the head of state. President Bush or President Obama would not put anyone in jail for not respecting them. So if presidential system would solve the Thai lese majeste problem, why not?
p. 203: In another part of the same speech DT is judged as having spoken words leading to the understanding that the King was behind, or gave his support to, the 19 September 2006 coup d’etat, and he might carry out another coup in the future. Also, DT used the term “р╣Др╕нр╣Йр╕Хр╕▓р╣Бр╕Бр╣И” (“that old bastard”), which was understood as implying the King.
I think the term “old fart” would be a more accurate translation of “р╣Др╕нр╣Йр╕Хр╕▓р╣Бр╕Б” into colloquial English. Furthermore, I think she was actually referring to Gen. Prem, and not the King.
Change is coming!! We shall execute righteousness and judgement for all that are oppressed.
Needless to say that Da Torpedo is correct in every single point. Amazing that she understood all those actions way ahead us, even though we have been discussing about political events daily for months! Her analytical thinking is fantastic!
The United Nations Human Rights Commission has to get involve in this. It is against any human conscience to jail an innocent person. Where are ASEAN, the US, UK, Australia on this issue?
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The return of Thailand’s old friend
Thaksin isn’t the first corrupt or ousted Thai leader, but he certainly stands out of the crowd.
He just doesn’t follow Thai gentleman’s rules of conduct.
He also has no concept of sin or merit that “Thai” Thais can relate to, he judges everything and everyone relative to how it affects himself, not to any “absolute” criteria.
On the judgment against Da Torpedo
And, it is, according to one of the PAD chiefs, that Da Torpedo having mentioned the Blue Diamond and the Queen together resorted the “elites” having to take action.
On the judgment against Da Torpedo
According to my understanding, and that comes from a PAD chief I interviewed who was part of the seizure of Government House, Da Torpedo on stage (perhaps 7 June) related the missing Blue Diamond to the Queen of Thailand.
And according to the hierarchy of the PAD, the UDD used as background, at Sanam Luang, shortly after, a picture of a dragon wearing a blue diamond. After that we had indeed the well publicized , pictures from the UDD stage of the monarch and the queen and Aphisit.
Giles Ji Ungpakorn on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
I don’t know what CD you guys are talking about. But, to Chris Beale, just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It just means that you are not trusted enough by your friends on some sensitive issues – and just that they don’t want to hurt your feelings telling you so. Surely you have been in Thailand long enough to recognize this culture now.
I’m not even sure if Chris Beale is a part of the 2.4 operation. Going through his past comments sometimes I can’t help feeling he is fishing for information and just baiting for the next victim of a certain draconian law? Sorry, it’s just an impression.
Superanonymous, you should be careful.
On the judgment against Da Torpedo
[…] Torpedo: Update New Mandala has posted a summary of the court decision against Da Torpedo here worth a read and some of the comments are very […]
On the judgment against Da Torpedo
Everything is fine except the last one… “to be guillotined or shot”
Even in a western world that you may express your political idea freely but you still can’t say to the public that some people must be killed. So, in my opinion, this very last words may constitute an offense.
However, the punishment should not be decade-long jail term. If I were a judge, I would only fine her a few hundred thousand Baht.
Giles Ji Ungpakorn on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
Chris Beale — Are you serious about wanting a copy of the CD? It’s about 28 minutes long.
On the judgment against Da Torpedo
[…] Summary of the court decision against Khun Da Torpedo New Mandala has recently posted a short summary of the major points of the court decision against Khun Da Torpedo, which was reproduced in full in the most recent edition of р╕Яр╣Йр╕▓р╣Ар╕Фр╕╡р╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щ. We recommend reading this useful post: 20 January 2010, “On the judgment against Da Torpedo” […]
On the judgment against Da Torpedo
LSS:
Out-of-context: Has your paper on Thai socio-pedagogy taken shape?
Giles Ji Ungpakorn on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
@Chris Beale #30
I can’t really back up the statement “The CD is everywhere” since it’s based on personal experience only. Thai friends I knew had it, made copies, passed them out. People I asked at work had all seen it. One executive said her driver obtained a copy for her, suggesting that it crossed classes. My anecdotal experience suggests that it is widely available but that no one wants to be too public about it.
@ Suzie Wong 33
Thanks but I’m not qualified to write scholarly on Thailand. Just an interested layperson like you. That’s why I come to NM, to read posts and discussion by those who have more information than I and are willing to share it.
Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
“Innuendo” ? Another tongue-in-cheek or just horrendous ignorance? Methinks the latter…or, someone is playing mind games with a dearth of that material himself.
The return of Thailand’s old friend
aha mr young, so thai-chinese are not “real thai”, eh..? does that apply to ALL thai-chinese..? including, say, a certain someone: US-born, swiss-educated, thai-chinese mother… is HE also not a “real thai” mr young?
perhaps we should charge mr young with lese majeste?
Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
“As soon as the Herald arrived near the front gate, our car was surrounded by uniformed soldiers..”
And thus ends their fact finding mission and begins the story based on innuendos, conjuncture, and speculation.
Their only factual observation, that Hmong have no pavements or permanent structures, is not a sign of inhumane treatment or political persecution anyway.
And the allegation that Laos had build two camps, one for show at Ban Pha Lak, and another, secret, the real camp, at Paksan, is just too hard to believe considering that Laos already had over three thousand Hmong to sort out before the latest group arrived.
Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
BANGKOK, 19 January 2010 (IRIN) – The UN Refugee Agency (UNHCR) says it still has no access to more than 4,000 Lao Hmong deported from Thailand three weeks ago amid an international furore.
“We’re still seeking access to all of the Lao Hmong who were deported in order to observe the arrangements that were made for them to settle in Laos, and also to assist with the resettlement of the 158 who were registered refugees,” Kitty McKinsey, UNHCR regional spokeswoman, told IRIN.
On the judgment against Da Torpedo
seems the judges “judged” that she raised most of the significant controversial issues of the day (and the historical one as well)
I wonder what she really said and whether the judges have correctly paraphrased the meanings?
in any case 18 years in gaol shows just how nervous Prem (and his military mates) are about any discussions of their behaviour
and I suppose we will only ever have glimpses of much the King and/or other members of his family actually initiate or just sign off on these things….
does Thailand have any formal archiving of documents or will Prem order it all burnt in his funeral pyre?
Giles Ji Ungpakorn on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
It is universal human rights for citizens to overthrow tyrannical regime and supplant it with a democratic government that respect God-given rights of its citizens to pursue happiness.
I can write in the fashion of denial and deceive like yours, Woo and Chris, but what’s the point? I am writing here with the purpose to see a way out for peaceful transformation. But apparently that option is not available because instead of having a frank talk, you are playing a psychological operation.
There is nothing wrong to have the system like Indonesia with the direct election of its leader. The current system in Thailand doesn’t work, it is tearing the whole fabric of society apart simply just to maintain Phumipon’s family?
Phumipon’s family is too much a burden. The south burns the school down because they don’t want Phumipon’s picture hanging in the classroom and teaching their kids to worship him like a God. The northeast wants their son Suwicha Takor, an engineer to be released from jail. The north wants their hero back. Bangkok wants Da Torpedo to be released. None of these people did anything wrong. I have the rights to respect or not to respect someone. It’s wrong to have a law to force its citizens to respect Phumipon’s family.
People have reasons when they do not respect Phumipon, Wachiralongkorn, and the monarchy. No country should have the rights to put anyone in jail if they don’t respect the head of state. President Bush or President Obama would not put anyone in jail for not respecting them. So if presidential system would solve the Thai lese majeste problem, why not?
On the judgment against Da Torpedo
p. 203: In another part of the same speech DT is judged as having spoken words leading to the understanding that the King was behind, or gave his support to, the 19 September 2006 coup d’etat, and he might carry out another coup in the future. Also, DT used the term “р╣Др╕нр╣Йр╕Хр╕▓р╣Бр╕Бр╣И” (“that old bastard”), which was understood as implying the King.
I think the term “old fart” would be a more accurate translation of “р╣Др╕нр╣Йр╕Хр╕▓р╣Бр╕Б” into colloquial English. Furthermore, I think she was actually referring to Gen. Prem, and not the King.
Giles Ji Ungpakorn on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
How many Susie Wong do we have here?
Susie Wong VS Suzie Wong?
On the judgment against Da Torpedo
meh..
Her deliberately severe action has brought her back a severe reaction. Karma indeed.
On the judgment against Da Torpedo
Change is coming!! We shall execute righteousness and judgement for all that are oppressed.
Needless to say that Da Torpedo is correct in every single point. Amazing that she understood all those actions way ahead us, even though we have been discussing about political events daily for months! Her analytical thinking is fantastic!
The United Nations Human Rights Commission has to get involve in this. It is against any human conscience to jail an innocent person. Where are ASEAN, the US, UK, Australia on this issue?