StanG @ #21: We can always count on you for false-dichotomy logic. You earlier doubted the concerns about Laos’s treatment of Hmong. Now you admit their life in Laos is “not peachy” but say the reports “fall short of declaring a huge human rights emergency”. So unless it’s a “huge human rights emergency” there’s no need for concern?
And as usual you cite The Nation as your source. You even question HRW’s concerns because they’re “contradictory” to The Nation. Have you not noticed that you are virtually the only person who cites The Nation except in jest?
Oo – Handley has told me “don’t say it’s not there” re. his mention of military factions, over 34 pages.
But in fact, I did not say it was “not there”, as so far as I’ve been able to briefly find post-New Year.
Is this a case of Handley doing what that pompous blatherer Kramden does – i.e. putting words into my mouth, which I have not said, inorder to attack me ?
It’s an age-old pathetic political tactic called the Straw Man syndrome.
I have argued Handley does not give enough weight, or detail about, the May ’92 military factions.
But I certainly never meant to argue he gives no mention of them. If someone can point out to me WHERE I have done this, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Somsak – the Crown Prince’s letter above strikes me as eminently sensible, reasonable, and decent.
A far cry from that characteur of malicious rumour-mongering, so beloved by Handley and Kramden.
Ditto any reconciliation with his children. Thailand could do with a lot more reconciliation, all round.
So why are some trying to cast HRH in a bad light ?
Jockeying for position, post- Bumiphol ?
Why not follow this example of family reconciliation ?
Susie Wong : a referendum extremely unlikely, I’d guess.
There would probably have to be a referendum on whether to have a referendum, on such a question !!
And from memory, Thailand has only ever had one referendum.
Happy New Year everybody! Some might find this link irrelevant but I don’t. Please see http://www.mfa.go.th/web/1381.php?depcode=22400100&depid=211
Cheers!!
“Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppression of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day” (Thomas Jefferson).
The BN Govt is not using democratic institution to persecute the PR politicians and state govts. There is no such thing as a democratic institution in malaysia. The sooner the writer and other intellectuals recognise this the better.
The Govt institutions like Police, Macc (anti coruption agency) etc is simply seen as a part of the BN (barison national or mostly UMNO). Their behaviour especially after the march 8 GE bears out this believe.
We should bring them here in Australia since australian people and government here are so nice, just like what they did to Sri lankan asylum seeker. so hypocrite…
StanG: you confuse me with someone else. You latest post seems to me to be too long. Just say that the two governments involved have your support. No need to justify that with hazy historical references as it is a clear position.
The Malaysian Anti Corruption Commission has lodged a report against Suara Keadilan (the newspaper of Keadilan/People’s Justice Party – http://en.suarakeadilan.com/ ) and Dr. Pornthip, the Thai forensic expert – accusing them of making statements that Teoh Beng Hock’s death was homicide. Read here.
A little bit of socialist history in Malaysia. I found this article in Parti Sosialis Malaysia website. It is a tribute to one of the key members in the Malaysian ‘left’.
I wonder why people still think Malaysia is a functioning democracy after reading time and time again, how the ruling party, with British assistance destroyed various legitimate views on how a country should be managed.
I would like to ask Mr. Gillmeister about his identification of Edward Breck as F.F. van de Water. I am research the use of pseudonyms by writers on Field Sport (which would include Edward Breck), even when those pseudonyms were used for non-sporting subjects. Breck certainly was an interesting man, and the identification of him as the author of “Der Bunte Hund” seems plausible. You include in your article “F.F. van de Water alias Edward Breck”, writing the poem beginning with “The steel jaws clamped and held him fast…”. Are you certain that the poem was written by Edward Breck, and not by Frederic Franklin van de Water (1890-1968), another writer who was also a member of the Anti-Seeel Trap League, who was at one time the vice president of the League? Any information on this matter would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely yours, Ken Callahan, PO Box 505, Peterborough, New Hampshire, 03458 USA, [email protected]
It seems to me that majority of Thais and neighboring countries have preference for Sirinthorn than her brother Vachiralongkorn. As such, I wonder if there could be a referendum on this issue.
I do think the character and values of leaders matter. It shapes the direction of the country toward progress and hope or backward and more turmoils. The monarchy has been a major political player in Thailand, succession should then be a matter essential for public discussion.
Ralph, thanks for HRW quote. My first impression is that it appears to be contradictory to the account published in The Nation. The truth might lie somewhere in between, or they both might be wildly inaccurate as both versions come from sides that want to find some fault with Lao government to justify their long held positions.
There’s no doubt that life of Hmong in Laos is not peachy but there’s a long way from there to being political refugees from a war that ended 35 years ago. There are over two hundred thousand Hmong who didn’t run, and there are almost four thousand Hmong who were repatriated from Thailand already(the current ones are just the last batch).
There were reports that Hmong who were sent off earlier were targets of government persecution, and that forms the basis of HRW concerns, but those reports still fall short of declaring a huge human rights emergency in Laos, and the last batch appears to get a better deal from Lao government anyway, and that is what it actually boils down to – getting a better treatment in Laos, as it became patiently clear that these people were not going anywhere else.
What is also clear is that Thailand didn’t live up to HRW and “international” standards and sent Hmong back against its earlier commitments towards those standards. It is also clear that the countries who were supposed to take those Hmongs in didn’t live up to the Hmong expectations either.
There’s also a question of a long brewing Hmong guerilla war. As we learned from Da Torpedo’s case that’s where HRW stops – advocating violence. It is possible that some of the repatriated Hmongs have been engaged in that war. MSF chose to call it “realizing dreams”, HRW avoided mentioning it explicitly, but I can’t hold it against Lao government if they want justice to be served in one way or another.
This is an issue that I have been thinking about for the past few years. But the ‘culture’ I’ve been looking is ‘cyberculture’ or internet culture’ rather than ethnic culture that seems to be presupposed in the call. If the presupposition is correct then this is a very conservative proposal since it tends to ‘idolizes’ these indigenous groups (I have nothing against them, only kind of doubt whether they are really “indigenous” any more, he he) and thus assumes that culture is a monolithic entity incapable of change.
The call can be something that can be politically subversive, but none of that will issue from these people at the Anthropology Center. They just look for something that confirms what is already there in their minds — ethnic cultures need to be “protected” and guess who is doing the protecting?
Thanks Bkk Lawyer. A colleague also pointed out that New Year is a good time for this repatriation because so many governments and human rights organisations are on holiday, so the negative reaction will be limited.
Somsak is, I think, right regarding the re-elevation and I see this as a preparation for succession. Just to be clear, the FCCT publication in its annex “The House of Chakkri”, lists Mom Sucharini and the boys as HSH. The youngest son of the current consort is HRH.
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Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
StanG @ #21: We can always count on you for false-dichotomy logic. You earlier doubted the concerns about Laos’s treatment of Hmong. Now you admit their life in Laos is “not peachy” but say the reports “fall short of declaring a huge human rights emergency”. So unless it’s a “huge human rights emergency” there’s no need for concern?
And as usual you cite The Nation as your source. You even question HRW’s concerns because they’re “contradictory” to The Nation. Have you not noticed that you are virtually the only person who cites The Nation except in jest?
Fair’s fair – Pasuk on Thailand in transition
Oo – Handley has told me “don’t say it’s not there” re. his mention of military factions, over 34 pages.
But in fact, I did not say it was “not there”, as so far as I’ve been able to briefly find post-New Year.
Is this a case of Handley doing what that pompous blatherer Kramden does – i.e. putting words into my mouth, which I have not said, inorder to attack me ?
It’s an age-old pathetic political tactic called the Straw Man syndrome.
I have argued Handley does not give enough weight, or detail about, the May ’92 military factions.
But I certainly never meant to argue he gives no mention of them. If someone can point out to me WHERE I have done this, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Bangkok Post on the crown prince
Somsak – the Crown Prince’s letter above strikes me as eminently sensible, reasonable, and decent.
A far cry from that characteur of malicious rumour-mongering, so beloved by Handley and Kramden.
Ditto any reconciliation with his children. Thailand could do with a lot more reconciliation, all round.
So why are some trying to cast HRH in a bad light ?
Jockeying for position, post- Bumiphol ?
Why not follow this example of family reconciliation ?
New year wishes from …
Susie Wong : a referendum extremely unlikely, I’d guess.
There would probably have to be a referendum on whether to have a referendum, on such a question !!
And from memory, Thailand has only ever had one referendum.
Bangkok Post on the crown prince
Happy New Year everybody! Some might find this link irrelevant but I don’t. Please see http://www.mfa.go.th/web/1381.php?depcode=22400100&depid=211
Cheers!!
“Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppression of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day” (Thomas Jefferson).
2009 Malaysian of the Year
The Malaysian Insider named The MACC the “Malaysian of the year” for its infamy.
Malaysia, the year that was!
The BN Govt is not using democratic institution to persecute the PR politicians and state govts. There is no such thing as a democratic institution in malaysia. The sooner the writer and other intellectuals recognise this the better.
The Govt institutions like Police, Macc (anti coruption agency) etc is simply seen as a part of the BN (barison national or mostly UMNO). Their behaviour especially after the march 8 GE bears out this believe.
Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
We should bring them here in Australia since australian people and government here are so nice, just like what they did to Sri lankan asylum seeker. so hypocrite…
all talk, no action
Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
StanG: you confuse me with someone else. You latest post seems to me to be too long. Just say that the two governments involved have your support. No need to justify that with hazy historical references as it is a clear position.
Malaysia, the year that was!
Forecasting Malaysia’s future by Dr. Lim Teck Ghee.
2009 Malaysian of the Year
An update.
The Malaysian Anti Corruption Commission has lodged a report against Suara Keadilan (the newspaper of Keadilan/People’s Justice Party – http://en.suarakeadilan.com/ ) and Dr. Pornthip, the Thai forensic expert – accusing them of making statements that Teoh Beng Hock’s death was homicide. Read here.
Malaysia, the year that was!
New Mandala had carried a related story earlier in the year.
The socialists are back
A little bit of socialist history in Malaysia. I found this article in Parti Sosialis Malaysia website. It is a tribute to one of the key members in the Malaysian ‘left’.
I wonder why people still think Malaysia is a functioning democracy after reading time and time again, how the ruling party, with British assistance destroyed various legitimate views on how a country should be managed.
Tribute to Dr. Rajakumar.
Crimes against the state: a long lost manuscript
I would like to ask Mr. Gillmeister about his identification of Edward Breck as F.F. van de Water. I am research the use of pseudonyms by writers on Field Sport (which would include Edward Breck), even when those pseudonyms were used for non-sporting subjects. Breck certainly was an interesting man, and the identification of him as the author of “Der Bunte Hund” seems plausible. You include in your article “F.F. van de Water alias Edward Breck”, writing the poem beginning with “The steel jaws clamped and held him fast…”. Are you certain that the poem was written by Edward Breck, and not by Frederic Franklin van de Water (1890-1968), another writer who was also a member of the Anti-Seeel Trap League, who was at one time the vice president of the League? Any information on this matter would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely yours, Ken Callahan, PO Box 505, Peterborough, New Hampshire, 03458 USA, [email protected]
New year wishes from …
It seems to me that majority of Thais and neighboring countries have preference for Sirinthorn than her brother Vachiralongkorn. As such, I wonder if there could be a referendum on this issue.
I do think the character and values of leaders matter. It shapes the direction of the country toward progress and hope or backward and more turmoils. The monarchy has been a major political player in Thailand, succession should then be a matter essential for public discussion.
Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
Ralph, thanks for HRW quote. My first impression is that it appears to be contradictory to the account published in The Nation. The truth might lie somewhere in between, or they both might be wildly inaccurate as both versions come from sides that want to find some fault with Lao government to justify their long held positions.
There’s no doubt that life of Hmong in Laos is not peachy but there’s a long way from there to being political refugees from a war that ended 35 years ago. There are over two hundred thousand Hmong who didn’t run, and there are almost four thousand Hmong who were repatriated from Thailand already(the current ones are just the last batch).
There were reports that Hmong who were sent off earlier were targets of government persecution, and that forms the basis of HRW concerns, but those reports still fall short of declaring a huge human rights emergency in Laos, and the last batch appears to get a better deal from Lao government anyway, and that is what it actually boils down to – getting a better treatment in Laos, as it became patiently clear that these people were not going anywhere else.
What is also clear is that Thailand didn’t live up to HRW and “international” standards and sent Hmong back against its earlier commitments towards those standards. It is also clear that the countries who were supposed to take those Hmongs in didn’t live up to the Hmong expectations either.
There’s also a question of a long brewing Hmong guerilla war. As we learned from Da Torpedo’s case that’s where HRW stops – advocating violence. It is possible that some of the repatriated Hmongs have been engaged in that war. MSF chose to call it “realizing dreams”, HRW avoided mentioning it explicitly, but I can’t hold it against Lao government if they want justice to be served in one way or another.
Culture and rights in Thailand
This is an issue that I have been thinking about for the past few years. But the ‘culture’ I’ve been looking is ‘cyberculture’ or internet culture’ rather than ethnic culture that seems to be presupposed in the call. If the presupposition is correct then this is a very conservative proposal since it tends to ‘idolizes’ these indigenous groups (I have nothing against them, only kind of doubt whether they are really “indigenous” any more, he he) and thus assumes that culture is a monolithic entity incapable of change.
The call can be something that can be politically subversive, but none of that will issue from these people at the Anthropology Center. They just look for something that confirms what is already there in their minds — ethnic cultures need to be “protected” and guess who is doing the protecting?
Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
Thanks Bkk Lawyer. A colleague also pointed out that New Year is a good time for this repatriation because so many governments and human rights organisations are on holiday, so the negative reaction will be limited.
Bangkok Post on the crown prince
Somsak is, I think, right regarding the re-elevation and I see this as a preparation for succession. Just to be clear, the FCCT publication in its annex “The House of Chakkri”, lists Mom Sucharini and the boys as HSH. The youngest son of the current consort is HRH.
A bird’s eye view of Naypyidaw and other places
could you share the source of this site, pls.?
“Strategic Mountain Road for XM142 High Mobility Artilery Rocket System (1800 Ft Height)”