Chris Beale #7 : “There does seem to be some genuine efforts at reconciliation currently – eg. Thaksin called off a month of demonstrations, Abhisit responded called off his Chiang Mai trip.” Is this a joke?
Now waiting for the blockage of the ECT building by the PAD, and, of course, the blockage of Government House and Suvarnaphumi Airports. This two-year sentence will have to be translated into 193 days of blockage for the PAD leaders…
6 protest leaders jailed for besieging Nation Group in 2006
The South Bangkok Criminal Court Monday jailed six leaders of the Assembly of the Poor and Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship for leading some 1,300 protesters to besiege the head office of the Nation Multimedia Group in 2006.
The court found the six guilty of using force to assault and force other to comply to their wish.
The six are Khamta Kaenboonchan, Attharit Singlor, Chupong Thithuan, Thanawit Palakawong, Shinawat Haboon, and Samrerng Adisa.
The court initially sentenced them to three years imprisonment and a fine of Bt180.
But the court commuted the jail term to 2 years on ground that they gave testimony deemed useful for the trial.
I think the leader characteristics as well as the State structure are important factors to the modernization process. I see Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen as a modern man, he stands up to his principle and national interests. So does the Indonesian President Yudhoyono. They are moving their countries forward and people respect them.
The opposite example would be Aphisit who majority of Thais did not choose. As a result, Aphisit has to wear bullet proof shirt, uses bullet proof car, cannot visit Thailand’s countryside. With Aphisit, Thailand is in political chaos across the land, military tension with neighboring country, economy in decline, crime rates increase, Southern insurgent problem worsen.
With this contrasting example, I am sure Malaysia as well as other Southeast Asian countries see the important of legitimacy, promoting more genuine and competitive elections and political processes. In developed countries, politically active civil society is encouraged. It is not possible to just have economic growth without strengthening the Rule of Law, respect of human rights, and active civil society. In the age of interdependence economy, the economic structure of Southeast Asian countries needs political reform for a more transparent and accountable governance.
It’s time Southeast Asian countries leave cronyism, network monarchy, patron client tie, corruption, etc. as things of the past.
Somsak, the “wrong” impression I was referring to is that of the red movement overall, and it’s not only the Nation that allegedly distorts their image. And it’s always the same advice: “Read some more, learn some more, you will sure change your opinion.”
Nick, if you had seen Jatuporn and Nattawut doing a likae performance with swords and stuff, would you find it worth reporting? If you’d leave it out – why? In your first reply you labeled the mere suggestion as “insinuation”, now you seem to say you don’t find it interesting enough.
I’ve never challenged your assessment of that concert mood, btw.
Yes – Dr. J – I’ve certainly seen many Muay Thai (can anyone not ?).
What has always impressed me most has been Muay Thai fighters respect for the referee :
that seems a very Thai cultural trait, extending right up to the Monarchy.
I will always argue Thailand needs a strong Monarchy, and Military – as ultimate political referees.
There does seem to be some genuine efforts at reconciliation
currently – eg. Thaksin called off a month of demonstrations,
Abhisit responded called off his Chiang Mai trip.
I wonder what the court verdict will be re. Thaksin’s 73+ billion baht assets – perhaps they should give a suspended sentence. I.e. a good behaviour bond – rather than confiscate the lot, which would give Thaksin no incentive to stop de-stabilising Thailand.
At the moment Thaksin is able to send eg. the PAD into paroxysyms of paranoid rage, by Thaksin’s chapest means possible – i.e. simply flying into Cambodia.
“if they have created “wrong” impression it’s not my fault. ”
Actually, I think it is.
In this case it’s your fault to simply believe what The Nation say without reasonable judgment of your own. Or in your case, perhaps you’d believe that anyway without the help of The Nation. But it’s still your fault nonetheless. Because the wrong impression is NOT ‘created’ by the performers, but by the ‘reporters’ and yourself, the on-looker.
Suppose I stage a skit to protest the hanging of some activists and you look at its photo and say I was hanging effigy of the Crown Prince, even though there’s noting whatsoever to indicate that’s the case, would that be your fault? ABSOLUTELY. If you look at the Like-like performance (with “swards” and singing!) and say “this is war-mongering!”, would that be your fault? ABSOLUTELY. A person’s stupidity is that person’s own fault.
Sorry, but i don’t do “far more interesting” – i do fair and realistic reporting from the ground perspective.
If you don’t like the fact that the concert was a feel good event with very little politics, than please complain to the Red Shirt leadership. Tell them that they should put up a more aggressive face the next time, so you can have your preconceived stereotypes confirmed.
I am the wrong address for your gripes.
That should hopefully conclude this discussion. Thank you.
Thank you for disseminating findings and providing an excellent information from which to build a better understanding of Southeast Asia politics. As I attempt to analyze contemporary Southeast Asia politics I find it more difficult than analyzing any developed country politics. I would like to share a few foundational questions.
1. Is mega-corruption uniquely Southeast Asian phenomenon?
Except Singapore, it seems everyone else faces the same challenges of having leaders with extraordinary wealth: Mahathir, Suharto, Marcos, Phumipon.
2. Is the imbalance of power between leader and civil society the cause of that phenomenon?
3. Why have the U. S. and the U. K. been ignoring of this problem when change and reform are necessary in the age of information technology and globalization?
4. The Philippines has managed to solve the problem by putting term limit for its presidency. Indonesia chooses direct election and term limit as the solution. How could Thailand be able to get out of this serious problem given network monarchy has been in power for over 60 years? Can Malaysian opposition party get a fair chance?
Photos of Jatuporn, Nattawut and Veera carrying swords and, perhaps, even doing some war dance, would have been far more interesting than some dudes holding microphones.
Pardon me for asking why they were missing from Nick’s report. I can think of two reasons – he simply missed this part, or he decided to exclude them intentionally. He says he didn’t see it, that’s all. Pity, but that’s life.
Reds have been in the public light for a couple of years now, if they have created “wrong” impression it’s not my fault. If they want to correct it, it’s not my job either. If people expect me to dedicate more time and effort to learning the context and the details – get in line, there’s a long list of misunderstood cults that got into similar situation first.
I saw StanG’s first comment a few days back and thought that Nick’s response would be the end of the matter. To my surprise, it isn’t.
Khun StanG,
anyone who could write, as you did, that
“Nation described them as “ancient war costumes”, and that’s exactly what they look like, and all three of them were clutching swords”
… means that that person knows absolutely nothing about everyday way of life here.
I strongly suggest you watch some “Li-ke” – a traditional form of Thai musical plays, in which most of the actors wore “ancient war costumes” and “clutching swords” most of the time. That’s how normal, ordinary Thai people think when they see people in “ancient war costumes”, “clutching swards” and singing songs, all at the same time, in other words, they would think of “Li-ke”, NOT of the actual war!
Of course, The Nation people aren’t really just “normal, ordinary Thai people”, they’re a bunch of political activists, dressed up as “journalists” who’re always on the look out for any sign or opportunity whether real or imaginary, that would allow them to write anti-Thaksin, anti-Red Shirts ‘reports’.
“an interesting, yet rumour-based read.”
Dylan,
I agree with the latter but definitely not former. The inaccuracy has been pointed out by Hla Oo previously.
It is this kind of 1/2 truth that allow the useless approach by the west for “2 decades”.
The only major difference b/t this eposé and previous ones is 1/2 hearted admission that Than Shwe is not as dump as assumed.
Yet the emphasis on again “being boring” just show you how a none Burmese take on a character that has absolutely no bearing on what this repugnant being has been able to effect and still presently poised to have his way “all the way”.
“F” overall. Less than “F” for seriousness or truthfulness.
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Samak: Conflict to the end
(continuing the previous) Abhisit called off his trip because the invitation was withdrawn due to security fears.
Reconciliation? No way!
Samak: Conflict to the end
Chris Beale #7 : “There does seem to be some genuine efforts at reconciliation currently – eg. Thaksin called off a month of demonstrations, Abhisit responded called off his Chiang Mai trip.” Is this a joke?
The UDD (Redshirts) called off their demo either “in deference to the approach of His Majesty the King’s 82nd birthday on Dec 5.”, or due to the imposition of the Internal Security Act (take your pick).
See :
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/28156/abhisit-cancels-chiang-mai-trip
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/161543/security-agencies-consider-revoking-isa
Vang Pao aftermath on the upper Mekong
[…] […]
Saturday red, Sunday yellow: the temperature rises again
Now waiting for the blockage of the ECT building by the PAD, and, of course, the blockage of Government House and Suvarnaphumi Airports. This two-year sentence will have to be translated into 193 days of blockage for the PAD leaders…
6 protest leaders jailed for besieging Nation Group in 2006
The South Bangkok Criminal Court Monday jailed six leaders of the Assembly of the Poor and Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship for leading some 1,300 protesters to besiege the head office of the Nation Multimedia Group in 2006.
The court found the six guilty of using force to assault and force other to comply to their wish.
The six are Khamta Kaenboonchan, Attharit Singlor, Chupong Thithuan, Thanawit Palakawong, Shinawat Haboon, and Samrerng Adisa.
The court initially sentenced them to three years imprisonment and a fine of Bt180.
But the court commuted the jail term to 2 years on ground that they gave testimony deemed useful for the trial.
The Nation 30 Nov. 2009
Mahathir squandered RM100 billion says new book
I think the leader characteristics as well as the State structure are important factors to the modernization process. I see Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen as a modern man, he stands up to his principle and national interests. So does the Indonesian President Yudhoyono. They are moving their countries forward and people respect them.
The opposite example would be Aphisit who majority of Thais did not choose. As a result, Aphisit has to wear bullet proof shirt, uses bullet proof car, cannot visit Thailand’s countryside. With Aphisit, Thailand is in political chaos across the land, military tension with neighboring country, economy in decline, crime rates increase, Southern insurgent problem worsen.
With this contrasting example, I am sure Malaysia as well as other Southeast Asian countries see the important of legitimacy, promoting more genuine and competitive elections and political processes. In developed countries, politically active civil society is encouraged. It is not possible to just have economic growth without strengthening the Rule of Law, respect of human rights, and active civil society. In the age of interdependence economy, the economic structure of Southeast Asian countries needs political reform for a more transparent and accountable governance.
It’s time Southeast Asian countries leave cronyism, network monarchy, patron client tie, corruption, etc. as things of the past.
Saturday red, Sunday yellow: the temperature rises again
Somsak, the “wrong” impression I was referring to is that of the red movement overall, and it’s not only the Nation that allegedly distorts their image. And it’s always the same advice: “Read some more, learn some more, you will sure change your opinion.”
Nick, if you had seen Jatuporn and Nattawut doing a likae performance with swords and stuff, would you find it worth reporting? If you’d leave it out – why? In your first reply you labeled the mere suggestion as “insinuation”, now you seem to say you don’t find it interesting enough.
I’ve never challenged your assessment of that concert mood, btw.
Samak: Conflict to the end
[…] rite, the anti-government Red Shirts (most of them were Samak supporters) outside the temple booed government officials who attended the […]
Samak: Conflict to the end
[…] rite, the anti-government Red Shirts (most of them were Samak supporters) outside the temple booed government officials who attended the […]
Samak: Conflict to the end
Great work Nik,
You are an inspiration to those reporters who want to report the truth but are not allowed to.
Well done and great Pics.
Brendan Mahoney.
Mahathir squandered RM100 billion says new book
Hmmmm….vested interests at heart and not exactly the gentleman he portrayed to the public.
Deja vu…
Samak: Conflict to the end
Yes – Dr. J – I’ve certainly seen many Muay Thai (can anyone not ?).
What has always impressed me most has been Muay Thai fighters respect for the referee :
that seems a very Thai cultural trait, extending right up to the Monarchy.
I will always argue Thailand needs a strong Monarchy, and Military – as ultimate political referees.
There does seem to be some genuine efforts at reconciliation
currently – eg. Thaksin called off a month of demonstrations,
Abhisit responded called off his Chiang Mai trip.
I wonder what the court verdict will be re. Thaksin’s 73+ billion baht assets – perhaps they should give a suspended sentence. I.e. a good behaviour bond – rather than confiscate the lot, which would give Thaksin no incentive to stop de-stabilising Thailand.
At the moment Thaksin is able to send eg. the PAD into paroxysyms of paranoid rage, by Thaksin’s chapest means possible – i.e. simply flying into Cambodia.
Saturday red, Sunday yellow: the temperature rises again
“if they have created “wrong” impression it’s not my fault. ”
Actually, I think it is.
In this case it’s your fault to simply believe what The Nation say without reasonable judgment of your own. Or in your case, perhaps you’d believe that anyway without the help of The Nation. But it’s still your fault nonetheless. Because the wrong impression is NOT ‘created’ by the performers, but by the ‘reporters’ and yourself, the on-looker.
Suppose I stage a skit to protest the hanging of some activists and you look at its photo and say I was hanging effigy of the Crown Prince, even though there’s noting whatsoever to indicate that’s the case, would that be your fault? ABSOLUTELY. If you look at the Like-like performance (with “swards” and singing!) and say “this is war-mongering!”, would that be your fault? ABSOLUTELY. A person’s stupidity is that person’s own fault.
Saturday red, Sunday yellow: the temperature rises again
“StanG”:
Sorry, but i don’t do “far more interesting” – i do fair and realistic reporting from the ground perspective.
If you don’t like the fact that the concert was a feel good event with very little politics, than please complain to the Red Shirt leadership. Tell them that they should put up a more aggressive face the next time, so you can have your preconceived stereotypes confirmed.
I am the wrong address for your gripes.
That should hopefully conclude this discussion. Thank you.
Saturday red, Sunday yellow: the temperature rises again
StanG: Your best comment yet!
“If people expect me to dedicate more time and effort to learning the context and the details – get in line”
Saturday red, Sunday yellow: the temperature rises again
Since when is the obstinate celebration of ignorance a culturally valued undertaking?
Mahathir squandered RM100 billion says new book
Thank you for disseminating findings and providing an excellent information from which to build a better understanding of Southeast Asia politics. As I attempt to analyze contemporary Southeast Asia politics I find it more difficult than analyzing any developed country politics. I would like to share a few foundational questions.
1. Is mega-corruption uniquely Southeast Asian phenomenon?
Except Singapore, it seems everyone else faces the same challenges of having leaders with extraordinary wealth: Mahathir, Suharto, Marcos, Phumipon.
2. Is the imbalance of power between leader and civil society the cause of that phenomenon?
3. Why have the U. S. and the U. K. been ignoring of this problem when change and reform are necessary in the age of information technology and globalization?
4. The Philippines has managed to solve the problem by putting term limit for its presidency. Indonesia chooses direct election and term limit as the solution. How could Thailand be able to get out of this serious problem given network monarchy has been in power for over 60 years? Can Malaysian opposition party get a fair chance?
Saturday red, Sunday yellow: the temperature rises again
Photos of Jatuporn, Nattawut and Veera carrying swords and, perhaps, even doing some war dance, would have been far more interesting than some dudes holding microphones.
Pardon me for asking why they were missing from Nick’s report. I can think of two reasons – he simply missed this part, or he decided to exclude them intentionally. He says he didn’t see it, that’s all. Pity, but that’s life.
Reds have been in the public light for a couple of years now, if they have created “wrong” impression it’s not my fault. If they want to correct it, it’s not my job either. If people expect me to dedicate more time and effort to learning the context and the details – get in line, there’s a long list of misunderstood cults that got into similar situation first.
Saturday red, Sunday yellow: the temperature rises again
I saw StanG’s first comment a few days back and thought that Nick’s response would be the end of the matter. To my surprise, it isn’t.
Khun StanG,
anyone who could write, as you did, that
“Nation described them as “ancient war costumes”, and that’s exactly what they look like, and all three of them were clutching swords”
… means that that person knows absolutely nothing about everyday way of life here.
I strongly suggest you watch some “Li-ke” – a traditional form of Thai musical plays, in which most of the actors wore “ancient war costumes” and “clutching swords” most of the time. That’s how normal, ordinary Thai people think when they see people in “ancient war costumes”, “clutching swards” and singing songs, all at the same time, in other words, they would think of “Li-ke”, NOT of the actual war!
Of course, The Nation people aren’t really just “normal, ordinary Thai people”, they’re a bunch of political activists, dressed up as “journalists” who’re always on the look out for any sign or opportunity whether real or imaginary, that would allow them to write anti-Thaksin, anti-Red Shirts ‘reports’.
Benedict Rogers on Than Shwe
“an interesting, yet rumour-based read.”
Dylan,
I agree with the latter but definitely not former. The inaccuracy has been pointed out by Hla Oo previously.
It is this kind of 1/2 truth that allow the useless approach by the west for “2 decades”.
The only major difference b/t this eposé and previous ones is 1/2 hearted admission that Than Shwe is not as dump as assumed.
Yet the emphasis on again “being boring” just show you how a none Burmese take on a character that has absolutely no bearing on what this repugnant being has been able to effect and still presently poised to have his way “all the way”.
“F” overall. Less than “F” for seriousness or truthfulness.
Saturday red, Sunday yellow: the temperature rises again
That was the point StanG. If you were more aware of the context of historical drama, perhaps you’d be less likely to jump to conclusions. Perhaps not.