Comments

  1. […] article was first published here, in New […]

  2. Huw Slater says:

    Hi Gollum (hoping it’s Gollum and not Smeagol!)

    I agree, it is interesting that Australian negotiators are now prepared to lead in areas like REDD, yet we are still seen as dragging our feet as far as targets etc. are concerned.
    I guess at least we are in the ball game now. Better than two years ago!

  3. Susie Wong says:

    The problem with Hillary Clinton, Condi Rice, and Albright, is that they do not have much understanding of Asian culture and the post-Cold War strategic landscape, so they see Aung San Suu Kyi issue as helping another woman from male chauvinism, something like woman to woman. They also are unable to distinguish the impact of economic ideology to political choice. I mean if the U.S. uses a threat of economic sanction or financial incentive toward Thailand, that foreign policy instrument would work immediately. The same instrument would be ineffective in Myanmar because Burmese elites have different economic and political values and worldviews from the Thai elites. I don’t think we can apply one standard cookie cutter of rational choice without taking context, values and perception of the other side into consideration. Myanmar cannot yield to the demand of the U.S. because the issue involves Myanmar security. In other words, Hillary Clinton analyzes Myanmar from individual and national level of analysis while Myanmar considers Aung San Suu Kyi at the international level of analysis with national security concern. Hillary Clinton made a wrong calculation. She didn’t have genuine intention for an engagement beyond rhetoric.

  4. david w says:

    Currently I have seen for books by Wassana in Thai bookstores. Matichon has “Lap Luang Prang Phak Phitsadan” and “Lap Luang Prang Phak 2”. And Post has two volumes: “Lap Luang Prang Phak Phitsadan” and “Lap Luang Prang Chabab Mahakap”. Couldn’t tell if the Matichon and Post books of the same name are the same books, as no bookstore had both at the same time to compare the table of contents, and I failed to jot down some chapter titles for comparison. Any chance there will be book reviews of these other volumes, sometime in the future.

    I’m not convinced that anthropologists (or social scientists in general) would be surprised to find elites using “magic”, as it is a general purpose cosmological order producing charter and performative praxis for individuals all along the class spectrum, and this is well documented in the academic literature. It would be interesting though, empirically however, to examine to just what degree the idioms, frames, semantics, grammar and lexicon of “saiysasat” differs among different groups, classes, practitioners, etc.

    No doubt the current moment of uncertainty raises the appeal of “saiysasat”, but measuring that appeal comparatively would be very difficult, i suspect, except in a very general sense. But one could gather interesting qualitative data by talking to practitioners of it about where preferences for certain types of ritual practices or ends have altered over the short or medium term, I suppose.

  5. Hi Gollum… or Smeagol,

    Once upon a time, New Mandala generated a fair bit of interest in the question of “avoided deforestation” in Burma. That was back in 2006 when the REDD agenda was, I suppose, just starting to pick up speed. It started here, and then flowed on here, here, and here.

    It strikes me that this remains a particularly important topic, and one that may help us to step outside the standard debating arena when it comes to Burma policy. New ideas from readers are, as always, very welcome.

    Best wishes to all,

    Nich

  6. Gollum... or Smeagol says:

    Thanks for an illuminating post Huw. I wonder how REDD credits would be distributed in Myanmar? Token hope!

    Also interesting that Australia took a proactive role in a ‘REDD+’ initiative while being derrided as part of the Umbrella Group of fossil fuel dependent economies. Would Australia’s significant contribution to global climate change mitigation be through contributions to a REDD scheme?

  7. Nick Nostitz says:

    “Iker Izquierdo”:

    Thanks a lot.

    Please send an email to Nich or Andrew, who will forward then your email to me, and that way we can talk them about about this directly.

  8. Craig Reynolds says:

    An alert reader brought to my notice Banharn’s real birth date, 20 July, versus the ‘official’ date of 19 August given in Wassana’s book. The list of August birth dates was too good to be true, wasn’t it? Details about when and why Banharn conjured up the 19 August date would be interesting to know.

    I cannot comment on Wassana’s prose except to point out that the book I read was in its third printing, and her other books on the 2006 coup and military intrigue mentioned by Somsak have sold well, so she must be doing something right for Thai readers. I recently acquired another book on magic practices among the political elite by ‘Mor Noi’ that looks suspiciously like a rip-off of Wassana’s book, a sure sign that her approach has captured the attention of readers interested in these matters.

    As Justin points out, ‘magic’ is an inadequate translation of saiysasat and various other Thai traditions that have parallels with so-called normative Thai Buddhist practices. Actually, I thought Wassana’s discussion showed that Thai Buddhism and these other traditions were interdependent, and she resisted bringing in the more sinister type of magic. The astrologers often advise their clients to improve their store of merit with sometimes extravagant Buddhist merit-making rituals, sometimes to ‘reverse’ karma, or kae kam. This latter term appears to be a very recent coinage – I don’t think it is possible to ‘reverse’ karma – and indicates how Thai Buddhism might be changing.

    People who have specialised knowledge of these practices are valuable political assets. Wassana discusses the role of Newin Chidchob, who comes from Buriram, speaks Khmer, and famously switched sides to put the Democrats in power in late 2008. Newin has knowledge of Khmer magic (saiysasat), which is very strong stuff, and the journalists dubbed him ‘the Khmer shaman’, or ‘the Khmer spirit doctor’ (mor phi khamen). He had advised Thaksin on ritual practices that were perceived to be an attempt to extend his term as prime minister. In the September 2006 coup Newin was detained by the army and held in an air force safe house. After his release he told how he had been searched, very thoroughly. His military captors wanted to be certain he did not have any powerful amulets, tattoos, or magic diagrams on his person. In the 2008 occupation of government house Sonthi brought in a Cambodian astrologer to perform a rite on the Brahma image and spirit shrine there, which desecrated the premises. The demonising of Cambodia being pursued by the PAD has a strong spiritual undercurrent, another reason to think that Thaksin did not help his cause when he recently became an adviser to the Cambodian government.

    Finally, it occurs to me to wonder if some of this ritual activity, interest in the occult, and the prevalence of belief in reincarnation of specific historical types, which also seems very recent, might be traced to this particular historical conjuncture marked by the longest Thai reign in history. It is a very worrying time for Thai people.

  9. John Hawkins says:

    Thaksin never intended to implement real political reform of any kind. His early years as a police office and junior minister taught him well enough that cronyism and the patronage system, so firmly embedded in Thai politics and society at large, was all he needed to achieve his self-serving interests, and establish himself as the new ‘Phu Yai’ of his and future generations.

    I honestly think that any of the Thai voting public is just simply too naive to think that any Thai politician has their real interests at heart.

    There is always another agenda at stake here, the one that services numerous domestic and off shore bank accounts, I imagine.

  10. michael says:

    Nobody #16: ” Nobody is forcing anyone to take sides. It is a perfectly reasonable position to condemn both.”

    I don’t support either side, but recent observations lead me to believe that it’s a bit of a mistake to take the position of condemning both, at this stage. I think a lot of former Yellow supporters are disenchanted with their leadership’s violent rhetoric (as seen on Sunday), and a lot of Reds are not pro-Thaksin, and they’re absolutely not anti-HMK.

    As one of my friends, who came out as Red-but-anti-Thaksin recently said, ” the only way to get democracy going is to DO it. Stop the fighting & the rhetoric, stop expecting to be given it, drop Thaksin, & just do it.”

  11. Frank Lee says:

    After his blatant lies about Thaksin’s love of democracy, one place I’m sure Mr. Jakraphob would feel right at home would be on Fox News – although I doubt he could teach them anything new about selling snake oil.

    Speaking of which, most Bangkok people I know are moderates who have lost any sympathy they may have had for extremists – whether they be yellow or red – because they are both seen as cynical opportunists representing different sides of the same elitist coin.

    Why would they be willing to tolerate Thaksin Inc. a second time when, not only did he blow a historic opportunity to begin fundamental reforms and instead institute a rather virulent strain of “ugly crony capitalism” which included a brazen and sustained attempt to monopolize state power by any and all means , but he appears to have not learned a thing. The again, people who insist on doing all the talking and never listen to others never do. As for political reconciliation, that would have to start with saying sorry.

    Alas, pigs might fly and dogs may stare at airplanes high in the sky.

    Frank Lee / Bangers

  12. Iker Izquierdo says:

    Hi Nick,

    this Iker Izquierdo, spanish historian. I came to Thailand for a couple of weeks and bought your book “Red vs. Yellow”. Congratulations you made a great job. Photographs are outstanding and the text is compelling, just cannot put it down. I’m trying to set up an online magazine in spanish about southeast and east asian affairs. One of the first works is a long article about Thailand’s last three years. Your book is of great value. I was wondering if we can have your permission to reproduce some of your photos.

    Thanks for your passion and dilligence in giving us these fantastic reports.

    Kind Regards,

    Iker Izquierdo.

  13. That kind of cooling off period will not happen. “Oh” will take over. How that plays is another issue.

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  15. Chris Beale says:

    It seems to me Thailand needs a “cooling off” period.
    Something like the former great US Senator Daniel Moynihan called for “benign neglect” after the riots which split America during the late 1960’s.
    The best way to achieve this would be through a Regency government, under Her Majesty The Queen – when the unfortunate day comes that His Majesty is no longer with us.

  16. John Hawkins says:

    I’ve only just seen this page, so my apologies for my belated comments.

    The only surprise for me is the surprise that some have expressed on here regarding Mr. Penkair’s ‘revelations’.

    The network of patronage that enables the country to be ‘managed’ by a second, more powerful, state is hardly invinsible, or operating behind the scenes as some would suggest. The arrogant impunity with which it operates is evident at all levels within the public arena.

    My connections with a diverse group of Thai professionals have, for me at least, revealed some interesting disclosures. The local rural amphurs that fraudulently claim debt relief intended for non existent poor farmers, local kamnans whose children are awarded education scholarships, despite their less than average abilties and local bank branch managers who are willing to give loans in return for under the table payments.

    Of course, in these cases, the very public result of clandestine wheelings and dealing is there for all to see, but not to comment on, at least in public.

    Anecdotal and unsubstantiated as they may appear, these sad stories seem real enough to me, reported as they were by people with a genuine concern for the people they work for. And I don’t mean their bosses.

    Elsewhere on here, some have commented on the ‘generally low standard of public morality’ in Thailand. I would also suggest that for many, a sense of personal morality and public responsibilty is pushed aside by fear. The fear of being left behind and disadvantaged if one does not play the same game, or the fear of being beaten or killed if one protests against the unfairness of the system.

    The network of patronage does start from the top and has spread its all pervasive tentacles throughout the many layers of Thai society.
    And it is never going to go away. There is simply too much at stake for some people to lose.

  17. Better dead than either Yellow & Red says:

    Until not very long ago, Jakraphob was part of the state-within-a-state himself, as part of the PM’s overly-obsequious PR apparatus. But just as governments have oppositions, so Thailand has, at any given time, an opposition state-within-a-state. And Jakrapob demonstrates by the shovelful he is in the fold by his bold political pronouncements. And his threats. In other words a very silly person who feels big just because he has the backing of some criminally-minded soldiers and policemen with guns. This is just the sort of cheap loud-mouthed do-nothing politician that this country breeds best. But to the rest of us mere mortals, who continually have to clean the mess of these spoilt-rich political brats, he has absolutely no use whatsoever. Just another parasite on the make!

  18. Greg Lopez says:

    Hi Chris,

    In fact, domestic problems are Malaysia’s biggest pre-occupation followed of course by regional issues such as terrorism, Southern Thailand, Indonesia – Malaysia relations, illegal immigrants in Sabah, Moro Liberation Front in Southern Philippines.

    Frankly, Southeast Asia is a tinderbox – ASEAN can be credited for keeping this problems within borders – but the problems are increasingly becoming transnational.

    Hence Malaysia welcomes support from Australia but it will try to keep the big powers (US, China, India, etc) out.

  19. Greg Lopez says:

    Good day Susie,

    Foreign policy is always a critical factor in determining who gets elected. We know the U.S. ability to depose democratically elected governments or install dubious leaders as long as they “support” U.S. views.

    In Malaysia, despite the anti-Western rhetoric that come from the ruling party – best exemplified by Mahathir – Malaysia had always tacitly been a supporter of the U.S. Most developing countries do not have an option but to support the U.S. To Malaysia’s credit – it has managed to maintain a semblance of neutrality. The current opposition leader, Anwar Ibrahim, in fact is much loved by the West for his “more liberal” stance than the current ruling elite.

    Therefore, Anwar Ibrahim has all the credential to be Malaysia’s new leader – if only Malaysia was as democratic as Japan or Australia.

    A more detailed account of Malaysia’s foreign policy is available here.

  20. In response to commenter Lleij above:

    Sorry for posting this late. But you can watch the video of the discussion with Duncan McCargo at the Asia Society, in its entirety, here. It was a really enlightening discussion, so I hope you can take the time to view it. Thanks!

    And thanks Andrew for posting about the webcast!