Ralph – sorry : I do not have the time, money, energy, or inclination to comment on this website, as often as you.
To the others – I was simply underlining the very deep divisions in “Thailand”, which was named such by the pro-Japanese fascist Phibun, but probably should be re-named “Siam”, in the more democratic spirit of Chulalongkorn. It seems to me there is a huge gap between Sino-Thai Bangkok, the South, Central Plains compared to Lao-speaking Isaarn, and Chiang Mai Lanna.
Given what has happened in eastern Europe it is quite possible “Thailand” could break-up in an eastern European-style civil war, or wars. I pray it does n’t happen. The cost to ordinary Thais, Isaarn, Lao, etc. would be horrific. Ditto the wider regional de-stabilisation. This gap needs to be addressed.
More than anything else, I thank King Bumiphol for giving Thailand/ Siam stability – throughout His Reign. Pure genius, given all those jockeying for position.
Without this stability we would all be far, far worse off.
I am really getting sick and tired of the endless bashing of the Crown Prince on this site, and some other places.
Give His Royal Highness a break – He is doing his best.
And may even have brokered a deal between Thaksin and the powers-that-be.
Please be fair – not bigoted – on this web-site.
based on the uncivility of the US, and its subject “western allies” I guess none of us can blame China for supplying Burma with nuclear technology
an interesting question is whether China does maintain a more solid philosophic and perhaps civilised base for its actions than the US
and possibly might have effective ways of controlling the application of technology that it distributes…
I guess the US, if it wishes to maintain control of weapons technology it enlists its network of “intelligence” agencies and threatens governments if they misbehave
China might have a broader based capability through the population of people in its customer countries that have loyalties back to the “mother” country?
the hypocrisy of the US, particularly during the years of Regan and the Bushes, in their attitude to the UN generally and the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaties substantially weakened the ability of the West to lead the world away from the insanity of nuclear weapons.
Simply put, the world now understands their are no grounds for trust in the West. All decisions must be “pragmatic”, based purely on power relations. There is no room for believing any underlying civilising factor at work.
Very sad for the world. This approach by the US has left us struggling with the Middle East disaster zone, Israel nuclear armed apartheid state, Iraq and Iran struggling to recover from US manipulation and direct and indirect colonisation (Shah, Saddam, Osama), Pakistan nuclear armed, proliferating and now dealing with the results of US manipulated politics.
It all started much earlier before the 2nd World War and US treatment of South America, but thats another story.
I just wish the redshirts would pull themselves away from Taksin! They have a reform agenda to which many can relate -the move away from the obligatory blind deference to an unaccountable minority to a fair and equitable society.
Perhaps a political movement must have some personification if it is to really succeed – a human face as it were – but this surely needs to be someone other than Taksin who is himself deeply flawed.
I don’t see how the red shirts can ever develop into a powerful agent for reform if they can’t move out from under the Taksin shadow.
The danger is they are now, what they will ever be -no real clout when and when it matters.
The increasing uncivility of western powers coupled with that the real energy crisis will prompt many country to seek nuclear energy followed by nuclear power. We are clearly entering a new age of nuclear proliferation. Now even its neigbor . Check out the report at Bangladesh has entered the nuclear bandwagon
I’d also like to remain upbeat, but from observing global political and social degradation for over four decades, it seems as if Thailand – lock, stock and barrel – is headed south in terms of democracy and opening up of civil and human rights protections where they matter: before the abuses occur.
Having recourse in the courts to violations is not sufficient. Protection has to involve prevention, and that is a process that Thais are not overly fond of adopting. Almost anything suffices both state and citizen as long as it involves talking it out and not getting too set on actually punishing someone for something they may have done – up to and including mass murder – but who then pretend to be sorry for it. Chalerm’s son, Chavalit and Muu Ham are only three obvious instances in this regard.
My pessimism originates from a growing readiness by Thais to accept ludicrous illusion after ludicrous illusion. When they don’t voluntarily accept it they are forced or brainwashed to. Is this any cause for optimism?
Yes, I’m with you Chris. The blatant boosting of Duncan McCargo’s very good book is a disgrace! Nothing more than an attempt to promote sensible discussion.
The most obvious thing that I understood from the entire survey was that even though 60% approximately have some respect for the army, the overwhelming support was for democracy.
If there is anything momentous that may come out of the last 5 years of political debauchery that has gone on in Thailand, it is finally that the army realises that possibly it cannot step to the forefront of Thai politics any more.
Many people look at Abhisit’s position and believe he is weak. In reality, the people he has most to fear from are the army, yet he is their “banker”.
They have to back him and if he uses this to his advantage, he may (and I say may) be able to re-unite the country.
To those apologists who seem to think the punishment was somehow justified/excusable on the grounds that one should not be free to insult others then why is it that that there are no comparable prison terms for those who insult myself, you, or anyone other member of the general public?
Think about it for a moment: Why should not the same remedies for slander or libel apply to all? And if there is a reason why there are such draconian lese majeste laws what exactly are they? What mischief are they designed to prevent? The laws apply even if the ‘offensive’ remarks are genuine expressions of the truth.
I would add that Abhisit’s silence on the these laws is a disgrace.
To finish on an optimistic note, I don’t believe the Thai people will stand for all this nonsense much longer. They are ever more educated, informed and savvy to the ways of the world. More and more are willing to stand up and speak out.
Does Chris Beale really think Thailand is approaching some tipping point? Can he be more specific? Why he, as a foreigner, is worried about it breaking up? Has he followed a recent East European history for example? And what extraordinary progress is he talking about? Has Thailand become more socially fair and economically progressive country in the last decades? I will be quite pleased to see some answers here, although I do hold my breath here…
Chris Beale: better late than never eh? Only a month late on this thread. So tell us, what and where is the brink? Tell us why unity matters. Tell us why any of us should take Young seriously (did you read other threads on this?). Tell us why the brak up of the country is the only alternative. And tell us why political contestation should be treated as abnormal.
It is rather common (unfortunately) that after a disaster quite a lot of projects are finished which have only limited value for the affected people. The Tsunami is another recent example, when all organisations (whether they have the competence or not) built houses. There are two main reasons why such a waste occurs:
1. From donation etc. a lot of funds are available that have to be spend in a limited time. Consequently one main task is to get rid of the money.
2. Success of a project funded mainly by donations is not at all connected to those who should make use of it, but in how far the donours look at it as money well spend. A Kindergarden with properly dressed kids, nice toys (see the Panda in another blog!), well build etc. fits the idea of a good project of the donours from the north atlantic region.
I once thought that one reason why most development projects are so useless has something to do with limited funds. Now I think, the more money is available, the more the projects are useless. This is one reason why I don’t think it is a good idea to increase global development spending. Unfortunately, currently a lot of money is available for (under)development projects. I guess in Thailand there are quite a few good examples of projects, whose prime objective is PR rather then facilitating “participatory sustianble development”. The only positive aspect is that in any case, close to 80% of the funds of a development project are spend for salaries (experts, consultants) and often more then 10% for the office. In other words, less then 10% reach the people and the local level.
I have been to the delta recently. I have seen kids working for their living, in tea shops, on the streets selling food, just to survive for the next meal. I have seen kids as young as 6 or 7 in shops cutting old motor car tyres being prepared to be made into other usable products, such as slippers; I have seen them sifting through murky, slimly and smelly drains with their tender bare hands, this is where they all are, no time for schooling.
Where are the teachers? Affordability may play a part. Perhaps a holistic plan of UNICEF should include good pay for teachers to attract some qualified teachers too. But the problems goes deeper and deeper. There is no administrative infrastructure to support the system at all, nor indeed any form of infrastructure anywhere. Education, communication, transport, all these systems have been eroded for so long, these “stand alone” projects are bound for abysmal failure.
Where are the parents? Out in the fields or on the roads finding a means to survive for the next meal as well.
The only infrastructure that seems to be working is the military apparatus, but only for themselves. There is a lot of money and power there but no brains to create a political will to lift the nation out of this hell hole. Hence a failed state.
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17 August 2009: petition day
Ralph – sorry : I do not have the time, money, energy, or inclination to comment on this website, as often as you.
To the others – I was simply underlining the very deep divisions in “Thailand”, which was named such by the pro-Japanese fascist Phibun, but probably should be re-named “Siam”, in the more democratic spirit of Chulalongkorn. It seems to me there is a huge gap between Sino-Thai Bangkok, the South, Central Plains compared to Lao-speaking Isaarn, and Chiang Mai Lanna.
Given what has happened in eastern Europe it is quite possible “Thailand” could break-up in an eastern European-style civil war, or wars. I pray it does n’t happen. The cost to ordinary Thais, Isaarn, Lao, etc. would be horrific. Ditto the wider regional de-stabilisation. This gap needs to be addressed.
More than anything else, I thank King Bumiphol for giving Thailand/ Siam stability – throughout His Reign. Pure genius, given all those jockeying for position.
Without this stability we would all be far, far worse off.
Where’s Vajiralongkorn?
I am really getting sick and tired of the endless bashing of the Crown Prince on this site, and some other places.
Give His Royal Highness a break – He is doing his best.
And may even have brokered a deal between Thaksin and the powers-that-be.
Please be fair – not bigoted – on this web-site.
tata cara pilih Pasaran Judi Sbobet88 Online yg Menguntungkan
based on the uncivility of the US, and its subject “western allies” I guess none of us can blame China for supplying Burma with nuclear technology
an interesting question is whether China does maintain a more solid philosophic and perhaps civilised base for its actions than the US
and possibly might have effective ways of controlling the application of technology that it distributes…
I guess the US, if it wishes to maintain control of weapons technology it enlists its network of “intelligence” agencies and threatens governments if they misbehave
China might have a broader based capability through the population of people in its customer countries that have loyalties back to the “mother” country?
tata cara pilih Pasaran Judi Sbobet88 Online yg Menguntungkan
talking of “uncivility”
the hypocrisy of the US, particularly during the years of Regan and the Bushes, in their attitude to the UN generally and the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaties substantially weakened the ability of the West to lead the world away from the insanity of nuclear weapons.
Simply put, the world now understands their are no grounds for trust in the West. All decisions must be “pragmatic”, based purely on power relations. There is no room for believing any underlying civilising factor at work.
Very sad for the world. This approach by the US has left us struggling with the Middle East disaster zone, Israel nuclear armed apartheid state, Iraq and Iran struggling to recover from US manipulation and direct and indirect colonisation (Shah, Saddam, Osama), Pakistan nuclear armed, proliferating and now dealing with the results of US manipulated politics.
It all started much earlier before the 2nd World War and US treatment of South America, but thats another story.
Three years on …
I just wish the redshirts would pull themselves away from Taksin! They have a reform agenda to which many can relate -the move away from the obligatory blind deference to an unaccountable minority to a fair and equitable society.
Perhaps a political movement must have some personification if it is to really succeed – a human face as it were – but this surely needs to be someone other than Taksin who is himself deeply flawed.
I don’t see how the red shirts can ever develop into a powerful agent for reform if they can’t move out from under the Taksin shadow.
The danger is they are now, what they will ever be -no real clout when and when it matters.
-Mariner
Volunteering to fight in Burma
Charles F.
I just missed you at Mae Surin, and then again in Mae Sot. I would like to open a conversation with you about your recent trip into Burma.
By the way, I heard in Mae Sot that you were injured – nothing serious I hope.
I tried to contact Jack Slade and the other individual who accompanied you, but have yet to receive a reply.
[email protected]
tata cara pilih Pasaran Judi Sbobet88 Online yg Menguntungkan
The increasing uncivility of western powers coupled with that the real energy crisis will prompt many country to seek nuclear energy followed by nuclear power. We are clearly entering a new age of nuclear proliferation. Now even its neigbor . Check out the report at Bangladesh has entered the nuclear bandwagon
Thailand’s royal disgrace
19 September 2009
I’d also like to remain upbeat, but from observing global political and social degradation for over four decades, it seems as if Thailand – lock, stock and barrel – is headed south in terms of democracy and opening up of civil and human rights protections where they matter: before the abuses occur.
Having recourse in the courts to violations is not sufficient. Protection has to involve prevention, and that is a process that Thais are not overly fond of adopting. Almost anything suffices both state and citizen as long as it involves talking it out and not getting too set on actually punishing someone for something they may have done – up to and including mass murder – but who then pretend to be sorry for it. Chalerm’s son, Chavalit and Muu Ham are only three obvious instances in this regard.
My pessimism originates from a growing readiness by Thais to accept ludicrous illusion after ludicrous illusion. When they don’t voluntarily accept it they are forced or brainwashed to. Is this any cause for optimism?
Thailand’s royal disgrace
Mariner: Abhisit is quiet on these laws precisely because his position currently depends on support from the palace.
Three years on …
PM Thaksin – the present and the future.
So the coup was a big success!
Three years on …
Yes, I’m with you Chris. The blatant boosting of Duncan McCargo’s very good book is a disgrace! Nothing more than an attempt to promote sensible discussion.
Three years on …
This blog only serves one person.
Asia Foundation study on Thai democracy
The most obvious thing that I understood from the entire survey was that even though 60% approximately have some respect for the army, the overwhelming support was for democracy.
If there is anything momentous that may come out of the last 5 years of political debauchery that has gone on in Thailand, it is finally that the army realises that possibly it cannot step to the forefront of Thai politics any more.
Many people look at Abhisit’s position and believe he is weak. In reality, the people he has most to fear from are the army, yet he is their “banker”.
They have to back him and if he uses this to his advantage, he may (and I say may) be able to re-unite the country.
Thailand’s royal disgrace
To those apologists who seem to think the punishment was somehow justified/excusable on the grounds that one should not be free to insult others then why is it that that there are no comparable prison terms for those who insult myself, you, or anyone other member of the general public?
Think about it for a moment: Why should not the same remedies for slander or libel apply to all? And if there is a reason why there are such draconian lese majeste laws what exactly are they? What mischief are they designed to prevent? The laws apply even if the ‘offensive’ remarks are genuine expressions of the truth.
I would add that Abhisit’s silence on the these laws is a disgrace.
To finish on an optimistic note, I don’t believe the Thai people will stand for all this nonsense much longer. They are ever more educated, informed and savvy to the ways of the world. More and more are willing to stand up and speak out.
-Mariner
“Happy Children” kindergartens without children
Bamar,
‘There is a lot of money and power there but no brains to create a political will to lift the nation out of this hell hole.’
Absolutely spot on. Brains singleminded only for clinging on to power and wealth, but not a grey cell willing or working for the people.
17 August 2009: petition day
Does Chris Beale really think Thailand is approaching some tipping point? Can he be more specific? Why he, as a foreigner, is worried about it breaking up? Has he followed a recent East European history for example? And what extraordinary progress is he talking about? Has Thailand become more socially fair and economically progressive country in the last decades? I will be quite pleased to see some answers here, although I do hold my breath here…
Interview with Professor Duncan McCargo
[…] this week, Professor Duncan McCargo was announced as the winner of the 2009 Asia Society Bernard Schwartz Book Award for Tearing Apart […]
17 August 2009: petition day
Chris Beale: better late than never eh? Only a month late on this thread. So tell us, what and where is the brink? Tell us why unity matters. Tell us why any of us should take Young seriously (did you read other threads on this?). Tell us why the brak up of the country is the only alternative. And tell us why political contestation should be treated as abnormal.
“Happy Children” kindergartens without children
It is rather common (unfortunately) that after a disaster quite a lot of projects are finished which have only limited value for the affected people. The Tsunami is another recent example, when all organisations (whether they have the competence or not) built houses. There are two main reasons why such a waste occurs:
1. From donation etc. a lot of funds are available that have to be spend in a limited time. Consequently one main task is to get rid of the money.
2. Success of a project funded mainly by donations is not at all connected to those who should make use of it, but in how far the donours look at it as money well spend. A Kindergarden with properly dressed kids, nice toys (see the Panda in another blog!), well build etc. fits the idea of a good project of the donours from the north atlantic region.
I once thought that one reason why most development projects are so useless has something to do with limited funds. Now I think, the more money is available, the more the projects are useless. This is one reason why I don’t think it is a good idea to increase global development spending. Unfortunately, currently a lot of money is available for (under)development projects. I guess in Thailand there are quite a few good examples of projects, whose prime objective is PR rather then facilitating “participatory sustianble development”. The only positive aspect is that in any case, close to 80% of the funds of a development project are spend for salaries (experts, consultants) and often more then 10% for the office. In other words, less then 10% reach the people and the local level.
“Happy Children” kindergartens without children
I have been to the delta recently. I have seen kids working for their living, in tea shops, on the streets selling food, just to survive for the next meal. I have seen kids as young as 6 or 7 in shops cutting old motor car tyres being prepared to be made into other usable products, such as slippers; I have seen them sifting through murky, slimly and smelly drains with their tender bare hands, this is where they all are, no time for schooling.
Where are the teachers? Affordability may play a part. Perhaps a holistic plan of UNICEF should include good pay for teachers to attract some qualified teachers too. But the problems goes deeper and deeper. There is no administrative infrastructure to support the system at all, nor indeed any form of infrastructure anywhere. Education, communication, transport, all these systems have been eroded for so long, these “stand alone” projects are bound for abysmal failure.
Where are the parents? Out in the fields or on the roads finding a means to survive for the next meal as well.
The only infrastructure that seems to be working is the military apparatus, but only for themselves. There is a lot of money and power there but no brains to create a political will to lift the nation out of this hell hole. Hence a failed state.