I guess we need to classify more finely. Thanong Po-An and Lawyer Somchai should be bracketed as abductions. These seem to succeed.
In the cases of Sondhi L., the car bomb, Boonsanong, and Klaeo Thanikul, the public violence is part of the message. These seem more variable.
The Klaeo case was the closest to Sondhi. The driver was hit too, and they found over a hundred M16 shells around the car. But the difference was that they blocked the car to a halt, and made very sure of the job.
I’m not sure I understand your thought about “believing in” supernaturalism or not. How would we know? How would they know? The point of our paper posted elsewhere on NM is that this supernaturalism has been closely bound up with power for a long time.
David Brown #48, apologies accepted. And, again, you have raised interesting, quite even-handed, observations in #48. Being Thai, I’m sure you are very familiar with the general Thai attitude to the law – we rarely respect the ‘spirit of the law’ but love to look for loopholes. Only the ‘stupid’ follow the letter of the law so I’ve heard. Just take driving alone – it’s normal to run red lights, make illegal u-turns, use bus lanes (except during the few days of the month when you are ‘fined’ by the police for local road rules you never knew existed). As you say, the higher you are in the hierarchy the more ‘untouchable’ you are either due to connections, money or top legal advice (well, here we are not that much different from any societies and you often hear from the States that you get a slap on the wrist for white-collar crimes causing millions of dollars in damage, but can get jailed for stealing items from the local grocery worth a few dollars).
In Thailand, there have been gradual, incremental improvements with the convictions of very powerful godfathers such as KamnanPoh and Vatana Asavaheme (who just lost his final appeal last week – and was recently spotted in Melbourne by a friend) – and even, you’ll disagree here, KYPotjaman, her brother and PMThaksin. MajGenSanan Krajornprasat was the first high profile political case – as he was the most powerful politician at that time, the manager and kingmaker of the Democrat government under PMChuan…
It is these developments and precedents which are promising for Thai society in the long term – especially if they lead to a more robust rule of law culture at all levels. This is a very big challenge as they are hard habits to break on a personal level and the law enforcers (the police) as an institution still leaves much to be desired.
Very good points Tettyan #141, but on the other hand it’s extremely hard to correct/redirect the habitual/traditional cycle of Thai Democracy where capitalist-mafias (the likes of PMThaksin) keeps creating pretexts for coups (who then often find deals with the capitalist-mafias too attractive to refuse). It is hoped that a robust rule of law culture will eventually mitigate politician’s and army general’s corruption and ambitions.
AjarnSomsak, your analysis is clearly framed by where your sympathies lie – which is consistent with many in NM and you will always blame the monarchy for all the country’s, and in particular Thai democracy’s ills. My own analysis is as stated in #8 and also in agreement with Ngandeeleg’s #14 and the ‘evidences’ (as is publicly available), through the years, can easily point in many directions and possibilities in terms of what exactly happened.
I am also of the view that Thai society is already ‘mature’ enough so that a broad-based, diverse groupings of ‘stakeholders’ – the politicians, the military, the bureaucrats, the monarchy, the urban middleclasses, the businessmen, the rural voters, the astrologers, religious leaders, unions, NGOs etc…etc… can be ALL ACCOUNTABLE for what the country is today socio-economically and politically (and environmentally too).
It’s too easy to reduce any society’s complexities to a few factors – it gets attention, it is ‘controversial’, it sells magazines and books. But reality is, overwhelmingly more often than now, anything but. It also often gives a wrong impression of a society (particularly internationally where Thailand gets minuscule coverage).
This reminds me of the time before I came to Australia over ten years ago and my ex-Australian student friends were telling me Australia is a racist country. The prominence of Pauline Hanson and One Nation in Asia then did not help. Coming here, many fellow international students were able to recall specific ‘racist’ experiences – locals in drive-bys shouting racist taunts, eggs thrown, cars vandalized, people in shopping malls shouting “go home”, the dominant white cast in Neighbours and Home and Away. Then you hear (as you very rarely see them) about the conditions of the indigenous population and statistics that their life expectancy is decades lower than the general population – all of which can easily reinforce one conclusion.
From my 10+ years here, I will clearly and confidently state that that is not true and an extremely inaccurate picture of the Australia. Yes, racism exists, but amongst a very, very small minority. A much more accurate picture would be a maturing, highly cosmopolitan society increasingly and wonderfully expressed in everyday life spaces – street life, food, popular culture, media (at least SBS and ABC, the best TV stations in the world)…
Having said that, I will not demand that NM give Thailand a fairer, more accurate treatment that it deserves. Australia and Thailand (save for one very minor law which does not apply for the overwhelming majority of Thais, expats and visiting foreigners) are free countries and we are perfectly entitled to our biases…
Funny that no one saw any of the 156 shot or carted off. In 1992 there were also lot of missing people, although most showed up again within a few months, but there were also quite a few bodies and witnesses to shootings that gave credence to the idea that some of the missing had been killed, rather than just tired of sending money home. Perhaps the 156 is another of Jim’s postmodernist imaginings.
Thanks Dickie Simpkins . . . I was going to ask Jim Taylor, eminent anthropologist from the University of Adelaide, whether or not he could back up his ‘156 people missing’ assertion?
Jim Taylor writes to give the impression that he speaks from “facts” or that his information is first hand.
I am beginning to wonder whether all anthropologists from Australia are like Jim?
Interesting point. High level assassination attempts of political figures seem to get nowhere, even with the resources and training of the military at the assassins’ disposal, while lowly political canvassers drop like nine pins at election time, felled in low budget 9mm pistol assassinations.
One of the problems is clearly that Thai Buddhist assassins quite reasonably expect to enjoy material remuneration (along with their 72 virgins) while still on this earth, which renders impractical the suicide bombs that are so effective against high value targets in Sri Lanka, India and the Middle East, where it is easy to indoctrinate fanatics to dispense with themselves along with the target. However, there is no room for complacency. Where unlimited cash and well educated, daring operatives are available, it is logical that higher technology solutions will be sought to tackle the problem. Following his call to arms it is not unlikely that Jakrophob Penkhair is now ruggedly attired in battle fatigues, while practicing to take out political targets from 1,500 metres with a Barret .50 sniper rifle through a hole drilled in the back of a Carry Boy.
Yes, military prosecutors filed charges against three officers who were suspects in the car bomb assassination attempt in March 2007 but they seem to have been dragging their heels a bit since then. Even though they proceeded with the case, does that mean it was real or just a bungled fake attempt, in which the tub of fertiliser and tangle of wires were intended to be found in the car without the driver? It seems more likely that, after the coup, the military would want to punish officers who staged a fake attempt paid for by Thaksin than those who staged a real one or in the latter case, perhaps they want to punish them for being unsuccessful. The easiest way to prosecute them and the way that would carry the highest penalties be to take the case at face value and prosecute them for a real assassination attempt.
Yes, the Yellows and their leadership is a lot more centralized. The Reds had a leader who called for a ‘revolution’ and that he would be back on the streets to lead it; then appeared on the international media saying he said no such thing, that he offered only ‘moral’ support, and has no intention for any violence whatsoever…. then shifted topics to bodies being hurled into trucks…. wasn’t he supposed to come back to lead them after hearing about the bodies?
Also, part of the ‘ad hoc’ Reds running rampant was that their leadership in front of government house did not send them a message saying it “is not ok”. That would be an important message to send…. “to our reds who have taken victory monument…. thank you for the symbol, you have done us proud… but our brothers and sisters need to go hospital, they need to work, we are not like the PAD, please come back to government house.” type message would have worked… did they do it? No. In fact, they set up a stage, brought a few screens and set up a vdo link to the main stage.
If the Red leadership did not want to encourage that sort of rogue and vigilant behavior in their ranks, they sure had a weird way of showing it.
That apart David, I want to get into something else here, something very relevant that I haven’t heard Somchai Wongsawat deny yet.
On the morning prior to the PAD leaving the airports and government house, Chamlong Srimuang sent a message to the tv pool stating that he had ‘come to an agreement with the Somchai government that no charges would be pressed against the PAD nor its leaders.’
Does a lack of denial on Somchai’s part mean this is true? What about the then Interior Minister… was he in on the deal?
156 people missing –> First time I have heard or seen such a figure. Can you please tell me the ‘source’ of information; or was it spoken word from some Red Stage?
Regarding Interior Ministry Movements and buses –> seem very ‘conspiracy theorist’ to me. Odd especially when Dr. Weng is one of those people who has a record of sending buses to soldiers as a tactic.
“Photo images have revealed…” ?? Can you provide a link? Or cut and paste such photograph that you have seen, I would like to see also…
regarding not believing information…. I agree with you here, people should use their own minds and request hard evidence, and not let anyone get away with unsubstantiated statements.
I wouldn’t believe the government, especially the military as they have a known record of lying.
Jon Fernquest is absolutely correct. The use of magic in Thai politics goes back centuries. There is evidence of monk spies using magic to infiltrate enemy compounds, magicians playing tricks on enemy armies, kings employing astrologers and protective ritualists, etc. etc. It only seems strange now because of the much publicized (but often ineffectual) “reform” and “socially engaged” movements. Skilling’s work is excellent, as the work on late 19th/early 20th century millenarian movements by Keyes, Chattip, and many others. I will stop here, although there is much more to say on the subject, of course. I have a book coming out on the subject of magic and ghosts in Thai Buddhism later this year (or 2010 depending on the publisher’s schedule). I’m not saying it will be good, but there will be a lot of stuff in it on the subject:)
There’s been a bit of comment in these pages recently about magic and amulets and politics, especially in Sondhi’s case. While I don’t at all dismiss true belief in magic and mysticism among leaders, I would remind that these people usually have “dual-use” approaches to magic. They know very clearly the political impact on others, especially followers, of their public acts of magic.
In Sondhi’s case, there is more. In the 1990s his publications actively played up the market for amulets, and meanwhile, if my memory serves correct, he put a some of the money Manager group raised on the stockmarket into amulets, something like 10 of the most expensive and coveted amulets. Again, working from memory, these I think were actually listed as assets in Manager’s company statements.
As for Newin Chidchob, he first came on the national scene as a defender of SET manipulator Sia Song. On his speaking tour with Song he defended Song’s investment as a sort of magic acumen on the economy. Perhaps he believed that — it was not clear Newin at the time understood the basics of economy. But I’m sure Newin was benefiting financially from the partnership, as well as politically.
So I’d remind that when writing about magic or mysticism in politics, one has to be cautious on whether the actor is a real believer or using it more as political theater.
But, yeah, if I had the money I would take a punt and buy a Jatukam Ramathep medal, if the prices haven’t shot up already.
As for political assassinations, above the level of local environmental and rights activists, and local political canvassers, Chris is right: the failures stand out, especially the attempts on Phibun in the 30s and Prem in the 80s. The highest profile one that I can recall is the socialist party leader in 1976. Would you include Jit Phumisak in ?64? Then there were the labor leader ?Thanong? and a chaopho at the beginning of the NPKC’s rule in 1991. Thanong of course disappeared so it was not exactly an assassination; and the chaopoh’s dramatic murder — war weapons, pickup trucks, motorcycles — could be seen at the level of simply rival godfather murders, though I always understood the NPKC was behind it.
Of course, if you accept one standard argument, you could say Ananda was a political assassination.
In fact, the latest figures show that 156 persons are still missing between 13-16 April army & blue shirt onslaught. As for the evidence of provocation…let me give one brief example of the buses: It was public knowledge that Newin wanted to purchase new buses and Min of Interior Chaovarat Chanweerakul (in charge of the blue shirts) called the Transport Department to send buses to Chonburi to pick up his supporters and bring them to Bangkok. There was no report of any buses coming back to the depot or being highjacked. The next day we saw the incident involving these same buses in Bangkok. They had arrived at the site driven by one person each bus and were not stopped by the army anywhere on route to the site of conflict. The buses that were subsequently burned were by a single person each bus who illegal photo images have since revealed were known agents of the government. My suggestion to doubters: do not believe everything you read and question the sources of information and its linkages.
hi Vichai… I agree the video is not conclusive… just intriguing and would seem to need an explanation… have you seen/heard any explanation?… other than the statement from one (unnamed?) redshirt that he woke up in a truck of bodies apparently on the way to Lopburi and managed to escape
The redshirt main leaders were at the main, peaceful rally around Government House. In the morning, after hearing of the events at Din Daeng the leaders asked the protesters to leave for home and offered themselves to the police.
I understand that the groups at the Ministry of the Interior and the road blockages were organised by spontaneous, ad hoc groups which were not “adequately organised”, the leaders at the main rally asked them to be peaceful, but they seemed to have no particular control over the activities and did not ask the protesters at the main rally to go out.
I attended some redshirt rallies and neither I nor any around us were approached or identified.
I think the red and yellow groups are quite different in their organisation and support base. The reds seem to be grouping around leaders of their own volition with decentralised local activist leaders. The yellows are highly organised, with logistic support from the army and strict control under a hierarchy of leadership. Many yellow shirts carried ID badges.
On the specifis things you mentioned:
– About attending funerals, giving gifts – Whilst I dont think it was necessarily wise given the political situation, and does not look good for balance, I just dont think it is conclusive proof because I am not prepared to pass judgement how individuals show or feel compassion for some people, and not others. That is an individual matter -we each can hear a story and some people will be moved by it and others not, and the individual who was moved by that story might not be similarly moved by other stories.
– About asking judges to sort out a political mess/stalemate – I dont really have any problem with that, but I would if there was clear, provable, interference in the process – the closest I have seen to some sort of proof was a tape that seemed inconclusive to me, and sounded more like people wanting to be seen to be doing something to help resolve the stalemate – I am open to further explanations on this matter.
– About Cheif adviser phoning to express support…I am not sure exactly who/what you are referring to, so cannot comment.
All that said, I do think there is something ‘fishy’ in Thailand, but I am still not sure of exactly who/what is behind it because there are so many major players involved, most of whom I think have dangerous character flaws, and I dont know whether other equally or more powerful characters (also with character flaws) are acting to save the country from certain characters or to preserve their own positions.
Looking around the region does not give me much confidence that things would ever fit with a western view of ‘liberal democracy’ – and that is something which this westerner has trouble holding up as an ideal goal anyway, although thats easy for me to say from my comfortable position which I concede is only made possible because of freedoms given to me by that same western liberal democracy.
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The Sondhi Limthongkul assassination effort
Paul #9
I guess we need to classify more finely. Thanong Po-An and Lawyer Somchai should be bracketed as abductions. These seem to succeed.
In the cases of Sondhi L., the car bomb, Boonsanong, and Klaeo Thanikul, the public violence is part of the message. These seem more variable.
The Klaeo case was the closest to Sondhi. The driver was hit too, and they found over a hundred M16 shells around the car. But the difference was that they blocked the car to a halt, and made very sure of the job.
I’m not sure I understand your thought about “believing in” supernaturalism or not. How would we know? How would they know? The point of our paper posted elsewhere on NM is that this supernaturalism has been closely bound up with power for a long time.
The crushing of the Red Shirts
Ralph Kramden #140
I repeat yet again. A practice round is a LIVE round. Got it?
Battle at Dindaeng, Bangkok, 13 April 2009
David Brown #48, apologies accepted. And, again, you have raised interesting, quite even-handed, observations in #48. Being Thai, I’m sure you are very familiar with the general Thai attitude to the law – we rarely respect the ‘spirit of the law’ but love to look for loopholes. Only the ‘stupid’ follow the letter of the law so I’ve heard. Just take driving alone – it’s normal to run red lights, make illegal u-turns, use bus lanes (except during the few days of the month when you are ‘fined’ by the police for local road rules you never knew existed). As you say, the higher you are in the hierarchy the more ‘untouchable’ you are either due to connections, money or top legal advice (well, here we are not that much different from any societies and you often hear from the States that you get a slap on the wrist for white-collar crimes causing millions of dollars in damage, but can get jailed for stealing items from the local grocery worth a few dollars).
In Thailand, there have been gradual, incremental improvements with the convictions of very powerful godfathers such as KamnanPoh and Vatana Asavaheme (who just lost his final appeal last week – and was recently spotted in Melbourne by a friend) – and even, you’ll disagree here, KYPotjaman, her brother and PMThaksin. MajGenSanan Krajornprasat was the first high profile political case – as he was the most powerful politician at that time, the manager and kingmaker of the Democrat government under PMChuan…
It is these developments and precedents which are promising for Thai society in the long term – especially if they lead to a more robust rule of law culture at all levels. This is a very big challenge as they are hard habits to break on a personal level and the law enforcers (the police) as an institution still leaves much to be desired.
The crushing of the Red Shirts
Very good points Tettyan #141, but on the other hand it’s extremely hard to correct/redirect the habitual/traditional cycle of Thai Democracy where capitalist-mafias (the likes of PMThaksin) keeps creating pretexts for coups (who then often find deals with the capitalist-mafias too attractive to refuse). It is hoped that a robust rule of law culture will eventually mitigate politician’s and army general’s corruption and ambitions.
Chang Noi on the “grey politics of survival”
AjarnSomsak, your analysis is clearly framed by where your sympathies lie – which is consistent with many in NM and you will always blame the monarchy for all the country’s, and in particular Thai democracy’s ills. My own analysis is as stated in #8 and also in agreement with Ngandeeleg’s #14 and the ‘evidences’ (as is publicly available), through the years, can easily point in many directions and possibilities in terms of what exactly happened.
I am also of the view that Thai society is already ‘mature’ enough so that a broad-based, diverse groupings of ‘stakeholders’ – the politicians, the military, the bureaucrats, the monarchy, the urban middleclasses, the businessmen, the rural voters, the astrologers, religious leaders, unions, NGOs etc…etc… can be ALL ACCOUNTABLE for what the country is today socio-economically and politically (and environmentally too).
It’s too easy to reduce any society’s complexities to a few factors – it gets attention, it is ‘controversial’, it sells magazines and books. But reality is, overwhelmingly more often than now, anything but. It also often gives a wrong impression of a society (particularly internationally where Thailand gets minuscule coverage).
This reminds me of the time before I came to Australia over ten years ago and my ex-Australian student friends were telling me Australia is a racist country. The prominence of Pauline Hanson and One Nation in Asia then did not help. Coming here, many fellow international students were able to recall specific ‘racist’ experiences – locals in drive-bys shouting racist taunts, eggs thrown, cars vandalized, people in shopping malls shouting “go home”, the dominant white cast in Neighbours and Home and Away. Then you hear (as you very rarely see them) about the conditions of the indigenous population and statistics that their life expectancy is decades lower than the general population – all of which can easily reinforce one conclusion.
From my 10+ years here, I will clearly and confidently state that that is not true and an extremely inaccurate picture of the Australia. Yes, racism exists, but amongst a very, very small minority. A much more accurate picture would be a maturing, highly cosmopolitan society increasingly and wonderfully expressed in everyday life spaces – street life, food, popular culture, media (at least SBS and ABC, the best TV stations in the world)…
Having said that, I will not demand that NM give Thailand a fairer, more accurate treatment that it deserves. Australia and Thailand (save for one very minor law which does not apply for the overwhelming majority of Thais, expats and visiting foreigners) are free countries and we are perfectly entitled to our biases…
Red faces: Unconvincing psych-ops
Vichai N #11
Funny that no one saw any of the 156 shot or carted off. In 1992 there were also lot of missing people, although most showed up again within a few months, but there were also quite a few bodies and witnesses to shootings that gave credence to the idea that some of the missing had been killed, rather than just tired of sending money home. Perhaps the 156 is another of Jim’s postmodernist imaginings.
Aid and politics after Cyclone Nargis
Hardly anybody mentions the obligation of the Burmese junta to open its treasure coffers and to help too.
http://www.mizzima.com/edop/commentary/2075-asking-for-more-aid-for-coffer-of-generals.html
Red faces: Unconvincing psych-ops
Thanks Dickie Simpkins . . . I was going to ask Jim Taylor, eminent anthropologist from the University of Adelaide, whether or not he could back up his ‘156 people missing’ assertion?
Jim Taylor writes to give the impression that he speaks from “facts” or that his information is first hand.
I am beginning to wonder whether all anthropologists from Australia are like Jim?
Red faces: Unconvincing psych-ops
Jim Taylor #7
“My suggestion to doubters: do not believe everything you read and question the sources of information and its linkages.”
Excellent advice Jim and as good a place as any to start doubting what you read is your article.
The Sondhi Limthongkul assassination effort
Chris Baker #6
Interesting point. High level assassination attempts of political figures seem to get nowhere, even with the resources and training of the military at the assassins’ disposal, while lowly political canvassers drop like nine pins at election time, felled in low budget 9mm pistol assassinations.
One of the problems is clearly that Thai Buddhist assassins quite reasonably expect to enjoy material remuneration (along with their 72 virgins) while still on this earth, which renders impractical the suicide bombs that are so effective against high value targets in Sri Lanka, India and the Middle East, where it is easy to indoctrinate fanatics to dispense with themselves along with the target. However, there is no room for complacency. Where unlimited cash and well educated, daring operatives are available, it is logical that higher technology solutions will be sought to tackle the problem. Following his call to arms it is not unlikely that Jakrophob Penkhair is now ruggedly attired in battle fatigues, while practicing to take out political targets from 1,500 metres with a Barret .50 sniper rifle through a hole drilled in the back of a Carry Boy.
The Sondhi Limthongkul assassination effort
tumbler #8
Yes, military prosecutors filed charges against three officers who were suspects in the car bomb assassination attempt in March 2007 but they seem to have been dragging their heels a bit since then. Even though they proceeded with the case, does that mean it was real or just a bungled fake attempt, in which the tub of fertiliser and tangle of wires were intended to be found in the car without the driver? It seems more likely that, after the coup, the military would want to punish officers who staged a fake attempt paid for by Thaksin than those who staged a real one or in the latter case, perhaps they want to punish them for being unsuccessful. The easiest way to prosecute them and the way that would carry the highest penalties be to take the case at face value and prosecute them for a real assassination attempt.
Battle at Dindaeng, Bangkok, 13 April 2009
David Brown #51.
Yes, the Yellows and their leadership is a lot more centralized. The Reds had a leader who called for a ‘revolution’ and that he would be back on the streets to lead it; then appeared on the international media saying he said no such thing, that he offered only ‘moral’ support, and has no intention for any violence whatsoever…. then shifted topics to bodies being hurled into trucks…. wasn’t he supposed to come back to lead them after hearing about the bodies?
Also, part of the ‘ad hoc’ Reds running rampant was that their leadership in front of government house did not send them a message saying it “is not ok”. That would be an important message to send…. “to our reds who have taken victory monument…. thank you for the symbol, you have done us proud… but our brothers and sisters need to go hospital, they need to work, we are not like the PAD, please come back to government house.” type message would have worked… did they do it? No. In fact, they set up a stage, brought a few screens and set up a vdo link to the main stage.
If the Red leadership did not want to encourage that sort of rogue and vigilant behavior in their ranks, they sure had a weird way of showing it.
That apart David, I want to get into something else here, something very relevant that I haven’t heard Somchai Wongsawat deny yet.
On the morning prior to the PAD leaving the airports and government house, Chamlong Srimuang sent a message to the tv pool stating that he had ‘come to an agreement with the Somchai government that no charges would be pressed against the PAD nor its leaders.’
Does a lack of denial on Somchai’s part mean this is true? What about the then Interior Minister… was he in on the deal?
Red faces: Unconvincing psych-ops
Jim,
156 people missing –> First time I have heard or seen such a figure. Can you please tell me the ‘source’ of information; or was it spoken word from some Red Stage?
Regarding Interior Ministry Movements and buses –> seem very ‘conspiracy theorist’ to me. Odd especially when Dr. Weng is one of those people who has a record of sending buses to soldiers as a tactic.
“Photo images have revealed…” ?? Can you provide a link? Or cut and paste such photograph that you have seen, I would like to see also…
regarding not believing information…. I agree with you here, people should use their own minds and request hard evidence, and not let anyone get away with unsubstantiated statements.
I wouldn’t believe the government, especially the military as they have a known record of lying.
However, the Red Leadership are not any better.
Red faces: Unconvincing psych-ops
hi Jim,
thanks for the very interesting update
will appreciate if you can point ua at any sources of this and related information, its OK in Thai or English
Another side of Thai political life
Jon Fernquest is absolutely correct. The use of magic in Thai politics goes back centuries. There is evidence of monk spies using magic to infiltrate enemy compounds, magicians playing tricks on enemy armies, kings employing astrologers and protective ritualists, etc. etc. It only seems strange now because of the much publicized (but often ineffectual) “reform” and “socially engaged” movements. Skilling’s work is excellent, as the work on late 19th/early 20th century millenarian movements by Keyes, Chattip, and many others. I will stop here, although there is much more to say on the subject, of course. I have a book coming out on the subject of magic and ghosts in Thai Buddhism later this year (or 2010 depending on the publisher’s schedule). I’m not saying it will be good, but there will be a lot of stuff in it on the subject:)
The Sondhi Limthongkul assassination effort
Chris, others:
There’s been a bit of comment in these pages recently about magic and amulets and politics, especially in Sondhi’s case. While I don’t at all dismiss true belief in magic and mysticism among leaders, I would remind that these people usually have “dual-use” approaches to magic. They know very clearly the political impact on others, especially followers, of their public acts of magic.
In Sondhi’s case, there is more. In the 1990s his publications actively played up the market for amulets, and meanwhile, if my memory serves correct, he put a some of the money Manager group raised on the stockmarket into amulets, something like 10 of the most expensive and coveted amulets. Again, working from memory, these I think were actually listed as assets in Manager’s company statements.
As for Newin Chidchob, he first came on the national scene as a defender of SET manipulator Sia Song. On his speaking tour with Song he defended Song’s investment as a sort of magic acumen on the economy. Perhaps he believed that — it was not clear Newin at the time understood the basics of economy. But I’m sure Newin was benefiting financially from the partnership, as well as politically.
So I’d remind that when writing about magic or mysticism in politics, one has to be cautious on whether the actor is a real believer or using it more as political theater.
But, yeah, if I had the money I would take a punt and buy a Jatukam Ramathep medal, if the prices haven’t shot up already.
As for political assassinations, above the level of local environmental and rights activists, and local political canvassers, Chris is right: the failures stand out, especially the attempts on Phibun in the 30s and Prem in the 80s. The highest profile one that I can recall is the socialist party leader in 1976. Would you include Jit Phumisak in ?64? Then there were the labor leader ?Thanong? and a chaopho at the beginning of the NPKC’s rule in 1991. Thanong of course disappeared so it was not exactly an assassination; and the chaopoh’s dramatic murder — war weapons, pickup trucks, motorcycles — could be seen at the level of simply rival godfather murders, though I always understood the NPKC was behind it.
Of course, if you accept one standard argument, you could say Ananda was a political assassination.
Red faces: Unconvincing psych-ops
In fact, the latest figures show that 156 persons are still missing between 13-16 April army & blue shirt onslaught. As for the evidence of provocation…let me give one brief example of the buses: It was public knowledge that Newin wanted to purchase new buses and Min of Interior Chaovarat Chanweerakul (in charge of the blue shirts) called the Transport Department to send buses to Chonburi to pick up his supporters and bring them to Bangkok. There was no report of any buses coming back to the depot or being highjacked. The next day we saw the incident involving these same buses in Bangkok. They had arrived at the site driven by one person each bus and were not stopped by the army anywhere on route to the site of conflict. The buses that were subsequently burned were by a single person each bus who illegal photo images have since revealed were known agents of the government. My suggestion to doubters: do not believe everything you read and question the sources of information and its linkages.
The crushing of the Red Shirts
Tettyan #141: Nice post – FWIW, I agree with that position
Battle at Dindaeng, Bangkok, 13 April 2009
Vichai #49
hi Vichai… I agree the video is not conclusive… just intriguing and would seem to need an explanation… have you seen/heard any explanation?… other than the statement from one (unnamed?) redshirt that he woke up in a truck of bodies apparently on the way to Lopburi and managed to escape
The redshirt main leaders were at the main, peaceful rally around Government House. In the morning, after hearing of the events at Din Daeng the leaders asked the protesters to leave for home and offered themselves to the police.
I understand that the groups at the Ministry of the Interior and the road blockages were organised by spontaneous, ad hoc groups which were not “adequately organised”, the leaders at the main rally asked them to be peaceful, but they seemed to have no particular control over the activities and did not ask the protesters at the main rally to go out.
I attended some redshirt rallies and neither I nor any around us were approached or identified.
I think the red and yellow groups are quite different in their organisation and support base. The reds seem to be grouping around leaders of their own volition with decentralised local activist leaders. The yellows are highly organised, with logistic support from the army and strict control under a hierarchy of leadership. Many yellow shirts carried ID badges.
Chang Noi on the “grey politics of survival”
On the specifis things you mentioned:
– About attending funerals, giving gifts – Whilst I dont think it was necessarily wise given the political situation, and does not look good for balance, I just dont think it is conclusive proof because I am not prepared to pass judgement how individuals show or feel compassion for some people, and not others. That is an individual matter -we each can hear a story and some people will be moved by it and others not, and the individual who was moved by that story might not be similarly moved by other stories.
– About asking judges to sort out a political mess/stalemate – I dont really have any problem with that, but I would if there was clear, provable, interference in the process – the closest I have seen to some sort of proof was a tape that seemed inconclusive to me, and sounded more like people wanting to be seen to be doing something to help resolve the stalemate – I am open to further explanations on this matter.
– About Cheif adviser phoning to express support…I am not sure exactly who/what you are referring to, so cannot comment.
All that said, I do think there is something ‘fishy’ in Thailand, but I am still not sure of exactly who/what is behind it because there are so many major players involved, most of whom I think have dangerous character flaws, and I dont know whether other equally or more powerful characters (also with character flaws) are acting to save the country from certain characters or to preserve their own positions.
Looking around the region does not give me much confidence that things would ever fit with a western view of ‘liberal democracy’ – and that is something which this westerner has trouble holding up as an ideal goal anyway, although thats easy for me to say from my comfortable position which I concede is only made possible because of freedoms given to me by that same western liberal democracy.