As I continue my research on ASEAN and Malaysia, honest and objective feedback such as your allows me to understand better the different stakeholders and how they perceive politicians and governments that form the ASEAN member states.
Can you be specific as to who collaborated with Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai in the drug wars that was of equal or more importance than them at the time?
I’ll try to take a stab at that one. Try looking at a speech from 4 Dec 2003. I wouldn’t try to read too much into it, but it might be good point of reference from which to think about this problem in general.
That the drug wars and the crackdown in the South were hugely popular in Thailand (where unbiased news about them was not available due to Thaksin’s stranglehold over the media) or that Sondhi Lim and Chamlong didn’t denounce them at the time fails to whitewash his record or make it acceptable that Westerners see him as in any way fit for public office in a developing country.
My opposition to Thaksin is based on principle. If other political leaders hold the same cavalier attitude toward the rule of law that he did (and supporting the war on drugs counts), then those leaders are just as unfit for public life as Thaksin is. As enthusiastic supporters of the drug war back in the day (who have never fully recanted their support – in fact, Chamlong was careful to say during the early stages of the PAD’s campaign that he was pro-Thaksin initially because he agreed w/ his policies during his first term), the PAD’s leadership are therefore, like Thaksin, also unfit for political leadership. That is why I am reluctant to support the Democrats wholeheartedly (though my family and many friends have been lifelong supporters) – because many members of their leadership have either explicit or backdoor connections to the PAD.
And it bothers me that no one has fully investigated what actually has happened and punished those involved. Thaksin’s opponents have been in power for most of the period since 2006, and still nothing. Their failure to take action in this regard is a but suspicious.
That’s odd. When I said they printed twice I meant both the 22nd that I do have in my possession and the 21st that you made photo. (Come to think of it, when you first mentioned this, I had a vague memory that I did in fact check the 21st before and apparently didn’t find the report there. In other words my situation – from memory – is the reverse of yours.)
The 22nd issue in my possession has the photo of the funeral (but different from one in your photo – mine is ‘portrait’ shape, yours ‘landscape’). The reports I quoted above in on page 1 and continues and finishes on page 2.
……………….
I just thought of an explanation of this little ‘mystery’. I assume that you know that all Thai daily newspapers (actually there’re one or two exceptions in 1976 but not nowsaday) are issued twice everyday, one in the morning with the actual date of that day, the other in the afternoon with tomorrow’s date. They’re called ‘р╕Бр╕гр╕нр╕Ър╕лр╕ер╕▒р╕З” (krob-lang) and “р╕Бр╕гр╕нр╕Ър╣Бр╕гр╕Б” (krob-raek) or “р╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╣Ар╕Кр╣Йр╕▓” and “р╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╕Ър╣Ир╕▓р╕в” respectively. (Actually this issue had important consequence for the study of the “6 Tula massacre”. It concerned the notorious photo of the “hanging of the CP” that sparked off the incidents: I explaned this in detail in my article “р╕Кр╕Щр╕зр╕Щ: р╕ар╕▓р╕Юр╕ер╕░р╕Др╕гр╣Бр╕Вр╕зр╕Щр╕Др╕нр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Щр╕│р╣Др╕Ыр╕кр╕╣р╣Ир╕Бр╕гр╕Ур╕╡ 6 р╕Хр╕╕р╕ер╕▓” collected in my book “р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕зр╕▒р╕Хр╕┤р╕ир╕▓р╕кр╕Хр╕гр╣Мр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕Юр╕┤р╣Ир╕Зр╕кр╕гр╣Йр╕▓р╕З” (no online version yet).
Now, suppose that the collection of Daily News you’ve been looking at only contains (in this case) the “krob-lang” or “р╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╣Ар╕Кр╣Йр╕▓” i.e. the one that came out in the morning of the 21st October and in the morning on all subsequent days. Since this morning edition of 21st already printed the report, the morning edition of the following day (the 22nd) didn’t, which explained why you didn’t find it there. On the other hand, it could be that mine was the “krob-raek” or “р╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╕Ър╣Ир╕▓р╕в” that came out on the afternoon of 21st October, but with the date stamp as “22nd October. (In other words, both my and your copies came out the same day – 21st – but with different date on the cover. This also explains why the collection I looked at didn’t have the report on the 21st, as it would be too early to have one – because the “21st” I looked would have come out afternoon of 2o October, the same time as the funeral. It explains too why in my case the report was rather late: the event happened on the 20th, but the paper only reported it on the “22nd”, actually it came out the 21st afternoon.)
………..
I wrote the above lines prior to actual checking of the original copy I have (it’s very, very old and in bad condition, I’m reluctant to check it too often). But I just did have a look and – aha! – mine was indeed the “р╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╣Бр╕гр╕Б” or “krob-raek” or the afternoon edition. So it actually came out on the 21st, like the one you looked at, only with the different date on it.
Sorry for all this confustion. But it help me a lot. As a professional historian, and especially when it comes to the study of “6 Tula” I’ve always been very concerned with all such “small” details. (As I said above the same issue does have consequence in the study of the incidents.)
Do you mean that it was published on both 21 and 22 October 1976?
Please give me the page number on 22 October. I will check it again. I believe that no such a thing on 22 October according to my research. If we can prove that there were two versions of a newspaper on the same day (22 October), that will be interesting.
“But, to simply call it “Thaksin’s drug war” completely ignores the socio-political set up of Thailand, and the predominant patronage system. Thaksin alone could have never done such a drug war without the collaboration of power networks of equal or more importance than Thailand’s Prime Minister and his governing party.”
Can you be specific as to who collaborated with Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai in the drug wars that was of equal or more importance than them at the time?
“Neo- fascist personality cult? I would suggest to find definitions of “fascism”, and then try find which group in the present political game is more applicable to carry such a label.”
The origin of the modern use of the word “fascist” is surely Mussolini’s Partita Fascista Nazionale. The Italian fascists came to power in highly controversial elections acquiring a mass following of working class voters by promising real power to workers in the industrial structure through the fascist labour unions (“corporatism”). Before long corporatism and democracy were abandoned in favour of unrestrained capitalism and authoritarian one party rule respectively. This label is a perfect fit for Thaksin and his ambitions. Who else in Thailand are you suggesting is a more worthy candidate for it?
Thaksin’s role in the drug wars and in the brutal crackdown in the South qualifies him as a human rights abuser on an impressive scale. That the drug wars and the crackdown in the South were hugely popular in Thailand (where unbiased news about them was not available due to Thaksin’s stranglehold over the media) or that Sondhi Lim and Chamlong didn’t denounce them at the time fails to whitewash his record or make it acceptable that Westerners see him as in any way fit for public office in a developing country. They would clearly not accept such a leader in their own developed countries. Manchester City fans, who chose to overlook his evil deeds are now rightly embarrassed that they chose Thaksin’s cash over human decency.
The Square Table link seems to be dead. No article is found. Too bad. Good post though, and illuminating. Especially those Irrawaddy articles and their quotes about Islam in the land of Dhamma.
First of all let me be quite clear that I am not an apologist for the Malaysian government. But as a business owner and operator in various South East Asian countries, I am neutral in political matters and only rely on what I experience and observation. Obviously living since a number of years in Malaysia, Vietnam and Thailand I also develop strong opinions and views.
1) Was it that her Ministry (MITI) was efficient (will need some objective indicators) and was she the reason that MITI was efficient of was it the fact that in deadling with international competition, MITI had to be efficient to attract FDI. The leadership, in this case Rafida, is responsible to deliver results. MITI does, and by far better, in a timely and more efficient way, than any other country in the region. I am still waiting for responses to issues from Thailand after 2 years. But let me illustrate the point. The FDI procedure was fragmented with immigration issue handled by the Immigration department, so when work permits needed to be issued/renewed, besides a cumbersome procedure, the Immigration department often took their time and made repeated mistakes. When it came to her attention, she immediately took action by instructing the staff on what to do and who to contact. In the next 12 months she was instrumental to change the procedure and Immigration Services were provided directly through MITI, simplifying and streamline the procedures.
2) Was she efficient in policy making? Was she responsible for the policies that Malaysia an attractive place for FDI. Was she responsible for the various policies that improved Malaysia’s technological capacity and capabilities? She was probably one of the people who certainly contributed to making Malaysia an attractive FDI place. Historians will with time be able to judge better to which extent. Dr M was certainly the visionary behind the whole policy, but Rafida was in charge of execution and she did. Look at the FDI numbers for Malaysia. That is the objective proof.
3) Would appreciate further clarification on why you perceive her to be one of the ‘best ministers’? She struck me as not only bright and savvy, but open minded and a good listener. She also knew her papers well. She did her homework. Now that is for sure something that you do not encounter often among politicians. I can not say that of others that I have met.
In response to hclau
I disagree with you. Would you not want experienced, proven and capable people on your team? Rafida is that for sure. Rafida did not create the AP for cars, she was instructed to do this by Dr M. As all these type of government programs you will have cronyism. That is everywhere in all countries. Like the Old Richard Dailey from Chicago is quoted as saying “if I can’t take care of your family and friends, why would I want the job?” Sure it decreases economic efficiencies. No question about it. But it is collateral damage, if I might use the term.
The way I see it is that in all systems, a team/party that stays to long runs out of ideas and energy. The best thing for Umno would be to loose a national election, as it would force to renew themselves. The best thing for Malaysia, and for all countries, is to have an effective opposition. Malaysia is in a transition phase. Dr M was/is a visionary. He is like a typical business entrepreneur. He has/had the will, energy, drive to develop his dream. Not all his projects were a successful, but on balance it was an overwhelming success. Anybody who has been to Malaysia can attest to that. When he stepped down, it was time for the professional manager to step in. Like most successful entrepreneurs, Dr M did not choose the strongest candidate to step in our shoes. Badawi is too much a gentleman and that was his weakness as PM. He did not have the killer instinct. What Malaysia currently needs is a professional manager that can correct, maintain and rebalance the system.
Has become? This is the historical baseline and not the exception, as the work below by Pali scholar Peter Skilling as well as many other works show.
Khun Chang Khun Phaen is saturated with magic and the incident the US ambassador describes, closely resembles many events in Burmese history, most notably Tabinshweihti’s relocation to Pantanaw after a negative astrological reading just before the Mon revolt that overthrew him.
Skilling, Peter (2007) King, Sangha, and Brahmans: Ideology, Ritual, and Power in Pre-modern Siam,” in Buddhism, Power and Political Order, ed. Ian Harris, London: Routledge
The drug war has been several times cited. The reporting on the drug war at the time was not sketchy at all. During the first three weeks every day in the news the corpses were shown in all detail, and successes were announced.
What though was, and still is, very sketchy, is the background of the drug war and the killings.
First of all, the drug war was necessary. The drug problem was completely out of hand. The killings though were more than unnecessary, and the reasons of the defenders of the killings, that otherwise the drug war would not have led to a success, is not suitable for a country that aspires to be a developed nation.
But, to simply call it “Thaksin’s drug war” completely ignores the socio-political set up of Thailand, and the predominant patronage system. Thaksin alone could have never done such a drug war without the collaboration of power networks of equal or more importance than Thailand’s Prime Minister and his governing party.
As we relate these drug war killings to the current protest, then you can see that not just the Red Shirts, but also the PAD have in the leadership people that have actively supported the drug war killings, such as Sondhi Limthongkul, who at that time was a close associate of Thaksin, and whose media empire was an important tool to propagate the drug war. Also Chamlong Srimuang, still closely allied with Thaksin at the time, has not made one statement against the drug war killings then.
The drug war killings were at most a very minor reason for the formation of Thaksin’s present opposition.
Before and during the drug war i have photographed the drug situation extensively, and also the drug war killings. Of course i was appalled. Several people that i have known disappeared, and many were incarcerated.
I would gladly see a trials for the drug war killings, against Thaksin, and all collaborators. But this is not going to happen, not now, not ever. Even the so called investigation committee of which Kraisak Choonhavan was part of has made sure to state that there is no link between Thaksin and the killings. Very likely such a link would have also uncovered links to their own allies under Thaksin’s opponents. The only statement that they have made is that they found that most killed were not involved with drugs, which, on the ground at the time, i cannot confirm. Most dead that i have seen were well known to have been directly involved. That does not mean though that killing them was in order. They should have received the benefits of due legal process.
I am tired of the constant simplistic debates on the drugwar, especially when opposition to the drug war killings is cited to support a group whose leaders and backers have been as much part of the drug war killings as Thaksin. We have to face reality – the drug war killings were a collaborated effort of almost all Thai elites to combat the serious drug problem, and it was hugely popular, under Thaksin’s supporters and what are now his opponents. Hardly any of these opponents now stood up against the drug war killings then. Yet some of what are now Red Shirts were outspoken about the drug war. People such as Giles Ungpakorn.
Also, the tone of the debate that portraits the ordinary Red Shirts as simple paid tools of Thaksin is highly patronizing, and reduces thinking human beings to objects. It is completely besides the point what i may feel about Thaksin. What is important is what Red Shirts feel about him, when i report on Red Shirts. I am not reporting on my own political convictions, but theirs.
Neo- fascist personality cult? I would suggest to find definitions of “fascism”, and then try find which group in the present political game is more applicable to carry such a label.
Going around Red Shirt rallies, it actually is possible to discuss these points, and especially the drug war. One may find that there are many differing views under ordinary Red Shirts on Thaksin’s weaknesses and strong points.
One for me interesting point though is, that the journalists who now come out and criticize my and some other journalist’s stories of the present political mess are never, or hardly ever to be seen working on the ground, neither in Red Shirt protests, nor in PAD protests. Thai history is written right now, and i am constantly appalled how few journalists (and academics) actually make the effort, and work these events from the ground level, and instead decide to write their stories from their offices.
The best idea would though be that the critics of my reporting from the ground level would go down and make their own researched reports from the ground level, and find their own interpretation of what is happening now in Thailand’s political scene. Let well researched stories compete against each other, and let the reader decide for himself.
KNLA camp falls to SPDC forces
by Daniel Pedersen on Apr.28, 2009, under Burma reportage
This evening, at about 5pm, soldiers of the SPDC and the DKBA, were picking through the significant encampment, trying to secure it.
It was not a safe mission.
The camp was left rigged to the hilt with explosive booby traps.
The combined SPDC/DKBA force suffered heavy casualties today in its final approach – the KNLA had blanketed the camp’s perimeter with landmines and tripwires.
“There were many casualties on the other side,” said KNLA Colonel Nerdah Mya.
“We have abandoned the camp and everybody is safe, we will fight another day,” he said at 5.15pm.
He said between 400 and 500 SPDC/DKBA soldiers took part in the final push to take the base camp.
Eighty came from the Thai side, said Nerdah.
He said the Thai Army was nearby, but stayed in Phadee, home to about 500 people who were evacuated yesterday as shells fell near their homes.
“They were there, but they didn’t go into the forest,” he said.
Thanks Dekchai Kimhan for the photo and for pointing out to the wrong number of years in another article of mine.
So Daily News published exactly the same report twice, whereas no other newspaper gave details of the funeral, no citing of the princess’s eulogy. It is thanks to Daily News that we now have this extremely important eulogy. Perhaps I should also add that, if my memory serve me correctly, I was told of the existence of this Daily News report around 15 years ago by Khun Thanaphol Ewsakul, now the editor of Fah Diew Kan. He was then a student of mine at TU where I just started teaching. Neither he nor I dared to publicize the info at the time. It took me quite a few more years (5 or 6 I think) when I finally decided that the situations were favorable enough to take a risk. I tell this story for the benefit of readers who may not be familiar how difficult to work on issue relating to the monarchy and to acknowledge Thanaphol’s contribution to this history of 6 Tula.
(When the princess was attending the funeral just two weeks after the massacre, I of course was not aware at all because I was in jail)
I agree that the popularity of the ‘war on drugs’ is disturbing although unfortunately it doesn’t astonish me. ‘Righteous’ crusades of this nature are appealing to a great many ‘upstanding citizens’ the world over. When Thaksin took over Manchester City FC I was one of a small minority of fans who opposed the takeover because of his record on human rights. There was a great deal of debate on the English MCFC fans message boards and a great swell of pro-Thaksin evangelism. He was a “champion of the poor against the evil aristocracy and the army”. New Mandala & BP were cited frequently; “these are the people who really know what’s going on in Thailand”. The war on drugs was ‘a good thing’ I was told. Shooting ‘druggy’ parents in front of their children would teach the kids to steer clear of the evils of drugs (really). “We should do the same in the UK”. “What about the human rights of the parents who lost their children to drugs?” was a common cry. I felt revulsion; I am no longer a football fan.
I’m not convinced that in Thailand at the time of the 2005 election that “many were aware that not everyone who was killed was necessarily a drug dealer”. The human rights atrocities committed by the TRT government were massively under-reported due to Thaksin’s stranglehold of the media. Even now many Bangkokians I speak to (even those who take a fairly serious interest in politics) are ill-informed about the war on drugs, especially in regard to any of the individual cases of victims exposed by HRW and others. Many of the anti-Thaksin crowd appreciate the opportunity to call him a murderer but seem to be very sketchy on the details.
It’s interesting that you should mention a ‘rule of law’ culture. I don’t disagree that this has been sadly lacking in Thailand. We now have a prime minister who is, at the very least, taking a few steps in the right direction, and is paying more attention to human rights issues (I acknowledge the disappointing response to the Rohingyha atrocities, and failure to prosecute Tak Bai, & repeal LM but he’s still a major improvement!). I hope you will join me in condemning the criminals who tried to kill him, attacked religious minorities, murdered local residents who were defending their livelihoods, and threatened to explode gas-tankers in residential areas of Bangkok.
I’m sure the ‘red’ poor of Northern Thailand have many genuine grievances which must be addressed as a matter of urgency, I’m sure that many of them are very nice people and that their culture is rich and fascinating, but this does not absolve them from being devotees to a murderous neo-fascist personality cult. Neither, in my view, does it provide moral justification to Mr Nostitz or others to propagandize the “red uprising” (sic). I’m not aware of Mr Nostitz work in regard to the war on drugs, but if, as I assume, he exposed these appalling abuses to the wider world then he is to be commended for doing so. I would not accuse him of “of ignoring Thaksin’s crimes during the war on drugs” but I would question his judgement in supporting a movement funded by, directed by, and devoted to a ‘human rights abuser of the worst kind’.
As Nick pointed out in his report, the Thai media were not in a position to produce this sort of report on these events from a red shirt perspective, whether they had a mind to or not, because the red shirts attacked their vehicles and threatened them. You can argue whether the chicken or the egg came first, if you like, but that was the reality over Songkran.
This information source is available to your Thai friends. The website is not blocked in Thailand and parts of it (I am not sure if this article is included yet) are translated into Thai.
It would be useful to clarify what you mean by “very effective in handling her job” .
Was it that her Ministry (MITI) was efficient (will need some objective indicators) and was she the reason that MITI was efficient of was it the fact that in deadling with international competition, MITI had to be efficient to attract FDI.
Was she efficient in policy making? Was she responsible for the policies that Malaysia an attractive place for FDI. Was she responsible for the various policies that improved Malaysia’s technological capacity and capabilities?
Would appreciate further clarification on why you perceive her to be one of the ‘best ministers’?
During the recent years of protests many amulets have been issued in direct connection with the protest groups, such as the one Baht-Jatukam Ramathep by the “Saturday Group against Dictatorship” (which at the time straight after the military coup became quite an issue when coup supporters accused the group not to have followed the rituals of the temples in Nakhorn Si Thammarat), the “Pah Yant” of the guards, such as the Naklop Srivichai of the PAD, or the King Taksin amulets by Sae Daeng’s Naclop Prachao Taksin.
The latest i have collected was a wristband given out at the small ceremony for the victims at Samliem Din Daen that was held at April 23rd. Altogether i have collected maybe two or three dozen amulets in direct relation to the street protests.
May i also remind of the bizarre ritual that Sondhi Limthongkul held to remove tacks supposedly planted by Newin at important locations connected to the monarchy, and in which he used sanitary napkins menstruating female PAD protesters as a protection device, as described in an article by Chang Noi: “PAD saves the nation from supernatural attack”.
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The survival of Najib and UMNO
Thank you Ph O Piette for your response.
As I continue my research on ASEAN and Malaysia, honest and objective feedback such as your allows me to understand better the different stakeholders and how they perceive politicians and governments that form the ASEAN member states.
The crushing of the Red Shirts
Can you be specific as to who collaborated with Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai in the drug wars that was of equal or more importance than them at the time?
I’ll try to take a stab at that one. Try looking at a speech from 4 Dec 2003. I wouldn’t try to read too much into it, but it might be good point of reference from which to think about this problem in general.
That the drug wars and the crackdown in the South were hugely popular in Thailand (where unbiased news about them was not available due to Thaksin’s stranglehold over the media) or that Sondhi Lim and Chamlong didn’t denounce them at the time fails to whitewash his record or make it acceptable that Westerners see him as in any way fit for public office in a developing country.
My opposition to Thaksin is based on principle. If other political leaders hold the same cavalier attitude toward the rule of law that he did (and supporting the war on drugs counts), then those leaders are just as unfit for public life as Thaksin is. As enthusiastic supporters of the drug war back in the day (who have never fully recanted their support – in fact, Chamlong was careful to say during the early stages of the PAD’s campaign that he was pro-Thaksin initially because he agreed w/ his policies during his first term), the PAD’s leadership are therefore, like Thaksin, also unfit for political leadership. That is why I am reluctant to support the Democrats wholeheartedly (though my family and many friends have been lifelong supporters) – because many members of their leadership have either explicit or backdoor connections to the PAD.
And it bothers me that no one has fully investigated what actually has happened and punished those involved. Thaksin’s opponents have been in power for most of the period since 2006, and still nothing. Their failure to take action in this regard is a but suspicious.
Student massacres
That’s odd. When I said they printed twice I meant both the 22nd that I do have in my possession and the 21st that you made photo. (Come to think of it, when you first mentioned this, I had a vague memory that I did in fact check the 21st before and apparently didn’t find the report there. In other words my situation – from memory – is the reverse of yours.)
The 22nd issue in my possession has the photo of the funeral (but different from one in your photo – mine is ‘portrait’ shape, yours ‘landscape’). The reports I quoted above in on page 1 and continues and finishes on page 2.
……………….
I just thought of an explanation of this little ‘mystery’. I assume that you know that all Thai daily newspapers (actually there’re one or two exceptions in 1976 but not nowsaday) are issued twice everyday, one in the morning with the actual date of that day, the other in the afternoon with tomorrow’s date. They’re called ‘р╕Бр╕гр╕нр╕Ър╕лр╕ер╕▒р╕З” (krob-lang) and “р╕Бр╕гр╕нр╕Ър╣Бр╕гр╕Б” (krob-raek) or “р╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╣Ар╕Кр╣Йр╕▓” and “р╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╕Ър╣Ир╕▓р╕в” respectively. (Actually this issue had important consequence for the study of the “6 Tula massacre”. It concerned the notorious photo of the “hanging of the CP” that sparked off the incidents: I explaned this in detail in my article “р╕Кр╕Щр╕зр╕Щ: р╕ар╕▓р╕Юр╕ер╕░р╕Др╕гр╣Бр╕Вр╕зр╕Щр╕Др╕нр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Щр╕│р╣Др╕Ыр╕кр╕╣р╣Ир╕Бр╕гр╕Ур╕╡ 6 р╕Хр╕╕р╕ер╕▓” collected in my book “р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕зр╕▒р╕Хр╕┤р╕ир╕▓р╕кр╕Хр╕гр╣Мр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕Юр╕┤р╣Ир╕Зр╕кр╕гр╣Йр╕▓р╕З” (no online version yet).
Now, suppose that the collection of Daily News you’ve been looking at only contains (in this case) the “krob-lang” or “р╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╣Ар╕Кр╣Йр╕▓” i.e. the one that came out in the morning of the 21st October and in the morning on all subsequent days. Since this morning edition of 21st already printed the report, the morning edition of the following day (the 22nd) didn’t, which explained why you didn’t find it there. On the other hand, it could be that mine was the “krob-raek” or “р╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╕Ър╣Ир╕▓р╕в” that came out on the afternoon of 21st October, but with the date stamp as “22nd October. (In other words, both my and your copies came out the same day – 21st – but with different date on the cover. This also explains why the collection I looked at didn’t have the report on the 21st, as it would be too early to have one – because the “21st” I looked would have come out afternoon of 2o October, the same time as the funeral. It explains too why in my case the report was rather late: the event happened on the 20th, but the paper only reported it on the “22nd”, actually it came out the 21st afternoon.)
………..
I wrote the above lines prior to actual checking of the original copy I have (it’s very, very old and in bad condition, I’m reluctant to check it too often). But I just did have a look and – aha! – mine was indeed the “р╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╣Бр╕гр╕Б” or “krob-raek” or the afternoon edition. So it actually came out on the 21st, like the one you looked at, only with the different date on it.
Sorry for all this confustion. But it help me a lot. As a professional historian, and especially when it comes to the study of “6 Tula” I’ve always been very concerned with all such “small” details. (As I said above the same issue does have consequence in the study of the incidents.)
The crisis in Northern Rakhine State
Thanks david w,
The Square Table link is fixed. Thanks for the heads up.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Student massacres
Re: “So Daily News published exactly the same report twice”
р╕нр╕▓р╕Ир╕▓р╕гр╕вр╣Мр╕лр╕бр╕▓р╕вр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╣Ар╕Вр╕▓р╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣Мр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕зр╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣И 21 р╣Бр╕ер╕░ 22 р╣Ар╕лр╕гр╕нр╕Др╕гр╕▒р╕Ъ
р╕зр╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ьр╕бр╣Др╕Ыр╕Др╣Йр╕Щр╕лр╕Щр╕▒р╕Зр╕кр╕╖р╕нр╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣М р╕Ьр╕бр╕Юр╕ер╕┤р╕Бр╕лр╕Щр╕▒р╕Зр╕кр╕╖р╕нр╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣Мр╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╕зр╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣И 22 р╕Фр╕╣р╕лр╕ер╕▓р╕вр╕гр╕нр╕Ъ р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Ар╕Ир╕нр╣Ар╕ер╕в р╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕Юр╕ер╕┤р╕Бр╣Др╕Ыр╕Фр╕╣р╕зр╕▒р╕Щр╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕Зр╣Ар╕Др╕╡р╕вр╕З р╕Хр╕нр╕Щр╣Бр╕гр╕Бр╕Бр╣Зр╕Юр╕ер╕┤р╕Бр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕зр╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣И 23 р╣Ар╕гр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕вр╣Др╕Ыр╕Ир╕Щр╕Ир╕Ър╣Ар╕Фр╕╖р╕нр╕Щ р╕Щр╕╢р╕Бр╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╕кр╕┤р╣Йр╕Щр╕лр╕зр╕▒р╕Зр╕Лр╕░р╣Бр╕ер╣Йр╕з р╕Бр╣Ир╕нр╕Щр╕Бр╕ер╕▒р╕Ър╕Ър╣Йр╕▓р╕Щр╕Др╕┤р╕Фр╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╣Ар╕лр╕Хр╕╕р╣Ар╕Бр╕┤р╕Фр╕зр╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣И 20 р╕Бр╣Зр╕Щр╣Ир╕▓р╕Ир╕░р╕бр╕╡р╣Вр╕нр╕Бр╕▓р╕кр╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣Мр╣Гр╕Щр╕зр╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣И 20 р╣Бр╕ер╕░ 21 р╕Фр╣Йр╕зр╕в р╣Ар╕ер╕вр╕Юр╕Ър╣Ар╕Вр╣Йр╕▓ р╕нр╕вр╕▓р╕Бр╕гр╕Ър╕Бр╕зр╕Щр╕нр╕▓р╕Ир╕▓р╕гр╕вр╣Мр╕Ър╕нр╕Бр╣Ар╕ер╕Вр╕лр╕Щр╣Йр╕▓р╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕зр╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣И 22 р╕Ьр╕бр╕Ир╕░р╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╣Др╕Ыр╕Др╣Йр╕Щр╕бр╕▓р╣Гр╕лр╕бр╣Ир╕Др╕гр╕▒р╕Ъ р╣Ар╕Юр╕гр╕▓р╕░р╕Ьр╕бр╕гр╕╣р╣Йр╕кр╕╢р╕Бр╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╕бр╕▒р╕Щр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕бр╕╡р╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╣Ж р╕Юр╕ер╕┤р╕Бр╕лр╕ер╕▓р╕вр╕гр╕нр╕Ър╣Бр╕ер╣Йр╕з
р╕нр╕▓р╕Ир╕Ир╕░р╕бр╕╡р╕нр╕░р╣Др╕гр╕Хр╕╕р╕Бр╕Хр╕┤р╕Бр╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╣Ар╕Ыр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕Др╕гр╕▒р╕Ъ р╕Цр╣Йр╕▓р╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ьр╕бр╕Др╣Йр╕Щр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕бр╕╡р╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕нр╕▓р╕Ир╕▓р╕гр╕вр╣Мр╕бр╕╡р╕нр╕вр╕╣р╣Ир╕бр╕╡р╣Ар╕Щр╕╖р╣Йр╕нр╕лр╕▓р╕Фр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕з
Do you mean that it was published on both 21 and 22 October 1976?
Please give me the page number on 22 October. I will check it again. I believe that no such a thing on 22 October according to my research. If we can prove that there were two versions of a newspaper on the same day (22 October), that will be interesting.
The crushing of the Red Shirts
Nick Nostitz #111
“But, to simply call it “Thaksin’s drug war” completely ignores the socio-political set up of Thailand, and the predominant patronage system. Thaksin alone could have never done such a drug war without the collaboration of power networks of equal or more importance than Thailand’s Prime Minister and his governing party.”
Can you be specific as to who collaborated with Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai in the drug wars that was of equal or more importance than them at the time?
“Neo- fascist personality cult? I would suggest to find definitions of “fascism”, and then try find which group in the present political game is more applicable to carry such a label.”
The origin of the modern use of the word “fascist” is surely Mussolini’s Partita Fascista Nazionale. The Italian fascists came to power in highly controversial elections acquiring a mass following of working class voters by promising real power to workers in the industrial structure through the fascist labour unions (“corporatism”). Before long corporatism and democracy were abandoned in favour of unrestrained capitalism and authoritarian one party rule respectively. This label is a perfect fit for Thaksin and his ambitions. Who else in Thailand are you suggesting is a more worthy candidate for it?
Thaksin’s role in the drug wars and in the brutal crackdown in the South qualifies him as a human rights abuser on an impressive scale. That the drug wars and the crackdown in the South were hugely popular in Thailand (where unbiased news about them was not available due to Thaksin’s stranglehold over the media) or that Sondhi Lim and Chamlong didn’t denounce them at the time fails to whitewash his record or make it acceptable that Westerners see him as in any way fit for public office in a developing country. They would clearly not accept such a leader in their own developed countries. Manchester City fans, who chose to overlook his evil deeds are now rightly embarrassed that they chose Thaksin’s cash over human decency.
The crisis in Northern Rakhine State
The Square Table link seems to be dead. No article is found. Too bad. Good post though, and illuminating. Especially those Irrawaddy articles and their quotes about Islam in the land of Dhamma.
The survival of Najib and UMNO
First of all let me be quite clear that I am not an apologist for the Malaysian government. But as a business owner and operator in various South East Asian countries, I am neutral in political matters and only rely on what I experience and observation. Obviously living since a number of years in Malaysia, Vietnam and Thailand I also develop strong opinions and views.
1) Was it that her Ministry (MITI) was efficient (will need some objective indicators) and was she the reason that MITI was efficient of was it the fact that in deadling with international competition, MITI had to be efficient to attract FDI. The leadership, in this case Rafida, is responsible to deliver results. MITI does, and by far better, in a timely and more efficient way, than any other country in the region. I am still waiting for responses to issues from Thailand after 2 years. But let me illustrate the point. The FDI procedure was fragmented with immigration issue handled by the Immigration department, so when work permits needed to be issued/renewed, besides a cumbersome procedure, the Immigration department often took their time and made repeated mistakes. When it came to her attention, she immediately took action by instructing the staff on what to do and who to contact. In the next 12 months she was instrumental to change the procedure and Immigration Services were provided directly through MITI, simplifying and streamline the procedures.
2) Was she efficient in policy making? Was she responsible for the policies that Malaysia an attractive place for FDI. Was she responsible for the various policies that improved Malaysia’s technological capacity and capabilities? She was probably one of the people who certainly contributed to making Malaysia an attractive FDI place. Historians will with time be able to judge better to which extent. Dr M was certainly the visionary behind the whole policy, but Rafida was in charge of execution and she did. Look at the FDI numbers for Malaysia. That is the objective proof.
3) Would appreciate further clarification on why you perceive her to be one of the ‘best ministers’? She struck me as not only bright and savvy, but open minded and a good listener. She also knew her papers well. She did her homework. Now that is for sure something that you do not encounter often among politicians. I can not say that of others that I have met.
In response to hclau
I disagree with you. Would you not want experienced, proven and capable people on your team? Rafida is that for sure. Rafida did not create the AP for cars, she was instructed to do this by Dr M. As all these type of government programs you will have cronyism. That is everywhere in all countries. Like the Old Richard Dailey from Chicago is quoted as saying “if I can’t take care of your family and friends, why would I want the job?” Sure it decreases economic efficiencies. No question about it. But it is collateral damage, if I might use the term.
The way I see it is that in all systems, a team/party that stays to long runs out of ideas and energy. The best thing for Umno would be to loose a national election, as it would force to renew themselves. The best thing for Malaysia, and for all countries, is to have an effective opposition. Malaysia is in a transition phase. Dr M was/is a visionary. He is like a typical business entrepreneur. He has/had the will, energy, drive to develop his dream. Not all his projects were a successful, but on balance it was an overwhelming success. Anybody who has been to Malaysia can attest to that. When he stepped down, it was time for the professional manager to step in. Like most successful entrepreneurs, Dr M did not choose the strongest candidate to step in our shoes. Badawi is too much a gentleman and that was his weakness as PM. He did not have the killer instinct. What Malaysia currently needs is a professional manager that can correct, maintain and rebalance the system.
Another side of Thai political life
“how pervasive magic has become in Thai politics”
Has become? This is the historical baseline and not the exception, as the work below by Pali scholar Peter Skilling as well as many other works show.
Khun Chang Khun Phaen is saturated with magic and the incident the US ambassador describes, closely resembles many events in Burmese history, most notably Tabinshweihti’s relocation to Pantanaw after a negative astrological reading just before the Mon revolt that overthrew him.
Skilling, Peter (2007) King, Sangha, and Brahmans: Ideology, Ritual, and Power in Pre-modern Siam,” in Buddhism, Power and Political Order, ed. Ian Harris, London: Routledge
The crushing of the Red Shirts
The drug war has been several times cited. The reporting on the drug war at the time was not sketchy at all. During the first three weeks every day in the news the corpses were shown in all detail, and successes were announced.
What though was, and still is, very sketchy, is the background of the drug war and the killings.
First of all, the drug war was necessary. The drug problem was completely out of hand. The killings though were more than unnecessary, and the reasons of the defenders of the killings, that otherwise the drug war would not have led to a success, is not suitable for a country that aspires to be a developed nation.
But, to simply call it “Thaksin’s drug war” completely ignores the socio-political set up of Thailand, and the predominant patronage system. Thaksin alone could have never done such a drug war without the collaboration of power networks of equal or more importance than Thailand’s Prime Minister and his governing party.
As we relate these drug war killings to the current protest, then you can see that not just the Red Shirts, but also the PAD have in the leadership people that have actively supported the drug war killings, such as Sondhi Limthongkul, who at that time was a close associate of Thaksin, and whose media empire was an important tool to propagate the drug war. Also Chamlong Srimuang, still closely allied with Thaksin at the time, has not made one statement against the drug war killings then.
The drug war killings were at most a very minor reason for the formation of Thaksin’s present opposition.
Before and during the drug war i have photographed the drug situation extensively, and also the drug war killings. Of course i was appalled. Several people that i have known disappeared, and many were incarcerated.
I would gladly see a trials for the drug war killings, against Thaksin, and all collaborators. But this is not going to happen, not now, not ever. Even the so called investigation committee of which Kraisak Choonhavan was part of has made sure to state that there is no link between Thaksin and the killings. Very likely such a link would have also uncovered links to their own allies under Thaksin’s opponents. The only statement that they have made is that they found that most killed were not involved with drugs, which, on the ground at the time, i cannot confirm. Most dead that i have seen were well known to have been directly involved. That does not mean though that killing them was in order. They should have received the benefits of due legal process.
I am tired of the constant simplistic debates on the drugwar, especially when opposition to the drug war killings is cited to support a group whose leaders and backers have been as much part of the drug war killings as Thaksin. We have to face reality – the drug war killings were a collaborated effort of almost all Thai elites to combat the serious drug problem, and it was hugely popular, under Thaksin’s supporters and what are now his opponents. Hardly any of these opponents now stood up against the drug war killings then. Yet some of what are now Red Shirts were outspoken about the drug war. People such as Giles Ungpakorn.
Also, the tone of the debate that portraits the ordinary Red Shirts as simple paid tools of Thaksin is highly patronizing, and reduces thinking human beings to objects. It is completely besides the point what i may feel about Thaksin. What is important is what Red Shirts feel about him, when i report on Red Shirts. I am not reporting on my own political convictions, but theirs.
Neo- fascist personality cult? I would suggest to find definitions of “fascism”, and then try find which group in the present political game is more applicable to carry such a label.
Going around Red Shirt rallies, it actually is possible to discuss these points, and especially the drug war. One may find that there are many differing views under ordinary Red Shirts on Thaksin’s weaknesses and strong points.
One for me interesting point though is, that the journalists who now come out and criticize my and some other journalist’s stories of the present political mess are never, or hardly ever to be seen working on the ground, neither in Red Shirt protests, nor in PAD protests. Thai history is written right now, and i am constantly appalled how few journalists (and academics) actually make the effort, and work these events from the ground level, and instead decide to write their stories from their offices.
The best idea would though be that the critics of my reporting from the ground level would go down and make their own researched reports from the ground level, and find their own interpretation of what is happening now in Thailand’s political scene. Let well researched stories compete against each other, and let the reader decide for himself.
Another side of Thai political life
Seems Sondhi maybe Thai “Rasputin” ?
No wonder he is fond of exploring female anatomy in his part time.
Volunteering to fight in Burma
“We will build another camp, we will build more camps and we will invite them to come and step on landmines again.”
Colonel Nerdah
Volunteering to fight in Burma
KNLA camp falls to SPDC forces
by Daniel Pedersen on Apr.28, 2009, under Burma reportage
This evening, at about 5pm, soldiers of the SPDC and the DKBA, were picking through the significant encampment, trying to secure it.
It was not a safe mission.
The camp was left rigged to the hilt with explosive booby traps.
The combined SPDC/DKBA force suffered heavy casualties today in its final approach – the KNLA had blanketed the camp’s perimeter with landmines and tripwires.
“There were many casualties on the other side,” said KNLA Colonel Nerdah Mya.
“We have abandoned the camp and everybody is safe, we will fight another day,” he said at 5.15pm.
He said between 400 and 500 SPDC/DKBA soldiers took part in the final push to take the base camp.
Eighty came from the Thai side, said Nerdah.
He said the Thai Army was nearby, but stayed in Phadee, home to about 500 people who were evacuated yesterday as shells fell near their homes.
“They were there, but they didn’t go into the forest,” he said.
http://www.danielpedersen.org/?p=495
Student massacres
Thanks Dekchai Kimhan for the photo and for pointing out to the wrong number of years in another article of mine.
So Daily News published exactly the same report twice, whereas no other newspaper gave details of the funeral, no citing of the princess’s eulogy. It is thanks to Daily News that we now have this extremely important eulogy. Perhaps I should also add that, if my memory serve me correctly, I was told of the existence of this Daily News report around 15 years ago by Khun Thanaphol Ewsakul, now the editor of Fah Diew Kan. He was then a student of mine at TU where I just started teaching. Neither he nor I dared to publicize the info at the time. It took me quite a few more years (5 or 6 I think) when I finally decided that the situations were favorable enough to take a risk. I tell this story for the benefit of readers who may not be familiar how difficult to work on issue relating to the monarchy and to acknowledge Thanaphol’s contribution to this history of 6 Tula.
(When the princess was attending the funeral just two weeks after the massacre, I of course was not aware at all because I was in jail)
The crushing of the Red Shirts
Tettyan #105
I agree that the popularity of the ‘war on drugs’ is disturbing although unfortunately it doesn’t astonish me. ‘Righteous’ crusades of this nature are appealing to a great many ‘upstanding citizens’ the world over. When Thaksin took over Manchester City FC I was one of a small minority of fans who opposed the takeover because of his record on human rights. There was a great deal of debate on the English MCFC fans message boards and a great swell of pro-Thaksin evangelism. He was a “champion of the poor against the evil aristocracy and the army”. New Mandala & BP were cited frequently; “these are the people who really know what’s going on in Thailand”. The war on drugs was ‘a good thing’ I was told. Shooting ‘druggy’ parents in front of their children would teach the kids to steer clear of the evils of drugs (really). “We should do the same in the UK”. “What about the human rights of the parents who lost their children to drugs?” was a common cry. I felt revulsion; I am no longer a football fan.
I’m not convinced that in Thailand at the time of the 2005 election that “many were aware that not everyone who was killed was necessarily a drug dealer”. The human rights atrocities committed by the TRT government were massively under-reported due to Thaksin’s stranglehold of the media. Even now many Bangkokians I speak to (even those who take a fairly serious interest in politics) are ill-informed about the war on drugs, especially in regard to any of the individual cases of victims exposed by HRW and others. Many of the anti-Thaksin crowd appreciate the opportunity to call him a murderer but seem to be very sketchy on the details.
It’s interesting that you should mention a ‘rule of law’ culture. I don’t disagree that this has been sadly lacking in Thailand. We now have a prime minister who is, at the very least, taking a few steps in the right direction, and is paying more attention to human rights issues (I acknowledge the disappointing response to the Rohingyha atrocities, and failure to prosecute Tak Bai, & repeal LM but he’s still a major improvement!). I hope you will join me in condemning the criminals who tried to kill him, attacked religious minorities, murdered local residents who were defending their livelihoods, and threatened to explode gas-tankers in residential areas of Bangkok.
I’m sure the ‘red’ poor of Northern Thailand have many genuine grievances which must be addressed as a matter of urgency, I’m sure that many of them are very nice people and that their culture is rich and fascinating, but this does not absolve them from being devotees to a murderous neo-fascist personality cult. Neither, in my view, does it provide moral justification to Mr Nostitz or others to propagandize the “red uprising” (sic). I’m not aware of Mr Nostitz work in regard to the war on drugs, but if, as I assume, he exposed these appalling abuses to the wider world then he is to be commended for doing so. I would not accuse him of “of ignoring Thaksin’s crimes during the war on drugs” but I would question his judgement in supporting a movement funded by, directed by, and devoted to a ‘human rights abuser of the worst kind’.
The crushing of the Red Shirts
Penny
As Nick pointed out in his report, the Thai media were not in a position to produce this sort of report on these events from a red shirt perspective, whether they had a mind to or not, because the red shirts attacked their vehicles and threatened them. You can argue whether the chicken or the egg came first, if you like, but that was the reality over Songkran.
This information source is available to your Thai friends. The website is not blocked in Thailand and parts of it (I am not sure if this article is included yet) are translated into Thai.
Volunteering to fight in Burma
CHARLES F.-
If you wouldn’t mind, i’d like to talk more about this to you. Here is my alternate if you will
[email protected]
I would appreciate the reply.
The survival of Najib and UMNO
In response to Ph O Piette.
It would be useful to clarify what you mean by “very effective in handling her job” .
Was it that her Ministry (MITI) was efficient (will need some objective indicators) and was she the reason that MITI was efficient of was it the fact that in deadling with international competition, MITI had to be efficient to attract FDI.
Was she efficient in policy making? Was she responsible for the policies that Malaysia an attractive place for FDI. Was she responsible for the various policies that improved Malaysia’s technological capacity and capabilities?
Would appreciate further clarification on why you perceive her to be one of the ‘best ministers’?
Thanks
Greg
Volunteering to fight in Burma
[email protected]
I’d be interested in talking to you
Another side of Thai political life
During the recent years of protests many amulets have been issued in direct connection with the protest groups, such as the one Baht-Jatukam Ramathep by the “Saturday Group against Dictatorship” (which at the time straight after the military coup became quite an issue when coup supporters accused the group not to have followed the rituals of the temples in Nakhorn Si Thammarat), the “Pah Yant” of the guards, such as the Naklop Srivichai of the PAD, or the King Taksin amulets by Sae Daeng’s Naclop Prachao Taksin.
The latest i have collected was a wristband given out at the small ceremony for the victims at Samliem Din Daen that was held at April 23rd. Altogether i have collected maybe two or three dozen amulets in direct relation to the street protests.
May i also remind of the bizarre ritual that Sondhi Limthongkul held to remove tacks supposedly planted by Newin at important locations connected to the monarchy, and in which he used sanitary napkins menstruating female PAD protesters as a protection device, as described in an article by Chang Noi: “PAD saves the nation from supernatural attack”.