oh my goodness. this is horrible.
i myself am asian but i HATE how some asians eat cats and dogs
once on tv there was this dog caught in a trap somewhere in korea and there was a wire stuck around its neck it was HORRIBLE. some people found him and saved him..
JUST EAT COW INSTEAD GUYS.
without torture.
by the way, ive never seen asian food with dog/cat in it. so not all asian food is bad kay?
-yuri
wow
this is the most disgusting thing i have ever seen in my whole life. what if someone got you, and tortured you until you died, and then cooked you, and just ATE you??? seriously. they have feelings toooooooooo……..
gosh.i hate dog/cat eaters.
-jeewon
Thomas Bleming #20. Your travel advisory is well taken. Travellers to Thailand should certainly be warned of the LM laws along with the tough drug law but the thread seems in fact to be about a Thai citizen convicted of LM. Perhaps you thought it was about Harry Nicolaides or the Swiss man who who was also convicted of LM in Chiang Mai.
I am not going to comment on the content of Paul Handley’s book. However, I think that those who know Handley can second Amberwaves in saying that work on the book was started long before Thaksin ever came to power. Even if, Thaksin and his foreign lobbyists may have found it useful to extrapolate and manipulate some of the ideas contained in the book for their own purposes the timing was such that they could not possiblly have commissioned it. Anyway, Handley himself does not seem to be a big fan of Thaksin or his authoritarian style of government and nor am I.
The ‘when in Rome…’ argument can also be applied to Thailand in relation to the wider world. If Thailand wants to continue to be accepted as part of the civilized world, it has to find a solution in which its monarchy can be protected and at the same time its laws of protection will not result in such draconian punishments.
Such punishments, and the continued dragging of the monarchy into the political arena by especially the quarters that claim to protect the monarchy, is exactly the reason that such cases have increased – there is a clear correlation.
How many people can be, and will be incarcerated, before a more humane solution for this problem can be found?
This is clearly irrelevant to the issues at hand because the King is something Thai people like and Christianity is something foreigners like. What do the revered institutions of others have to do with anything?
It could be due to Thai’s unsophisticated grasp of the nuances of the English language, in the same way you have nonsensical words as “Thai wisdom” (as in its materialist expressions, e.g. OTOP ), “sufficiency economy” (yeah, right), “people’s alliance for democracy”, or even “thai race” (Adam pen khon thai krap).
Or probably not in this case …….. there is nothing “saksit” in Pizza. It could be the namer was (unknowingly) using the cross as a fashion emblem just like many sasanna phut dara wearing crosses (worse, on their tantalizing cleavage or as earrings a la Madonna).
Or perhaps the joke is really on us? The makers of Holy Pizza are ex-monks who couldn’t make it in their Parian exams or their lifetime commitment to the sangha?
As a sasana kris, perhaps someone should brand a product as “holy condoms” in response to the pope’s stand on condoms. Or perhaps those westerners whose conscience were pricked should also be more circumscribed and avoid using the expression “buddha belly” to refer to their you know what.
BTW, I have partaken of Holy Pizza in Siam Square, and I never even got close to the state of beatification.
Ralph and Frank:
I never stated that you two are idiots. It seems like your feeling are a little hurt which makes me feel that you’re admitting that my belief or opinion are wrong and yours are right. It’s very un-American or undemocratic. I’m sorry for hurting you sensitive SOUL.
Your job is trying to convince me that democracy is good for all and my job is trying to convince you that democracy is not for everyone. Certainly not here at my business. I own a business and I always tell my staff of twelve that there’s not democracy around here. They have no right to speak their mind. They are here to work and not freely criticize others. Once they leave my premise, they are welcome to speak their mind as much they want. Just don’t yell “Fire” in the movie theatre.
Let’s get my belief on a record:
1) I’m assuming everything in book is correct much like when King Bush and Emperor administration went to the UN to tell the world that Saddam had a nuclear and bio weapons. I read a little of it just like when I believed what Colin Powell told the UN before the invasion of Iraq.
2) I feel that Monarchy is best for Thailand. Me and only me.
I not saying, “democracy is bad. Actually I believe democracy is great, but I think it will take 100 years before Thailand could realize such a system. Current Thai political climate is not the right condition for democracy to exist in Thailand.
For example, is democracy good for Iraq? The US is trying to inject democracy into that region causing the imbalance of power costing the US tax payer billions of dollars which may contribute to the downfall of the US.
Not wishing to stoke the fire here, but Jason, I think you would find that over 90% of normal, hard working Thai’s would find your dismissive attitude towards the King very offensive….. Although I think I understand your reasons, could it be possible that you are trying to force your opinions on people that don’t want them? I mean, if somebody puts their hand on a hot stove, they should expect to get burned? Right?
Everybody knows how sensitive the Thai’s are to their King, but I think that’s the way the Thai’s want it, isn’t it? Quite easy to find out, go and talk to normal Thai’s, as I do, you will find virtually all will tell you, they don’t like people insulting their King….
In the UK, there is little respect anymore for authority, yes, people have more personal freedom, but, the streets are dangerous! Thailand is a far more peaceable society overall, because the population are have a better attitude to an authority they adore (the King, not the politicians).
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. The problem for you, is that both sides of your argument are broken.
First of all – I guess you never had basic statistics in high school – correlation is not causation. But perhaps you can prove me wrong by doing a study of how stricter lese majeste laws causes higher “respect for authority” and lower crime rates.
Hello
I had the Seminar in mid-February and sadly failed to get any account of the peoples experience of the WW II in the fringes of Arunachal.There was a paper on the construction of the road based on archival material.Planning to visit the Pangsau Pass region in June during summer break.Hope I come up with something.
Ben Shinglebum #2: Get a grip, please. Exactly what streets are you thinking of? Ratchadamnoen? The streets around Khlong Thoey market right now?
The other (i.e. non-‘mob’) streets of Bkk are not nearly as safe as you might may have been misled to believe. The Bkk Post doesn’t normally report street violence against Thais, just as domestic & sexual violence go unreported unless the incidents are particularly horrific, and therefore ‘newsworthy.’ But this is a very violent country.
The perpetrators of violent theft are often off-duty policemen or military, which further erodes your neat little case, since we should be able to expect servants of the Royal Thai Police Force & armed services to be setting an example. And how about the mobs of students from vocational colleges who arm themselves with iron bars & go out maiming & murdering?
Are you au fait with the situation in the South?
I would be interested to know how the LM law could possibly be contributing to a lessening of any of this.
It is true that the vast majority of Thais do respect their King. That is undeniable. But this stupid anachronistic law has absolutely nothing to do with that. How can you legislate respect?
Of course, you could always try the Central Administrative Court, Case # 889/47. But if they couldn’t/wouldn’t provide me the plaintiff with some details (e.g. the full defence argument by Bowornsak) then I don’t know how much help it will be.
BTW most Thai friends I have suggested this to have shuddered at the thought of doing this as if (for them, at least) it would be committing career suicide).
Clifford,
I think you’ve been watching “The Tudors” too much.
Henry VIII did many good things for the development of England as a nation, not least his contribution to the reformation and Englands flowering seapower. There are plenty other negative examples out there. Leave Great Harry out of it.
The private lives of monarchs, business and political leaders, actors and football players have always been of prurient fascination because their lives develop differently from those of “normal” people and they have greater opportunities and they tend to be “Alpha Males. They also remove those whom they feel don’t live up to the roles they assign them.
Sir James Fraser, Bronislaw Malinowski and lately Stephen Dawkins also teach us that humans have a need for a leader and create deities to worship. Reading not lost on the thai intelligensia.
Michael, while i understand your angst at Stephens comments , the admin here has to allow them to be published, so we can see what we are up against.. The fact he has threatened me only serves to show just the type of administration the Thai people live under. His comments only serve to live as an example of why lèse majesté is indeed a repressive and tyrannical style of government.
freedom of speech allows for all comments even ones we find most despicable.
Is Stephens example of lèse majesté what the Thai people claim to worship ? I do not think so. i think Stephen is confusing fear with adulation.
Thomas Bleming comes up with the usual guff on “When in Rome…”. Been said a million times. But it is interesting the company he sees Thailand keeping as a result of this law!
Thomas Bleming #20: That rather flimsy point has already been made & discussed at length several times on various threads is in this debate. Please do some research before jumping in with such shallow, obvious & pushy comments.
An awful lot of ugly militant-nationalist propaganda being spewed by the local media on both sides of the issue and the powers that be trying to maintain a dignified appearance to the outside world.
The cheap rhetoric to defend the motherland being used by both sides. This is the price Thailand has to pay every few years in order to maintain national unity/security. How ironic that they will bludgeon and stab each other in defence of the motherland.
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
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Lunch?
oh my goodness. this is horrible.
i myself am asian but i HATE how some asians eat cats and dogs
once on tv there was this dog caught in a trap somewhere in korea and there was a wire stuck around its neck it was HORRIBLE. some people found him and saved him..
JUST EAT COW INSTEAD GUYS.
without torture.
by the way, ive never seen asian food with dog/cat in it. so not all asian food is bad kay?
-yuri
wow
this is the most disgusting thing i have ever seen in my whole life. what if someone got you, and tortured you until you died, and then cooked you, and just ATE you??? seriously. they have feelings toooooooooo……..
gosh.i hate dog/cat eaters.
-jeewon
The fate of Suwicha Thakhor
Thomas Bleming #20. Your travel advisory is well taken. Travellers to Thailand should certainly be warned of the LM laws along with the tough drug law but the thread seems in fact to be about a Thai citizen convicted of LM. Perhaps you thought it was about Harry Nicolaides or the Swiss man who who was also convicted of LM in Chiang Mai.
The King Never Smiles?
I am not going to comment on the content of Paul Handley’s book. However, I think that those who know Handley can second Amberwaves in saying that work on the book was started long before Thaksin ever came to power. Even if, Thaksin and his foreign lobbyists may have found it useful to extrapolate and manipulate some of the ideas contained in the book for their own purposes the timing was such that they could not possiblly have commissioned it. Anyway, Handley himself does not seem to be a big fan of Thaksin or his authoritarian style of government and nor am I.
The fate of Suwicha Thakhor
“Thomas Bleming”:
The ‘when in Rome…’ argument can also be applied to Thailand in relation to the wider world. If Thailand wants to continue to be accepted as part of the civilized world, it has to find a solution in which its monarchy can be protected and at the same time its laws of protection will not result in such draconian punishments.
Such punishments, and the continued dragging of the monarchy into the political arena by especially the quarters that claim to protect the monarchy, is exactly the reason that such cases have increased – there is a clear correlation.
How many people can be, and will be incarcerated, before a more humane solution for this problem can be found?
How many years in prison for this?
This is clearly irrelevant to the issues at hand because the King is something Thai people like and Christianity is something foreigners like. What do the revered institutions of others have to do with anything?
How many years in prison for this?
It could be due to Thai’s unsophisticated grasp of the nuances of the English language, in the same way you have nonsensical words as “Thai wisdom” (as in its materialist expressions, e.g. OTOP ), “sufficiency economy” (yeah, right), “people’s alliance for democracy”, or even “thai race” (Adam pen khon thai krap).
Or probably not in this case …….. there is nothing “saksit” in Pizza. It could be the namer was (unknowingly) using the cross as a fashion emblem just like many sasanna phut dara wearing crosses (worse, on their tantalizing cleavage or as earrings a la Madonna).
Or perhaps the joke is really on us? The makers of Holy Pizza are ex-monks who couldn’t make it in their Parian exams or their lifetime commitment to the sangha?
As a sasana kris, perhaps someone should brand a product as “holy condoms” in response to the pope’s stand on condoms. Or perhaps those westerners whose conscience were pricked should also be more circumscribed and avoid using the expression “buddha belly” to refer to their you know what.
BTW, I have partaken of Holy Pizza in Siam Square, and I never even got close to the state of beatification.
The King Never Smiles?
Ralph and Frank:
I never stated that you two are idiots. It seems like your feeling are a little hurt which makes me feel that you’re admitting that my belief or opinion are wrong and yours are right. It’s very un-American or undemocratic. I’m sorry for hurting you sensitive SOUL.
Your job is trying to convince me that democracy is good for all and my job is trying to convince you that democracy is not for everyone. Certainly not here at my business. I own a business and I always tell my staff of twelve that there’s not democracy around here. They have no right to speak their mind. They are here to work and not freely criticize others. Once they leave my premise, they are welcome to speak their mind as much they want. Just don’t yell “Fire” in the movie theatre.
Let’s get my belief on a record:
1) I’m assuming everything in book is correct much like when King Bush and Emperor administration went to the UN to tell the world that Saddam had a nuclear and bio weapons. I read a little of it just like when I believed what Colin Powell told the UN before the invasion of Iraq.
2) I feel that Monarchy is best for Thailand. Me and only me.
I not saying, “democracy is bad. Actually I believe democracy is great, but I think it will take 100 years before Thailand could realize such a system. Current Thai political climate is not the right condition for democracy to exist in Thailand.
For example, is democracy good for Iraq? The US is trying to inject democracy into that region causing the imbalance of power costing the US tax payer billions of dollars which may contribute to the downfall of the US.
On lèse majesté
Not wishing to stoke the fire here, but Jason, I think you would find that over 90% of normal, hard working Thai’s would find your dismissive attitude towards the King very offensive….. Although I think I understand your reasons, could it be possible that you are trying to force your opinions on people that don’t want them? I mean, if somebody puts their hand on a hot stove, they should expect to get burned? Right?
Everybody knows how sensitive the Thai’s are to their King, but I think that’s the way the Thai’s want it, isn’t it? Quite easy to find out, go and talk to normal Thai’s, as I do, you will find virtually all will tell you, they don’t like people insulting their King….
How many years in prison for this?
It works! I want one!
Lese majeste in Khon Kaen?
In the UK, there is little respect anymore for authority, yes, people have more personal freedom, but, the streets are dangerous! Thailand is a far more peaceable society overall, because the population are have a better attitude to an authority they adore (the King, not the politicians).
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. The problem for you, is that both sides of your argument are broken.
First of all – I guess you never had basic statistics in high school – correlation is not causation. But perhaps you can prove me wrong by doing a study of how stricter lese majeste laws causes higher “respect for authority” and lower crime rates.
But I wouldn’t bother if I were you, as the facts and the data are not on your side. The shows that Thailand is actually one of the most crime-ridden countries on the planet. Even with some of the harshest lese majeste laws in the land, Thailand still remains a dangerous place. So can you explain how making the laws even harsher will somehow stop Thailand’s crime problem and create a “peaceable” society?
The Stilwell Road
Hello
I had the Seminar in mid-February and sadly failed to get any account of the peoples experience of the WW II in the fringes of Arunachal.There was a paper on the construction of the road based on archival material.Planning to visit the Pangsau Pass region in June during summer break.Hope I come up with something.
Lese majeste in Khon Kaen?
Ben Shinglebum #2: Get a grip, please. Exactly what streets are you thinking of? Ratchadamnoen? The streets around Khlong Thoey market right now?
The other (i.e. non-‘mob’) streets of Bkk are not nearly as safe as you might may have been misled to believe. The Bkk Post doesn’t normally report street violence against Thais, just as domestic & sexual violence go unreported unless the incidents are particularly horrific, and therefore ‘newsworthy.’ But this is a very violent country.
The perpetrators of violent theft are often off-duty policemen or military, which further erodes your neat little case, since we should be able to expect servants of the Royal Thai Police Force & armed services to be setting an example. And how about the mobs of students from vocational colleges who arm themselves with iron bars & go out maiming & murdering?
Are you au fait with the situation in the South?
I would be interested to know how the LM law could possibly be contributing to a lessening of any of this.
It is true that the vast majority of Thais do respect their King. That is undeniable. But this stupid anachronistic law has absolutely nothing to do with that. How can you legislate respect?
Time for academic frankness
Of course, you could always try the Central Administrative Court, Case # 889/47. But if they couldn’t/wouldn’t provide me the plaintiff with some details (e.g. the full defence argument by Bowornsak) then I don’t know how much help it will be.
BTW most Thai friends I have suggested this to have shuddered at the thought of doing this as if (for them, at least) it would be committing career suicide).
The King Never Smiles?
Clifford,
I think you’ve been watching “The Tudors” too much.
Henry VIII did many good things for the development of England as a nation, not least his contribution to the reformation and Englands flowering seapower. There are plenty other negative examples out there. Leave Great Harry out of it.
The private lives of monarchs, business and political leaders, actors and football players have always been of prurient fascination because their lives develop differently from those of “normal” people and they have greater opportunities and they tend to be “Alpha Males. They also remove those whom they feel don’t live up to the roles they assign them.
Sir James Fraser, Bronislaw Malinowski and lately Stephen Dawkins also teach us that humans have a need for a leader and create deities to worship. Reading not lost on the thai intelligensia.
On lèse majesté
Michael, while i understand your angst at Stephens comments , the admin here has to allow them to be published, so we can see what we are up against.. The fact he has threatened me only serves to show just the type of administration the Thai people live under. His comments only serve to live as an example of why lèse majesté is indeed a repressive and tyrannical style of government.
freedom of speech allows for all comments even ones we find most despicable.
Is Stephens example of lèse majesté what the Thai people claim to worship ? I do not think so. i think Stephen is confusing fear with adulation.
How many years in prison for this?
Deliciousness….
right next to Holiness.
Holy Pizza
P.S. I think the price is a little bit expensive.
The King Never Smiles?
Wiphu: I was right. You don’t care to speak from a position of knowledge. Hence name-calling is the best you can do.
The fate of Suwicha Thakhor
Thomas Bleming comes up with the usual guff on “When in Rome…”. Been said a million times. But it is interesting the company he sees Thailand keeping as a result of this law!
The fate of Suwicha Thakhor
Thomas Bleming #20: That rather flimsy point has already been made & discussed at length several times on various threads is in this debate. Please do some research before jumping in with such shallow, obvious & pushy comments.
Lese majeste in Khon Kaen?
An awful lot of ugly militant-nationalist propaganda being spewed by the local media on both sides of the issue and the powers that be trying to maintain a dignified appearance to the outside world.
The cheap rhetoric to defend the motherland being used by both sides. This is the price Thailand has to pay every few years in order to maintain national unity/security. How ironic that they will bludgeon and stab each other in defence of the motherland.
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.