While I sympathize with KhunSuwicha on clearly an over-harsh punishment, the case must be seen in context with the current Red-Yellow Civil War of the past 2-3 years that has polarize Thai society like never before.
To separate the higher frequency of Les Majeste cases over this recent period from the extreme politics reads as selective, bias and prejudiced. It is like describing the cooked fish on the plate but being ignorant of the sea (and the other big and small fishes) it came from. Republican and related rhetoric – especially through the internet – such as AjarnGile’s, or foriegn-based critical of the Thai monarchy has only served to energized and further polarize the Thai conservatives (and we have witnessed a lot of that anonymous anger in this site who might be Australian-educated sons and daughters of well-connected elites) which, I argue, is and will be doing much more harm than good for the “small fish” like KhunSuwicha (or any chances for the needed reform of LM laws for that matter).
On that note, Nich’s point on the clearly unequal application of the law is apt and I strongly agree with the comment: “Nonetheless this law provides a window into the priorities and prejudices of the elite as they go about the business of maintaining control.”
Arguably the most powerful elite of them all, even in exile, is PMThaksin who is also the person who seem to have flirted with Les Majeste directly and indirectly most. Consistent with Nich’s observation, PMThaksin is also the most well connected of them all whether it is the constant refusal by the police (where he maintains significant influence at all levels) to prosecute to well known fact that elites loyal to him are also also embedded in high places within the palace. Who else can get away lambasting the whole Privy Council in public – and calling for their dismissal when only HMK has that legal right to do so!? The police have already come out to say that PMThaksin’s speech is above board! Besides, PMThaksin, a convicted felon, has today formally sued a Privy Councilor for accusing him of disloyalty!!!
On the contrary, “small fish” like Da Thorpedo, encouraged by PMThaksin’s rhetoric, or Suwicha (and potentially many others, we’ll see post-Red “Final Battle”) here gets speedily prosecuted and trialed. They were most likely driven and inspired by the elites flirtations with Les Majeste, forgetting that the law does not apply equally.
It is this inequality that must be seriously addressed at a societal level and an ideal place to start is to see a corrupt former PM go to jail for his crimes through due process. Ofcourse a group of elite, possibly former partners in corruption, were reluctant to jail one of their own.
As I have always said, LM is the least of Thailand’s problems at this moment and does not feature in most Thai’s concerns as revealed in another ABAC poll conducted in 18 provinces. The findings were revealed today:
For me, LM is an issue that will eventually take care of itself. In a time where political power is increasingly distributed amongst diverse stakeholders, future generations of the monarchy will not have the same kind of role in mitigating conflicts amongst ambitious elites. In that future, Les Majeste will not be abused as it has been by warring elites – and it is hoped, political conflicts can be resolved in parliament complemented with robust checks and balances and the rule of law…
Let’s see what shape Thailand comes out off the 8th-10th April. I expect that there will be a bigger crowd than the 26th – and if there are no violence (and I hope and pray that they are none), the conflict will still persist for months – until closer to the date when the verdict to PMThaksin’s assets seizure case is read when they’ll be more drama. Much of the conflicts could subside when the Democrats call the next election – early next year could be to their (and Phumjai Thai’s) advantage, if the GFC does not bite very hard and is managed well…
@ another anonymous coward #35
nobody tells YOU to love (you are perhaps incapable of loving).
we kindly ask you to ‘respect’ (but you are perhaps incapable?)
the REAL criminal is still fugitive and thousands have died.
that’s our concern, not yours or someones crocodile tears……
@jason, the merciless hunter & cursed for his breaking promises:
#33 quote:
“The tears of an oprressed Thai are in no way the same
as self pity tears that the dictators of Thailand will cry,
when they are held to account by the Thai people.”
YOU will be held to account by the thai people
as soon as you set foot here
& will cry your self pity tears as others did before you.
but do not say you were not warned:
“do not provoke the anger of the thai majority!”
it seems so easy to insult others from some safe havens.
we call that ‘cheap talking’
& oppression of the believes of the thai majority.
do YOU want to become the dictator of thailand?
if not, “leave them kids alone!”
It seems to me what you are angling for here is that the establishment should consider moral principles to maintain power instead of obvious oppression. That it looks bad for them according to us is hardly progression for civil liberties, and dare I say the ‘state’ of human rights in Thailand – but more plays into the constructs of Lese Majeste by using shame as the instrument to spare Suwicha Thakor of his needlessly tragic sentence for the elites to save face. But it is ultimately shame, through the necessity of the elite saving face that has landed Suwicha Thakor in this position and I don’t feel it is logical to proceed with shame to dig him out.
Attacking the monarchy or those privy with shame arguments squared towards the vanity of upholding moral principle will not bring about any lasting change, but instead surely prolongs the existing system which is manipulated by those in the upper echelons.
Shame must be countered with something noble.
I don’t have any alternative solutions or suggestions for what is noble. But I would have thought that those in the upper echelon would have more of an idea about that… Indeed, the silence is deafening.
Charrurat: When you say: ” First, we have Mr. Samak and then Mr. Somchai as PM. During this period, I don’t see anyone asking for the real DEMOCRACY.”
I think perhaps you are too narrowly focused on one side. The PAD and its backers were asking very strongly for what they called real democracy. Certainly you saw that. There were endless words spoken in 2007 and 2008 about “Thai-style democracy.”
As to other people, I believe that in their view, they had nothing to ask for because they thought they already had it, an elected government.
But these (anti-PAD) people also were seeking more real democracy, in their different way of looking at it, in trying to amend the 2007 constitution (which among other things rolled back the idea of an all elected senate, as I am sure you know.)
Whether all of them were sincere or actually had a hidden agenda is another question, which could also be applied to the PAD.
So to a great extent, I’m afraid the answer to your question: “Do you think there would be a call for the real democracy if PT was the government?” would depend upon who is defining real democracy and how.
I’m sure many people will continue to work toward what they believe in. But that may not be what you or I believe in.
This website is filled with comments from many Thai people saying how much they love the King. But you are one of the very few people who says you love the Monarchy, the entire system of hereditary authoritarian rule. The key word there, and the key concept in most monarchies, is “hereditary.” That means nobody can choose the next King except the current King.
OK, you say you love the Monarchy. What would you do, what would you say, if the next King turns out to be a corrupt person with low morals, who wants lots of women and who loves the rich life? In other words, would you still love the Monarchy with a king like Henry the Eighth? What would you do to protect Thailand from someone like Henry the Eighth?
I suspect Khun Wihphu agrees with Kukrit’s claim, namely, that a Thai king could never be bad because he is Thai (and all Thais are essentially good) and he is Buddhist (and all Buddhists are essentially moral). This concept of Thainess, despite its obvious immaturity, still seems to be the basis of a lot of comments on this website, Khun Wihphu’s in particular.
The composition of the current privy council has made it difficult to expect that the pardon will likely be approved for ordinary Thai. We have to realize that the current privy council was individually chosen by Phumipon Adulyadet himself. The main objective of the privy council is to maximize the monarchy institution interests.
Today General Prem Tinsulanond, paid respect to the statue of the former privy council Sanya Thammasak at Thammasart university, Rangsit branch. It is important to know that Sanya Thammasak, a law professor, visited the scene of Ananda Mahidol’s death. Being a widow, and Phumipon was still only 19 years old, so the king’s mother requested Sanya Thammasak to visit the scene and asked for his advice. The Lese Majeste Law was then promulgated and strictly enforced ever since.
Perhaps Wihphu was four days’ late with his April Fool’s comment, since only a fool would so write seriously. A joke or total ignorance – I would prefer to believe the latter…
There was a church historian that didn’t win a lot of friends when he told a group of Baptist missionaries in Thailand that he had examined their organization’s correspondence and had found that the term “Land Rover” had appeared more often than the term “Jesus Christ”.
Stephen >>> i am sorryto say this but your comments here are so pathetic and arrogants , and don’t tell me that i must love the king as well if i am thai , there are plenty of real criminals out there where the police force should be act ,the real act not innocent people,no one die for being insult.
Thank you for the clarification. I hope you had a good trip and are well rested.
Now to turn from my previous snarky Yahoo-side to my more rational, detached Houyhnhnm-side, I would like to ask you and the other commentors on this post as to how Thailand’s LM laws are related to global reactions to what I perceive to be the globalization of “Western” concepts of free speech via media such as the Internet and satellite tv. Indeed, currently the Organization of the Islamic Conference, of which Thailand is an observer, is spearheading a campaign to legislate “defamation of religion” as a crime in international law.
The impetus of this campaign, of course, was the recent Mohammed cartoon controversy, among other events. In the past, said cartoons would not have even been known outside of the Dutch-speaking world; now, the images can be broadcast to Pakistan at the speed of light. (Hell, it took 700 years for the Muslim world to learn the “offensive” frescos of the San Petronio Basilica.) Likewise, the LM/Youtube controversy stems from the same clash of civilizations. Can a society use technologies like the Internet without being dragged, kicking and screaming, into Western-style concepts of free speech and expression? If not, do countries like Thailand have the right to impose their speech taboos upon the greater world? (Remember, Thailand has had the hubris to assume world-wide jurisdiction for their LM laws.) Will cultures like the greater Islamic world, cooperate with countries like Thailand, China, or Cuba to fight the “Axis of Blasphemy” (i.e. The Anglosphere and Western Europe?)
Thanks for your friendly suggestion amberwaves. I’ll keep that in mind from now on.
For your question: Would Abhisit be prime minister today if the army hadn’t staged the September 2006 coup?
What I could tell you is that only God knows, if you believe in God, as we cannot alter what’s already happened.
Yes, principally, military intervention in politics is simply unacceptable. Even I agree with this basic principle. But, to be honest, it is such a relief that the coup did take place at that time, considering the situation here. I know saying something like that is really stupid. But let me ask you this: Do you think that the army should wait until some people get killed–it’s really likely that some people would get killed?
Regarding Khun Abhisit’s path to power, I just need “proof” for the claim that –put it in your words– his path to the top was facilitated by extra-legal means – starting with the 2006 coup, and in a more immediate sense, the illegal actions of the PAD and the continuing interference of the military in the political process, including the pressure applied by Gen. Anupong – well-reported by the press – in the days immediately prior to the parliamentary vote to seat Abhisit.
When I say “proof”, I mean something touchable, something like documents, tape or VDO records of meetings, etc., not just what the press reports–because we cannot know if the report is true– or what we have deduced ourselves from what we’ve heard.
I don’t deny the fact that there are the 2006 coup and the illegal actions of the PAD. But for the claim “the continuing interference of the military in the political process, including the pressure applied by Gen. Anupong – well-reported by the press – in the days immediately prior to the parliamentary vote to seat Abhisit”, I cannot accept it.
Let me remind you something. There was a general election in December 2007, remember? First, we have Mr. Samak and then Mr. Somchai as PM. During this period, I don’t see anyone asking for the real DEMOCRACY. But just as Khun Abhisit’s come into the power, there comes a call for real DEMOCRACY. I believe I see a broken link on the line connecting the coup and Abhisit’s rise to power.
Let me ask you one last question, just for now: Do you think there would be a call for the real democracy if PT was the government?
What’s the relationship between/relevance of these examples?
Most readers here should need no introduction to Oct. 6. Why not just get to your point(s)?
Wiphu: Thanks for that comment. You obviously have no knowledge of the topic. Why not read something on the topic before stating such silly things. Discussion based on no knowledge of the topic – say democratization – is a waste of time. There’s been tons of stuff published on this topic, but my guess would be that you don’t care.
I doubt that he can expect to be recommended for a royal pardon anytime soon. The authorities expect Thais to know better and their incarceration causes far less outcry overseas than that of foreign LM convicts.
Charrurat #92. Yes, I too am looking forward to the new episode of the Thaksin soap opera to be set in the Cayman Islands. However, the Caymans must be bracing themselves for the kind of drubbing that the British Virgin Islands, previously never mentioned in the Thai press, got over the Ample Rich affair. Thaksin’s Caymans assets, if he has any, could be in the form of assets owned by a Caymans corporation deposited elsewhere, a deposit in a Caymans bank, units in a real or fake hedge fund incorporated in the Caymans but invested elsewhere, including perhaps Thailand like the fake Labuan funds invested in SC Assets. Prepare yourselves for a lot of gobbledygook from financially illiterate Thai politicians and reporters. Even the Democrat bloodhounds, Korn and Korbsak, appeared amazingly ignorant when they went after Ample Rich. Perhaps it is dangerous for financially savvy Thai politicians to appear too knowledgable about tax havens.
“One wonders if that’s the real reason the article was written: to put into motion some mechanism to get this lese majeste genie back into the bottle before it upends the institution it’s supposed to be defending.”
I guess so. After all, Ajarn Borwornsak is an important member of the royalist circles. And he took care to derive his suggestion from a long quote of a speech by the king.
Thus, I guess that this piece was written with a purpose (BU is not a private public intellectual, after all), and it indicates some internal discussions in the relevant circles, just as Dej Bunnag had pointed out earlier that palace circles were aware of the problems of lese majeste.
In this context, one might mention that Chermsak is back on TV, and his first act was to have Suchit and Visit praise the monarchy. One or two days later, Pramual Rujanaseri (of “Royal Powers” fame) and a privy councilor were also on TV doing the same. Different factions of royalists seem to be battling it out…
The tears of an oprressed Thai are in no way the same as self pity tears that the dictators of Thailand will cry, when they are held to account by the Thai people. The tears cried by those found guilty under lèse majesté laws, are Thailand bleeding, bleeding internally until eventually she ruptures in outright indignation.
Those whom present and enforce lèse majesté , falsely presenting le majeste as a valid law or a vital part of a supposed democracy , which Thailand certainly is not, will be one day held to account, for repressing the Thai people into blind obediance.
Only when you see the tears cried by the dud king and his enforcers will you know tears of self pity Stephen. Until then i suggest yopu open your eyes to the suffering caused by your supposed divine king and his supporters, in their attempts to prop up what can only ever be seen as a repressive regime.
Being Thai and growing up in the US.
I believe Democracy is not for everyone (country).
Currently, there is just too much democracy in Thailand.
Monarchy is best system for Thailand as Communism is good for China. Socialism is good for Europe. Thailand should be under Monarchy system where the king rule like many century ago. To understand what I meant, we have to sit down for many hours for this discussion. You have to understand the culture and the people.
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Suwicha Thakor and lese majeste
While I sympathize with KhunSuwicha on clearly an over-harsh punishment, the case must be seen in context with the current Red-Yellow Civil War of the past 2-3 years that has polarize Thai society like never before.
To separate the higher frequency of Les Majeste cases over this recent period from the extreme politics reads as selective, bias and prejudiced. It is like describing the cooked fish on the plate but being ignorant of the sea (and the other big and small fishes) it came from. Republican and related rhetoric – especially through the internet – such as AjarnGile’s, or foriegn-based critical of the Thai monarchy has only served to energized and further polarize the Thai conservatives (and we have witnessed a lot of that anonymous anger in this site who might be Australian-educated sons and daughters of well-connected elites) which, I argue, is and will be doing much more harm than good for the “small fish” like KhunSuwicha (or any chances for the needed reform of LM laws for that matter).
On that note, Nich’s point on the clearly unequal application of the law is apt and I strongly agree with the comment: “Nonetheless this law provides a window into the priorities and prejudices of the elite as they go about the business of maintaining control.”
Arguably the most powerful elite of them all, even in exile, is PMThaksin who is also the person who seem to have flirted with Les Majeste directly and indirectly most. Consistent with Nich’s observation, PMThaksin is also the most well connected of them all whether it is the constant refusal by the police (where he maintains significant influence at all levels) to prosecute to well known fact that elites loyal to him are also also embedded in high places within the palace. Who else can get away lambasting the whole Privy Council in public – and calling for their dismissal when only HMK has that legal right to do so!? The police have already come out to say that PMThaksin’s speech is above board! Besides, PMThaksin, a convicted felon, has today formally sued a Privy Councilor for accusing him of disloyalty!!!
On the contrary, “small fish” like Da Thorpedo, encouraged by PMThaksin’s rhetoric, or Suwicha (and potentially many others, we’ll see post-Red “Final Battle”) here gets speedily prosecuted and trialed. They were most likely driven and inspired by the elites flirtations with Les Majeste, forgetting that the law does not apply equally.
It is this inequality that must be seriously addressed at a societal level and an ideal place to start is to see a corrupt former PM go to jail for his crimes through due process. Ofcourse a group of elite, possibly former partners in corruption, were reluctant to jail one of their own.
As I have always said, LM is the least of Thailand’s problems at this moment and does not feature in most Thai’s concerns as revealed in another ABAC poll conducted in 18 provinces. The findings were revealed today:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/139660/74-sick-of-politics-abac-poll
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1238908473&grpid=01&catid=01
For me, LM is an issue that will eventually take care of itself. In a time where political power is increasingly distributed amongst diverse stakeholders, future generations of the monarchy will not have the same kind of role in mitigating conflicts amongst ambitious elites. In that future, Les Majeste will not be abused as it has been by warring elites – and it is hoped, political conflicts can be resolved in parliament complemented with robust checks and balances and the rule of law…
Let’s see what shape Thailand comes out off the 8th-10th April. I expect that there will be a bigger crowd than the 26th – and if there are no violence (and I hope and pray that they are none), the conflict will still persist for months – until closer to the date when the verdict to PMThaksin’s assets seizure case is read when they’ll be more drama. Much of the conflicts could subside when the Democrats call the next election – early next year could be to their (and Phumjai Thai’s) advantage, if the GFC does not bite very hard and is managed well…
On lèse majesté
@ another anonymous coward #35
nobody tells YOU to love (you are perhaps incapable of loving).
we kindly ask you to ‘respect’ (but you are perhaps incapable?)
the REAL criminal is still fugitive and thousands have died.
that’s our concern, not yours or someones crocodile tears……
@jason, the merciless hunter & cursed for his breaking promises:
#33 quote:
“The tears of an oprressed Thai are in no way the same
as self pity tears that the dictators of Thailand will cry,
when they are held to account by the Thai people.”
YOU will be held to account by the thai people
as soon as you set foot here
& will cry your self pity tears as others did before you.
but do not say you were not warned:
“do not provoke the anger of the thai majority!”
it seems so easy to insult others from some safe havens.
we call that ‘cheap talking’
& oppression of the believes of the thai majority.
do YOU want to become the dictator of thailand?
if not, “leave them kids alone!”
Suwicha Thakor and lese majeste
It seems to me what you are angling for here is that the establishment should consider moral principles to maintain power instead of obvious oppression. That it looks bad for them according to us is hardly progression for civil liberties, and dare I say the ‘state’ of human rights in Thailand – but more plays into the constructs of Lese Majeste by using shame as the instrument to spare Suwicha Thakor of his needlessly tragic sentence for the elites to save face. But it is ultimately shame, through the necessity of the elite saving face that has landed Suwicha Thakor in this position and I don’t feel it is logical to proceed with shame to dig him out.
Attacking the monarchy or those privy with shame arguments squared towards the vanity of upholding moral principle will not bring about any lasting change, but instead surely prolongs the existing system which is manipulated by those in the upper echelons.
Shame must be countered with something noble.
I don’t have any alternative solutions or suggestions for what is noble. But I would have thought that those in the upper echelon would have more of an idea about that… Indeed, the silence is deafening.
Full text of Abhisit speech in Oxford
Charrurat: When you say: ” First, we have Mr. Samak and then Mr. Somchai as PM. During this period, I don’t see anyone asking for the real DEMOCRACY.”
I think perhaps you are too narrowly focused on one side. The PAD and its backers were asking very strongly for what they called real democracy. Certainly you saw that. There were endless words spoken in 2007 and 2008 about “Thai-style democracy.”
As to other people, I believe that in their view, they had nothing to ask for because they thought they already had it, an elected government.
But these (anti-PAD) people also were seeking more real democracy, in their different way of looking at it, in trying to amend the 2007 constitution (which among other things rolled back the idea of an all elected senate, as I am sure you know.)
Whether all of them were sincere or actually had a hidden agenda is another question, which could also be applied to the PAD.
So to a great extent, I’m afraid the answer to your question: “Do you think there would be a call for the real democracy if PT was the government?” would depend upon who is defining real democracy and how.
I’m sure many people will continue to work toward what they believe in. But that may not be what you or I believe in.
The King Never Smiles?
A question for Wihphu:
This website is filled with comments from many Thai people saying how much they love the King. But you are one of the very few people who says you love the Monarchy, the entire system of hereditary authoritarian rule. The key word there, and the key concept in most monarchies, is “hereditary.” That means nobody can choose the next King except the current King.
OK, you say you love the Monarchy. What would you do, what would you say, if the next King turns out to be a corrupt person with low morals, who wants lots of women and who loves the rich life? In other words, would you still love the Monarchy with a king like Henry the Eighth? What would you do to protect Thailand from someone like Henry the Eighth?
I suspect Khun Wihphu agrees with Kukrit’s claim, namely, that a Thai king could never be bad because he is Thai (and all Thais are essentially good) and he is Buddhist (and all Buddhists are essentially moral). This concept of Thainess, despite its obvious immaturity, still seems to be the basis of a lot of comments on this website, Khun Wihphu’s in particular.
Kavi on Suwicha’s “quagmire”
The composition of the current privy council has made it difficult to expect that the pardon will likely be approved for ordinary Thai. We have to realize that the current privy council was individually chosen by Phumipon Adulyadet himself. The main objective of the privy council is to maximize the monarchy institution interests.
Today General Prem Tinsulanond, paid respect to the statue of the former privy council Sanya Thammasak at Thammasart university, Rangsit branch. It is important to know that Sanya Thammasak, a law professor, visited the scene of Ananda Mahidol’s death. Being a widow, and Phumipon was still only 19 years old, so the king’s mother requested Sanya Thammasak to visit the scene and asked for his advice. The Lese Majeste Law was then promulgated and strictly enforced ever since.
The King Never Smiles?
Perhaps Wihphu was four days’ late with his April Fool’s comment, since only a fool would so write seriously. A joke or total ignorance – I would prefer to believe the latter…
“One missionary plus one Ford equals three missionaries”
There was a church historian that didn’t win a lot of friends when he told a group of Baptist missionaries in Thailand that he had examined their organization’s correspondence and had found that the term “Land Rover” had appeared more often than the term “Jesus Christ”.
On lèse majesté
Stephen >>> i am sorryto say this but your comments here are so pathetic and arrogants , and don’t tell me that i must love the king as well if i am thai , there are plenty of real criminals out there where the police force should be act ,the real act not innocent people,no one die for being insult.
The fate of Suwicha Thakhor
re: Andrew
Thank you for the clarification. I hope you had a good trip and are well rested.
Now to turn from my previous snarky Yahoo-side to my more rational, detached Houyhnhnm-side, I would like to ask you and the other commentors on this post as to how Thailand’s LM laws are related to global reactions to what I perceive to be the globalization of “Western” concepts of free speech via media such as the Internet and satellite tv. Indeed, currently the Organization of the Islamic Conference, of which Thailand is an observer, is spearheading a campaign to legislate “defamation of religion” as a crime in international law.
The impetus of this campaign, of course, was the recent Mohammed cartoon controversy, among other events. In the past, said cartoons would not have even been known outside of the Dutch-speaking world; now, the images can be broadcast to Pakistan at the speed of light. (Hell, it took 700 years for the Muslim world to learn the “offensive” frescos of the San Petronio Basilica.) Likewise, the LM/Youtube controversy stems from the same clash of civilizations. Can a society use technologies like the Internet without being dragged, kicking and screaming, into Western-style concepts of free speech and expression? If not, do countries like Thailand have the right to impose their speech taboos upon the greater world? (Remember, Thailand has had the hubris to assume world-wide jurisdiction for their LM laws.) Will cultures like the greater Islamic world, cooperate with countries like Thailand, China, or Cuba to fight the “Axis of Blasphemy” (i.e. The Anglosphere and Western Europe?)
Full text of Abhisit speech in Oxford
Thanks for your friendly suggestion amberwaves. I’ll keep that in mind from now on.
For your question: Would Abhisit be prime minister today if the army hadn’t staged the September 2006 coup?
What I could tell you is that only God knows, if you believe in God, as we cannot alter what’s already happened.
Yes, principally, military intervention in politics is simply unacceptable. Even I agree with this basic principle. But, to be honest, it is such a relief that the coup did take place at that time, considering the situation here. I know saying something like that is really stupid. But let me ask you this: Do you think that the army should wait until some people get killed–it’s really likely that some people would get killed?
Regarding Khun Abhisit’s path to power, I just need “proof” for the claim that –put it in your words– his path to the top was facilitated by extra-legal means – starting with the 2006 coup, and in a more immediate sense, the illegal actions of the PAD and the continuing interference of the military in the political process, including the pressure applied by Gen. Anupong – well-reported by the press – in the days immediately prior to the parliamentary vote to seat Abhisit.
When I say “proof”, I mean something touchable, something like documents, tape or VDO records of meetings, etc., not just what the press reports–because we cannot know if the report is true– or what we have deduced ourselves from what we’ve heard.
I don’t deny the fact that there are the 2006 coup and the illegal actions of the PAD. But for the claim “the continuing interference of the military in the political process, including the pressure applied by Gen. Anupong – well-reported by the press – in the days immediately prior to the parliamentary vote to seat Abhisit”, I cannot accept it.
Let me remind you something. There was a general election in December 2007, remember? First, we have Mr. Samak and then Mr. Somchai as PM. During this period, I don’t see anyone asking for the real DEMOCRACY. But just as Khun Abhisit’s come into the power, there comes a call for real DEMOCRACY. I believe I see a broken link on the line connecting the coup and Abhisit’s rise to power.
Let me ask you one last question, just for now: Do you think there would be a call for the real democracy if PT was the government?
Student massacres
What’s the relationship between/relevance of these examples?
Most readers here should need no introduction to Oct. 6. Why not just get to your point(s)?
The King Never Smiles?
Wiphu: Thanks for that comment. You obviously have no knowledge of the topic. Why not read something on the topic before stating such silly things. Discussion based on no knowledge of the topic – say democratization – is a waste of time. There’s been tons of stuff published on this topic, but my guess would be that you don’t care.
An international disgrace
I doubt that he can expect to be recommended for a royal pardon anytime soon. The authorities expect Thais to know better and their incarceration causes far less outcry overseas than that of foreign LM convicts.
UDD – where to?
Khamala #48. Where can we find details of the new Thai socialist party? I saw it announced as a tiny paragraph in the press.
901, royal politics and Thaksin Shinawatra
Charrurat #92. Yes, I too am looking forward to the new episode of the Thaksin soap opera to be set in the Cayman Islands. However, the Caymans must be bracing themselves for the kind of drubbing that the British Virgin Islands, previously never mentioned in the Thai press, got over the Ample Rich affair. Thaksin’s Caymans assets, if he has any, could be in the form of assets owned by a Caymans corporation deposited elsewhere, a deposit in a Caymans bank, units in a real or fake hedge fund incorporated in the Caymans but invested elsewhere, including perhaps Thailand like the fake Labuan funds invested in SC Assets. Prepare yourselves for a lot of gobbledygook from financially illiterate Thai politicians and reporters. Even the Democrat bloodhounds, Korn and Korbsak, appeared amazingly ignorant when they went after Ample Rich. Perhaps it is dangerous for financially savvy Thai politicians to appear too knowledgable about tax havens.
On lèse majesté
Dantampa:
“One wonders if that’s the real reason the article was written: to put into motion some mechanism to get this lese majeste genie back into the bottle before it upends the institution it’s supposed to be defending.”
I guess so. After all, Ajarn Borwornsak is an important member of the royalist circles. And he took care to derive his suggestion from a long quote of a speech by the king.
Thus, I guess that this piece was written with a purpose (BU is not a private public intellectual, after all), and it indicates some internal discussions in the relevant circles, just as Dej Bunnag had pointed out earlier that palace circles were aware of the problems of lese majeste.
In this context, one might mention that Chermsak is back on TV, and his first act was to have Suchit and Visit praise the monarchy. One or two days later, Pramual Rujanaseri (of “Royal Powers” fame) and a privy councilor were also on TV doing the same. Different factions of royalists seem to be battling it out…
On lèse majesté
The tears of an oprressed Thai are in no way the same as self pity tears that the dictators of Thailand will cry, when they are held to account by the Thai people. The tears cried by those found guilty under lèse majesté laws, are Thailand bleeding, bleeding internally until eventually she ruptures in outright indignation.
Those whom present and enforce lèse majesté , falsely presenting le majeste as a valid law or a vital part of a supposed democracy , which Thailand certainly is not, will be one day held to account, for repressing the Thai people into blind obediance.
Only when you see the tears cried by the dud king and his enforcers will you know tears of self pity Stephen. Until then i suggest yopu open your eyes to the suffering caused by your supposed divine king and his supporters, in their attempts to prop up what can only ever be seen as a repressive regime.
The King Never Smiles?
Being Thai and growing up in the US.
I believe Democracy is not for everyone (country).
Currently, there is just too much democracy in Thailand.
Monarchy is best system for Thailand as Communism is good for China. Socialism is good for Europe. Thailand should be under Monarchy system where the king rule like many century ago. To understand what I meant, we have to sit down for many hours for this discussion. You have to understand the culture and the people.
The fate of Suwicha Thakhor
seems it is ok for the father of tree >>>>> sorry meant to write father of three , apologise for my misspelling.