I studied at the faculty of political science, Chulalongkorn. There were so many monarchy secret agents at the university ranging from building cleaners to professors. When I watch the NAZI documentary film, I recognize the similarity. The degree of control is beyond what can be described in words.
The famous 1972 ‘open letter’ of Puey to Thanom (‘From Nai Khem Yen Ying to Village Chief Thamnu Kiatkong’) urging the latter to return to parliamentary politics, has also to be seen in the context of the time. It’s not that Puey was ‘against militarty dictatorship’ as such, otherwise he wouldn’t have worked for Sarit for five or six years throughout the latter’s reign, and had a quite cordial relations with Thanom. But it is the disappointment with the 1971 coup that prompted him to write the letter. In this, Puey wasn’t exceptional. Many, many intellectuals including many students activists had been politicized (even radicalized) because of that coup – a situation not dissimilar to the 2006 coup.
The ‘soft feeling ‘ by leading intellectuals towards military dictatorship that seemes to promise a ‘cleaner’ politics than the hatred, dirty politicians is defenitely not the monopoly of our present time. Puey’s case wasn’t unique.
I don’t want to get involved in personal / family matters of other people, but what Ji says about Puey and the military government, which is part of public history, is certainly not true: It wasn’t that he was supporting the military dictatorship. So he worked as a government official, but never accepted any political appointment.
Puey was one of the intellectuals who supported Sarit against Phibun-Phao. In fact most Thai intellectuals at the time, including Jit Phumisak, did too. Understanding this is important for the understanding of that period. Moreover, the parallel with recents event is very striking. Just as in the 2500 period when most Thai intellectuals sided with Sarit against Phao, most Thai intellectuals in 2006-7 also leaned towards the PAD and indeed the Sep coup against Thaksin.
It is also not quite true that Puey ‘never accepted any political appointment. He’s a chief economic advisers to Sarit (I have to check whether there’s a formal ‘appointment’ – I remember there was, but there’s no doubt whatsoever that his working with Sarti far exceeded the normal working of a gov bureaucrat.)
Trust jonfernquest to come up with such a response. All his colleagues say he was a liar. He lied about writing the book, he lied about being in prison. jonfernquest insinuates that all foreign journalists of being drug-fuelled, coffee-drinking white racists and as misrepresenting everything they write on in Thailand. jonfernquest’s posts become more nonsensical by the day.
It would seem unlikely that Jon Fernquest, who after all is a writer himself (for the Bangkok Post I believe), would actually believe that the penalty for being a not-very-successful writer or failed novelist (even one who may or may not have sought publicity), should really require being thrown into a Thai prison cell with 50 other hardened criminals (murderers, rapists, thieves, arms and drug dealers, etc.), sharing a public slot-in-the-floor toilet, sleeping on the floor with a cardboard box over one’s head and eating gruel for some years.
Surely, the world’s prisons would soon be overflowing with such writers and it is obviously a better use of the limited resources of the world’s penal systems to let such writers simply go on their way.
JFQ: Has it occurred to your white-boy-intellectual-thinkin’ do-gooder brain that most of us also support every other victim of this ridiculous law & condemn the current purge? I really don’t think that many people feel Harry was a special case.
I can’t follow your reasoning on this, especially the stuff about Heath being more worthy of respect because he’s taught “thousands of poor rural youth.” Everyone who teaches here, whether in an urban or rural setting, can eventually say they’ve taught thousands of poor infants, youth, or adults – but they don’t, mostly. And most would probably agree that if that were the basis of their worthiness for respect, then perhaps they should get a life.
Isn’t it one of the fundamentals of civil-and-human rights that we are all worthy of respect and entitled to fair treatment & freedom by virtue of our identity as humans, without having to do anything to ‘deserve’ it?
Harry’s talk & his merit as a fiction-writer have absolutely no bearing on his right to freedom. And for you (who write for the extremely tame & unenlightening Bangkok Post, for god’s sake!) to put down Ji by calling him an “intellectual” fool, and imply that he deserves what has happened to him, is beyond belief.
I worked at the same university at the same time as Harry, Heath and Jon. While I am far kinder to Harry than either of my other colleagues, I agree with the gist of Heath’s account. It is not that he WANTED to get busted, but he did court the risk involved and tended to either ignore or minimize the consequences. My two colleagues (who I hold in great esteem) call it opportunism. I call it a taste for flamboyance.
Context here is critical. At the time, we all knew of only one other foreigner actually accused of lese majeste. That foreigner, Matthew McDaniel, was never imprisoned; he was told to leave Thailand and never return. His crime was far more flagrant than Harry’s (he publicly criticized a royal works project as corrupt) and his punishment modest in comparison. The friends advising Harry were fairly consistent in saying that the consequences would likely be banishment, not imprisonment. We were also consistent in saying that he was taking unnecessary risks.
Jon’s accusation of Harry’s dishonesty is harsh to me, but the main fact in the case is solid; he knew, and did it anyway.
Perhap, you should ask AJ Jai one more question about his father relationship with Samak. Ihave heard that during the reign of Tanom, Prapast and Sarit, Samak (yes, the PM who was expelled for cooking) was one of the top official of that reign who has been very rude to AJ Jai’s father at that time.
I have heard that Samak was taking the ellites’s side back then and didn’t actually have a good relationship with Dr. Puey. In fact, Samak really slabed Dr. Puey in the face at the Donmeaug Airport. Is that true?
Anyway i just want to know how would AJ Jai think about that. It is the question that has been bugging me all these time. If Samak really did slab Dr Puey back then it would be very difficult indeed for both Samak and AJ Jai to be on the same side today. And if Samak really did that, then AJ Jai would have to look beyond family tied to the greater good. And it would take a lot of forgiveness from AJ Jai to look beyond that incident.
Then again may be im wrong in saying that 1) Samak wasn’t that rude to Dr Puey, or 2) the red shirt have many main stream supporters. Some supporters are very liberal minded like AJ Jai, the Midnight University Movement and the Pracha Thai Website, while some supporter of red shirt movement were the corrupted politician like Chaleam Yubumrung and Samak and that all the supporters within this movement are really can’t get along with one another.
More over, there are so many people in the red shirt movement who were the supporter of Thanom, Prapast Sarit reign such as Slang Boonnagh.
By the way, dont get me wrong, i am a big fan of AJ Jai. and im proud to say that im thai and i support his movement eventhough half of my family are royalist and attained the PAD movement. And the fact that i pointed out the differences in factions within the red shirt movement is because i really want all the factions within the movement merge into one unify group in which it is AJ’s Jai would have wanted as he express this in his manesfesto. But if the differences is too much then i really want to know how is the unity of red shirt movement can actually take place.
Personal animosity (and/or jealousy for international exposure?) seems to deflect from the issue here. Publicity stunt or not, previous achievements regardless, the issue is a draconian punishment for a law that increasingly stands in conflict with Human Rights and is increasingly criticised both inside and outside of Thailand.
Do i care that colleagues of Harry Nicolaides call him a liar? Not one bit, because what is the center of the debate cannot be lied about – that he was under harsh conditions in jail, and that requests for bail have been denied.
What on earth has that to do with “white boy” or race altogether other that it is easier for the media to place articles they otherwise would like to but cannot to to editorial practices? Here on this forum we though should not lower ourselves to draw the discussion into racial issues, especially with such a terminology.
This post has not done you, and what appears to be your cause, any service. If you have an issue with media reporting on the Harry Nicolaides case, i would request you to formulate a reasonable argument that we can discuss instead of a frothing diatribe.
“not overreaching ‘intellectual’ fools like Harry and Giles” > Harsh words. But, yes, at times one might well feel uncomfortable who one has to defend politically because certain principles say so.
The above mentioned statement by Forde Nicolaides certainly provides food for thought. If it’s true, then it would indicate that Heath Dollar is talking out of his ass, and just trying to insinuate himself into the situation for his own reasons. Self promotion anyone?
That Heath Dollar has spent time teaching the poor doesn’t even enter into it. Nor does the fact that Harry Nicolaides may have spent some time as a hotel “gofer”. Shades of class warfare!!!
White-boy-intellectual-think goes something like this.
Hey, that’s a white boy in leg shackles locked up in that cage crying on CNN in front of 4 million viewers worldwide, I too am white boy, (ergo truth no longer relevant here) must have compassionate same-race-creature-love for fellow white boy in cage, former hotel gofer becomes “Australian academic,” a “writer,” a “political prisoner”…whatever imagined alternative reality I want him to be… (while I’m smoking my pot or sipping my espresso)
With Heath, it is now five former colleagues of Harry who are all saying the same thing: Harry is a complete liar.
The Harry case is ipso facto proof of the incompetence and misrepresentation of foreign media reporting on issues in Thailand (perhaps even р╕ар╕▒р╕вр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Бр╕гр╕░р╣Бр╕кр╕кр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕бр╕Кр╕▓р╕Хр╕┤ Threat From the Thoughts/Trends of the Foreign Media, via Bangkok Pundit).
Heath having taught thousands of poor rural youth in the Czech Republic and Thailand should be the one who engenders respect, not overreaching “intellectual” fools like Harry and Giles.
Would that make Harry’s mother ‘collateral damage’? How can anyone know whether the story is true? But it is of some interest that both Dollar (apt surname?) and Jon Fernquest (also a former colleague) have called him an opportunist. Neither of them seems to have liked him, indeed they’ve both shown their lack of compassion, contempt even, for him by going public with their extremely negative views. In Fernquest’s case (early blog on NM), I felt that he was saying Harry deserved it. That would imply that Fernquest supports LM arrests, wouldn’t it?
RN England: Yes, publicity stunt, absolutely, as I’ve been saying all along. However I was wrong about the book itself being a hoax. I have finally seen a photocopy. It is not very long, and badly written.
I think Giles and his father (Dr.Puey Ungpakorn) are the kind of academics that the current Thai academia lack. The repressive attitude of numerous academics nowadays discourages student from arguements, independent thoughts, most importantly critical thinking. Puey and Pridi (founder of Thamasat university) would be shocked if they would witness many Thammasat students worshipping the irrational PAD as role model. Thai education is really in the abyss of dark age. I wonder whether any academics who have the courage like Giles still exist in Chulalongkorn or other universities. I’m afraid the “bad education” is one the fundamental problems in this country.
Dr. Ola Hanson had done a great job. He did find the rich tones of Jinghpaw language and realize and committed that the Jinghpaw writing needs further improvements. I have found the minorities in Southeast Asia are multilingual of at least 2 languages to several and found that they have better instinct to cope with more languages than the ethic belong to the majorities. I am pure Jinghpaw from Bhamo and has been working in Many parts of Laos and Cambodia. I am fluent in Lao, Myanmar, Khmer, English and some Khmu, Katang and Tampuan (Not counting Thai as it is similar to Lao). I clearly understand the richnest of Jinghpaw language as I have the capacity to compare the languages I know. Jinghpaw has five tones which complicate many language learners.
Some examples
Wa ^ (Compensate)
Wa- (Teeth)
Wa: (Father)
Wa_(Come back, return)
Wa (Pig)
It may help some of you to understand more about the Jinhpaw language.
We are trying to improve the Jinghpaw writing with no success so far as the Jinghpaw writing created by Dr. Ola Hanson is very easy and addicted by all Kachins.
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Special interview: Giles Ungpakorn, part 2
I studied at the faculty of political science, Chulalongkorn. There were so many monarchy secret agents at the university ranging from building cleaners to professors. When I watch the NAZI documentary film, I recognize the similarity. The degree of control is beyond what can be described in words.
More repressive efforts in Thailand
chiang mai_Red shirts stop gay parade
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC7BFg9BWeg
mizzimaTV
Special interview: Giles Ungpakorn, part 2
The famous 1972 ‘open letter’ of Puey to Thanom (‘From Nai Khem Yen Ying to Village Chief Thamnu Kiatkong’) urging the latter to return to parliamentary politics, has also to be seen in the context of the time. It’s not that Puey was ‘against militarty dictatorship’ as such, otherwise he wouldn’t have worked for Sarit for five or six years throughout the latter’s reign, and had a quite cordial relations with Thanom. But it is the disappointment with the 1971 coup that prompted him to write the letter. In this, Puey wasn’t exceptional. Many, many intellectuals including many students activists had been politicized (even radicalized) because of that coup – a situation not dissimilar to the 2006 coup.
The ‘soft feeling ‘ by leading intellectuals towards military dictatorship that seemes to promise a ‘cleaner’ politics than the hatred, dirty politicians is defenitely not the monopoly of our present time. Puey’s case wasn’t unique.
Special interview: Giles Ungpakorn, part 2
I don’t want to get involved in personal / family matters of other people, but what Ji says about Puey and the military government, which is part of public history, is certainly not true:
It wasn’t that he was supporting the military dictatorship. So he worked as a government official, but never accepted any political appointment.
Puey was one of the intellectuals who supported Sarit against Phibun-Phao. In fact most Thai intellectuals at the time, including Jit Phumisak, did too. Understanding this is important for the understanding of that period. Moreover, the parallel with recents event is very striking. Just as in the 2500 period when most Thai intellectuals sided with Sarit against Phao, most Thai intellectuals in 2006-7 also leaned towards the PAD and indeed the Sep coup against Thaksin.
It is also not quite true that Puey ‘never accepted any political appointment. He’s a chief economic advisers to Sarit (I have to check whether there’s a formal ‘appointment’ – I remember there was, but there’s no doubt whatsoever that his working with Sarti far exceeded the normal working of a gov bureaucrat.)
I debated the issue with Ji’s brother (Jon) once and provided evidence of Puey’s presense when Sarit ordered the execution of a suspect Communist, using the special power given by his own Constitution (the notorious ‘Article 17’) without any legal proceedings.
See (sorry, in Thai only):
http://somsakwork.blogspot.com/2007/11/blog-post_16.html
http://somsakwork.blogspot.com/2006/07/blog-post_03.html
Heath Dollar on Harry’s literary ambition
Trust jonfernquest to come up with such a response. All his colleagues say he was a liar. He lied about writing the book, he lied about being in prison. jonfernquest insinuates that all foreign journalists of being drug-fuelled, coffee-drinking white racists and as misrepresenting everything they write on in Thailand. jonfernquest’s posts become more nonsensical by the day.
Heath Dollar on Harry’s literary ambition
It would seem unlikely that Jon Fernquest, who after all is a writer himself (for the Bangkok Post I believe), would actually believe that the penalty for being a not-very-successful writer or failed novelist (even one who may or may not have sought publicity), should really require being thrown into a Thai prison cell with 50 other hardened criminals (murderers, rapists, thieves, arms and drug dealers, etc.), sharing a public slot-in-the-floor toilet, sleeping on the floor with a cardboard box over one’s head and eating gruel for some years.
Surely, the world’s prisons would soon be overflowing with such writers and it is obviously a better use of the limited resources of the world’s penal systems to let such writers simply go on their way.
Heath Dollar on Harry’s literary ambition
JFQ: Has it occurred to your white-boy-intellectual-thinkin’ do-gooder brain that most of us also support every other victim of this ridiculous law & condemn the current purge? I really don’t think that many people feel Harry was a special case.
I can’t follow your reasoning on this, especially the stuff about Heath being more worthy of respect because he’s taught “thousands of poor rural youth.” Everyone who teaches here, whether in an urban or rural setting, can eventually say they’ve taught thousands of poor infants, youth, or adults – but they don’t, mostly. And most would probably agree that if that were the basis of their worthiness for respect, then perhaps they should get a life.
Isn’t it one of the fundamentals of civil-and-human rights that we are all worthy of respect and entitled to fair treatment & freedom by virtue of our identity as humans, without having to do anything to ‘deserve’ it?
Harry’s talk & his merit as a fiction-writer have absolutely no bearing on his right to freedom. And for you (who write for the extremely tame & unenlightening Bangkok Post, for god’s sake!) to put down Ji by calling him an “intellectual” fool, and imply that he deserves what has happened to him, is beyond belief.
Heath Dollar on Harry’s literary ambition
I worked at the same university at the same time as Harry, Heath and Jon. While I am far kinder to Harry than either of my other colleagues, I agree with the gist of Heath’s account. It is not that he WANTED to get busted, but he did court the risk involved and tended to either ignore or minimize the consequences. My two colleagues (who I hold in great esteem) call it opportunism. I call it a taste for flamboyance.
Context here is critical. At the time, we all knew of only one other foreigner actually accused of lese majeste. That foreigner, Matthew McDaniel, was never imprisoned; he was told to leave Thailand and never return. His crime was far more flagrant than Harry’s (he publicly criticized a royal works project as corrupt) and his punishment modest in comparison. The friends advising Harry were fairly consistent in saying that the consequences would likely be banishment, not imprisonment. We were also consistent in saying that he was taking unnecessary risks.
Jon’s accusation of Harry’s dishonesty is harsh to me, but the main fact in the case is solid; he knew, and did it anyway.
Special interview: Giles Ungpakorn, part 2
Perhap, you should ask AJ Jai one more question about his father relationship with Samak. Ihave heard that during the reign of Tanom, Prapast and Sarit, Samak (yes, the PM who was expelled for cooking) was one of the top official of that reign who has been very rude to AJ Jai’s father at that time.
I have heard that Samak was taking the ellites’s side back then and didn’t actually have a good relationship with Dr. Puey. In fact, Samak really slabed Dr. Puey in the face at the Donmeaug Airport. Is that true?
Anyway i just want to know how would AJ Jai think about that. It is the question that has been bugging me all these time. If Samak really did slab Dr Puey back then it would be very difficult indeed for both Samak and AJ Jai to be on the same side today. And if Samak really did that, then AJ Jai would have to look beyond family tied to the greater good. And it would take a lot of forgiveness from AJ Jai to look beyond that incident.
Then again may be im wrong in saying that 1) Samak wasn’t that rude to Dr Puey, or 2) the red shirt have many main stream supporters. Some supporters are very liberal minded like AJ Jai, the Midnight University Movement and the Pracha Thai Website, while some supporter of red shirt movement were the corrupted politician like Chaleam Yubumrung and Samak and that all the supporters within this movement are really can’t get along with one another.
More over, there are so many people in the red shirt movement who were the supporter of Thanom, Prapast Sarit reign such as Slang Boonnagh.
By the way, dont get me wrong, i am a big fan of AJ Jai. and im proud to say that im thai and i support his movement eventhough half of my family are royalist and attained the PAD movement. And the fact that i pointed out the differences in factions within the red shirt movement is because i really want all the factions within the movement merge into one unify group in which it is AJ’s Jai would have wanted as he express this in his manesfesto. But if the differences is too much then i really want to know how is the unity of red shirt movement can actually take place.
Heath Dollar on Harry’s literary ambition
“jonfernquest”:
Personal animosity (and/or jealousy for international exposure?) seems to deflect from the issue here. Publicity stunt or not, previous achievements regardless, the issue is a draconian punishment for a law that increasingly stands in conflict with Human Rights and is increasingly criticised both inside and outside of Thailand.
Do i care that colleagues of Harry Nicolaides call him a liar? Not one bit, because what is the center of the debate cannot be lied about – that he was under harsh conditions in jail, and that requests for bail have been denied.
What on earth has that to do with “white boy” or race altogether other that it is easier for the media to place articles they otherwise would like to but cannot to to editorial practices? Here on this forum we though should not lower ourselves to draw the discussion into racial issues, especially with such a terminology.
This post has not done you, and what appears to be your cause, any service. If you have an issue with media reporting on the Harry Nicolaides case, i would request you to formulate a reasonable argument that we can discuss instead of a frothing diatribe.
Heath Dollar on Harry’s literary ambition
“not overreaching ‘intellectual’ fools like Harry and Giles” > Harsh words. But, yes, at times one might well feel uncomfortable who one has to defend politically because certain principles say so.
Heath Dollar on Harry’s literary ambition
The above mentioned statement by Forde Nicolaides certainly provides food for thought. If it’s true, then it would indicate that Heath Dollar is talking out of his ass, and just trying to insinuate himself into the situation for his own reasons. Self promotion anyone?
That Heath Dollar has spent time teaching the poor doesn’t even enter into it. Nor does the fact that Harry Nicolaides may have spent some time as a hotel “gofer”. Shades of class warfare!!!
Heath Dollar on Harry’s literary ambition
White-boy-intellectual-think goes something like this.
Hey, that’s a white boy in leg shackles locked up in that cage crying on CNN in front of 4 million viewers worldwide, I too am white boy, (ergo truth no longer relevant here) must have compassionate same-race-creature-love for fellow white boy in cage, former hotel gofer becomes “Australian academic,” a “writer,” a “political prisoner”…whatever imagined alternative reality I want him to be… (while I’m smoking my pot or sipping my espresso)
With Heath, it is now five former colleagues of Harry who are all saying the same thing: Harry is a complete liar.
The Harry case is ipso facto proof of the incompetence and misrepresentation of foreign media reporting on issues in Thailand (perhaps even р╕ар╕▒р╕вр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Бр╕гр╕░р╣Бр╕кр╕кр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕бр╕Кр╕▓р╕Хр╕┤ Threat From the Thoughts/Trends of the Foreign Media, via Bangkok Pundit).
Heath having taught thousands of poor rural youth in the Czech Republic and Thailand should be the one who engenders respect, not overreaching “intellectual” fools like Harry and Giles.
Heath Dollar on Harry’s literary ambition
Would that make Harry’s mother ‘collateral damage’? How can anyone know whether the story is true? But it is of some interest that both Dollar (apt surname?) and Jon Fernquest (also a former colleague) have called him an opportunist. Neither of them seems to have liked him, indeed they’ve both shown their lack of compassion, contempt even, for him by going public with their extremely negative views. In Fernquest’s case (early blog on NM), I felt that he was saying Harry deserved it. That would imply that Fernquest supports LM arrests, wouldn’t it?
Heath Dollar on Harry’s literary ambition
RN England: Yes, publicity stunt, absolutely, as I’ve been saying all along. However I was wrong about the book itself being a hoax. I have finally seen a photocopy. It is not very long, and badly written.
Special interview: Giles Ungpakorn, part 2
I think Giles and his father (Dr.Puey Ungpakorn) are the kind of academics that the current Thai academia lack. The repressive attitude of numerous academics nowadays discourages student from arguements, independent thoughts, most importantly critical thinking. Puey and Pridi (founder of Thamasat university) would be shocked if they would witness many Thammasat students worshipping the irrational PAD as role model. Thai education is really in the abyss of dark age. I wonder whether any academics who have the courage like Giles still exist in Chulalongkorn or other universities. I’m afraid the “bad education” is one the fundamental problems in this country.
Heath Dollar on Harry’s literary ambition
Harry Nicolaides received his fifteen minutes of fame – now it’s Heath Dollar’s turn.
Heath Dollar on Harry’s literary ambition
Could the Thai Monarchy have been sucked into playing the villain in a literary publicity stunt?
Heath Dollar on Harry’s literary ambition
Googling Mr Dollar also provides insights into his background and interests.
Ola Hanson from the archive on vocabulary size
Dr. Ola Hanson had done a great job. He did find the rich tones of Jinghpaw language and realize and committed that the Jinghpaw writing needs further improvements. I have found the minorities in Southeast Asia are multilingual of at least 2 languages to several and found that they have better instinct to cope with more languages than the ethic belong to the majorities. I am pure Jinghpaw from Bhamo and has been working in Many parts of Laos and Cambodia. I am fluent in Lao, Myanmar, Khmer, English and some Khmu, Katang and Tampuan (Not counting Thai as it is similar to Lao). I clearly understand the richnest of Jinghpaw language as I have the capacity to compare the languages I know. Jinghpaw has five tones which complicate many language learners.
Some examples
Wa ^ (Compensate)
Wa- (Teeth)
Wa: (Father)
Wa_(Come back, return)
Wa (Pig)
Na^ (take times, Chronic)
Na- (Ear, will)
Na: (Paddy land)
Na_ (dark, extreme black)
Na (Hear, sting)
It may help some of you to understand more about the Jinhpaw language.
We are trying to improve the Jinghpaw writing with no success so far as the Jinghpaw writing created by Dr. Ola Hanson is very easy and addicted by all Kachins.
Seng Hkum