So, now it’s official: ‘Thai Commerce” is a euphemism for prostitution. This Month’s PM must have been really scraping the bottom of the barrel in his deals to get a coalition together.
Abhisit may have publicly stated that wrongdoings of PAD are to be prosecuted. Yet, so far no arrest warrant is out against PAD members, even not against the members that were filmed shooting at Reds at Vibhavadi Soi 3, with their faces exposed. Very much to the dismay of police. It took though only a day to issue arrest warrants against Red Shirts that have thrown stones at vehicles of Democrat MPs, a comparatively minor offense than the attempted murder and serious bodily harm charges these PAD guards have been filmed at.
Where is the questions of the Thai media regardless this fact, and the answers of Abhisit?
And as we all know, a high profile PAD member was appointed Foreign Minister. As if Thailand has not other experienced, yet untainted diplomats available for the job.
Also Abhisit’s personal support for PAD, in action, despite his words, are still not much topic – where, for example he personally interfered in the court ordered dispersal attempt by police on 29/8/2008.
“Water buffalo mentality”?
A slight simplification – these people voted for Thaksin, because under his government they have experienced a higher standard of living than under any other government, as a direct result of “populist” policies. There simply is no talking away this fact. This is democracy, and so far i have not seen the Democrat Party ever campaigning under a policy platform, and the little declarations of intent they have issued, they have never followed up upon.
Two Democrat governments without much improvement in the North and Northeast i have witnessed here in Thailand are ample proof.
If you believe that the Southern Democrats are less corrupt than the rest of the country – than you are mistaken. They are as much part of the patronage network system as anybody else, and this is the most corroding influence of a democratic and egalitarian society that there is. Worse than mere pecuniary corruption, which is one of the side effects of patronage.
The South is in a financially more secure position, mostly due better land, better rain, closer proximity to the oceans. Such a better economical position obviously helps. But corruption is striving there as it does everwhere in Thailand (ever observed the business community in the southern provinces, it’s famous underworld?).
Has the military government under Surayudh punished any official, police and military, that has killed unarmed protesters? No. So far the only punishment on these has been inflicted by the Thaksin government – a whooping transferal to inactive posts.
Don’t expect the Democrats doing any heaver punishments, or investigations.
In the three southern provinces the Democrats do not enjoy any more support than TRT/PPP/Puah Thai. Politics there is strictly local, and no government in Thailand will be able to restore confidence with the Majority Muslims, because their demands will not be met by anybody. Just see what happened with the under the Thaksin administration installed NPC – its demands were shot down straight away, and not just by Thaksin, but more powerful sectors of society were strictly opposed. Democrats are very much in debt to those sectors.
The lese majeste laws? I might be mistaken, but i slightly remember that during the Samal adminsitration the democrats issued a statement in which they demanded increased prison terms for lese majeste.
This law is not going away, under no administration, and no civil action, as you seem to propose, will make any difference.
I expect the same from the Democrats they have always delivered – No Action Talk Only. And i have not been disappointed in this core Democrat quality during this short period of their not so publicly elected government, so far.
Nantida is a little too red on this. Draft-dodging has a respectable history in some parts of the world at certain times – think of all the Americans who fled to Canada and elsewhere during the Vietnam War.
Actually the comparison with Abhisit is with George W. Bush. He did other service and it seems that Abhisit did as well. George didn’t show up much… Maybe Mark wandered off as well. The elite avoid these things easily.
There are many better things to criticise Abhisit for! Get him on substantive current issues – his lies, his compromised position, his elite position, etc. etc.
The new ICT minister announced today that her top priority is to block websites that insult the monarchy. She stated that “every Thai” would agree with this move.
It is good to know that the Dems are on the job and will vigilantly ensure that there is only good news available on the monarchy. The Democrats have also asked for lese majeste investigations to be accelerated, naming the case against Jakkraphob.
Alongside the various responses to the Economist, ranging from the bizarre (in the Nation) to off-target (by Surakiat), which have mentioned the culturalist notion that Westerners just don’t understand, a deeper royalist objection has been made by Vasit Dejkunchorn.
In a recent article, he argues that foreigners, no matter how long they study Thailand, can never understand the country because they lack the essential element of “Thainess.” This quality comes from being born, raised and educated in Thailand. In Vasit’s scheme of things, “Thainess” appears to mean support for the monarchy. Those Thais who read foreigners’ work and believe them are actually , he asserts, mentally deranged and should seek immediate medical assessment.
Vasit was a policeman to the king and wrote the syrupy “In In His Majesty’s Footsteps” and has a long palace pedigree prior to working with the military-appointed government in 2007.
The palace appears to be fighting back against the sudden out-pouring of critical articles in the media targeting the monarchy. Vasit is one of their faithful tools. Vasit and his kind seem truly astounded at what has happened of late and one response is to lash out and explain to Thais, in Thai, that these foreigners just can’t possibly understand, are malicious and/or stupid (and yes, Vasit says, some are paid by Thaksin).
Vasit and his colleagues seem to lament the passing of a time when there were only a few journalists in Bangkok and they were easily controlled and convinced to write the hagiographical articles that routinely came out of Bangkok agencies who reported on the king. Many of those journalists wanted to stay in Thailand and were wary of lese majeste. That seems no longer the case.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is taking a different approach, suggesting that “all interested to learn more about the lifelong achievements of H.M. the King of Thailand [should] … access a privately-run website: http://www.royalvdo.com which contains various video clips of royal works and activities in English and Thai.” Whether it really is “privately-run” is open to speculation, but it is interesting that it is being promoted over a legion of pro-monarchy sites maintained by the palace’s own organisations. It is also promoted over a myriad of obviously pro-monarchy private sites already available.
So why this one? On a quick search the reason might be that it offers pro-monarchy clips along with careful and detailed instructions on how to post these at YouTube. I guess this is a neat idea. Have unofficial responses to all the bad publicity and try to swamp the web with pro-monarchy stuff.
The Economist, following on Handley (now available in full Thai translation, but many sites blocked in Thailand), and the 2006 coup involvement seem to have unleashed a great deal of criticism in Thailand and abroad. And the palace is responding.
Democracy means government by the people, rule of the majority. A government in which the supreme power is vested in the common people and exercised by them through a system of representation. It is a system with an absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges.
The reason the democrat party is being called the Cockroaches Party is because the Thai military and the Palace had unfairly intervened in the democratic process. The military coerced and bribed the small coalition parties by locking them up in the motel without any cell phones. They were not allowed to communicate with the outside world. The military put them in a small van, brought them to the parliament and forced them to vote for the Cockroaches Party. This is not democracy.
Abhisit Vejjajiva is illegitimate because he knows so well that he cheated on the process but he has no ethical standard to admit the fact. Every Thai male goes through a period of military training. However, Abhisit Vejjajiva has no shame to be a draft dodger. No country would want a leader one is shame of, wouldn’t you?
I’m also curious abt Aphisit’s thesis. Keep us posted after you have a quick scan of it please!! Perhaps I should also check out Taksin’s dissertation??
honestly, i do not think that nanuam’s recent work is worth a look. Considering her various contributions in the BP, one can not expect a solid and valid scientific discussion about thailand’s past two years.
Nigel’s probably right that this is largely a battle between wealthy elite groupings for the spoils of the state and you are left with the devil you know or the lesser of two evils which unfortunately is often the case everywhere else in the world. Democracy is also a term so widely abused and something often violated if it doesn’t go the way you want.
I wanted to thank everyone for the supportive and thought-provoking comments. I am not sure what the etiquette is with these four-letter words, so I just listened and learned from the comments.
I have written a bit more about Pali and its protective uses and that should come out soon. I hope to post some ideas and questions in the new year and look forward to the comments/criticisms/suggestions.
It’s very fascinating to note those who feel others, especially ‘outsiders,’ cannot comment on Thai politics, culture or society. And where is the richest resource of Thai literature and history of Thailand, the most uncensored part? Outside Thailand.
Thai people are censor-minded, almost without limit. That’s why the taboo subjects remain taboo. It’s easy to hate those who wish to see the truth exposed.
1. Will the government punish PAD leaders for breaking the law, including the Democrat MP who took over the airport? Will the PAD be made to answer for the damage at Government House? Will the Democrats expel their MP who lead the airport occupation?
Answer: Abhisit has publicly said that wrongdoing PAD members would have to face the music. This is more than Thaksin ever did.
2. Will the military chiefs be sacked for breaking the law and intervening in politics. Will they be sacked for giving the green-light to the take-over of the airports and thus compromising airport security?
Answer: Did they give the green light? Proof, Ji? Proof.
3. Will the government defend the undemocratic constitution or will it amend the constitution to increase democracy?
Answer: I personally witnessed rural drafting and comments for the new constitution and can attest that it was put together more honestly than many before it.
4. Will elections be held as soon as possible to allow the Thai population to have a say?
Answer: Unfortunately, much of the population does have, as many Thais themselves have said, a water buffalo mentality – IE, “Love Thaksin.”
5. What serious measures will the government take in order to protect the poor from the economic crisis. What job creating policies do they have? How can they stop workers being sacked from factories. Will they increase wages and cut VAT in order to stimulate the economy? Will they increase taxation on the rich in order to help the poor?
Answer: Have you asked what the lasat three inept administrations did in this regard, other than make a bunch of useless promises?
6. Will the government punish state officials who murdered unarmed demonstrators in the South at Takbai during the Thaksin government? Will they withdraw troops and police so that a peaceful political solution can be achieved?
Answer: Democrats have begun setting up a separate agency for the south, and as we all know, Democrats enjoy southern sympathies for good reason, primarily lack of corruption.
7. Will the government ensure a balanced media by allowing significant space for Red Shirt anti-government critics? Or will the government increase censorship and media bias? Will they repeal the Lese Majesty law and allow public scrutiny and criticism of the courts?
Answer: The lese majeste law will not be repealed unless Thais and/or foreigners litigate against it. So, Ji, let’s join as plaintiffs in this if you please…
David Brown: it’s the culture given from the ruling class for ages. This “patronage/client”norm(also ways of living and lines of thinking) request absolute obedience and leave no room for questioning. Either abiding the rules and live a peaceful(?) live,or questioning the rulers and face all kind of troubles .
What kind of rules?The rulers’opinions are the rules,there’re no written one(even if it did have,the rulers can easily overrule the “rules”)
This kind of relationship reflected from the ancient socioeconomic status of the vast peasants who had no right to own any plot of land.
All land belonged to the king who allowed the peasants to harvest in his land,and pay back taxes in return. All the peasants’ fate depended on the mercy of the king.
This kind of relationship do remain and can be trace in the modern Thai society, for at least in the way of thinking. Thai students do not question their teachers,argueing is considered impolite.
This oppressive culture dominates Thai lives for centuries ,the root goes so deep that most are unawared of its existence. That’s why Thais always come to an excuse like”you don’t understand Thai”. In fact they don’t aware of what lie beneath their line of thoughts .
The LM laws needs repealing, but doing so would remove a powerful tool of oppression and suppression from the police inventory. This is really the problem.
Is there a prize for guessing the identity of Elf No. 3? My guess is that he’s an ex-MP, still very involved in parliamentary skullduggery, and named after a notorious Burmese general.
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Banter about the Abhisit Vejjajiva cabinet
So, now it’s official: ‘Thai Commerce” is a euphemism for prostitution. This Month’s PM must have been really scraping the bottom of the barrel in his deals to get a coalition together.
Ji Ungpakorn on Thailand’s second coup
“Frank G Anderson”:
A few comments on your post.
Abhisit may have publicly stated that wrongdoings of PAD are to be prosecuted. Yet, so far no arrest warrant is out against PAD members, even not against the members that were filmed shooting at Reds at Vibhavadi Soi 3, with their faces exposed. Very much to the dismay of police. It took though only a day to issue arrest warrants against Red Shirts that have thrown stones at vehicles of Democrat MPs, a comparatively minor offense than the attempted murder and serious bodily harm charges these PAD guards have been filmed at.
Where is the questions of the Thai media regardless this fact, and the answers of Abhisit?
And as we all know, a high profile PAD member was appointed Foreign Minister. As if Thailand has not other experienced, yet untainted diplomats available for the job.
Also Abhisit’s personal support for PAD, in action, despite his words, are still not much topic – where, for example he personally interfered in the court ordered dispersal attempt by police on 29/8/2008.
“Water buffalo mentality”?
A slight simplification – these people voted for Thaksin, because under his government they have experienced a higher standard of living than under any other government, as a direct result of “populist” policies. There simply is no talking away this fact. This is democracy, and so far i have not seen the Democrat Party ever campaigning under a policy platform, and the little declarations of intent they have issued, they have never followed up upon.
Two Democrat governments without much improvement in the North and Northeast i have witnessed here in Thailand are ample proof.
If you believe that the Southern Democrats are less corrupt than the rest of the country – than you are mistaken. They are as much part of the patronage network system as anybody else, and this is the most corroding influence of a democratic and egalitarian society that there is. Worse than mere pecuniary corruption, which is one of the side effects of patronage.
The South is in a financially more secure position, mostly due better land, better rain, closer proximity to the oceans. Such a better economical position obviously helps. But corruption is striving there as it does everwhere in Thailand (ever observed the business community in the southern provinces, it’s famous underworld?).
Has the military government under Surayudh punished any official, police and military, that has killed unarmed protesters? No. So far the only punishment on these has been inflicted by the Thaksin government – a whooping transferal to inactive posts.
Don’t expect the Democrats doing any heaver punishments, or investigations.
In the three southern provinces the Democrats do not enjoy any more support than TRT/PPP/Puah Thai. Politics there is strictly local, and no government in Thailand will be able to restore confidence with the Majority Muslims, because their demands will not be met by anybody. Just see what happened with the under the Thaksin administration installed NPC – its demands were shot down straight away, and not just by Thaksin, but more powerful sectors of society were strictly opposed. Democrats are very much in debt to those sectors.
The lese majeste laws? I might be mistaken, but i slightly remember that during the Samal adminsitration the democrats issued a statement in which they demanded increased prison terms for lese majeste.
This law is not going away, under no administration, and no civil action, as you seem to propose, will make any difference.
I expect the same from the Democrats they have always delivered – No Action Talk Only. And i have not been disappointed in this core Democrat quality during this short period of their not so publicly elected government, so far.
Ji Ungpakorn on Thailand’s second coup
Nantida is a little too red on this. Draft-dodging has a respectable history in some parts of the world at certain times – think of all the Americans who fled to Canada and elsewhere during the Vietnam War.
Actually the comparison with Abhisit is with George W. Bush. He did other service and it seems that Abhisit did as well. George didn’t show up much… Maybe Mark wandered off as well. The elite avoid these things easily.
There are many better things to criticise Abhisit for! Get him on substantive current issues – his lies, his compromised position, his elite position, etc. etc.
Update on the royal taboo
The new ICT minister announced today that her top priority is to block websites that insult the monarchy. She stated that “every Thai” would agree with this move.
It is good to know that the Dems are on the job and will vigilantly ensure that there is only good news available on the monarchy. The Democrats have also asked for lese majeste investigations to be accelerated, naming the case against Jakkraphob.
Alongside the various responses to the Economist, ranging from the bizarre (in the Nation) to off-target (by Surakiat), which have mentioned the culturalist notion that Westerners just don’t understand, a deeper royalist objection has been made by Vasit Dejkunchorn.
In a recent article, he argues that foreigners, no matter how long they study Thailand, can never understand the country because they lack the essential element of “Thainess.” This quality comes from being born, raised and educated in Thailand. In Vasit’s scheme of things, “Thainess” appears to mean support for the monarchy. Those Thais who read foreigners’ work and believe them are actually , he asserts, mentally deranged and should seek immediate medical assessment.
Vasit was a policeman to the king and wrote the syrupy “In In His Majesty’s Footsteps” and has a long palace pedigree prior to working with the military-appointed government in 2007.
The palace appears to be fighting back against the sudden out-pouring of critical articles in the media targeting the monarchy. Vasit is one of their faithful tools. Vasit and his kind seem truly astounded at what has happened of late and one response is to lash out and explain to Thais, in Thai, that these foreigners just can’t possibly understand, are malicious and/or stupid (and yes, Vasit says, some are paid by Thaksin).
Vasit and his colleagues seem to lament the passing of a time when there were only a few journalists in Bangkok and they were easily controlled and convinced to write the hagiographical articles that routinely came out of Bangkok agencies who reported on the king. Many of those journalists wanted to stay in Thailand and were wary of lese majeste. That seems no longer the case.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is taking a different approach, suggesting that “all interested to learn more about the lifelong achievements of H.M. the King of Thailand [should] … access a privately-run website: http://www.royalvdo.com which contains various video clips of royal works and activities in English and Thai.” Whether it really is “privately-run” is open to speculation, but it is interesting that it is being promoted over a legion of pro-monarchy sites maintained by the palace’s own organisations. It is also promoted over a myriad of obviously pro-monarchy private sites already available.
So why this one? On a quick search the reason might be that it offers pro-monarchy clips along with careful and detailed instructions on how to post these at YouTube. I guess this is a neat idea. Have unofficial responses to all the bad publicity and try to swamp the web with pro-monarchy stuff.
The Economist, following on Handley (now available in full Thai translation, but many sites blocked in Thailand), and the 2006 coup involvement seem to have unleashed a great deal of criticism in Thailand and abroad. And the palace is responding.
Ji Ungpakorn on Thailand’s second coup
Democracy means government by the people, rule of the majority. A government in which the supreme power is vested in the common people and exercised by them through a system of representation. It is a system with an absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges.
The reason the democrat party is being called the Cockroaches Party is because the Thai military and the Palace had unfairly intervened in the democratic process. The military coerced and bribed the small coalition parties by locking them up in the motel without any cell phones. They were not allowed to communicate with the outside world. The military put them in a small van, brought them to the parliament and forced them to vote for the Cockroaches Party. This is not democracy.
Abhisit Vejjajiva is illegitimate because he knows so well that he cheated on the process but he has no ethical standard to admit the fact. Every Thai male goes through a period of military training. However, Abhisit Vejjajiva has no shame to be a draft dodger. No country would want a leader one is shame of, wouldn’t you?
Christmas celebrations at New Mandala
invisible hand and the invisible smile?
Banter about the Abhisit Vejjajiva cabinet
I’m also curious abt Aphisit’s thesis. Keep us posted after you have a quick scan of it please!! Perhaps I should also check out Taksin’s dissertation??
The “invisible hand”?
honestly, i do not think that nanuam’s recent work is worth a look. Considering her various contributions in the BP, one can not expect a solid and valid scientific discussion about thailand’s past two years.
Ji Ungpakorn on Thailand’s second coup
Nigel’s probably right that this is largely a battle between wealthy elite groupings for the spoils of the state and you are left with the devil you know or the lesser of two evils which unfortunately is often the case everywhere else in the world. Democracy is also a term so widely abused and something often violated if it doesn’t go the way you want.
Banter about the Abhisit Vejjajiva cabinet
Thanks for the information. However, Nuffield library is closed until the 5th of January. I’ll try to have a look at Abhisit’s thesis afterward.
Pali
I wanted to thank everyone for the supportive and thought-provoking comments. I am not sure what the etiquette is with these four-letter words, so I just listened and learned from the comments.
I have written a bit more about Pali and its protective uses and that should come out soon. I hope to post some ideas and questions in the new year and look forward to the comments/criticisms/suggestions.
Happy Holidays.
Update on the royal taboo
It’s very fascinating to note those who feel others, especially ‘outsiders,’ cannot comment on Thai politics, culture or society. And where is the richest resource of Thai literature and history of Thailand, the most uncensored part? Outside Thailand.
Thai people are censor-minded, almost without limit. That’s why the taboo subjects remain taboo. It’s easy to hate those who wish to see the truth exposed.
Ji Ungpakorn on Thailand’s second coup
1. Will the government punish PAD leaders for breaking the law, including the Democrat MP who took over the airport? Will the PAD be made to answer for the damage at Government House? Will the Democrats expel their MP who lead the airport occupation?
Answer: Abhisit has publicly said that wrongdoing PAD members would have to face the music. This is more than Thaksin ever did.
2. Will the military chiefs be sacked for breaking the law and intervening in politics. Will they be sacked for giving the green-light to the take-over of the airports and thus compromising airport security?
Answer: Did they give the green light? Proof, Ji? Proof.
3. Will the government defend the undemocratic constitution or will it amend the constitution to increase democracy?
Answer: I personally witnessed rural drafting and comments for the new constitution and can attest that it was put together more honestly than many before it.
4. Will elections be held as soon as possible to allow the Thai population to have a say?
Answer: Unfortunately, much of the population does have, as many Thais themselves have said, a water buffalo mentality – IE, “Love Thaksin.”
5. What serious measures will the government take in order to protect the poor from the economic crisis. What job creating policies do they have? How can they stop workers being sacked from factories. Will they increase wages and cut VAT in order to stimulate the economy? Will they increase taxation on the rich in order to help the poor?
Answer: Have you asked what the lasat three inept administrations did in this regard, other than make a bunch of useless promises?
6. Will the government punish state officials who murdered unarmed demonstrators in the South at Takbai during the Thaksin government? Will they withdraw troops and police so that a peaceful political solution can be achieved?
Answer: Democrats have begun setting up a separate agency for the south, and as we all know, Democrats enjoy southern sympathies for good reason, primarily lack of corruption.
7. Will the government ensure a balanced media by allowing significant space for Red Shirt anti-government critics? Or will the government increase censorship and media bias? Will they repeal the Lese Majesty law and allow public scrutiny and criticism of the courts?
Answer: The lese majeste law will not be repealed unless Thais and/or foreigners litigate against it. So, Ji, let’s join as plaintiffs in this if you please…
“Thailand will soon quiet down…”
David Brown: it’s the culture given from the ruling class for ages. This “patronage/client”norm(also ways of living and lines of thinking) request absolute obedience and leave no room for questioning. Either abiding the rules and live a peaceful(?) live,or questioning the rulers and face all kind of troubles .
What kind of rules?The rulers’opinions are the rules,there’re no written one(even if it did have,the rulers can easily overrule the “rules”)
This kind of relationship reflected from the ancient socioeconomic status of the vast peasants who had no right to own any plot of land.
All land belonged to the king who allowed the peasants to harvest in his land,and pay back taxes in return. All the peasants’ fate depended on the mercy of the king.
This kind of relationship do remain and can be trace in the modern Thai society, for at least in the way of thinking. Thai students do not question their teachers,argueing is considered impolite.
This oppressive culture dominates Thai lives for centuries ,the root goes so deep that most are unawared of its existence. That’s why Thais always come to an excuse like”you don’t understand Thai”. In fact they don’t aware of what lie beneath their line of thoughts .
Hope this will not confuse you even more…
Christmas celebrations at New Mandala
Merry Christmas and happy holidays
looking forward for your new posts after the holidays
BTW,save these elves for yourself, I’m fed up with them.
An op-ed on Harry Nicolaides
The LM laws needs repealing, but doing so would remove a powerful tool of oppression and suppression from the police inventory. This is really the problem.
Christmas celebrations at New Mandala
Is there a prize for guessing the identity of Elf No. 3? My guess is that he’s an ex-MP, still very involved in parliamentary skullduggery, and named after a notorious Burmese general.
Christmas celebrations at New Mandala
My guess is that the 2nd elf is the Invisible Hand!!!
Do I get invisible candy for getting that right?
Christmas celebrations at New Mandala
Hobgoblins rather than elves!
Christmas celebrations at New Mandala
Merry Christmas & Happy New Years
Thanks for brand new elf clips.