thanks again for your excellent diligence in being there and in reporting clearly and fairly!
just a couple of requests for information….
“gathering at Wat Suan Gaeow was attended by about 23,000 people, many families, mostly from Bangkok and surrounding provinces.”
where did the estimate of 23,000 come from…
I was there and this is a plausible number, the people were spread through the bush so real hard to count… except at the (2?) entries
and
“in at least two of the recent explosions at Government House there is clear evidence that they were caused by conflicts between the guards.”
do you have sources for the clear evidence, were you there doing your on the spot checking?
and I think I have to repost my statement about illegal protests…
After the Nov 7 tragedy at Parliament House, the Police have been
subject to an unfair campaign by the media and the NHRC to claim that the powers of the Police to disperse armed and violent protests must be limited to non-violent methods.
The Administrative Court made five judgements after that event, 3 of
them declaring that:
the PAD protest was illegal, armed and not peaceful and
the police were authorised to disperse them.
Also, in the last 2 judgements, the court did not say that violence
could not be used, it said: ;
police actions must be proportionate.
To my knowledge the media (and the NHRC) have not published anything of the first 3 judgements which directly contradict claims repeatedly made by the PAD.
Regarding the last 2 judgements, the media, the PAD and even the NHRC have variously stated that the Police cannot use force against the PAD.
All these judgements are important, because in International practise
the actions of police for dispersing peaceful and unarmed protests are
limited.
But where protestors are armed, police actions must be extended to
whatever is necessary to achieve the dispersal.
Protesters must expect that lethal weapons will be available to the
police and will be used by the police if any of the protesters use
lethal weapons… glass balls from sling shots and machetes are lethal
in the right circumstances and, as we know sadly, a sharpened stick can also be lethal to kill a policeman.
I notice that Khun Chamlong has announced he has ordered his guards not to be armed while protesting today. So he is obviously sensitive to the legal and physical risks.
But, we have already seen video that show guards carrying weapons, so either the guards are ignoring his orders or there are secret instructions.
I believe the police were shocked at the effects of the “weapons grade”
tear gas last time, but armed protesters must expect tear gas to be used.
Was this “faulty tear gas supplied and used by the Border Patrol Police, which are under command of the military and have an infamous history?
Protesters must expect water cannon to be used.
The BMA permitted the PAD to use fire trucks for training so they should now be available to the Police?
Protesters must be fully aware that even just sitting where they are,
because they are associated with an armed insurrection, what they are doing is illegal.
Good photo shots, Nick, and thanks for them, especially the first one showing the megalomaniac PAD boss Sonthi standing with arms akimbo. From the way he stands, we can understand what he thinks — he thinks Thailand belongs to him and he does not care what happens to the country as long as he gets what he wants. The same is true with other PAD leaders especially Chamlong, the misguided holy ascetic that even his old buddy Panlop has decided to abandon him
As I am writing now at 6:20 pm local time, we can see on tv how PAD is trying to block the new airport while poor foreign tourists have to get off their vehicles and walk to catch their flights. Is this the kind of democracy that Sonthi wants ? Anyway, we need lots of support from democratic people outside Thailand in case another coup takes place within a few days’ time.
I don’t miss anything, just like to see the bigger picture. being a trans-national for the last 25 years has made me see the light and the PAD is a dark cloud indeed.
I was in pakistan when Zia Ul haq (remember him) plane got bomed out of the sky.
Slept under the bed in a manila5 star hotel, financial district, during the military coup – end of marcos era
I was in kathmandu when the price hosed down the rest of the royal family with a machine gun
Been in Indonesia through a lot of riots
Now living in malaysia when the opposition party finally made in-roads into the governing system – won state govt in 5 states. (racial riots in 1969 – had a couple of weeks off school hurray!)
Guess what – all the blood shed perpetrated by mobs, demonstration etc did not do any good to anyone except set everyone back several decades. ordinary citizens are suffering and will suffer more
People who go to these PAD type mob gathering consist of die hards, paid ignorant, and a bunch of instigators to keep spirit up. None really know what’s going on and what is the real agenda behind the so call leaders. Going thru the name list of the so call PAD leaders will show that the agenda is not so “kohsher” and harping on Thaksin is simply a rallying cry – nothing more
You fail to point out, however, that being anti-Thaksin has absolutely nothing to do with supporting PAD’s lunacy. As far as I’m concerned, the fight to prevent a common criminal from again becoming PM has nothing to do with PAD’s popularity. Especially as … Sonthi was once part of the Thaksin parasitic regime. Indeed, I’m almost inclined to let Thaksin return on the grounds that he will almost certainly wish after that he had stayed in some couldn’t care-less place like Dubai , China or the Bahamas. Many Non-PAD people are also stubborn in their resolve to acheive something better than the current political chaos. And lest we forget, it was Thaksin who fomented this mess. he only has himself to blame.
Good points Frank. KhunHC Lau, you’ve never addressed the shortened list of PMThaksin/TRT abuses of power and conflicts of interests that I asked you to that is RECENT Thai history that led to today’s deep conflicts… Until you do so, you have no right to call anyone “simple minded”…
I still think you should read up on recent Thai political history – just a couple od decades before TRT would do. Please have a notebook and take down names of the “leadership”
Whoops, the reply to Doglover I referred to in #12 has not passed NM’s censors (yet)? (There was nothing controversial there).
Anyway, KhunJoy, thankyou for your comments – and I agree with your sentiments and that “national unity” should not exclude cultural diversity. And at the end of day, even if PMThaksin was originally from Chiang Mai, the current political civil war is between groups of Bangkok-based elites and their interests. The rest of the country is being held ransom as usual. Maybe this also reflects the failure of previous decentralizations of power and the local elections at the OrBorTor level – where line/layers of patronage always link back to manipulative Bangkok/urban Thai based elites? Perhaps until we have a strong laborers/farmers movement that translate into direct political representation, this will always be the case…
Ralph, religion was always there… Dhammakaya (pro-business) and Santi-Asoke (militant-prohibitionists)…
Frank Anderson’s long view is reasonably debatable, but he neglects the medium term, say, the next 10 years or so. Let’s go back to the original (2008 edition) anti-PAD meme — sprung from the NBT takeover attempt — its actions constitute mob rule. We can cut the crap about civil disobedience, non-violence, ahimsa — does anybody seriously believe they apply to the PAD’s approach?
With the tacit endorsement of the Thai establishment — most clearly evidenced in court decisions and the stand taken by various public intellectuals — mob rule had been validated. The fallout from this is already visible in the so far mostly verbal stirrings of the red shirts.
The PAD has also promoted a culture of hate and contempt, in the speeches from the PAD stage and page of their house organs, The Manager newspaper and web site. Again, its spread is readily visible.
It’s pretty clear that the main legacy of the PAD is divisiveness. Perhaps FA’s point is that you have to shatter something to rebuild it better. But I’m not convinced that the PAD has planned beyond the shattering stage.
It is time to realise that the PAD is also fighting for power and not simply an anti-Thaksin/PPP movement. I find it really strange that PAD has never listed potential PMs or caretaker governments in their list of requests for the government. Instead, it is protests against PMs and the ruling coalition without stating what it requires explicitly. By bringing in such a strategy, PAD is not in power but is controlling it by the amount of protests it can stage. Let assume that Somchai steps down and another caretaker PM, whoever he is, takes over (as I have pointed out earlier, PAD has never stated what they want in a PM other than bashing Samak/Somchai as puppets of Thaksin). Do you think the PAD will stop protesting? PAD does not have a clear goal of what it wants despite its claims.
Obviously this support for PAD is slowly dwindling as we can see from various sources and articles. While considering the future of PAD and Thai politics is important, it is also crucial for us to look into the causes of the dwindling support. Is it because of ideological divides between the PAD? Or is it because of the toil of the economic situation? Whatever the case, it may jolly well point to the fact that at the end of the day, the PAD is just a selfish organization seeking power while ignoring “morals” (which they claim they are fighting for) and the plights of its own “supporters”.
It is perhaps also more useful to treat Thai politics from a different perspective. It is not simply a “lose-lose” situation for the government and the PAD but rather, a “i lose and therefore you cannot win” situation.
I am 100% with them. Why should they pay? They belong to another nation not to this Kingdom. Is it not true that they have their own ruling, their own Police, their own leaders, their own everything. One day I saw one PAD protester carrying a poster saying” We are the owners of Thailand”. This says all!!!
Please read up on recent Thai political history – before TRT.
The PAD leaders and members and thugs, whom you hold in such great regard were the corrupt rip them off govt whom you are condemning. They lost power and now the only way to get it back is thru violence (that you advocate)
Simply put, under Thaksin, the ordinary Thais have tasted freedom and economic well being they never had while under the PAD sponsors, and they are never giving it back. That’s why the TRT or its incarnation will always win any elections in Thailand.
Your simple minded acceptance of the rheotoric of the PAD is really sad, given an assumed intellect – no wonder the paid old ladies that form the bulk of the PAD human shield can be duped
Frank – I address Frank, but the issue is wider than his debate with me and, in many respects I agree with Frank and want to add to what he says.
In criticizing a somewhat muted approach to PAD’s lawlessness I was pointing out that the PAD leadership was once for rule of law and it is now breaking many laws, every day, repeatedly, in the name of good governance. Jeez. When some of their hoods get their Uzis out (see Bangkok Post of last week for this reference) can we still say that they display a disregard the law or do we say more than that?
That PAD’s leadership are two-faced is what we might expect of a bunch of bankrupts, former mercenaries, religious cranks and so on.
[Here insert any statement one cares for acknowledging that Thaksin and his cronies occupy a similar space but with some different pejorative terms].
Violence to what end Frank? Democracy? Okay, but whose democracy are we likely to get? It seems like there are two varieties on offer at present (especially as the palace’s proposed third way seems to have no traction as it has no real commitment from the ones who really matter). PAD’s non-democratic “new politics” which is actually nothing more than “Thai-style democracy” that has been promoted for years by conservatives.
On the other side you have a group promoting democracy based on election results. Not a bad place to start, but then you might want to be PADite on this and say that elections are all corrupt and so are all of Thailand’s politicians, even those nice Dems .
Not much of a choice. (Especially as those clean cut lads running the Dems have no substance and no ideas to demonstrate.)
You might want to consider that violence may lead to many things other than these versions of democracy (or, indeed, however defined, but hopefully something that gives voice to the disenfranchised). It may lead to something much darker. You mention Burma and there are other examples of fascist control and repression. That could be dressed up as Thai-style government (a la Kukrit Pramoj’s propaganda for the Sarit dictatorship).
Fighting for what you have may be useful but I suspect that most in PAD prefer to fight for what they think they are losing. That might be the start of a quick trip down the dark path.
To repeat my observation: it’s now time for PAD “backers” to realize that the movement has become an uncontrollable monster which conveniently break laws while the police dare not do anything for fear of being accused of committing violence like in the 7 Oct clash. So far the authority wearing uniform (police) are helpless to act against this monster because they know who are the backers of this detestable movement. Now only the Red Shirts dare to provide a counter balance to PAD but this movement is playing its cards carefully and wait for the correct time to act. If there is a showdown leading to bloodshed, I would hold the “backers” responsible because these people fail to control PAD. Without these backers, Sonthi/Chamlong etc are now in jail.
Having cake and eating it too has been the hallmark of Thai politics since time began. Simplistically speaking, does anyone here honestly believe that Thailand can have a truly democratic society and form of government without violence? Even America’s ancestors settled that issue with a violent revolution – because the other side would not let go. We should be big enough to admit that in the LOS the elite are also not willing to let go. They are reaping as they sew. The PAD has taken a turn for the violent and it’s more than just a shame. It’s a tragedy. When they were first attacked physically, did the corrupt Thai police readily investigate and prosecute those who were guilty? I don’t believe so.
Thai authorities have built up a consistently bad reputation and habit of ignoring important human rights abuses and supporting those who keep on committing them. It’s a vicious cycle and begging the question by suddenly disclaiming the other side that is now using the same methodology – albeit in much smaller degree – is not logical.
No one should be using violence. But if Thailand is destined to become another Burma, blaming the PAD and crybaby-absolving the major wrong-doers in this standoff is hardly justified.
As I havae said in the past, the people who don’t want a change consist of many groups, including foreigners who live in an idyllic setting while their Thai counterparts face the music day in and day out. As well, there are the academics and others who rationalize either violence or peaceful means based on their own traditional way of handling such situations.
Looking at it from a strictly objective viewpoint, I would say today that the only way to effect change in Thailand is through the same way change has been prevented – by violence. Fighting fire with fire, so to speak. Am I advocating violence? No. Am I suggesting that it is the only way to deal with dictatorial Thai rulers who won’t ever allow democracy to bloom in Thailand? Yes. It’s not a comfortable conclusion, nor is it one easily made. But when you consider the fate of peoples in the region who have not fought for what they have, you get the idea…
PAD is showing its disregard for the law – a brilliant way to express it. Come on Frank, these are the guys who once seriously called for rule of law, and now they are flagrantly abusing it. It seems you can have your cake and eat it too.
PAD (invisible) backers are now wondering whether it is still worthwhile to continue supporting this cult movement. In one day alone, they cut power lines to parliament, hijacked buses, and worst being assaulting a police colonel. So far there is no word that the two PAD members who recently died of bomb explosions will get a royally sponsored funeral, unlike the earlier ones who died in clashes with police. With today’s assault against the police colonel at Don Muang, the whole world can now ask: who is using violence ? Try to ask this question to The Nation daily newspaper !
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Violence, non-violence and the PAD’s “last battle”
hi Nick,
thanks again for your excellent diligence in being there and in reporting clearly and fairly!
just a couple of requests for information….
“gathering at Wat Suan Gaeow was attended by about 23,000 people, many families, mostly from Bangkok and surrounding provinces.”
where did the estimate of 23,000 come from…
I was there and this is a plausible number, the people were spread through the bush so real hard to count… except at the (2?) entries
and
“in at least two of the recent explosions at Government House there is clear evidence that they were caused by conflicts between the guards.”
do you have sources for the clear evidence, were you there doing your on the spot checking?
and I think I have to repost my statement about illegal protests…
After the Nov 7 tragedy at Parliament House, the Police have been
subject to an unfair campaign by the media and the NHRC to claim that the powers of the Police to disperse armed and violent protests must be limited to non-violent methods.
The Administrative Court made five judgements after that event, 3 of
them declaring that:
the PAD protest was illegal, armed and not peaceful and
the police were authorised to disperse them.
Also, in the last 2 judgements, the court did not say that violence
could not be used, it said: ;
police actions must be proportionate.
To my knowledge the media (and the NHRC) have not published anything of the first 3 judgements which directly contradict claims repeatedly made by the PAD.
Regarding the last 2 judgements, the media, the PAD and even the NHRC have variously stated that the Police cannot use force against the PAD.
All these judgements are important, because in International practise
the actions of police for dispersing peaceful and unarmed protests are
limited.
But where protestors are armed, police actions must be extended to
whatever is necessary to achieve the dispersal.
Protesters must expect that lethal weapons will be available to the
police and will be used by the police if any of the protesters use
lethal weapons… glass balls from sling shots and machetes are lethal
in the right circumstances and, as we know sadly, a sharpened stick can also be lethal to kill a policeman.
I notice that Khun Chamlong has announced he has ordered his guards not to be armed while protesting today. So he is obviously sensitive to the legal and physical risks.
But, we have already seen video that show guards carrying weapons, so either the guards are ignoring his orders or there are secret instructions.
I believe the police were shocked at the effects of the “weapons grade”
tear gas last time, but armed protesters must expect tear gas to be used.
Was this “faulty tear gas supplied and used by the Border Patrol Police, which are under command of the military and have an infamous history?
Protesters must expect water cannon to be used.
The BMA permitted the PAD to use fire trucks for training so they should now be available to the Police?
Protesters must be fully aware that even just sitting where they are,
because they are associated with an armed insurrection, what they are doing is illegal.
Are they that bankrupt?
if they are separate they should be charged at full market rates for everything they use and abuse
rent and damages at GH
use of roads and footpaths
(ab)use of public busses
etc…..
Kilt
thank you….
even more food for thought about our imperfect world…
Violence, non-violence and the PAD’s “last battle”
Good photo shots, Nick, and thanks for them, especially the first one showing the megalomaniac PAD boss Sonthi standing with arms akimbo. From the way he stands, we can understand what he thinks — he thinks Thailand belongs to him and he does not care what happens to the country as long as he gets what he wants. The same is true with other PAD leaders especially Chamlong, the misguided holy ascetic that even his old buddy Panlop has decided to abandon him
As I am writing now at 6:20 pm local time, we can see on tv how PAD is trying to block the new airport while poor foreign tourists have to get off their vehicles and walk to catch their flights. Is this the kind of democracy that Sonthi wants ? Anyway, we need lots of support from democratic people outside Thailand in case another coup takes place within a few days’ time.
What next in Thai politics?
Koon Sidh
I don’t miss anything, just like to see the bigger picture. being a trans-national for the last 25 years has made me see the light and the PAD is a dark cloud indeed.
I was in pakistan when Zia Ul haq (remember him) plane got bomed out of the sky.
Slept under the bed in a manila5 star hotel, financial district, during the military coup – end of marcos era
I was in kathmandu when the price hosed down the rest of the royal family with a machine gun
Been in Indonesia through a lot of riots
Now living in malaysia when the opposition party finally made in-roads into the governing system – won state govt in 5 states. (racial riots in 1969 – had a couple of weeks off school hurray!)
Guess what – all the blood shed perpetrated by mobs, demonstration etc did not do any good to anyone except set everyone back several decades. ordinary citizens are suffering and will suffer more
People who go to these PAD type mob gathering consist of die hards, paid ignorant, and a bunch of instigators to keep spirit up. None really know what’s going on and what is the real agenda behind the so call leaders. Going thru the name list of the so call PAD leaders will show that the agenda is not so “kohsher” and harping on Thaksin is simply a rallying cry – nothing more
Violence, non-violence and the PAD’s “last battle”
You fail to point out, however, that being anti-Thaksin has absolutely nothing to do with supporting PAD’s lunacy. As far as I’m concerned, the fight to prevent a common criminal from again becoming PM has nothing to do with PAD’s popularity. Especially as … Sonthi was once part of the Thaksin parasitic regime. Indeed, I’m almost inclined to let Thaksin return on the grounds that he will almost certainly wish after that he had stayed in some couldn’t care-less place like Dubai , China or the Bahamas. Many Non-PAD people are also stubborn in their resolve to acheive something better than the current political chaos. And lest we forget, it was Thaksin who fomented this mess. he only has himself to blame.
The beginning of the end for PAD?
Good points Frank. KhunHC Lau, you’ve never addressed the shortened list of PMThaksin/TRT abuses of power and conflicts of interests that I asked you to that is RECENT Thai history that led to today’s deep conflicts… Until you do so, you have no right to call anyone “simple minded”…
The beginning of the end for PAD?
hai Frank,
I still think you should read up on recent Thai political history – just a couple od decades before TRT would do. Please have a notebook and take down names of the “leadership”
(Thai) Democracy: Crisis and Renewal
Whoops, the reply to Doglover I referred to in #12 has not passed NM’s censors (yet)? (There was nothing controversial there).
Anyway, KhunJoy, thankyou for your comments – and I agree with your sentiments and that “national unity” should not exclude cultural diversity. And at the end of day, even if PMThaksin was originally from Chiang Mai, the current political civil war is between groups of Bangkok-based elites and their interests. The rest of the country is being held ransom as usual. Maybe this also reflects the failure of previous decentralizations of power and the local elections at the OrBorTor level – where line/layers of patronage always link back to manipulative Bangkok/urban Thai based elites? Perhaps until we have a strong laborers/farmers movement that translate into direct political representation, this will always be the case…
Ralph, religion was always there… Dhammakaya (pro-business) and Santi-Asoke (militant-prohibitionists)…
The beginning of the end for PAD?
Frank Anderson’s long view is reasonably debatable, but he neglects the medium term, say, the next 10 years or so. Let’s go back to the original (2008 edition) anti-PAD meme — sprung from the NBT takeover attempt — its actions constitute mob rule. We can cut the crap about civil disobedience, non-violence, ahimsa — does anybody seriously believe they apply to the PAD’s approach?
With the tacit endorsement of the Thai establishment — most clearly evidenced in court decisions and the stand taken by various public intellectuals — mob rule had been validated. The fallout from this is already visible in the so far mostly verbal stirrings of the red shirts.
The PAD has also promoted a culture of hate and contempt, in the speeches from the PAD stage and page of their house organs, The Manager newspaper and web site. Again, its spread is readily visible.
It’s pretty clear that the main legacy of the PAD is divisiveness. Perhaps FA’s point is that you have to shatter something to rebuild it better. But I’m not convinced that the PAD has planned beyond the shattering stage.
Violence, non-violence and the PAD’s “last battle”
It is time to realise that the PAD is also fighting for power and not simply an anti-Thaksin/PPP movement. I find it really strange that PAD has never listed potential PMs or caretaker governments in their list of requests for the government. Instead, it is protests against PMs and the ruling coalition without stating what it requires explicitly. By bringing in such a strategy, PAD is not in power but is controlling it by the amount of protests it can stage. Let assume that Somchai steps down and another caretaker PM, whoever he is, takes over (as I have pointed out earlier, PAD has never stated what they want in a PM other than bashing Samak/Somchai as puppets of Thaksin). Do you think the PAD will stop protesting? PAD does not have a clear goal of what it wants despite its claims.
Obviously this support for PAD is slowly dwindling as we can see from various sources and articles. While considering the future of PAD and Thai politics is important, it is also crucial for us to look into the causes of the dwindling support. Is it because of ideological divides between the PAD? Or is it because of the toil of the economic situation? Whatever the case, it may jolly well point to the fact that at the end of the day, the PAD is just a selfish organization seeking power while ignoring “morals” (which they claim they are fighting for) and the plights of its own “supporters”.
It is perhaps also more useful to treat Thai politics from a different perspective. It is not simply a “lose-lose” situation for the government and the PAD but rather, a “i lose and therefore you cannot win” situation.
Are they that bankrupt?
I am 100% with them. Why should they pay? They belong to another nation not to this Kingdom. Is it not true that they have their own ruling, their own Police, their own leaders, their own everything. One day I saw one PAD protester carrying a poster saying” We are the owners of Thailand”. This says all!!!
Poor country that bows to this kind of people.
The beginning of the end for PAD?
Ah, a simplistic response. Paid old ladies…no arguing against this kind of logic. All yours!
The beginning of the end for PAD?
Frank,
Please read up on recent Thai political history – before TRT.
The PAD leaders and members and thugs, whom you hold in such great regard were the corrupt rip them off govt whom you are condemning. They lost power and now the only way to get it back is thru violence (that you advocate)
Simply put, under Thaksin, the ordinary Thais have tasted freedom and economic well being they never had while under the PAD sponsors, and they are never giving it back. That’s why the TRT or its incarnation will always win any elections in Thailand.
Your simple minded acceptance of the rheotoric of the PAD is really sad, given an assumed intellect – no wonder the paid old ladies that form the bulk of the PAD human shield can be duped
The beginning of the end for PAD?
Frank – I address Frank, but the issue is wider than his debate with me and, in many respects I agree with Frank and want to add to what he says.
In criticizing a somewhat muted approach to PAD’s lawlessness I was pointing out that the PAD leadership was once for rule of law and it is now breaking many laws, every day, repeatedly, in the name of good governance. Jeez. When some of their hoods get their Uzis out (see Bangkok Post of last week for this reference) can we still say that they display a disregard the law or do we say more than that?
That PAD’s leadership are two-faced is what we might expect of a bunch of bankrupts, former mercenaries, religious cranks and so on.
[Here insert any statement one cares for acknowledging that Thaksin and his cronies occupy a similar space but with some different pejorative terms].
Violence to what end Frank? Democracy? Okay, but whose democracy are we likely to get? It seems like there are two varieties on offer at present (especially as the palace’s proposed third way seems to have no traction as it has no real commitment from the ones who really matter). PAD’s non-democratic “new politics” which is actually nothing more than “Thai-style democracy” that has been promoted for years by conservatives.
On the other side you have a group promoting democracy based on election results. Not a bad place to start, but then you might want to be PADite on this and say that elections are all corrupt and so are all of Thailand’s politicians, even those nice Dems .
Not much of a choice. (Especially as those clean cut lads running the Dems have no substance and no ideas to demonstrate.)
You might want to consider that violence may lead to many things other than these versions of democracy (or, indeed, however defined, but hopefully something that gives voice to the disenfranchised). It may lead to something much darker. You mention Burma and there are other examples of fascist control and repression. That could be dressed up as Thai-style government (a la Kukrit Pramoj’s propaganda for the Sarit dictatorship).
Fighting for what you have may be useful but I suspect that most in PAD prefer to fight for what they think they are losing. That might be the start of a quick trip down the dark path.
The beginning of the end for PAD?
To repeat my observation: it’s now time for PAD “backers” to realize that the movement has become an uncontrollable monster which conveniently break laws while the police dare not do anything for fear of being accused of committing violence like in the 7 Oct clash. So far the authority wearing uniform (police) are helpless to act against this monster because they know who are the backers of this detestable movement. Now only the Red Shirts dare to provide a counter balance to PAD but this movement is playing its cards carefully and wait for the correct time to act. If there is a showdown leading to bloodshed, I would hold the “backers” responsible because these people fail to control PAD. Without these backers, Sonthi/Chamlong etc are now in jail.
The beginning of the end for PAD?
Having cake and eating it too has been the hallmark of Thai politics since time began. Simplistically speaking, does anyone here honestly believe that Thailand can have a truly democratic society and form of government without violence? Even America’s ancestors settled that issue with a violent revolution – because the other side would not let go. We should be big enough to admit that in the LOS the elite are also not willing to let go. They are reaping as they sew. The PAD has taken a turn for the violent and it’s more than just a shame. It’s a tragedy. When they were first attacked physically, did the corrupt Thai police readily investigate and prosecute those who were guilty? I don’t believe so.
Thai authorities have built up a consistently bad reputation and habit of ignoring important human rights abuses and supporting those who keep on committing them. It’s a vicious cycle and begging the question by suddenly disclaiming the other side that is now using the same methodology – albeit in much smaller degree – is not logical.
No one should be using violence. But if Thailand is destined to become another Burma, blaming the PAD and crybaby-absolving the major wrong-doers in this standoff is hardly justified.
As I havae said in the past, the people who don’t want a change consist of many groups, including foreigners who live in an idyllic setting while their Thai counterparts face the music day in and day out. As well, there are the academics and others who rationalize either violence or peaceful means based on their own traditional way of handling such situations.
Looking at it from a strictly objective viewpoint, I would say today that the only way to effect change in Thailand is through the same way change has been prevented – by violence. Fighting fire with fire, so to speak. Am I advocating violence? No. Am I suggesting that it is the only way to deal with dictatorial Thai rulers who won’t ever allow democracy to bloom in Thailand? Yes. It’s not a comfortable conclusion, nor is it one easily made. But when you consider the fate of peoples in the region who have not fought for what they have, you get the idea…
The beginning of the end for PAD?
PAD is showing its disregard for the law – a brilliant way to express it. Come on Frank, these are the guys who once seriously called for rule of law, and now they are flagrantly abusing it. It seems you can have your cake and eat it too.
The beginning of the end for PAD?
No sympathy for PAD! No sympathy for Thaksin! These fools are destroying the futures of millions of people with their bone-headed criminal greed!
The beginning of the end for PAD?
PAD (invisible) backers are now wondering whether it is still worthwhile to continue supporting this cult movement. In one day alone, they cut power lines to parliament, hijacked buses, and worst being assaulting a police colonel. So far there is no word that the two PAD members who recently died of bomb explosions will get a royally sponsored funeral, unlike the earlier ones who died in clashes with police. With today’s assault against the police colonel at Don Muang, the whole world can now ask: who is using violence ? Try to ask this question to The Nation daily newspaper !