I have a question for Jon Fernquist, with whom I once worked in Chiang Rai.
While we were both there, a drug dealer who laundered the money through his tangerine farm was arrested. He was also somewhat prominent among the local elites.
This has been brought up in conversations I have had as proof that the drug war also took down big time drug dealers, not just impoverished Akha and Wa couriers. I dimly recall that there was something else going on with his case, but do not remember.
Do you remember the particulars? While I completely agree with your outrage about the “extra-judicial” part, I wonder how that prosecution of the tangerine farmer fits in with the “big fish” issue.
Mr. Latt would have been far better off if he would have made his way into the Karen State (Republic of Kawthoolei).
Once there he could have taken rifle in hand and truly fought to free Burma but now he will perhaps perish in a Burmese prison, without ever getting the chance to ever stike back at the Junta.
Only through armed struggle can the Burmese become free, if anyone thinks differently then they are the ones who need to go to , what the Junta calls “Myanmar “and see for themselves the cruel repression .
Bulls eye! The Guardian article is dead right spot on.
There were two crucial points in the recent time line of Burmese politics. In 1988, U Nu, Ex-general Aung Gyi, and ASSK collectively squandered the rare and only opportunity to lead Burma out of doldrums while the army was on its knees just after the sudden collapse of Ne Win’s Socialist government and aftermath of a massive popular uprising where many thousands of lives were lost.
The dialogues with the army were publicly offered later to the ASSK and NLD before Than Shwe led SLORC becoming self-assured of itself with the policy about turn of China and its massive support, but NLD has chosen to fight head on than negotiate with the only surving institution, aka army, in Burma.
By trying to isolate the army and also the country by morally and politically authorizing the economic and political sanctions by the West where she is extremely popular, ASSK led NLD has played itself miserably into the brutal and calculated hands of Mad Generals.
His name is Nay Phone Latt and he was convicted of contravening a public law act by posting a cartoon of the head of the Burmese military junta, senior general Than Shwe, on his blog. He supposedly owns two Internet Cafes in Thin-gan-gyun, a satellite township in Rangoon.
His colleague, Thin July Kyaw, was sentenced to two years imprisonment while two weeks ago three defence lawyers were sentenced to between four to six months in prison.
It appears that after letting some Burmese bloggers from Rangoon operate almost freely for a while the SPDC is now cracking down on them with vengeance!
I have just read the interview with Biff Keyes, whom I have always admired as an important conceptualizer in Asia Studies and a very fine person. The intervew was excellent, and I congratulate all concerned.
The election of Barack Obama as America’s first African-American President will be a real test, not only for White America, but also for the rest of the world in accepting a Black man as a leader of the most powerful and influential nation on the planet.
The test for White America will be one of real “sincerity” in “really” accepting President Obama as “their” President.
Despite the excitement over his nomination, America still has deep rooted problems with racism and White supremacy that may not be so apparent to those living in other lands. These will not go away over night.
Most White folk who voted for Obama did so for selfish reasons: They did so for what he could do for “them”; to rescue “them” from job loss and home foreclosure. It was not primarily for the good of all Americans . Whites in America have for generations held positions of “privilege” in America and, indeed, the world. A luxury non-White Americans did not – and still- do not have. This will be a very difficult for White Americans share.
That many White Americans still do not understand the “Black” experience in America and growing up Black in America was seen at the handling of Barack Obama’s association with Rev. Wright and the congregation he belonged to.
The Black church in America has been (and still is) a voice for social inequalities and injustices in America. Barack Obama was raised in such an environment but he was essentially asked to disassociate himself from Rev. Wright and his church family. Wow!
That act was like asking him to stop being who he is: A Black man from humble beginnings. That act told most African Americans that White America still harbors deep-beneath-the-skin paranoia, suspicion, and disinterest in Black folk. It was almost as if they wanted to stand Barack Obama up, dust the Black off of him and paint him White.
The test for the rest of the world, especially in “some” places in Asia, will be one of “acceptance.” As a world traveler, I know that White folk are looked up to as a standard to be followed. The several years I spent in Thailand, this was very evident. You do not see commercials or advertisements on billboards, TV, and magazines with Black people in them. Dark skin is not a preferred color (not even among their own). It is a very difficult thing for a Black person to get a job as a teacher; many Thai parents do not want their children taught by Blacks. Black people, in general, are viewed as “unintelligent” and “incapable” of positions of leadership. White folk are viewed as the “masters of the universe” in many ways. To such an extent that many Thais go to great lengths to change their skin color and avoid being tanned by the sun. I believe that many of these prejudices where introduced into Thailand by White folk who for generations have visited and lived in the country.
So, will Barack Obama “really” be respected in this part of the world? This will be a real test.
I am proud of President Obama’s election. I am proud that he has presented himself as a family man; not one with a silver spoon up his backside as many Presidents before him have.
Barack Obama, as a Black man, knows the deal with the “real” causes of what ails American society. He will not be able to fix them all. In fact, only a few, if he is lucky.
The status quo in America will somehow find away to “Take Back (White) America.
The bottom line is this: America is a very much so racially intolerant and suffers from the dreaded disease of White Supremacy; and if White America cannot mold Barack Obama into what “they” want him to be, they will quickly turn on him.
I equate it to a Black person buying a house in an all White neighborhood. White folks in those neighborhoods don’t like; and once that Black person moves in, he will be watched like a hawk; and in some cases even harassed until he can’t take the harassment anymore and moves out.
Well, the White House is such a closed community. Barack Obama will be watched and scrutinized more than any President to occupy that position; and for one reason: The color of his skin.
I hope he makes it for four years. I hope he will not age 20 years. I hope.
Does anybody know what this guy actually said? This is obviously very sad, but I’m hoping it gets well-publicized in the Western media and brings further popular support to the Burmese cause. I am from the States, and if you asked anybody about Tibet they’d at least have an idea about it. If you brought up Burma or Myanmar, even just six months after Nargis, you’d probably get a blank stare.
As the old saying goes, it takes two to tango. For those critical of ASSK and her approach, please explain exactly with whom there is to be dialogue. Ne Win? Saw Maung? Than Shwe?
The reason there is no state structure in Burma is because the military systematically removed it, unlike Indonesia. I think Jon Fernquest said it best:
“Please study the “Burmese Way to Socialism” which eventually became the “Burmese Way to Present Deplorable Human Rights State of Burma” with no dissent allowed at all.”
Lau: “we have differing opinion as to the degree of harshness drug lords should be dealt with”
In fact, we do not. You miss the point entirely. There is nothing more idiotic than someone agreeing with an extrajudicial execution, with the logic or lack of logic running: they shot him therefore he is guilty. Execution without trial, police being the judge, jury and executioner, is a completely separate issue from “harshness.” That rural folk can’t see this and at the same time listen to monks that praise killing (there were some) is ipso facto proof that some are in fact stupid. Sorry there is no other word for this. Winichakul says: “The disgruntled urban elite believe that the rural folks are, in their words, too ignorant and stupid for democracy” but knows absolutely nothing about this. Has he lived in these areas? Can he list any of the problems in these areas besides the ones he has read in some sterile academic paper?
Here is a test from a real incident. Choose the right answer. Three kids get shot in the head and dumped out of a pickup behind the hospital morgue. Everyone says the police were extrajudicially executing gang members. Answers: a. This is a harsh penalty therefore good (your answer), b. They deserve a trial and to have evidence presented before being executed, maybe they didn’t do it, c. the police know more than we do and criticising them will undermine their authority and means that you yourself are a criminal, we don’t need judges because police are good judges and a trial is unnecessary, just a waste of time.
Hi Nicholas – I’ve just come across your blog, which looks like a welcome addition to my daily online trawl.
The Guardian piece is thought-provoking although it strikes me as pursuing iconoclasm for its own sake. The real problem is not with Aung San Suu Kyi’s leadership skills but with the unreasonable expectations that have been put on her by Burmese and international activists.
In the binary view of many journalists and Western Burma activists, the junta can only lead to the destruction of Burma while Aung San Suu Kyi represents the sole route to national salvation.
But, in reality, the main challenge that Burma faces is the fact that it is a country without a functioning state apparatus (save for the Army), as depicted by Mary P. Callahan. A simple change of regime, even if it were to happen in a peaceful and orderly manner, would not even begin resolve many of the country’s issues.
Because Aung San Suu Kyi has been represented in the West as an almost goddess-like, Gandhi/Dalai Lama-esque celebrity peace activist, far too much is expected of her. That is not, however, through any fault of her own.
HC Lau: I try not to comment on Thai politics anymore, but ….. Regarding the tax free sale – IMO, the ultimate sale is tax free, but not the Ample Rich transaction that preceded it.
I recall previous discussions here, or over ar Baggkok Pundit’s site, if you are interested in getting more detail.
“Sale of ShinCorp without paying a baht of tax (the start of his downfall”
For your information, there is no capital gains tax for shares sale in Thailand. Sondhi don’t pay tax for any shares sale, and neither do any of Thaksin’s critics for sale of shares. What amazes me is that the so call intellects failed to notice that the sale is simply not taxable under Thai law. (by the way, neither is tax payable for shares sale in malaysia)
Why is then Thaksin singled out for tax liability???
I won’t go into the drug war, as we have differing opinion as to the degree of harshness drug lords should be dealt with (refer colombia / mexico)
Well, in the case of Harry Nicolaides, we could always just hope for the mercy of His Majesty the King or the will of the people. Oh snap, did I just commit lese majeste by implicitly pressuring the King to grant Harry a pardon? 🙂
Oh, really? More than you, or I, or my taxi driver, or your average Buddhist general down the block?
Maybe (and just maybe) he talks the talk, but what evidence is there that he walks the walk?
Specifically, can you cite any public (or private) opposition by His Majesty to the assassination campaign against the left in 1974-76? Dismay for the Thammasat massacre? Speaking out against the not so occasional brutal treatment of Vietnamese boat people and Cambodian refugees in the late 70s and 80s?
Ah, perhaps you are referring to his belated and mild turnaround on Thaksin’s drug war?
On a separate note, maybe you could convince Ajarn Thak and/or Northern Illinois University to put his article online and in the public domain. I’m sure many people would like to read it, but it doesn’t appear to be easily accessible. Perhaps you could even bootleg a scan of it, law-abiding though you may be.
What is new about Winichakul’s op-ed piece? It just repeats the same mantra and issues we’ve been hearing for years with nothing really new.
HC Lau: “govt is about improving the lot of the people as a whole and Thaksin managed to do just that”
Government is also about rule of law, rulers not using the state as their personal money making machine, about not encouraging the police to kill or allow people to be killed in an extrajudicial fashion (make a death list and everyone on the list dies and then say you didn’t do it?). About not hitting everyone who criticises you with a defamation suit. About not secretly using lese majeste a weapon (this is what Silak Suvaraksa claims in his Bangkok Post op-ed piece “Institution of monarchy and lese majeste” today)….
Sidh: “I’m afraid polishing PMThakin’s “shiniest side” while keeping ignoring his “darkest side” is not a path for peace and reconciliation.”
Exactly Sidh. Thaksin is history. People object when 10 to 30 people died extrajudicially in the Burmese so-called Saffron Revolution. That was the rounding error in Thaksin’s democratically popular drug war, a rounding error that many innocent people got caught up in. Choose between a murky “democratic” Thaksin police state or a military state subservient to a king who abhors violence. That’s a no brainer. Winichakul always uses his pulpit to frame issues in a certain way. For the real story: Read Thak Chaloemtiarana “Distinctions with a Difference: The Despotic Paternalism of Sarit Thanarat and the Demagogic Authoritarianism of Thaksin Shinawatra,” Crossroads, 19:1 (2007), pp. 50-94.
Thanks for reiterating the “shiny” side, we can agree on that – can you now comment on the following:
– Southern Unrest (Krue-sae, Takbai, Sabai-Yoi, Police kidnappings (e.g. Somchai Neelapaijit)?)?
– War on Drugs’ ‘collateral damages’ where many, innocent or not, have been convicted and executed without trial?
– Abuse of power and rendering democratic parliamentary, Senate mechanisms and checks and balances meaningless e.g. Liverpool buying saga to coverup CTX?
– Conflict of interests in various government-business dealings – Sale of ShinCorp without paying a baht of tax (the start of his downfall – few seem to mind PMThaksin’s populist policies, but they won’t take it when it’s their taxes and not his that pays for it)? Remember the sale of PTT shares (and who benefited)? EXIM Bank loan? Remember the “we have no bird flu and I’ll eat fried chicken to prove” it episode?
– The suing of various activists and journalist for inexorbitant sums? He’s still suing, mind you, but won’t take it like a man when decisions go against him…
– His highly devisive tendencies that he has admitted himself “We will serve areas that vote for us first” recaptured in today’s Chai Ratchawat’s political cartoon in Thairath:
Just a few of his “darkest side” from the top of my head – and some of the reasons why many, mainly urban-based Thais (even before the PAD phenomenon) will not agree with your “Thailand’s best prime minister” judgment…
Look KhunHC Lau, I totally agree with your assessment of his shiniest side and that much more of the state budget should be put into the rural sector for the betterment of the poorest – but please don’t try to white-wash PMThaksin’s and cronies’ crimes. Yes the military, police and other politicians are corrupt, but that does not mean we should let PMThaksin off the hook. As the most powerful prime minister in the country’s history, he must be held accountable to much highest standards, at least the high standards expected of him under the 1997 Constitution that he has worked under…
I am malaysian, my mother is Thai from the farming community in the south of Thailand. I have a whole bunch of relatives who are are farmers in the south, small business people and also some rather wealthy ones, whom I play golf with in bangkok. I have borne witness “first hand” to their living standard improvement (my poorer cousins) during the Thaksin era and the degradation after the 2006 coup. I do not need a deep intellectual discourse to see that Thaksin is better for Thailand. Even my southern Thailand relatives have to grudgingly acknowledge that despite being anti-Thaksin.
At the end of the day, govt is about improving the lot of the people as a whole and Thaksin managed to do just that. The entire political scene in Thailand is corrupt. I have no illusion about that and the most corrupt is the military folllowed by the police. Anyone who thinks that the military is a guardian of good clean govt in Thailand are seriously kidding themselves or have their head stuck in the sand for too long.
All the cries for clean govt by the military is simply a smoke screen to cover their real motives – get rid of Thaksin – he is a thorn who was slowly dismantling many of the established power structures. (currupt is a given)
Freedom Against Censorship Thailand (FACT) has always felt Thailand’s lese majeste issue to be a core barometer of rights and freedoms. It is incumbent upon academics and activists, both local and international, of all stripes to work against this elemental censorship of free expression. In the current supposedly ‘Royalist’ climate, many people are too afraid to speak out.
Criticism does not always have to be negative. The YouTube videos blocked in Thailand for lese majeste are just juvenile. They don’t offer a mature commentary but that doesn’t mean they should be banned by Bangkok.
The King will not fall by YouTube videos. The monarchy is strong enough to protect itself without the interference of bureaucrats
Is this article available in Thai?
I circulated it among some friends, and they are as enthusiastic as many NM readers are. A copy in Thai would be quite popular.
You should read the G20 communique coming out on the 15th November that vows collectively not to take a protectionist stance. The G7 will probably follow and do the same I would guess:
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Anti-democracy in Thailand
I have a question for Jon Fernquist, with whom I once worked in Chiang Rai.
While we were both there, a drug dealer who laundered the money through his tangerine farm was arrested. He was also somewhat prominent among the local elites.
This has been brought up in conversations I have had as proof that the drug war also took down big time drug dealers, not just impoverished Akha and Wa couriers. I dimly recall that there was something else going on with his case, but do not remember.
Do you remember the particulars? While I completely agree with your outrage about the “extra-judicial” part, I wonder how that prosecution of the tangerine farmer fits in with the “big fish” issue.
20 years in prison for blogging
Mr. Latt would have been far better off if he would have made his way into the Karen State (Republic of Kawthoolei).
Once there he could have taken rifle in hand and truly fought to free Burma but now he will perhaps perish in a Burmese prison, without ever getting the chance to ever stike back at the Junta.
Only through armed struggle can the Burmese become free, if anyone thinks differently then they are the ones who need to go to , what the Junta calls “Myanmar “and see for themselves the cruel repression .
A provocative article on The Lady
Bulls eye! The Guardian article is dead right spot on.
There were two crucial points in the recent time line of Burmese politics. In 1988, U Nu, Ex-general Aung Gyi, and ASSK collectively squandered the rare and only opportunity to lead Burma out of doldrums while the army was on its knees just after the sudden collapse of Ne Win’s Socialist government and aftermath of a massive popular uprising where many thousands of lives were lost.
The dialogues with the army were publicly offered later to the ASSK and NLD before Than Shwe led SLORC becoming self-assured of itself with the policy about turn of China and its massive support, but NLD has chosen to fight head on than negotiate with the only surving institution, aka army, in Burma.
By trying to isolate the army and also the country by morally and politically authorizing the economic and political sanctions by the West where she is extremely popular, ASSK led NLD has played itself miserably into the brutal and calculated hands of Mad Generals.
20 years in prison for blogging
His name is Nay Phone Latt and he was convicted of contravening a public law act by posting a cartoon of the head of the Burmese military junta, senior general Than Shwe, on his blog. He supposedly owns two Internet Cafes in Thin-gan-gyun, a satellite township in Rangoon.
His colleague, Thin July Kyaw, was sentenced to two years imprisonment while two weeks ago three defence lawyers were sentenced to between four to six months in prison.
It appears that after letting some Burmese bloggers from Rangoon operate almost freely for a while the SPDC is now cracking down on them with vengeance!
Interview with Professor Charles Keyes
I have just read the interview with Biff Keyes, whom I have always admired as an important conceptualizer in Asia Studies and a very fine person. The intervew was excellent, and I congratulate all concerned.
David Steinberg
Georgetown University
Regional reaction to Obama
The election of Barack Obama as America’s first African-American President will be a real test, not only for White America, but also for the rest of the world in accepting a Black man as a leader of the most powerful and influential nation on the planet.
The test for White America will be one of real “sincerity” in “really” accepting President Obama as “their” President.
Despite the excitement over his nomination, America still has deep rooted problems with racism and White supremacy that may not be so apparent to those living in other lands. These will not go away over night.
Most White folk who voted for Obama did so for selfish reasons: They did so for what he could do for “them”; to rescue “them” from job loss and home foreclosure. It was not primarily for the good of all Americans . Whites in America have for generations held positions of “privilege” in America and, indeed, the world. A luxury non-White Americans did not – and still- do not have. This will be a very difficult for White Americans share.
That many White Americans still do not understand the “Black” experience in America and growing up Black in America was seen at the handling of Barack Obama’s association with Rev. Wright and the congregation he belonged to.
The Black church in America has been (and still is) a voice for social inequalities and injustices in America. Barack Obama was raised in such an environment but he was essentially asked to disassociate himself from Rev. Wright and his church family. Wow!
That act was like asking him to stop being who he is: A Black man from humble beginnings. That act told most African Americans that White America still harbors deep-beneath-the-skin paranoia, suspicion, and disinterest in Black folk. It was almost as if they wanted to stand Barack Obama up, dust the Black off of him and paint him White.
The test for the rest of the world, especially in “some” places in Asia, will be one of “acceptance.” As a world traveler, I know that White folk are looked up to as a standard to be followed. The several years I spent in Thailand, this was very evident. You do not see commercials or advertisements on billboards, TV, and magazines with Black people in them. Dark skin is not a preferred color (not even among their own). It is a very difficult thing for a Black person to get a job as a teacher; many Thai parents do not want their children taught by Blacks. Black people, in general, are viewed as “unintelligent” and “incapable” of positions of leadership. White folk are viewed as the “masters of the universe” in many ways. To such an extent that many Thais go to great lengths to change their skin color and avoid being tanned by the sun. I believe that many of these prejudices where introduced into Thailand by White folk who for generations have visited and lived in the country.
So, will Barack Obama “really” be respected in this part of the world? This will be a real test.
I am proud of President Obama’s election. I am proud that he has presented himself as a family man; not one with a silver spoon up his backside as many Presidents before him have.
Barack Obama, as a Black man, knows the deal with the “real” causes of what ails American society. He will not be able to fix them all. In fact, only a few, if he is lucky.
The status quo in America will somehow find away to “Take Back (White) America.
The bottom line is this: America is a very much so racially intolerant and suffers from the dreaded disease of White Supremacy; and if White America cannot mold Barack Obama into what “they” want him to be, they will quickly turn on him.
I equate it to a Black person buying a house in an all White neighborhood. White folks in those neighborhoods don’t like; and once that Black person moves in, he will be watched like a hawk; and in some cases even harassed until he can’t take the harassment anymore and moves out.
Well, the White House is such a closed community. Barack Obama will be watched and scrutinized more than any President to occupy that position; and for one reason: The color of his skin.
I hope he makes it for four years. I hope he will not age 20 years. I hope.
20 years in prison for blogging
Does anybody know what this guy actually said? This is obviously very sad, but I’m hoping it gets well-publicized in the Western media and brings further popular support to the Burmese cause. I am from the States, and if you asked anybody about Tibet they’d at least have an idea about it. If you brought up Burma or Myanmar, even just six months after Nargis, you’d probably get a blank stare.
A provocative article on The Lady
As the old saying goes, it takes two to tango. For those critical of ASSK and her approach, please explain exactly with whom there is to be dialogue. Ne Win? Saw Maung? Than Shwe?
The reason there is no state structure in Burma is because the military systematically removed it, unlike Indonesia. I think Jon Fernquest said it best:
“Please study the “Burmese Way to Socialism” which eventually became the “Burmese Way to Present Deplorable Human Rights State of Burma” with no dissent allowed at all.”
How does that allow for dialogue?
Anti-democracy in Thailand
Lau: “we have differing opinion as to the degree of harshness drug lords should be dealt with”
In fact, we do not. You miss the point entirely. There is nothing more idiotic than someone agreeing with an extrajudicial execution, with the logic or lack of logic running: they shot him therefore he is guilty. Execution without trial, police being the judge, jury and executioner, is a completely separate issue from “harshness.” That rural folk can’t see this and at the same time listen to monks that praise killing (there were some) is ipso facto proof that some are in fact stupid. Sorry there is no other word for this. Winichakul says: “The disgruntled urban elite believe that the rural folks are, in their words, too ignorant and stupid for democracy” but knows absolutely nothing about this. Has he lived in these areas? Can he list any of the problems in these areas besides the ones he has read in some sterile academic paper?
Here is a test from a real incident. Choose the right answer. Three kids get shot in the head and dumped out of a pickup behind the hospital morgue. Everyone says the police were extrajudicially executing gang members. Answers: a. This is a harsh penalty therefore good (your answer), b. They deserve a trial and to have evidence presented before being executed, maybe they didn’t do it, c. the police know more than we do and criticising them will undermine their authority and means that you yourself are a criminal, we don’t need judges because police are good judges and a trial is unnecessary, just a waste of time.
A provocative article on The Lady
Hi Nicholas – I’ve just come across your blog, which looks like a welcome addition to my daily online trawl.
The Guardian piece is thought-provoking although it strikes me as pursuing iconoclasm for its own sake. The real problem is not with Aung San Suu Kyi’s leadership skills but with the unreasonable expectations that have been put on her by Burmese and international activists.
In the binary view of many journalists and Western Burma activists, the junta can only lead to the destruction of Burma while Aung San Suu Kyi represents the sole route to national salvation.
But, in reality, the main challenge that Burma faces is the fact that it is a country without a functioning state apparatus (save for the Army), as depicted by Mary P. Callahan. A simple change of regime, even if it were to happen in a peaceful and orderly manner, would not even begin resolve many of the country’s issues.
Because Aung San Suu Kyi has been represented in the West as an almost goddess-like, Gandhi/Dalai Lama-esque celebrity peace activist, far too much is expected of her. That is not, however, through any fault of her own.
Anti-democracy in Thailand
HC Lau: I try not to comment on Thai politics anymore, but ….. Regarding the tax free sale – IMO, the ultimate sale is tax free, but not the Ample Rich transaction that preceded it.
I recall previous discussions here, or over ar Baggkok Pundit’s site, if you are interested in getting more detail.
Hobby
Anti-democracy in Thailand
“Sale of ShinCorp without paying a baht of tax (the start of his downfall”
For your information, there is no capital gains tax for shares sale in Thailand. Sondhi don’t pay tax for any shares sale, and neither do any of Thaksin’s critics for sale of shares. What amazes me is that the so call intellects failed to notice that the sale is simply not taxable under Thai law. (by the way, neither is tax payable for shares sale in malaysia)
Why is then Thaksin singled out for tax liability???
I won’t go into the drug war, as we have differing opinion as to the degree of harshness drug lords should be dealt with (refer colombia / mexico)
Lèse majesté: what is to be done?
Well, in the case of Harry Nicolaides, we could always just hope for the mercy of His Majesty the King or the will of the people. Oh snap, did I just commit lese majeste by implicitly pressuring the King to grant Harry a pardon? 🙂
Anti-democracy in Thailand
jonfernquest mentions:
>”…a king who abhors violence…”
Oh, really? More than you, or I, or my taxi driver, or your average Buddhist general down the block?
Maybe (and just maybe) he talks the talk, but what evidence is there that he walks the walk?
Specifically, can you cite any public (or private) opposition by His Majesty to the assassination campaign against the left in 1974-76? Dismay for the Thammasat massacre? Speaking out against the not so occasional brutal treatment of Vietnamese boat people and Cambodian refugees in the late 70s and 80s?
Ah, perhaps you are referring to his belated and mild turnaround on Thaksin’s drug war?
On a separate note, maybe you could convince Ajarn Thak and/or Northern Illinois University to put his article online and in the public domain. I’m sure many people would like to read it, but it doesn’t appear to be easily accessible. Perhaps you could even bootleg a scan of it, law-abiding though you may be.
Anti-democracy in Thailand
What is new about Winichakul’s op-ed piece? It just repeats the same mantra and issues we’ve been hearing for years with nothing really new.
HC Lau: “govt is about improving the lot of the people as a whole and Thaksin managed to do just that”
Government is also about rule of law, rulers not using the state as their personal money making machine, about not encouraging the police to kill or allow people to be killed in an extrajudicial fashion (make a death list and everyone on the list dies and then say you didn’t do it?). About not hitting everyone who criticises you with a defamation suit. About not secretly using lese majeste a weapon (this is what Silak Suvaraksa claims in his Bangkok Post op-ed piece “Institution of monarchy and lese majeste” today)….
Sidh: “I’m afraid polishing PMThakin’s “shiniest side” while keeping ignoring his “darkest side” is not a path for peace and reconciliation.”
Exactly Sidh. Thaksin is history. People object when 10 to 30 people died extrajudicially in the Burmese so-called Saffron Revolution. That was the rounding error in Thaksin’s democratically popular drug war, a rounding error that many innocent people got caught up in. Choose between a murky “democratic” Thaksin police state or a military state subservient to a king who abhors violence. That’s a no brainer. Winichakul always uses his pulpit to frame issues in a certain way. For the real story: Read Thak Chaloemtiarana “Distinctions with a Difference: The Despotic Paternalism of Sarit Thanarat and the Demagogic Authoritarianism of Thaksin Shinawatra,” Crossroads, 19:1 (2007), pp. 50-94.
Anti-democracy in Thailand
Dear HCLau,
Thanks for reiterating the “shiny” side, we can agree on that – can you now comment on the following:
– Southern Unrest (Krue-sae, Takbai, Sabai-Yoi, Police kidnappings (e.g. Somchai Neelapaijit)?)?
– War on Drugs’ ‘collateral damages’ where many, innocent or not, have been convicted and executed without trial?
– Abuse of power and rendering democratic parliamentary, Senate mechanisms and checks and balances meaningless e.g. Liverpool buying saga to coverup CTX?
– Conflict of interests in various government-business dealings – Sale of ShinCorp without paying a baht of tax (the start of his downfall – few seem to mind PMThaksin’s populist policies, but they won’t take it when it’s their taxes and not his that pays for it)? Remember the sale of PTT shares (and who benefited)? EXIM Bank loan? Remember the “we have no bird flu and I’ll eat fried chicken to prove” it episode?
– The suing of various activists and journalist for inexorbitant sums? He’s still suing, mind you, but won’t take it like a man when decisions go against him…
– His highly devisive tendencies that he has admitted himself “We will serve areas that vote for us first” recaptured in today’s Chai Ratchawat’s political cartoon in Thairath:
http://www.thairath.co.th/showcartoon.php?cat=983
Just a few of his “darkest side” from the top of my head – and some of the reasons why many, mainly urban-based Thais (even before the PAD phenomenon) will not agree with your “Thailand’s best prime minister” judgment…
Look KhunHC Lau, I totally agree with your assessment of his shiniest side and that much more of the state budget should be put into the rural sector for the betterment of the poorest – but please don’t try to white-wash PMThaksin’s and cronies’ crimes. Yes the military, police and other politicians are corrupt, but that does not mean we should let PMThaksin off the hook. As the most powerful prime minister in the country’s history, he must be held accountable to much highest standards, at least the high standards expected of him under the 1997 Constitution that he has worked under…
Anti-democracy in Thailand
dear Koon Sindh,
I am malaysian, my mother is Thai from the farming community in the south of Thailand. I have a whole bunch of relatives who are are farmers in the south, small business people and also some rather wealthy ones, whom I play golf with in bangkok. I have borne witness “first hand” to their living standard improvement (my poorer cousins) during the Thaksin era and the degradation after the 2006 coup. I do not need a deep intellectual discourse to see that Thaksin is better for Thailand. Even my southern Thailand relatives have to grudgingly acknowledge that despite being anti-Thaksin.
At the end of the day, govt is about improving the lot of the people as a whole and Thaksin managed to do just that. The entire political scene in Thailand is corrupt. I have no illusion about that and the most corrupt is the military folllowed by the police. Anyone who thinks that the military is a guardian of good clean govt in Thailand are seriously kidding themselves or have their head stuck in the sand for too long.
All the cries for clean govt by the military is simply a smoke screen to cover their real motives – get rid of Thaksin – he is a thorn who was slowly dismantling many of the established power structures. (currupt is a given)
Lèse majesté: what is to be done?
Freedom Against Censorship Thailand (FACT) has always felt Thailand’s lese majeste issue to be a core barometer of rights and freedoms. It is incumbent upon academics and activists, both local and international, of all stripes to work against this elemental censorship of free expression. In the current supposedly ‘Royalist’ climate, many people are too afraid to speak out.
Criticism does not always have to be negative. The YouTube videos blocked in Thailand for lese majeste are just juvenile. They don’t offer a mature commentary but that doesn’t mean they should be banned by Bangkok.
The King will not fall by YouTube videos. The monarchy is strong enough to protect itself without the interference of bureaucrats
Anti-democracy in Thailand
Is this article available in Thai?
I circulated it among some friends, and they are as enthusiastic as many NM readers are. A copy in Thai would be quite popular.
Regional reaction to Obama
You should read the G20 communique coming out on the 15th November that vows collectively not to take a protectionist stance. The G7 will probably follow and do the same I would guess:
http://rodrik.typepad.com/dani_rodriks_weblog/2008/11/the-g-20-communiqu-of-november-15th.html