From today’s Irrawaddy: “The PAD will not hold talks with the government or anyone,” said Somsak Kosaisuk, one of the five core leaders of the group. “The PAD will talk only after Samak has resigned,” he said.”
Obviously Land of Snarls is not an avid viewer of Thai TV. The king is regularly shown making speeches and is more regularly heard making speeches. During June and July there were quite a few.
The Manager newspaper already has an (implicit) anti-Chang Noi in the edition of September 3. The headline reads “Civil disobedience against political business and pseudo-democracy.” The article confirms the view that voters in up-country towns and rural areas are uneducated and poor, and thus under the influence of powerful figures. Voting depends on money being paid to the voters (ngoen mai ma ka mai pen). Therefore, things such as “coming from elections” and “democracy” really are only about “pseudo-democracy” (and thus don’t need to be accepted).
There is a story going around Bangkok at present, that, having listened to Samak’s speech in Hua Hin last weekend, HMK asked, “Are you finished?” Samak is said to have replied in the affirmative, whereupon HMK rose and left without a word.
Of course this is gossip, but IMHO, if it’s true there is a pretty clear message in it: ‘You were elected to govern – get out & govern!’
It could be that at this end of a long and frustrating reign, HMK is now resolved to let his people take full responsibility for their actions & bear the consequences.
Of course, that’s only one interpretation of the aforesaid gossip. Others could be more forceful. Was he saying, ‘cut the bullshit’? (Is PAD really responsible for the airport closures? Who placed the bomb at Government House? Was the murder of an anti-PAD protester really perpetrated by a PAD supporter? )
Your “…King Bhumipol gives regular speeeches…,” while semantically correct (every 5th Dec.), might be taken to imply that he speaks often. In fact he speaks to the nation rarely. The April 2006 speech to which you refer did not instruct the judiciary how to vote. It reminded them that whichever way they chose to vote, the finding would be unpopular, so they might as well vote according to their best interpretation of the law. They appear to have done so, and have been criticized for it ever since, but it could be argued that the judiciary has been showing signs of increased independence and transparency ever since.
Personally I don’t like him, but I agree with you that Samak has acted with restraint, and this is to his credit. I’m sure nobody wants piles of corpses of bourgeois old ladies, retired gentlemen, and teenage students further clogging up the traffic around Ratchadamnoen.
As for the PPP – NPK link, I think it’s always been obvious. Their leaders who go on stage to speak have included PPP MPs, eg. Krung Srivilai and gov-related persons, eg. Uthai Saegkaew, younger brother of Deputy Transport Minister.
If Nor Por Kor = PPP, does PAD=Democrats? Democrat MPs have also been speaking on stage at PAD rallies.
May I suggest the more relevant: Korea’s Place in the Sun by historian Bruce Cumings.
Has two separate narratives in the book devoted to industrialization and the democratic movement. Democracy won in the end, after the country reached a fairly well-developed economic state. Protests, tear gas, and riot police. Furthermore, the US was completely complicit in this process, the most notable example being the Kwangju massacre of the 1980s.
tha khun yang mai kwao jai nai panha kwam khat yaeng nie. tham mai phra chao yue hua thung mai sadaeng kwam hen . sadaeng wa khun yang mai kwao jai sangkom thai yang thae jeng. plake jai mak wa ma suksa sangkom thai nan tae yang kwao mai thung kwam subson nai kongsang baeb muang thai.
kan mai pood kue kan pood. bang the mee palang kwa kan pood. And the king cannot said anything right now.
From where is stand right now, i care less and less about principles. I just found out that one of the guys that got killed that night i have joked around with only half an hour before he was beaten to death, while i took photos of his group of friends. That gives me a more than an uncomfortable feeling.
That night i have seen murder in the eyes of the people of both sides, and that hasn’t yet completely sunk in – at the march of the UDD i have accompanied, and during the clashes.
It was simply insane. I have most of the time of the heavy fighting duck at an entrance of the UN building where i was caught between the lines when PAD overran the UDD guys. Projectiles flew around, and guns were fired uncomfortably close.
There was a PAD guy with completely crazed eyes running towards us, his iron bar raised in his hands. I have just held my hands up, and shouted at him repeatedly in Thai that i am a journalist, and after a short while he turned away and kept on chasing the UDD guys.
A bit later, when the cops have managed to get in between during a lull, the UDD guys have captured a PAD guy, and started stomping him to the ground. Some UDD guards tried to protect him from the onslaught of the crowd. I took first several pics, stopped taking pictires when i realised how serious this was, and then also tried to stop people from the crowd. The UDD guards managed to get him then into one of the waiting Watchila ambulances.
And this, i fear, is nothing against what may come. So, excuse me please, for me this is not about principles anymore, but how to find a solution so that we won’t see this sort of thing anymore.
Violence is the way of both camps. Please do not excuse the actions of the side you chose to support. This whole situation is inexcusable, and PAD has a very large part of responsibility, regardless any principle.
Perhaps the only way to express dissatisfaction with the PAD actions is to boycott the economic interests 0f those at the top of the PAD. Does anyone have a list of the companies controlled by the PAD leaders?
While it is great to have a moral instance like the King, what really worries me is the fact that in every crisis lately it needs a royal advice to get the different parties working out a solution. Politics should be done by adults able to talk and compromise, not like Kindergarten kids who always need their teacher to solve their fights. What will happen when the King cannot step in anymore, and a successor did not earn the respect needed to make everyone listen? Maybe His Majesty tries to prepare the country for these times by waiting and hoping that the combatants can find a compromise on their own, yet I am not much optimistic with the current cast on either side.
Your Point#1: Interesting again, though it would also be interesting to have you discuss why PAD “guards,” after repelling the mob, chased them down and ganged up on targets who fell, beating and kicking them, in one case to death (and there are several videos showing this, though I don’t know if they are shown on ASTV.)
Details of the Battlefield- it is a battelfield mechanics issue. Why pad guards will continue to beat the living daylights of an opponent is proportional to how much they were beaten at first – emotional factor- so no debate point. [I reccomend you to look at a reference movie: Saving Private Ryan- the GIs who were shot at in Omaha beach broke Geneva Conventions by firing on the Germans even if they surrendered. It was done on emotions, and by conventions not correct]
Your Point #2: People who define a struggle as good vs evil tend to be a bit scary in their close-mindedness and what lengths they are willing to go to in support of their struggle. (On a big scale, think Osama bin Laden and George W. Bush.)
As for Intelligence vs Blind/Bought, you are articulate, but friends who have interviewed a lot of PAD supporters down at Government House have trouble getting people to explain why they are there beyond “Thaksin and Samak are bad, they are immoral, I know because it was on ASTV.”
They also parrot what they hear from the stage about anyone who does not buy the PAD line hook, line and sinker (e.g., foreign media, Prof. Thitinan). The word that comes to my mind is “sheep,” not intelligence. What you are really doing is defining PAD supporters as intelligent because they are PAD supporters, right? Not a very strong debating point, I’m afraid.
It is scary how you fail to agree with the “PAD Parrots” that “Thaksin (and or Samak) are Dark Side” which are result of already quite intelligible conclusions with evidence.
I’m quite sure many have been Thaksin supporters before — Including Myself– and listen to the “Reds” radio quite often to understand them, so your point of “PAD being sheep that is close-mindedness and what lengths they are willing to go to in support of their struggle” may not be 100% true. Having been in both camps, understanding each parties motives, is already good enough to be above sheep level which you widely accuse;
My point is, the Intelligence comes from the search for Truths, the personal convincing of oneself, which I do believe many-most of PADs hold this conviction. (Having said that, however, I need to say that not all people in PAD have equal intelligence as we all in the world. That is why I mention, to simply stick to the Principles of it).
Your Point#3: Thai Political Watchdog/Bulldog…
I take it you mean that you support the idea that the legislature should be more an appointed body than an elected one. If that’s what you mean, please say so. If you mean something else, could you elaborate?
Nope, that’s not what I said or meant. That may be Sonthi’s thinking which was on a basis of eradicating Thaksinism should the majority of North and NorthEast people not have fair access to the Truth (which PPP want to keep these people as “sheeps”). If they have fair access to PAD information, I personally believe that this Appointed Body System is not necessary, and the Government, however elected, will be much cleaner than this current government.
What I meant is with PAD’s as Political Watchdog is, they have (by objective or not) instilled to the people of Thailand to be more active, and to help audit their own government from mischief. In the past, people just voted, and then left the government all the freedom to do things without scrutiny. Because of the PAD phenomenon, people have become more active and looking after their government and bad people will have to think twice before they even think of going into elections. And with this, everyone will win – if this Political Watchdog stays in a more limited role.
In general I think PAD is the best champion to correct whats wrong in Thai political situation and society at the moment; If you agree with me Thaksin is from the “Dark Side” and his system must be eradicated, My question to you is, do you have any better alternative to PAD? If you don’t agree with me on “Thaksin on the Dark Side”, then lets simply agree to disagree, to save NM debate space.
The real magic is in the silence. Royal intent becomes ‘rumour’. Anyone and everyone can claim a direct connection to “divine will” and say that the silent one is keeping silent for this reason or that reason. They can claim to be speaking in his name like spirit mediums. “The king told me to” is the new magic phrase giving power to the divine mob.
>Do you really have to stick your bossy nose in every country’s business?? PATHETIC.
>And all those Thais who disapprove the King, you can just live and die elsewhere but NOT in Thailand.
Yes, right.
And let’s also get rid of all those foreign inventions that culturally enslave Thailand, like cars and elevators and air conditioners, and then assemble a great army of elephant cavalry to take back what the Burmese, Cambodians and Lao stole from us so we can restore our mighty empire!
We know how to deal with those treacherous Thais who don’t support our nation-building plans, yes?
That’s what you really want to say, isn’t it, Prae?
Interesting again, though it would also be interesting to have you discuss why PAD “guards,” after repelling the mob, chased them down and ganged up on targets who fell, beating and kicking them, in one case to death (and there are several videos showing this, though I don’t know if they are shown on ASTV.)
>And for now, I think PAD is the only vehicle that I can use for corrective action to get the Basic Principles Right [Good Versus Evil, Intelligence vs Blind/Bought, Sustainable vs Short Term ], even though Breaking the Law [which seems to really hits NM’s nerves].
People who define a struggle as good vs evil tend to be a bit scary in their close-mindedness and what lengths they are willing to go to in support of their struggle. (On a big scale, think Osama bin Laden and George W. Bush.)
As for Intelligence vs Blind/Bought, you are articulate, but friends who have interviewed a lot of PAD supporters down at Government House have trouble getting people to explain why they are there beyond “Thaksin and Samak are bad, they are immoral, I know because it was on ASTV.”
They also parrot what they hear from the stage about anyone who does not buy the PAD line hook, line and sinker (e.g., foreign media, Prof. Thitinan). The word that comes to my mind is “sheep,” not intelligence. What you are really doing is defining PAD supporters as intelligent because they are PAD supporters, right? Not a very strong debating point, I’m afraid.
>Thai Political Watchdog/Bulldog…
I take it you mean that you support the idea that the legislature should be more an appointed body than an elected one. If that’s what you mean, please say so. If you mean something else, could you elaborate?
It would be great, if the current problems could be solved by saying magic words. The current conflict is part of a longer process that became public three years ago. Even though it seems as if it is basically a conflict between a few persons like Sondhi, Thaksin, Chamlong and Samak that it lasts so long already and that no usual measures are taken indicates that it is part of a far wider process. For me it seems that the economic and political elites of Thailand are fragmented, which probably dates back to the Asia crisis and the economic shifts that resulted from it. S o far no group could establish itself as dominant. Usually such a situation of a plurality of diverse elites is fruitful for democratic processes, as long as a consensus exists on how to bargain out compromises. As all of these elite fractions are highly authoritarian, such procedures are not accepted and the conflict drags on and on. Thus, a magic word might reduce the presure and tension of the current situation, but it will certainly re-occur rather soon.
Obviously, Thailand is currently facing a process of transformation of its political system. In such processes magic usually plays a minor role.
Thanks for the proofread. You are right, I can’t use “my House or Bob’s house” because Sanam Luang does not belong to the Reds as Government House does not belong to PAD. For that, I would like to change from using the word house to “camp” instead, at your point, to correctly describe the situation.
But that does not change my words that for that event, that: the Reds started the violence that early morning [apparently the Reds are the used people, who never knew each other before, trampled over each other, not rescuing their own fallen, received money, and many tricked into the situation — quite the PPP tactics to control the North and North East; No wonder PAD do help these poor souls –“uneducated gullibles” – despite their violent doings]. These Reds also intend to do much more, including lay arson to the surrounding area to push push the blame to PAD.
Nick, I think the people behind the Reds are much more devious than, those that you accuse are “the ones that have sent him there in the first place” (though use of guns is definitely not a PAD policy).
Lastly, I agree with you. PAD break the Law, and that not good and I’m not going to defend them against that, and I am hoping most of you don’t ONLY dwell on that. But as I said, The Basic Principles are much more important, and Protecting That is what its about.
Lets lighten up, go see”The Dark Knight”, and you know what I’m talking about!
Over 80 years old and we want him to solve all our problems.
So if the King steps in now, tells people to go home, what exactly does that solve? The bad feelings between all involved parties will still exist. Perhaps people will just wait till he is no longer “around” and come out once again.
The King has always hoped that these issues would resolve itself without his intervention. No doubt, if all else fails, then yes, he would step in.
Personally, I do not think an election that was bought provides anyone with an “election mandate”.
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
An extract from Handley’s TKNS
From today’s Irrawaddy: “The PAD will not hold talks with the government or anyone,” said Somsak Kosaisuk, one of the five core leaders of the group. “The PAD will talk only after Samak has resigned,” he said.”
Thai crisis. Royal silence.
Obviously Land of Snarls is not an avid viewer of Thai TV. The king is regularly shown making speeches and is more regularly heard making speeches. During June and July there were quite a few.
Chang Noi backs the rural constitution
The Manager newspaper already has an (implicit) anti-Chang Noi in the edition of September 3. The headline reads “Civil disobedience against political business and pseudo-democracy.” The article confirms the view that voters in up-country towns and rural areas are uneducated and poor, and thus under the influence of powerful figures. Voting depends on money being paid to the voters (ngoen mai ma ka mai pen). Therefore, things such as “coming from elections” and “democracy” really are only about “pseudo-democracy” (and thus don’t need to be accepted).
Thai crisis. Royal silence.
There is a story going around Bangkok at present, that, having listened to Samak’s speech in Hua Hin last weekend, HMK asked, “Are you finished?” Samak is said to have replied in the affirmative, whereupon HMK rose and left without a word.
Of course this is gossip, but IMHO, if it’s true there is a pretty clear message in it: ‘You were elected to govern – get out & govern!’
It could be that at this end of a long and frustrating reign, HMK is now resolved to let his people take full responsibility for their actions & bear the consequences.
Of course, that’s only one interpretation of the aforesaid gossip. Others could be more forceful. Was he saying, ‘cut the bullshit’? (Is PAD really responsible for the airport closures? Who placed the bomb at Government House? Was the murder of an anti-PAD protester really perpetrated by a PAD supporter? )
Your “…King Bhumipol gives regular speeeches…,” while semantically correct (every 5th Dec.), might be taken to imply that he speaks often. In fact he speaks to the nation rarely. The April 2006 speech to which you refer did not instruct the judiciary how to vote. It reminded them that whichever way they chose to vote, the finding would be unpopular, so they might as well vote according to their best interpretation of the law. They appear to have done so, and have been criticized for it ever since, but it could be argued that the judiciary has been showing signs of increased independence and transparency ever since.
Personally I don’t like him, but I agree with you that Samak has acted with restraint, and this is to his credit. I’m sure nobody wants piles of corpses of bourgeois old ladies, retired gentlemen, and teenage students further clogging up the traffic around Ratchadamnoen.
Report on last night’s clash
kuson: “In general I think PAD is the best champion to correct whats wrong in Thai political situation and society at the moment”
You mean their racism, hyper-nationalism, opportunism and anti-democratic politics are the best for Thailand in the current situation.
Report on last night’s clash
As for the PPP – NPK link, I think it’s always been obvious. Their leaders who go on stage to speak have included PPP MPs, eg. Krung Srivilai and gov-related persons, eg. Uthai Saegkaew, younger brother of Deputy Transport Minister.
If Nor Por Kor = PPP, does PAD=Democrats? Democrat MPs have also been speaking on stage at PAD rallies.
Report on last night’s clash
kuson: I admire the tenacity of your beliefs even when so much suggests to me that you are mistaken.
Thai crisis. Royal silence.
WS: khun kaojai chat jaen khon diaow, chai mai?
Academic commentary on Thai crisis
“Democracy was about peaceful transition.”
You need to read the history of other countries.
May I suggest the more relevant: Korea’s Place in the Sun by historian Bruce Cumings.
Has two separate narratives in the book devoted to industrialization and the democratic movement. Democracy won in the end, after the country reached a fairly well-developed economic state. Protests, tear gas, and riot police. Furthermore, the US was completely complicit in this process, the most notable example being the Kwangju massacre of the 1980s.
http://www.times.com/books/first/c/cumings-korea.html
Thai crisis. Royal silence.
tha khun yang mai kwao jai nai panha kwam khat yaeng nie. tham mai phra chao yue hua thung mai sadaeng kwam hen . sadaeng wa khun yang mai kwao jai sangkom thai yang thae jeng. plake jai mak wa ma suksa sangkom thai nan tae yang kwao mai thung kwam subson nai kongsang baeb muang thai.
kan mai pood kue kan pood. bang the mee palang kwa kan pood. And the king cannot said anything right now.
Report on last night’s clash
“Kuson”:
From where is stand right now, i care less and less about principles. I just found out that one of the guys that got killed that night i have joked around with only half an hour before he was beaten to death, while i took photos of his group of friends. That gives me a more than an uncomfortable feeling.
That night i have seen murder in the eyes of the people of both sides, and that hasn’t yet completely sunk in – at the march of the UDD i have accompanied, and during the clashes.
It was simply insane. I have most of the time of the heavy fighting duck at an entrance of the UN building where i was caught between the lines when PAD overran the UDD guys. Projectiles flew around, and guns were fired uncomfortably close.
There was a PAD guy with completely crazed eyes running towards us, his iron bar raised in his hands. I have just held my hands up, and shouted at him repeatedly in Thai that i am a journalist, and after a short while he turned away and kept on chasing the UDD guys.
A bit later, when the cops have managed to get in between during a lull, the UDD guys have captured a PAD guy, and started stomping him to the ground. Some UDD guards tried to protect him from the onslaught of the crowd. I took first several pics, stopped taking pictires when i realised how serious this was, and then also tried to stop people from the crowd. The UDD guards managed to get him then into one of the waiting Watchila ambulances.
And this, i fear, is nothing against what may come. So, excuse me please, for me this is not about principles anymore, but how to find a solution so that we won’t see this sort of thing anymore.
Violence is the way of both camps. Please do not excuse the actions of the side you chose to support. This whole situation is inexcusable, and PAD has a very large part of responsibility, regardless any principle.
Thai crisis. Royal silence.
Perhaps the only way to express dissatisfaction with the PAD actions is to boycott the economic interests 0f those at the top of the PAD. Does anyone have a list of the companies controlled by the PAD leaders?
Thai crisis. Royal silence.
While it is great to have a moral instance like the King, what really worries me is the fact that in every crisis lately it needs a royal advice to get the different parties working out a solution. Politics should be done by adults able to talk and compromise, not like Kindergarten kids who always need their teacher to solve their fights. What will happen when the King cannot step in anymore, and a successor did not earn the respect needed to make everyone listen? Maybe His Majesty tries to prepare the country for these times by waiting and hoping that the combatants can find a compromise on their own, yet I am not much optimistic with the current cast on either side.
Report on last night’s clash
Amberwaves:
Your Point#1:
Interesting again, though it would also be interesting to have you discuss why PAD “guards,” after repelling the mob, chased them down and ganged up on targets who fell, beating and kicking them, in one case to death (and there are several videos showing this, though I don’t know if they are shown on ASTV.)
Details of the Battlefield- it is a battelfield mechanics issue. Why pad guards will continue to beat the living daylights of an opponent is proportional to how much they were beaten at first – emotional factor- so no debate point. [I reccomend you to look at a reference movie: Saving Private Ryan- the GIs who were shot at in Omaha beach broke Geneva Conventions by firing on the Germans even if they surrendered. It was done on emotions, and by conventions not correct]
Your Point #2: People who define a struggle as good vs evil tend to be a bit scary in their close-mindedness and what lengths they are willing to go to in support of their struggle. (On a big scale, think Osama bin Laden and George W. Bush.)
As for Intelligence vs Blind/Bought, you are articulate, but friends who have interviewed a lot of PAD supporters down at Government House have trouble getting people to explain why they are there beyond “Thaksin and Samak are bad, they are immoral, I know because it was on ASTV.”
They also parrot what they hear from the stage about anyone who does not buy the PAD line hook, line and sinker (e.g., foreign media, Prof. Thitinan). The word that comes to my mind is “sheep,” not intelligence. What you are really doing is defining PAD supporters as intelligent because they are PAD supporters, right? Not a very strong debating point, I’m afraid.
It is scary how you fail to agree with the “PAD Parrots” that “Thaksin (and or Samak) are Dark Side” which are result of already quite intelligible conclusions with evidence.
I’m quite sure many have been Thaksin supporters before — Including Myself– and listen to the “Reds” radio quite often to understand them, so your point of “PAD being sheep that is close-mindedness and what lengths they are willing to go to in support of their struggle” may not be 100% true. Having been in both camps, understanding each parties motives, is already good enough to be above sheep level which you widely accuse;
My point is, the Intelligence comes from the search for Truths, the personal convincing of oneself, which I do believe many-most of PADs hold this conviction. (Having said that, however, I need to say that not all people in PAD have equal intelligence as we all in the world. That is why I mention, to simply stick to the Principles of it).
Your Point#3:
Thai Political Watchdog/Bulldog…
I take it you mean that you support the idea that the legislature should be more an appointed body than an elected one. If that’s what you mean, please say so. If you mean something else, could you elaborate?
Nope, that’s not what I said or meant. That may be Sonthi’s thinking which was on a basis of eradicating Thaksinism should the majority of North and NorthEast people not have fair access to the Truth (which PPP want to keep these people as “sheeps”). If they have fair access to PAD information, I personally believe that this Appointed Body System is not necessary, and the Government, however elected, will be much cleaner than this current government.
What I meant is with PAD’s as Political Watchdog is, they have (by objective or not) instilled to the people of Thailand to be more active, and to help audit their own government from mischief. In the past, people just voted, and then left the government all the freedom to do things without scrutiny. Because of the PAD phenomenon, people have become more active and looking after their government and bad people will have to think twice before they even think of going into elections. And with this, everyone will win – if this Political Watchdog stays in a more limited role.
In general I think PAD is the best champion to correct whats wrong in Thai political situation and society at the moment; If you agree with me Thaksin is from the “Dark Side” and his system must be eradicated, My question to you is, do you have any better alternative to PAD? If you don’t agree with me on “Thaksin on the Dark Side”, then lets simply agree to disagree, to save NM debate space.
Thanks for your comments anyway.
Thai crisis. Royal silence.
The real magic is in the silence. Royal intent becomes ‘rumour’. Anyone and everyone can claim a direct connection to “divine will” and say that the silent one is keeping silent for this reason or that reason. They can claim to be speaking in his name like spirit mediums. “The king told me to” is the new magic phrase giving power to the divine mob.
The King Never Smiles?
>Do you really have to stick your bossy nose in every country’s business?? PATHETIC.
>And all those Thais who disapprove the King, you can just live and die elsewhere but NOT in Thailand.
Yes, right.
And let’s also get rid of all those foreign inventions that culturally enslave Thailand, like cars and elevators and air conditioners, and then assemble a great army of elephant cavalry to take back what the Burmese, Cambodians and Lao stole from us so we can restore our mighty empire!
We know how to deal with those treacherous Thais who don’t support our nation-building plans, yes?
That’s what you really want to say, isn’t it, Prae?
Report on last night’s clash
Interesting again, though it would also be interesting to have you discuss why PAD “guards,” after repelling the mob, chased them down and ganged up on targets who fell, beating and kicking them, in one case to death (and there are several videos showing this, though I don’t know if they are shown on ASTV.)
>And for now, I think PAD is the only vehicle that I can use for corrective action to get the Basic Principles Right [Good Versus Evil, Intelligence vs Blind/Bought, Sustainable vs Short Term ], even though Breaking the Law [which seems to really hits NM’s nerves].
People who define a struggle as good vs evil tend to be a bit scary in their close-mindedness and what lengths they are willing to go to in support of their struggle. (On a big scale, think Osama bin Laden and George W. Bush.)
As for Intelligence vs Blind/Bought, you are articulate, but friends who have interviewed a lot of PAD supporters down at Government House have trouble getting people to explain why they are there beyond “Thaksin and Samak are bad, they are immoral, I know because it was on ASTV.”
They also parrot what they hear from the stage about anyone who does not buy the PAD line hook, line and sinker (e.g., foreign media, Prof. Thitinan). The word that comes to my mind is “sheep,” not intelligence. What you are really doing is defining PAD supporters as intelligent because they are PAD supporters, right? Not a very strong debating point, I’m afraid.
>Thai Political Watchdog/Bulldog…
I take it you mean that you support the idea that the legislature should be more an appointed body than an elected one. If that’s what you mean, please say so. If you mean something else, could you elaborate?
Thai crisis. Royal silence.
It would be great, if the current problems could be solved by saying magic words. The current conflict is part of a longer process that became public three years ago. Even though it seems as if it is basically a conflict between a few persons like Sondhi, Thaksin, Chamlong and Samak that it lasts so long already and that no usual measures are taken indicates that it is part of a far wider process. For me it seems that the economic and political elites of Thailand are fragmented, which probably dates back to the Asia crisis and the economic shifts that resulted from it. S o far no group could establish itself as dominant. Usually such a situation of a plurality of diverse elites is fruitful for democratic processes, as long as a consensus exists on how to bargain out compromises. As all of these elite fractions are highly authoritarian, such procedures are not accepted and the conflict drags on and on. Thus, a magic word might reduce the presure and tension of the current situation, but it will certainly re-occur rather soon.
Obviously, Thailand is currently facing a process of transformation of its political system. In such processes magic usually plays a minor role.
Report on last night’s clash
“Nick”
Thanks for the proofread. You are right, I can’t use “my House or Bob’s house” because Sanam Luang does not belong to the Reds as Government House does not belong to PAD. For that, I would like to change from using the word house to “camp” instead, at your point, to correctly describe the situation.
But that does not change my words that for that event, that: the Reds started the violence that early morning [apparently the Reds are the used people, who never knew each other before, trampled over each other, not rescuing their own fallen, received money, and many tricked into the situation — quite the PPP tactics to control the North and North East; No wonder PAD do help these poor souls –“uneducated gullibles” – despite their violent doings]. These Reds also intend to do much more, including lay arson to the surrounding area to push push the blame to PAD.
Nick, I think the people behind the Reds are much more devious than, those that you accuse are “the ones that have sent him there in the first place” (though use of guns is definitely not a PAD policy).
Lastly, I agree with you. PAD break the Law, and that not good and I’m not going to defend them against that, and I am hoping most of you don’t ONLY dwell on that. But as I said, The Basic Principles are much more important, and Protecting That is what its about.
Lets lighten up, go see”The Dark Knight”, and you know what I’m talking about!
Thai crisis. Royal silence.
Over 80 years old and we want him to solve all our problems.
So if the King steps in now, tells people to go home, what exactly does that solve? The bad feelings between all involved parties will still exist. Perhaps people will just wait till he is no longer “around” and come out once again.
The King has always hoped that these issues would resolve itself without his intervention. No doubt, if all else fails, then yes, he would step in.
Personally, I do not think an election that was bought provides anyone with an “election mandate”.