It’s amazing how little audio there is for Thai language learners. Extensive reading and listening of texts around the learner’s skill level is one of the most effective language learning techniques.
It’s also amazing how little attention is paid to recognizing the difference between tones and replicating their differences early on, probably an artifact of stressing written over audio texts.
Arguably, audio texts should come before written texts nowadays since MP3 is so easy to make, share, and listen to.
In relation to the judicary (which even PPP cannot reform unless the Constitution is changed) What checks and balances? checks and imbalances more likely; precisely the problem of why fairness cannot be shown in the current judicial climate. As long as there are emplaced Anti-Thaksinites in the courts with a further 10 year tenure (offered earlier as a “bribe” by the military) with a clear manadate to get Thaksin whatever then the result can be predicted. I would challenege all readers to show the evidence against Thaksin- not heresy or rumours spread by Sondhi Lim (that includes Sidh S. [by the way – why are you folk scared to show your real names??]). In anycase, do not measure Thailand with a Western democracy where there are real checks and balances. The problem is that people who hate Thaksin are never going to change their attitudes whatever facts are shown in front of them. Hence, why am I wasting my time writing this now???
The junta needed to make sure their servants remain in charge of the Constitutional Tribunal for the following nine years. All lawsuits filed against the junta and their servants, like the lawsuit of the Asset Examination Committee which issued various illegal assets freezing orders, and any future lawsuits by those harmed by the coup, will be heard by the junta’s selected group of obedient servants. Just like the tribunals which followed the orders of the junta’s leader to ban the Thai Rak Thai Party.
This is what the leading independent law lecturers of Thailand had to say about this issue last year before the election (which showed once again that Thaksin and his policies were much loved by the masses):
“It is eminent that the Proposed Draft confers extensive and additional power and authority on the Judiciary. For example, all selections of personnel for those independent government bodies setup by virtue of the Constitution will require approval by the President of the Supreme Court or his designated person as well as the approval by the President of the Administrative Court and the Chairman of the Constitutional Tribunal or their designees. In regard to the judiciary, the Proposed Draft involves the judiciary in politics through the nomination and selection process. Further, all political disputes shall now be subject to the judicial branch through its ‘criminal division for politicians’. Any disputes in relation to the (forthcoming) election will also be decided by the judiciary, not by holding a new election”. It is clear that the judiciary will monitor and balance the political activities but there is no mechanism to monitor and balance the power of the judiciary!
Did anyone of the readers, as I did, spend many nights at Sanam Luang in the rain in June/July 2007 talking to the ordinary folk who actually care about Thailand?? Has anyone spent time talking to rural folk and hearing their passion and sincerity about the man they admire for doing so much for the country??
i agree with you about the unnecessariness (and impossibility?) of drawing rigid lines between authentic and the inauthentic displays; i was born and have lived for a long time in the Basque Country, and there was a lot of talk about DNA going on there; sadly, some of the people (fortunately not all) who have engaged in “deconstructing” Basque nationalism seem to have no problem with swallowing the equally disturbing idea of “Spain”
anyway, accepting that difficulty, as well as the fact that the whole event is ideological and manipulative, and the ethnic classification itself a mess, you could easily agree that the least that non-Han peoples could expect of it all is that the representative of their group in the opening ceremony was one of their own -and I mean one individual registered within one of the 55 non-Han groups, as seen in the ID card every Chinese citizen must have
beyond the “shocking” nature of the parade, what I find interesting is to see how the Chinese government don┬┤t have any inconvenient in showing the totally external an instrumental character of the official ethnic classification; I didn┬┤t watched the ceremony (as it has happened for all of the 3 or 4 last Games, you have to pay me for that…), but from some funny picture I┬┤ve picked from the internet I would say that the whole symbolism of the event is simply aimed at showing how the non-Han peoples are willing to become part of the Chinese nation and to have the Han state take them by the hand towards economic development
but there is also the part the “minorities” play regarding the Han majority, something Dru Gladney dealt with graciously in that famous 1994 paper of his, “Representing nationality in China: refiguring majority/ minority identities”; in this sense, I believe to compare Han prostitutes faking as Tai with the dynamics between Kachin and Shan identities described by Leach is at least arguable -it not only neglects power relations between the Han and the Tai (and other ethnic groups in the area) but also within the business itself
i hope we will have a chance to discuss about this more in depth in the future, Andrew; for now I just say want to say that I certainly wouldn┬┤t dare digging too much into the “authenticity” of ethnic identities in China or anywhere else, but the essentialism of the state categorization, i think that one is pretty easy to identify and shoot at
and talking about identities, in almost 7 years living in Asia I haven┬┤t been able to get rid of that fundamental marker of Spanish ethnic identity called siesta; your message prevented me from enjoying it today I will never forgive you for that…
“It seems as if Kaplan thinks modern Burmese history and US involvement with Burma began with Aung San Suu Kyi.”
A very good point, in deed.
If you compare Burma to the econo-political developments of other comparable SE Asian countries, especially Indonesia, the main soaring point is General Ne Win’s steadfast refusal to abandon “Burmese Way To Socialism” for more than 20 years. By then in late eighties, Burma has really fallen behind and had to apply for a LDC status with UN so that all world bank loans could be forgiven.
Without Ne Win’s socialism and without that dreadful sanctions later after Ne Win, Burma would have a sort of democracy now as in the once-military-ruled Indonesia.
And believe it or not while the Burmese army has willingly abandoned the Ne Win’s Socialist legacy and started the economic reforms after the 1988 uprising, the negative results of that uprising has unfortunately hindered their genuine efforts and virtually killed off the nascent free- market-economy of Burma.
The current economic and trade sanctions by the Western democracies are the dire and horrible results of influential Burmese exile opposition which resides in the west and has forced a huge dark cloud permanently over our Burma. They are now blocking the sun rays urgently needed for the substantial growth of Burmese economy.
Without that much needed economic development, there won’t be a positive political development essential for the gradual progress of democracy as eventually happened in Indonesia and Thailand.
You hit the nail right on the head, Aiontay, wh0ever you are, Thanks!
I wait with bated breath for more Jim Taylor tall tales.
But I still prefer to hear the dirty secrets direct from the horse’s mouth – Thaksin. The songs Frank Shinawatra can sing, with Jim Taylor providing the second vocals, to the entranced Thai judges . . . rap music anyone?
I am not sure why that loquacious Fonzi had not responded. Fonzi (#17) appears to remain unconvinced that the “Thaksin’s so-called extrajudicial killings during the War on Drugs” even occurred while Bangkok Pundit, if memory had not deserted me, on the other hand questioned the accuracy of the number of police death squad kills (personally I suspect there were actually more police death squads killings than reported or estimated).
But I confessed I shot extrajudicial-like with my #21 poster that BP and Fonzi demand ‘consistency in Thai justice’ before Thaksin should be tried. I merely wanted to draw their attention to the questions in my mind about where BP and Fonzi stand on the issue of Thaksin’s extra-judicial killing responsibility. Because both Fonzi and BP, if not downright evasive, are very defensive about Thaksin every time the issue of the extrajudicial police death squads killings crop up in the blogs.
Without further ado BP and Fonzi: Do both of you still believe that Thaksin did not preside over, and direct, the anti-drugs killings that resulted in thousands of villagers killed during Thaksin’s rule?
(I am NOT asking whether or not Thaksin should be judicially tried for his role in the extra-judicial police death squad killing affair because it looks like it is not going to happen).
As a Thai, let me put it simply. Please forgive me if I appear oversimplistic. I think one of the root causes is that we Thais are hypocrites at heart. Take care when you have any dealing with a Thai.
Dear Walker: Don’t be too sure. It depends on whose side certain shenanigans are on and how judicial integrity leans toward. After all, integrity is not necessarily neutral.
That’s more the spirit! To my way of thinking, the great thing about this conviction is the damage it has done to his image. I don’t realistically expect him to spend even a day inside. If he wants to see out his day’s in the ‘pretty vacant’ Poipet, then so be it.
Since that BBC TV episodes of Monty Python’s Headhunting Nagas many a English speaking people know of Nagas and most laughed at me if I told them, as a joke, that I was a Naga from the Nagaland.
Being a Burmese, Nagaland is part of our mind set of geographical Burma. But a young Indian man being ignorant of our Naga Land is a shocker to me.
Apparently the authorities in India do not want their fair-minded people know about the Indian occupation of the home land of Nagas, including Assam, former Burmese territories during the Imperial times.
Hi Roger, my view is that most (all) public displays of ethnicity involve a significant degree of invention, artifice, creativity and performance. Trying to draw rigid lines between authentic and inauthentic displays will ultimately take us back to DNA. I’m not sure we want that. I find WP’s implied distinction between inauthentic Han prostitutes and authentic “Dai” a bit too chauvinistic for my liking. Why can’t Han girls be Dai too (just like Leach’s Kachin who were Shan when it suited them)? And, don’t forget, prostitutes are’t the only ones who use ethnicity as a marketing tool. Plenty of academics have been dining out on it for years!
As a fluent user of Thai (reading and writing), one of the interesting things I have noticed is the strange quality of foreign writing translated into Thai. Thai dubs of Hollywood movies, Japanese flicks, Korean dramas has a peculiar characteristic. Translated foreign-books usually bear the unmistakable mark of foreign thoughts and odd (but understandable) phrases and styles. Comparable to reading Thai books through the ages.
‘which means the pronunciation of syllables alters the meaning of words’.
This is perhaps how it looks to the naive learner, but not to the Thai native speaker.
To say that changing the tone changes the meaning of a word in Thai is as sensible as saying that changing the first sound of a word in English (like changing the ‘b’ of ‘bid’ for a ‘d’) changes the meaning. English speakers will say that ‘bid’ and ‘did’ are not the same word with two different initial sounds and two different meanings, but simply two different words. So ‘phii [falling tone]’ and ‘phii [rising tone]’ are also two different words, not one word with 2 different tones and 2 different meanings.
The tone of a Thai word (technically, syllable) is an inherent feature of that word (syllable) and can no more be detached from the rest of the pronuciation than can the initial sound of an English word (syllable).
And what is ‘abstract’ about Thai sounds? Just like sound segments have physical realizations, tone has a non-abstract physical realization (changes and contrasts in voice pitch), which happens to be the same realization of what is called ‘intonation’ in languages like English.
But then I’m just a linguistics-trained, Thai-speaking former English acharn. Probably I just don’t get it.
so, Andrew and JG, just to make things clear, do you think we should just stop criticizing this kind of stuff because the anti-communist and anti-Chinese Western media and politicians are trying to use it to keep poor China on her knees, or only because it has become a habit there and elsewhere?
WP, nice analogy, it says much about “ethnic policy” in China
Jim Taylor #27 said “… I stayed in a forest monastery in Northeast Thailand with a key coup-maker in 2005 and know for a fact that the coup was planned sixteen months beforehand and indeed even further back…”
Jim, could the coup been hatched since 2001 when GenSurayud was ‘bumped upstairs’? PMThaksin personally called GenSurayud to ask “P’Aed, would you stage a coup?” GenSurayud came back as PM after the coup – you would have spot the obvious link?!
Hmmm… the courts must have “already agreed on a verdict before the cases ever went to trial”!!??
And Jim#29 “Actually, the courts could not hold him accountable in accordance with the law as it had existed even in the Democrat days – unless you want to change the law which post-2006 coup-makers and their friends want to do to achieve their ends.”
You’ve probably gone way too far there, Jim. Please do your homework before making such shocking statements (otherwise you are guilty of spinning lies). We all know PMThaksin should not have got off the 2001 assets concealment case. Anyone who read the court transcripts will see that the evidences were solid (as they are in KhunYingPotjaman’s case – and probably cases pending if only PMThaksin had the guts to face them). I am sure you were one of the many people who had ask over many years “where is the evidence of PMThaksin’s corruption”? Now that there are evidences, have the guts to see it as it is – corruption and abuse of power.
And PMThaksin is NOT AN ISOLATED CASE. Since the passage of the 1997 Constitution, there have been a string high profile convictions from such as MajGenSanan of the Democrats, KamnanPoh (Chonburi godfather), and now Vatana Asawahem (Samutprakarn godfather). These are certainly positive developments in Thai society/democracy.
To aid in Thailand’s democratic growth, you are better off highlighting PMThaksin’s and TRT’s better past policies than cowardly discrediting checks and balance institution doing their job properly – as PMThaksin is doing…
Matty said “But of course Fonzi and Bangkok Pundit both believe Thai justice should ‘consistently’ be pursued in the order of bottoms up to the ladder and sequentially, before Thaksin Shinawatra should be tried.”
Can you point where I said that others should be tried before Thaksin is tried?
Srithanonchai said “I am asking for a solid legal interpretation for non-lawyers, which does the case justice.”
I did a couple of posts on the issue looking at the law. What specifically were you after?
It’s hard to hold anyone accountable when they are allowed to simply run away.
So much for Thaksin wanting to clear his name in the courts!
Judging by Jim’s series of posts it looks like the propaganda war might again be in full swing – the Thaksin side always was better at spin, and it’s looking increasingly likely the escape to London was just a tactical retreat.
I saw the Olympic opening ceremony in Sydney closeup. It was a clear celebration of joy and freedom and culture and public participation. But when I saw the Beijing Olympic opening ceremony on TV, it just simply shocked me as a massive show of disciplined manpower like the marching parades in Kremlin Red Square sans ICBMs and roaring tanks.
I bet half of the PLA participated in the opening ceremony while the other half guarded the whole China in red alert!
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PAD and the Democrats will miss Thaksin
Jim Taylor as always compel me to cry a river for Thaksin.
On learning Thai
It’s amazing how little audio there is for Thai language learners. Extensive reading and listening of texts around the learner’s skill level is one of the most effective language learning techniques.
http://nflrc.hawaii.edu/RFL/October2002/day/day.html
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~rday/
It’s also amazing how little attention is paid to recognizing the difference between tones and replicating their differences early on, probably an artifact of stressing written over audio texts.
Arguably, audio texts should come before written texts nowadays since MP3 is so easy to make, share, and listen to.
PAD and the Democrats will miss Thaksin
In relation to the judicary (which even PPP cannot reform unless the Constitution is changed) What checks and balances? checks and imbalances more likely; precisely the problem of why fairness cannot be shown in the current judicial climate. As long as there are emplaced Anti-Thaksinites in the courts with a further 10 year tenure (offered earlier as a “bribe” by the military) with a clear manadate to get Thaksin whatever then the result can be predicted. I would challenege all readers to show the evidence against Thaksin- not heresy or rumours spread by Sondhi Lim (that includes Sidh S. [by the way – why are you folk scared to show your real names??]). In anycase, do not measure Thailand with a Western democracy where there are real checks and balances. The problem is that people who hate Thaksin are never going to change their attitudes whatever facts are shown in front of them. Hence, why am I wasting my time writing this now???
The junta needed to make sure their servants remain in charge of the Constitutional Tribunal for the following nine years. All lawsuits filed against the junta and their servants, like the lawsuit of the Asset Examination Committee which issued various illegal assets freezing orders, and any future lawsuits by those harmed by the coup, will be heard by the junta’s selected group of obedient servants. Just like the tribunals which followed the orders of the junta’s leader to ban the Thai Rak Thai Party.
This is what the leading independent law lecturers of Thailand had to say about this issue last year before the election (which showed once again that Thaksin and his policies were much loved by the masses):
“It is eminent that the Proposed Draft confers extensive and additional power and authority on the Judiciary. For example, all selections of personnel for those independent government bodies setup by virtue of the Constitution will require approval by the President of the Supreme Court or his designated person as well as the approval by the President of the Administrative Court and the Chairman of the Constitutional Tribunal or their designees. In regard to the judiciary, the Proposed Draft involves the judiciary in politics through the nomination and selection process. Further, all political disputes shall now be subject to the judicial branch through its ‘criminal division for politicians’. Any disputes in relation to the (forthcoming) election will also be decided by the judiciary, not by holding a new election”. It is clear that the judiciary will monitor and balance the political activities but there is no mechanism to monitor and balance the power of the judiciary!
Did anyone of the readers, as I did, spend many nights at Sanam Luang in the rain in June/July 2007 talking to the ordinary folk who actually care about Thailand?? Has anyone spent time talking to rural folk and hearing their passion and sincerity about the man they admire for doing so much for the country??
Shock! Horror! China dresses non-ethnics as ethnics!
thanks a lot for your response, Andrew
i agree with you about the unnecessariness (and impossibility?) of drawing rigid lines between authentic and the inauthentic displays; i was born and have lived for a long time in the Basque Country, and there was a lot of talk about DNA going on there; sadly, some of the people (fortunately not all) who have engaged in “deconstructing” Basque nationalism seem to have no problem with swallowing the equally disturbing idea of “Spain”
anyway, accepting that difficulty, as well as the fact that the whole event is ideological and manipulative, and the ethnic classification itself a mess, you could easily agree that the least that non-Han peoples could expect of it all is that the representative of their group in the opening ceremony was one of their own -and I mean one individual registered within one of the 55 non-Han groups, as seen in the ID card every Chinese citizen must have
beyond the “shocking” nature of the parade, what I find interesting is to see how the Chinese government don┬┤t have any inconvenient in showing the totally external an instrumental character of the official ethnic classification; I didn┬┤t watched the ceremony (as it has happened for all of the 3 or 4 last Games, you have to pay me for that…), but from some funny picture I┬┤ve picked from the internet I would say that the whole symbolism of the event is simply aimed at showing how the non-Han peoples are willing to become part of the Chinese nation and to have the Han state take them by the hand towards economic development
but there is also the part the “minorities” play regarding the Han majority, something Dru Gladney dealt with graciously in that famous 1994 paper of his, “Representing nationality in China: refiguring majority/ minority identities”; in this sense, I believe to compare Han prostitutes faking as Tai with the dynamics between Kachin and Shan identities described by Leach is at least arguable -it not only neglects power relations between the Han and the Tai (and other ethnic groups in the area) but also within the business itself
i hope we will have a chance to discuss about this more in depth in the future, Andrew; for now I just say want to say that I certainly wouldn┬┤t dare digging too much into the “authenticity” of ethnic identities in China or anywhere else, but the essentialism of the state categorization, i think that one is pretty easy to identify and shoot at
and talking about identities, in almost 7 years living in Asia I haven┬┤t been able to get rid of that fundamental marker of Spanish ethnic identity called siesta; your message prevented me from enjoying it today I will never forgive you for that…
thanks again and best
Response to Kaplan on Burma
“It seems as if Kaplan thinks modern Burmese history and US involvement with Burma began with Aung San Suu Kyi.”
A very good point, in deed.
If you compare Burma to the econo-political developments of other comparable SE Asian countries, especially Indonesia, the main soaring point is General Ne Win’s steadfast refusal to abandon “Burmese Way To Socialism” for more than 20 years. By then in late eighties, Burma has really fallen behind and had to apply for a LDC status with UN so that all world bank loans could be forgiven.
Without Ne Win’s socialism and without that dreadful sanctions later after Ne Win, Burma would have a sort of democracy now as in the once-military-ruled Indonesia.
And believe it or not while the Burmese army has willingly abandoned the Ne Win’s Socialist legacy and started the economic reforms after the 1988 uprising, the negative results of that uprising has unfortunately hindered their genuine efforts and virtually killed off the nascent free- market-economy of Burma.
The current economic and trade sanctions by the Western democracies are the dire and horrible results of influential Burmese exile opposition which resides in the west and has forced a huge dark cloud permanently over our Burma. They are now blocking the sun rays urgently needed for the substantial growth of Burmese economy.
Without that much needed economic development, there won’t be a positive political development essential for the gradual progress of democracy as eventually happened in Indonesia and Thailand.
You hit the nail right on the head, Aiontay, wh0ever you are, Thanks!
Nation, religion and monarchy in the fight against Thaksin
I wait with bated breath for more Jim Taylor tall tales.
But I still prefer to hear the dirty secrets direct from the horse’s mouth – Thaksin. The songs Frank Shinawatra can sing, with Jim Taylor providing the second vocals, to the entranced Thai judges . . . rap music anyone?
PAD and the Democrats will miss Thaksin
I am not sure why that loquacious Fonzi had not responded. Fonzi (#17) appears to remain unconvinced that the “Thaksin’s so-called extrajudicial killings during the War on Drugs” even occurred while Bangkok Pundit, if memory had not deserted me, on the other hand questioned the accuracy of the number of police death squad kills (personally I suspect there were actually more police death squads killings than reported or estimated).
But I confessed I shot extrajudicial-like with my #21 poster that BP and Fonzi demand ‘consistency in Thai justice’ before Thaksin should be tried. I merely wanted to draw their attention to the questions in my mind about where BP and Fonzi stand on the issue of Thaksin’s extra-judicial killing responsibility. Because both Fonzi and BP, if not downright evasive, are very defensive about Thaksin every time the issue of the extrajudicial police death squads killings crop up in the blogs.
Without further ado BP and Fonzi: Do both of you still believe that Thaksin did not preside over, and direct, the anti-drugs killings that resulted in thousands of villagers killed during Thaksin’s rule?
(I am NOT asking whether or not Thaksin should be judicially tried for his role in the extra-judicial police death squad killing affair because it looks like it is not going to happen).
The Economist on politics in Thailand
As a Thai, let me put it simply. Please forgive me if I appear oversimplistic. I think one of the root causes is that we Thais are hypocrites at heart. Take care when you have any dealing with a Thai.
Memories of Vatana
Dear Walker: Don’t be too sure. It depends on whose side certain shenanigans are on and how judicial integrity leans toward. After all, integrity is not necessarily neutral.
Memories of Vatana
That’s more the spirit! To my way of thinking, the great thing about this conviction is the damage it has done to his image. I don’t realistically expect him to spend even a day inside. If he wants to see out his day’s in the ‘pretty vacant’ Poipet, then so be it.
Nagaland not on the curriculum
Since that BBC TV episodes of Monty Python’s Headhunting Nagas many a English speaking people know of Nagas and most laughed at me if I told them, as a joke, that I was a Naga from the Nagaland.
Being a Burmese, Nagaland is part of our mind set of geographical Burma. But a young Indian man being ignorant of our Naga Land is a shocker to me.
Apparently the authorities in India do not want their fair-minded people know about the Indian occupation of the home land of Nagas, including Assam, former Burmese territories during the Imperial times.
Shock! Horror! China dresses non-ethnics as ethnics!
Hi Roger, my view is that most (all) public displays of ethnicity involve a significant degree of invention, artifice, creativity and performance. Trying to draw rigid lines between authentic and inauthentic displays will ultimately take us back to DNA. I’m not sure we want that. I find WP’s implied distinction between inauthentic Han prostitutes and authentic “Dai” a bit too chauvinistic for my liking. Why can’t Han girls be Dai too (just like Leach’s Kachin who were Shan when it suited them)? And, don’t forget, prostitutes are’t the only ones who use ethnicity as a marketing tool. Plenty of academics have been dining out on it for years!
Lots of ways to say “G’day”
Opening gambit. Kenneth Hale left the building in 2001.
On learning Thai
As a fluent user of Thai (reading and writing), one of the interesting things I have noticed is the strange quality of foreign writing translated into Thai. Thai dubs of Hollywood movies, Japanese flicks, Korean dramas has a peculiar characteristic. Translated foreign-books usually bear the unmistakable mark of foreign thoughts and odd (but understandable) phrases and styles. Comparable to reading Thai books through the ages.
Interesting, I think.
On learning Thai
‘which means the pronunciation of syllables alters the meaning of words’.
This is perhaps how it looks to the naive learner, but not to the Thai native speaker.
To say that changing the tone changes the meaning of a word in Thai is as sensible as saying that changing the first sound of a word in English (like changing the ‘b’ of ‘bid’ for a ‘d’) changes the meaning. English speakers will say that ‘bid’ and ‘did’ are not the same word with two different initial sounds and two different meanings, but simply two different words. So ‘phii [falling tone]’ and ‘phii [rising tone]’ are also two different words, not one word with 2 different tones and 2 different meanings.
The tone of a Thai word (technically, syllable) is an inherent feature of that word (syllable) and can no more be detached from the rest of the pronuciation than can the initial sound of an English word (syllable).
And what is ‘abstract’ about Thai sounds? Just like sound segments have physical realizations, tone has a non-abstract physical realization (changes and contrasts in voice pitch), which happens to be the same realization of what is called ‘intonation’ in languages like English.
But then I’m just a linguistics-trained, Thai-speaking former English acharn. Probably I just don’t get it.
Shock! Horror! China dresses non-ethnics as ethnics!
so, Andrew and JG, just to make things clear, do you think we should just stop criticizing this kind of stuff because the anti-communist and anti-Chinese Western media and politicians are trying to use it to keep poor China on her knees, or only because it has become a habit there and elsewhere?
WP, nice analogy, it says much about “ethnic policy” in China
PAD and the Democrats will miss Thaksin
Jim Taylor #27 said “… I stayed in a forest monastery in Northeast Thailand with a key coup-maker in 2005 and know for a fact that the coup was planned sixteen months beforehand and indeed even further back…”
Jim, could the coup been hatched since 2001 when GenSurayud was ‘bumped upstairs’? PMThaksin personally called GenSurayud to ask “P’Aed, would you stage a coup?” GenSurayud came back as PM after the coup – you would have spot the obvious link?!
Jim, Vatana just got a 10 year jail term:
Court sentences Vatana Asavahem to ten years in jail in:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/08/18/politics/politics_30080855.php
Hmmm… the courts must have “already agreed on a verdict before the cases ever went to trial”!!??
And Jim#29 “Actually, the courts could not hold him accountable in accordance with the law as it had existed even in the Democrat days – unless you want to change the law which post-2006 coup-makers and their friends want to do to achieve their ends.”
You’ve probably gone way too far there, Jim. Please do your homework before making such shocking statements (otherwise you are guilty of spinning lies). We all know PMThaksin should not have got off the 2001 assets concealment case. Anyone who read the court transcripts will see that the evidences were solid (as they are in KhunYingPotjaman’s case – and probably cases pending if only PMThaksin had the guts to face them). I am sure you were one of the many people who had ask over many years “where is the evidence of PMThaksin’s corruption”? Now that there are evidences, have the guts to see it as it is – corruption and abuse of power.
And PMThaksin is NOT AN ISOLATED CASE. Since the passage of the 1997 Constitution, there have been a string high profile convictions from such as MajGenSanan of the Democrats, KamnanPoh (Chonburi godfather), and now Vatana Asawahem (Samutprakarn godfather). These are certainly positive developments in Thai society/democracy.
To aid in Thailand’s democratic growth, you are better off highlighting PMThaksin’s and TRT’s better past policies than cowardly discrediting checks and balance institution doing their job properly – as PMThaksin is doing…
PAD and the Democrats will miss Thaksin
Matty said “But of course Fonzi and Bangkok Pundit both believe Thai justice should ‘consistently’ be pursued in the order of bottoms up to the ladder and sequentially, before Thaksin Shinawatra should be tried.”
Can you point where I said that others should be tried before Thaksin is tried?
Srithanonchai said “I am asking for a solid legal interpretation for non-lawyers, which does the case justice.”
I did a couple of posts on the issue looking at the law. What specifically were you after?
PAD and the Democrats will miss Thaksin
It’s hard to hold anyone accountable when they are allowed to simply run away.
So much for Thaksin wanting to clear his name in the courts!
Judging by Jim’s series of posts it looks like the propaganda war might again be in full swing – the Thaksin side always was better at spin, and it’s looking increasingly likely the escape to London was just a tactical retreat.
Shock! Horror! China dresses non-ethnics as ethnics!
I saw the Olympic opening ceremony in Sydney closeup. It was a clear celebration of joy and freedom and culture and public participation. But when I saw the Beijing Olympic opening ceremony on TV, it just simply shocked me as a massive show of disciplined manpower like the marching parades in Kremlin Red Square sans ICBMs and roaring tanks.
I bet half of the PLA participated in the opening ceremony while the other half guarded the whole China in red alert!