I agree with you too, T/TT, with an additional comment that one monarch and his cronies have corrupted the people’s judgement with chequebooks, and the other side with guns. The electorate have followed their best interest in preferring the relatively benign to the positively malignant.
Nice intervention into the discussion by another “academic”. I propose (especially to those who wish to have an honest discussion of the issues) to keep the discussions here , rather than move to a new thread, so that people’s attention are not diverted away from the many informative comments that have already been made on the topic in this “Time to go home” thread about the PAD.
So I will be making comments on the “Thuggery and madness” post by Andrew here in this thread, and invite others to do the same.
the PAD is not content with protest within a democratic framework
But is the PAD protesting within a democratic framework? Sorry that I can’t , as usual, tow the “academic” line, but the PAD are protesting against mafia-led TRT/PPP governmental criminal syndicate, which is by no means a “democratic framework”.
The barbaric rampage by 700 or more Thaksin Reds (backed by brother powerful local PPP politician who is Deputy Agriculture Minister) against peaceful protesters whom the Police seemed unwilling to protect is a manifestation of the undemocratic framework. The Thaksin government’s murder with impunity of 2500 fellow Thais in war on drugs, and murder of 78 minority Muslim villagers in the South, are also classic manifestations of the very undemocratic framework which the PAD are protesting in.
And they have explicitly rejected the expression, and resolution, of political differences through electoral processes
It’s not just about “political differences” though. For myself, and many anti-Thaksins out there, it is about BRINGING THE CRIMINALS TO JUSTICE. Yes, the man who plundered the country like no one else has done before, and murdered several thousand fellow Thai citizens for a marketing stunt. So, I am not ashamed to say that I reject
“judgment by elections” because CRIMES (especially the very serious ones commited by Thaksin and Co.) were NEVER meant in any democratic society to be judged by “electoral processes”. These matters are to be resolved by judicial processes , like ALL democratic countries in the world do.
They have stoked nationalist passions which have bought Thai-Cambodia relations to the brink of conflict…
… If indeed Udon Thani’s political thugs have caused the death of a PAD protester, then they have given the PAD a martyr that its undemocratic and increasingly discredited cause so desperately needs
Again, I am bewildered by “academic” logic. So stoking nationalist passions by the PADs must be condemned, BUT the condemnation for the deliberate escalation of violence by the Thaksin Reds is not the violence itself but rather that such violence has created a martyr?? I guess in the world that we live in, the human dignity and value of life of a person can be taken away from people depending on which political views one holds. It is a sad world indeed.
For me, the stoking of unreasonable nationalism should be condemned, by what the Reds have done in Udon and several other provinces should also be condemned. In fact, I find the latter act much much more likely to led to very dangerous situations for Thailand. Kuson has already spoken about the Tit-for-Tat scenario which could be very destructive. I just pray that the PAD protesters will remain committed to non-violence against the barbaric rampages by the Reds, otherwise things will get very ugly indeed.
In fact, this deliberate escalation of violence by the Thaksin Reds (especially if it doesn’t stop) will be opening the road to what most of us fear the most, ie. a military coup. So, the question is, perhaps this is what Thaksin wants? ie. provoke coup, make PAD and opponents the scapegoat, and then return to power as a hero of democracy.
[…] PAD leadership must also take its share of responsibility. As I have argued before, the PAD is not content with protest within a democratic framework. Their strategy is to keep […]
Jesus Christ almighty! Moe Aung, you surprise me. Who the hell are you really? Are you from the MIS? Ha ha, just kidding.
Any way, since you have asked I should answer the crazy story of me. I was born in the jungle near Pyinmana. ( Actually I could now call myself a Nay-Pyi-Daw born since they cleared the jungle and built the so-called capital there.) It was during the Aung-Mar-Ga opeartion and I almost died, but my elder sister died.
Later my mother with my baby brother was captured by a Chin battalion. Usually these Chins killed every communist caught alive. Fortunately their commander had served under my father during WW2. So he kept my family alive as hostages in their battalion compound for years and finally his boss General Tin Oo, who was a young cadet when my father was a senior Burmese instructor at the Japanese Military Academy, persuaded my father and his division to surrender. That was the end of my father’s pathetic rebellion.
One other reason for his surrender was that, I think, he didn’t like Chinese and didn’t agree with the BCP’s policy shift towards China. He was then a member of Central Committee and controlled the biggest military division of the Communist Party’s red army. You see, our generals are not stupid at all. They are winning the civil war not just by killing their enemies. My father’s eventual surrender proves that.
I, a ten years old wide-eyed boy, ended up in the army boarding school run by then La-Pa-Kha command under General Tin Oo (now NLD vice chairman) in Mingaladon. Usually almost all the graduates from my school ended up in DSA, provided they passed matriculation. That was my dream too when I finished my year 10. But my father refused, so I ran away from home, joined the army as private right at the height of civil war in 1972 or 1973, I forgot now.
After almost 2 years on the front line on China border and people getting killed all around me like flies, I realized the crazy folly of my stupidness. Suddenly I discovered I didn’t want to die. So I deserted the army, came back home, and rejoined the RIT. Actually, General Kyaw Htin, who fought in my father’s battalion as a young lieutenant during the Japanese Revolution, saved my neck from the hangable offense of “the desertion with a 9mm pistol”, and I had to promise him that I would keep my mouth shut forever, which I’d kept for almost 30 years till the PTSD got hold of me recently and I had to go see a psychologist.
The rest is straight forward, an ordinary story of universities and works and moving from county to country looking for a greener pasture. As a therapy, I wrote a fictionalized-semi-autobiographical novel called “A Boy Soldier” based on the early 18 years of my life and self-published last year. My book seems quite popular on the internet and now I am near to closing a representation deal with a literary agency in Europe to publish my book all over the world. I am giving away half of the money to the Burmese charities.
I hope and wish I will be able to use my forthcoming-notoriety for my stated mission for the good cause of Burma. Moe Aung, I honestly hope you are satisfied with my this answer.
Sure seems strange, hardy no one gave a damn in the press about what’s going on over in the rebel controlled area of eastern Burma, then my book “War in Karen Country” came out and like rats in a cellar, all the criticism against me for my publishing a story (using my own money), about the plight of the Karen people.
None of those who write the trash in your on-line thread would do anything to help these embattled people and I can see from reading the various “opinions” of your readership that their sympathies lie with the Burmese SPDC and their drug running allies the DKB.
I also have taken note that I am the target of ridicule from other elements who have NEVER been to S.E. Asia, let alone to Burma (I having made numerous trips in and out of there in the past two years), and inspite of all the news about the Burmese repression, murder and torture of their own citizens, including the recent cyclone they seem to divert their hate in my direction.
I have moved on to other projects and can assure your readership that I will continue to be active on the world stage, although I have as I stated earlier, passed on all future possibilites, with regards to assisting the Karen to others.
Lastly, let me say that I am proud to have done what little I did for the Karen struggle. Although, when I left the Republic of Kawthoolei (April 18th 2008), I knew that perhaps it would be quite a while until I would return.
I am sincerely gratefull to those of you who have supported my mission and I want those of you to know that I will try to always live up to your expectations.
Thanks for the accolade, Hla Oo aka Harry Oo, also for the full diagnosis not just paranoia. Am I now on a pedestal along with your generals? Feet of clay comes to mind.
Well, I’ll be interested in how a son of a former officer turned Communist rebel came to grow up among the enemy in the army and to serve in it, what kind of twist in destiny at play here I wonder. Family connections or just old friends/comrades in the Tatmadaw?
There was no mention of any violence let alone killing at the old race course at Kyaikasan anywhere. Here’s the story as told by one of your fellow student protesters from the RIT, Henry Soe-Win:
The state’s reaction to this challenge to their hold on power was predictable as shown before with no room for doubt on July 7, 1962. As Ne Win had said before in the wake of the massacre in 1962 – sword against sword and spear against spear, only they used G3s, and was also to say later in 1987 – when the army shoots, it aims to hit. Most of the latter part of your article is common knowledge in Burma.
BTW did you acquire the name Harry after you’d arrived in Oz? I’m sorry to hear about your health and I’d say good luck on your stated mission. If you are a Buddhist like me, you know your karma awaits you – as you sow so shall you reap, but there’s still time to atone for your sins just like Ne Win tried by building the Maha Wizaya pagoda to change his karma. I’m sure you can do better than a symbolic gesture. So I’ll wish you the universal Buddhist wish – may all sentient beings without exception be happy.
Thanks for your usual academic, not-taking-sides comment on things. Let me share with you some of my one-sided, ultra-nationalist, proto-facist, elitist view on things, just like always.
One wonders who that Kwanchai is to decide who can or cannot use his/her constitutional rights in Udon Thani province. Has this guy some special constitutional status or what?
It was Kwanchai and 700 or so Reds that stormed into the PAD protesters with machetes, knives, clubs etc, so (from my proto-facist, ultra-nationalist, elitist view on things) the question is: Who are the Thaksin Reds (i.e. Kwanchai + 700 Reds) who think that they can violently assault (and perhaps even murder – Nation and Bangkokpost having reported one death) other Thai citizens who happen to have different views and chase them out of the province. In fact this type of violent chasing away (but less violent than Udon incident) and destruction of PAD’s private property is being done by the Thaksin Reds in several other provinces too such as Chiangmai and Buri Ram.
And who is the PAD to demarcate its own little state within Thailand on Ratchadamnoen Avenue with barbed wire, even having its own army to defend it?
My, oh my, oh my… even having its own army to defend itself?? Guess that is the academic way to react. But sorry, since I’m not an academic (but rather an elitist, ultra-nationalist, proto-facist), my view is different
Well, since 450 police officers in Udon seemed unable (in my view, not unable but unwilling) to protect fellow Thai citizens from violent (and perhaps deadly) assault by the barbaric Reds, then isn’t it justified for these people to provide for their own security? Why should they depend or trust the police who have always been part of that same criminal syndicate with the TRT/PPP mafia?
And yes, one can view that the PAD act as if they own Ratchadamnoen Road, but (again in my ultra-nationalist, proto-facist, elitist view) that’s still better than the Reds who act like they own several, entire provinces and willing to enforce those ridiculous beliefs with violent and barbaric attacks and destruction of private property.
UDON THANI : A PAD supporter was killed and 17 others injured yesterday when a large mob armed with knives and clubs attacked a People’s Alliance for Democracy rally. The clash occurred at Nong Prachak Silapakhom public park in the municipal area, where around 150 PAD supporters were gathering.
About 700 anti-PAD demonstrators armed with machetes, axes, iron bars and wooden sticks stormed the rally site in the afternoon, attacking the PAD supporters and pulling down the stage.
The anti-PAD group was led by Uthai Saenkaew, brother of Deputy Agriculture Minister Theerachai Saenkaew, and Kwanchai Praipana. Mr Uthai allegedly urged his men to kill the PAD guards.
The attackers, in a group calling themselves Khon Rak Udon (We Love Udon), gathered at Thung Sri Muang before marching to Nong Prachak Silapakhom.
Following the attack on the PAD, they paraded around the town and walked back to Thung Sri Muang to celebrate.
The injured were sent to Udon Thani Hospital. The man who died was a PAD security guard. He had suffered an axe blow to the head, according to Veera Somkwamkid, a PAD ally.
Thaikorn Polsuwan, also a PAD ally, lashed out at police yesterday for failing to stop the Khon Rak Udon demonstrators from mounting their attack.
”Police allowed the Khon Rak Udon group in and simply watched them attack us. Khon Rak Udon also stopped ambulances from taking the injured to hospital,” said Mr Thaikorn.
The clash took place despite extra security measures deployed by the combined 450 forces of provincial police and border patrol police volunteers.
Mr Veera said Mr Kwanchai and police must be held liable for the bloodshed.
But Pol Maj-Gen Permsak Paradasak, chief of Udon Thani police, said officers did their best to prevent violence.
Governor Supoj Laowansiri instructed police to investigate the matter and take appropriate action.
The clash came less than 24 hours after a skirmish between PAD supporters and opponents in Maha Sarakham’s Muang district on Wednesday night.
The incident on Wednesday night left dozens injured, including former senator for Buri Ram Karun Saingam, who suffered a mild head injury after being hit by a missile from a slingshot.
In Buri Ram, a PAD rally was scrapped yesterday when anti-PAD demonstrators stormed the rally site and demolished the stage set up in front of a railway station in Muang district.
PAD coordinator Suriyasai Katasila demanded the government and the Interior Ministry accept responsibility for failing to stop the violence.
He had asked PAD allies nationwide to join the rally in Bangkok if they believed it was unsafe to demonstrate in their own areas.
Air force commander ACM Chalit Phukpasuk called on both sides to refrain from violence
One wonders who that Kwanchai is to decide who can or cannot use his/her constitutional rights in Udon Thani province. Has this guy some special constitutional status or what? And who is the PAD to demarcate its own little state within Thailand on Ratchadamnoen Avenue with barbed wire, even having its own army to defend it? Doesn’t the constitution say that Thailand is one and indivisible Kingdom?
It’s all part of the boom-bust cycle of monarchical government. The greater the king, the bigger the bust when his reign comes to an end, as his frightened flunkeys run amok.
well, from what i’ve seen the police didn’t seem keen on keeping the peace that day of the incident. The clip that I mention that was aired on PBS Thursday night showing an unarmed PAD being ganged up by 5 – 6 Reds beating him with flagpoles repeatly, well, the police officer that finally came by almost looked as if he was strolling in, not as if he was rushing to help the victim at all (so either the Police are complicit – remember the group of Reds was led by brother of powerful local PPP politician, or the other possibility is that this particular policeman was just afraid that he might get a few whacks himself, which isn’t an excuse either). Clips showing the burning of PAD private property by the Reds also show the police kinda just watching it all happen, standing around like idiots.
The perpetrators of violence and crime must be bought to justice ASAP
I hope so too, but one of the leaders of the Reds seems to think otherwise, by saying this for a televised interview: “Yes, I did it and I am not afraid of legal action because I will be charged only public brawl charges.”
Pro-government activist admits on TV he led protests to beat up PAD protesters in Udon Thani
Kwanchai Praiphana, leader of the Udon Thani Guard Group, admitted during an interview on Channel 3 that he let his supporters to beat up protesters led by the People’s Alliance for Democracy.
Kwanchai vowed to lead his supporters to beat PAD protesters again if they hold another rally in the northeastern province.
On Thursday, Kwanchai led hundreds of protesters demolish PAD’s stage and beat up PAD protesters, seriously injuring two of them.
Kwanchai said he had warned local PAD supporters several times not to organise a rally in the province, because he regarded that anti-government rallies damaged the province’s reputation.
“Yes, I did it and I am not afraid of legal action because I will be charged only public brawl charges,” Kwanchai said.
“I’ve warned them several times that they must not come here.”
By the way, Moe Aung, I did pass my matriculation in the academic year 1971-1972 with distinctions in Physics, Chemistry, and Mathematics. My roll number is 21742. I almost got into Medicine but I was just two marks short. They gave me Dentistry and RIT. You can check it out if you still have access to student records from the Basic Education Department .
In a way you are a typical Burmese with a paranoid schizophrenic fear, always thinking and suspecting every other Burmese works for the MIS. That’s what a brutal totalitarian system has done to us Burmese. It took me more than 20 years of peaceful living in a free country like Australia to rid of that fear.
“We have nothing to fear but fear itself!”
————————————————————————————-
We oppose terror because it forces us to choose between murdering and being murdered; and it makes communication impossible. This is why we reject any ideology that claims control over all of human life.
Nganadeeleg, I don’t know. I am just deeply saddened, depressed and numb by the violence committed by TRT/PPP supporters (it was MURDER if the Nation’s report is true)… We had a bloodless coup – but we can’ t have peaceful protests under a democratic regime. I hope the police handle this case appropriately – otherwise it can easily precipitate into another coup. The perpetrators of violence and crime must be bought to justice ASAP…
I didn’t write this essay particularly for the New Mandala. I wrote it for a group forum of RIT alumni on Yahoo many months ago for the 19th July Martyrs Day. After I posted this essay on the RIT forum, which has close to 4000 RIT graduates as active members, my Yahoo email was almost overwhelmed by tens of private emails from my contemporaries. Mainly the painful recalls of all the events during that uprising. Some even wept in their emails.
No one refuted my story or even doubted my sincerity. How dare you, Moe Aung, or whoever you are?
Only surprising thing was no one, not a single one of them old RIT graduates, dared to post their reply publicly to my post in the forum. Am I the brave one or a stupid one with a death wish.
I wrote what I saw and what I did during that time. No more, no less. Maybe some events I couldn’t recall clearly now. It was 34 years ago and I am now 53 and almost dying from liver cirrhosis and my old battle wounds. I just would like to tell the story so that people remember and so my fellow students didn’t die in vain.
But I have to admit that your doubts about me and your line of reasoning is quite logical. Amazingly logical. You definitely read the essay very thorough and cleverly picked the seemingly illogical holes. Very highly educated, probably retired, nothing to do, aren’t you, Moe Aung? A retired army general with very accessible Internet terminal right at home?
But you are wrong. Completely wrong. I did fight in the army, I admit it since the beginning of posting here. I basically grew up in the army as a son of former army officer turned Communist, but I left the army in very early 1974 and I had nothing to do with the army since then. I even admitted that two of the younger generals in SPDC were my dear classmates at the army high school. It is a very long story. But it is my private life and I didn’t want to air it here, period.
The reason you don’t like the first part is me mentioning of the violence committed by the protesters, isn’t it? Ugly violence is always a part of mob, whether they are rioting or protesting. You sounded like you have no complaints about second part of the essay though. Why is that? Do you like it?
Any way, thanks for your remarkable and well thought-off comments. You will hear from me more though. I am on a mission to change the history of our beloved Burma, provided God let me live a few more years.
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Pithy summary of lese majeste in Thailand
I agree with you too, T/TT, with an additional comment that one monarch and his cronies have corrupted the people’s judgement with chequebooks, and the other side with guns. The electorate have followed their best interest in preferring the relatively benign to the positively malignant.
Thuggery and madness
It’s for the PAD to reassess their repugnant action. Quid pro quo, isn’t it?
Time to go home
Re #78
Nice intervention into the discussion by another “academic”. I propose (especially to those who wish to have an honest discussion of the issues) to keep the discussions here , rather than move to a new thread, so that people’s attention are not diverted away from the many informative comments that have already been made on the topic in this “Time to go home” thread about the PAD.
So I will be making comments on the “Thuggery and madness” post by Andrew here in this thread, and invite others to do the same.
the PAD is not content with protest within a democratic framework
But is the PAD protesting within a democratic framework? Sorry that I can’t , as usual, tow the “academic” line, but the PAD are protesting against mafia-led TRT/PPP governmental criminal syndicate, which is by no means a “democratic framework”.
The barbaric rampage by 700 or more Thaksin Reds (backed by brother powerful local PPP politician who is Deputy Agriculture Minister) against peaceful protesters whom the Police seemed unwilling to protect is a manifestation of the undemocratic framework. The Thaksin government’s murder with impunity of 2500 fellow Thais in war on drugs, and murder of 78 minority Muslim villagers in the South, are also classic manifestations of the very undemocratic framework which the PAD are protesting in.
And they have explicitly rejected the expression, and resolution, of political differences through electoral processes
It’s not just about “political differences” though. For myself, and many anti-Thaksins out there, it is about BRINGING THE CRIMINALS TO JUSTICE. Yes, the man who plundered the country like no one else has done before, and murdered several thousand fellow Thai citizens for a marketing stunt. So, I am not ashamed to say that I reject
“judgment by elections” because CRIMES (especially the very serious ones commited by Thaksin and Co.) were NEVER meant in any democratic society to be judged by “electoral processes”. These matters are to be resolved by judicial processes , like ALL democratic countries in the world do.
They have stoked nationalist passions which have bought Thai-Cambodia relations to the brink of conflict…
… If indeed Udon Thani’s political thugs have caused the death of a PAD protester, then they have given the PAD a martyr that its undemocratic and increasingly discredited cause so desperately needs
Again, I am bewildered by “academic” logic. So stoking nationalist passions by the PADs must be condemned, BUT the condemnation for the deliberate escalation of violence by the Thaksin Reds is not the violence itself but rather that such violence has created a martyr?? I guess in the world that we live in, the human dignity and value of life of a person can be taken away from people depending on which political views one holds. It is a sad world indeed.
For me, the stoking of unreasonable nationalism should be condemned, by what the Reds have done in Udon and several other provinces should also be condemned. In fact, I find the latter act much much more likely to led to very dangerous situations for Thailand. Kuson has already spoken about the Tit-for-Tat scenario which could be very destructive. I just pray that the PAD protesters will remain committed to non-violence against the barbaric rampages by the Reds, otherwise things will get very ugly indeed.
In fact, this deliberate escalation of violence by the Thaksin Reds (especially if it doesn’t stop) will be opening the road to what most of us fear the most, ie. a military coup. So, the question is, perhaps this is what Thaksin wants? ie. provoke coup, make PAD and opponents the scapegoat, and then return to power as a hero of democracy.
Time to go home
[…] PAD leadership must also take its share of responsibility. As I have argued before, the PAD is not content with protest within a democratic framework. Their strategy is to keep […]
1974 U Thant uprising – a first hand account
Jesus Christ almighty! Moe Aung, you surprise me. Who the hell are you really? Are you from the MIS? Ha ha, just kidding.
Any way, since you have asked I should answer the crazy story of me. I was born in the jungle near Pyinmana. ( Actually I could now call myself a Nay-Pyi-Daw born since they cleared the jungle and built the so-called capital there.) It was during the Aung-Mar-Ga opeartion and I almost died, but my elder sister died.
Later my mother with my baby brother was captured by a Chin battalion. Usually these Chins killed every communist caught alive. Fortunately their commander had served under my father during WW2. So he kept my family alive as hostages in their battalion compound for years and finally his boss General Tin Oo, who was a young cadet when my father was a senior Burmese instructor at the Japanese Military Academy, persuaded my father and his division to surrender. That was the end of my father’s pathetic rebellion.
One other reason for his surrender was that, I think, he didn’t like Chinese and didn’t agree with the BCP’s policy shift towards China. He was then a member of Central Committee and controlled the biggest military division of the Communist Party’s red army. You see, our generals are not stupid at all. They are winning the civil war not just by killing their enemies. My father’s eventual surrender proves that.
I, a ten years old wide-eyed boy, ended up in the army boarding school run by then La-Pa-Kha command under General Tin Oo (now NLD vice chairman) in Mingaladon. Usually almost all the graduates from my school ended up in DSA, provided they passed matriculation. That was my dream too when I finished my year 10. But my father refused, so I ran away from home, joined the army as private right at the height of civil war in 1972 or 1973, I forgot now.
After almost 2 years on the front line on China border and people getting killed all around me like flies, I realized the crazy folly of my stupidness. Suddenly I discovered I didn’t want to die. So I deserted the army, came back home, and rejoined the RIT. Actually, General Kyaw Htin, who fought in my father’s battalion as a young lieutenant during the Japanese Revolution, saved my neck from the hangable offense of “the desertion with a 9mm pistol”, and I had to promise him that I would keep my mouth shut forever, which I’d kept for almost 30 years till the PTSD got hold of me recently and I had to go see a psychologist.
The rest is straight forward, an ordinary story of universities and works and moving from county to country looking for a greener pasture. As a therapy, I wrote a fictionalized-semi-autobiographical novel called “A Boy Soldier” based on the early 18 years of my life and self-published last year. My book seems quite popular on the internet and now I am near to closing a representation deal with a literary agency in Europe to publish my book all over the world. I am giving away half of the money to the Burmese charities.
I hope and wish I will be able to use my forthcoming-notoriety for my stated mission for the good cause of Burma. Moe Aung, I honestly hope you are satisfied with my this answer.
Thomas Bleming in the news
Sure seems strange, hardy no one gave a damn in the press about what’s going on over in the rebel controlled area of eastern Burma, then my book “War in Karen Country” came out and like rats in a cellar, all the criticism against me for my publishing a story (using my own money), about the plight of the Karen people.
None of those who write the trash in your on-line thread would do anything to help these embattled people and I can see from reading the various “opinions” of your readership that their sympathies lie with the Burmese SPDC and their drug running allies the DKB.
I also have taken note that I am the target of ridicule from other elements who have NEVER been to S.E. Asia, let alone to Burma (I having made numerous trips in and out of there in the past two years), and inspite of all the news about the Burmese repression, murder and torture of their own citizens, including the recent cyclone they seem to divert their hate in my direction.
I have moved on to other projects and can assure your readership that I will continue to be active on the world stage, although I have as I stated earlier, passed on all future possibilites, with regards to assisting the Karen to others.
Lastly, let me say that I am proud to have done what little I did for the Karen struggle. Although, when I left the Republic of Kawthoolei (April 18th 2008), I knew that perhaps it would be quite a while until I would return.
I am sincerely gratefull to those of you who have supported my mission and I want those of you to know that I will try to always live up to your expectations.
Pithy summary of lese majeste in Thailand
Agreed, with the added proviso that we now have 2 monarchs, each with a set of flunkeys.
Time to go home
a small correction to this phrase:
“Well, since 450 police officers in Udon seemed unable”
“seemed” should read “were in fact”
1974 U Thant uprising – a first hand account
Thanks for the accolade, Hla Oo aka Harry Oo, also for the full diagnosis not just paranoia. Am I now on a pedestal along with your generals? Feet of clay comes to mind.
Well, I’ll be interested in how a son of a former officer turned Communist rebel came to grow up among the enemy in the army and to serve in it, what kind of twist in destiny at play here I wonder. Family connections or just old friends/comrades in the Tatmadaw?
There was no mention of any violence let alone killing at the old race course at Kyaikasan anywhere. Here’s the story as told by one of your fellow student protesters from the RIT, Henry Soe-Win:
Peace Eludes U Thant
http://www.asiantribune.com/?q=node/11810
And the story of the student leader Tin Maung Oo, a Chin national:
http://www.chinforum.org/PUBS/TMOEng.pdf
The state’s reaction to this challenge to their hold on power was predictable as shown before with no room for doubt on July 7, 1962. As Ne Win had said before in the wake of the massacre in 1962 – sword against sword and spear against spear, only they used G3s, and was also to say later in 1987 – when the army shoots, it aims to hit. Most of the latter part of your article is common knowledge in Burma.
BTW did you acquire the name Harry after you’d arrived in Oz? I’m sorry to hear about your health and I’d say good luck on your stated mission. If you are a Buddhist like me, you know your karma awaits you – as you sow so shall you reap, but there’s still time to atone for your sins just like Ne Win tried by building the Maha Wizaya pagoda to change his karma. I’m sure you can do better than a symbolic gesture. So I’ll wish you the universal Buddhist wish – may all sentient beings without exception be happy.
Time to go home
Re #75
Thanks for your usual academic, not-taking-sides comment on things. Let me share with you some of my one-sided, ultra-nationalist, proto-facist, elitist view on things, just like always.
One wonders who that Kwanchai is to decide who can or cannot use his/her constitutional rights in Udon Thani province. Has this guy some special constitutional status or what?
It was Kwanchai and 700 or so Reds that stormed into the PAD protesters with machetes, knives, clubs etc, so (from my proto-facist, ultra-nationalist, elitist view on things) the question is: Who are the Thaksin Reds (i.e. Kwanchai + 700 Reds) who think that they can violently assault (and perhaps even murder – Nation and Bangkokpost having reported one death) other Thai citizens who happen to have different views and chase them out of the province. In fact this type of violent chasing away (but less violent than Udon incident) and destruction of PAD’s private property is being done by the Thaksin Reds in several other provinces too such as Chiangmai and Buri Ram.
And who is the PAD to demarcate its own little state within Thailand on Ratchadamnoen Avenue with barbed wire, even having its own army to defend it?
My, oh my, oh my… even having its own army to defend itself?? Guess that is the academic way to react. But sorry, since I’m not an academic (but rather an elitist, ultra-nationalist, proto-facist), my view is different
Well, since 450 police officers in Udon seemed unable (in my view, not unable but unwilling) to protect fellow Thai citizens from violent (and perhaps deadly) assault by the barbaric Reds, then isn’t it justified for these people to provide for their own security? Why should they depend or trust the police who have always been part of that same criminal syndicate with the TRT/PPP mafia?
And yes, one can view that the PAD act as if they own Ratchadamnoen Road, but (again in my ultra-nationalist, proto-facist, elitist view) that’s still better than the Reds who act like they own several, entire provinces and willing to enforce those ridiculous beliefs with violent and barbaric attacks and destruction of private property.
“Let the electorate judge”
from Bangkokpost:
UDON THANI : A PAD supporter was killed and 17 others injured yesterday when a large mob armed with knives and clubs attacked a People’s Alliance for Democracy rally. The clash occurred at Nong Prachak Silapakhom public park in the municipal area, where around 150 PAD supporters were gathering.
About 700 anti-PAD demonstrators armed with machetes, axes, iron bars and wooden sticks stormed the rally site in the afternoon, attacking the PAD supporters and pulling down the stage.
The anti-PAD group was led by Uthai Saenkaew, brother of Deputy Agriculture Minister Theerachai Saenkaew, and Kwanchai Praipana. Mr Uthai allegedly urged his men to kill the PAD guards.
The attackers, in a group calling themselves Khon Rak Udon (We Love Udon), gathered at Thung Sri Muang before marching to Nong Prachak Silapakhom.
Following the attack on the PAD, they paraded around the town and walked back to Thung Sri Muang to celebrate.
The injured were sent to Udon Thani Hospital. The man who died was a PAD security guard. He had suffered an axe blow to the head, according to Veera Somkwamkid, a PAD ally.
Thaikorn Polsuwan, also a PAD ally, lashed out at police yesterday for failing to stop the Khon Rak Udon demonstrators from mounting their attack.
”Police allowed the Khon Rak Udon group in and simply watched them attack us. Khon Rak Udon also stopped ambulances from taking the injured to hospital,” said Mr Thaikorn.
The clash took place despite extra security measures deployed by the combined 450 forces of provincial police and border patrol police volunteers.
Mr Veera said Mr Kwanchai and police must be held liable for the bloodshed.
But Pol Maj-Gen Permsak Paradasak, chief of Udon Thani police, said officers did their best to prevent violence.
Governor Supoj Laowansiri instructed police to investigate the matter and take appropriate action.
The clash came less than 24 hours after a skirmish between PAD supporters and opponents in Maha Sarakham’s Muang district on Wednesday night.
The incident on Wednesday night left dozens injured, including former senator for Buri Ram Karun Saingam, who suffered a mild head injury after being hit by a missile from a slingshot.
In Buri Ram, a PAD rally was scrapped yesterday when anti-PAD demonstrators stormed the rally site and demolished the stage set up in front of a railway station in Muang district.
PAD coordinator Suriyasai Katasila demanded the government and the Interior Ministry accept responsibility for failing to stop the violence.
He had asked PAD allies nationwide to join the rally in Bangkok if they believed it was unsafe to demonstrate in their own areas.
Air force commander ACM Chalit Phukpasuk called on both sides to refrain from violence
Time to go home
One wonders who that Kwanchai is to decide who can or cannot use his/her constitutional rights in Udon Thani province. Has this guy some special constitutional status or what? And who is the PAD to demarcate its own little state within Thailand on Ratchadamnoen Avenue with barbed wire, even having its own army to defend it? Doesn’t the constitution say that Thailand is one and indivisible Kingdom?
Pithy summary of lese majeste in Thailand
It’s all part of the boom-bust cycle of monarchical government. The greater the king, the bigger the bust when his reign comes to an end, as his frightened flunkeys run amok.
“Let the electorate judge”
I hope the police handle this case appropriately
well, from what i’ve seen the police didn’t seem keen on keeping the peace that day of the incident. The clip that I mention that was aired on PBS Thursday night showing an unarmed PAD being ganged up by 5 – 6 Reds beating him with flagpoles repeatly, well, the police officer that finally came by almost looked as if he was strolling in, not as if he was rushing to help the victim at all (so either the Police are complicit – remember the group of Reds was led by brother of powerful local PPP politician, or the other possibility is that this particular policeman was just afraid that he might get a few whacks himself, which isn’t an excuse either). Clips showing the burning of PAD private property by the Reds also show the police kinda just watching it all happen, standing around like idiots.
The perpetrators of violence and crime must be bought to justice ASAP
I hope so too, but one of the leaders of the Reds seems to think otherwise, by saying this for a televised interview: “Yes, I did it and I am not afraid of legal action because I will be charged only public brawl charges.”
Pithy summary of lese majeste in Thailand
“Pithy” ? I would say “pitiful”.
We would expect Reuters do go a little bit further than just transmitting a paper… written by a Thai !
They should know better and do a real work… For instance… first… get a translation of the famous “speech”, quoted by Sondhi.
The article seriously downplays what was said…
On all the lese-majeste issues, it’s a fact that to really understand the only solution is to to rely on… foreigners sources and analysis.
For obvious reasons.
(this is precisely what I tried to do : listening to the speech and translating some parts…)
Only then, we can start a usefull reporting and debate work.
Time to go home
From the Nation:
Pro-government activist admits on TV he led protests to beat up PAD protesters in Udon Thani
Kwanchai Praiphana, leader of the Udon Thani Guard Group, admitted during an interview on Channel 3 that he let his supporters to beat up protesters led by the People’s Alliance for Democracy.
Kwanchai vowed to lead his supporters to beat PAD protesters again if they hold another rally in the northeastern province.
On Thursday, Kwanchai led hundreds of protesters demolish PAD’s stage and beat up PAD protesters, seriously injuring two of them.
Kwanchai said he had warned local PAD supporters several times not to organise a rally in the province, because he regarded that anti-government rallies damaged the province’s reputation.
“Yes, I did it and I am not afraid of legal action because I will be charged only public brawl charges,” Kwanchai said.
“I’ve warned them several times that they must not come here.”
1974 U Thant uprising – a first hand account
By the way, Moe Aung, I did pass my matriculation in the academic year 1971-1972 with distinctions in Physics, Chemistry, and Mathematics. My roll number is 21742. I almost got into Medicine but I was just two marks short. They gave me Dentistry and RIT. You can check it out if you still have access to student records from the Basic Education Department .
In a way you are a typical Burmese with a paranoid schizophrenic fear, always thinking and suspecting every other Burmese works for the MIS. That’s what a brutal totalitarian system has done to us Burmese. It took me more than 20 years of peaceful living in a free country like Australia to rid of that fear.
“We have nothing to fear but fear itself!”
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We oppose terror because it forces us to choose between murdering and being murdered; and it makes communication impossible. This is why we reject any ideology that claims control over all of human life.
(Albert Camus)
“Let the electorate judge”
Nganadeeleg, I don’t know. I am just deeply saddened, depressed and numb by the violence committed by TRT/PPP supporters (it was MURDER if the Nation’s report is true)… We had a bloodless coup – but we can’ t have peaceful protests under a democratic regime. I hope the police handle this case appropriately – otherwise it can easily precipitate into another coup. The perpetrators of violence and crime must be bought to justice ASAP…
1974 U Thant uprising – a first hand account
I didn’t write this essay particularly for the New Mandala. I wrote it for a group forum of RIT alumni on Yahoo many months ago for the 19th July Martyrs Day. After I posted this essay on the RIT forum, which has close to 4000 RIT graduates as active members, my Yahoo email was almost overwhelmed by tens of private emails from my contemporaries. Mainly the painful recalls of all the events during that uprising. Some even wept in their emails.
No one refuted my story or even doubted my sincerity. How dare you, Moe Aung, or whoever you are?
Only surprising thing was no one, not a single one of them old RIT graduates, dared to post their reply publicly to my post in the forum. Am I the brave one or a stupid one with a death wish.
I wrote what I saw and what I did during that time. No more, no less. Maybe some events I couldn’t recall clearly now. It was 34 years ago and I am now 53 and almost dying from liver cirrhosis and my old battle wounds. I just would like to tell the story so that people remember and so my fellow students didn’t die in vain.
But I have to admit that your doubts about me and your line of reasoning is quite logical. Amazingly logical. You definitely read the essay very thorough and cleverly picked the seemingly illogical holes. Very highly educated, probably retired, nothing to do, aren’t you, Moe Aung? A retired army general with very accessible Internet terminal right at home?
But you are wrong. Completely wrong. I did fight in the army, I admit it since the beginning of posting here. I basically grew up in the army as a son of former army officer turned Communist, but I left the army in very early 1974 and I had nothing to do with the army since then. I even admitted that two of the younger generals in SPDC were my dear classmates at the army high school. It is a very long story. But it is my private life and I didn’t want to air it here, period.
The reason you don’t like the first part is me mentioning of the violence committed by the protesters, isn’t it? Ugly violence is always a part of mob, whether they are rioting or protesting. You sounded like you have no complaints about second part of the essay though. Why is that? Do you like it?
Any way, thanks for your remarkable and well thought-off comments. You will hear from me more though. I am on a mission to change the history of our beloved Burma, provided God let me live a few more years.
“Let the electorate judge”
On the subject of adopting old techniques and some new tricks – what can be read into recent events at Udon Thani?