What a ripping yarn, Hla Oo, though I must admit I’m not quite sure what to make of it. It seems to leave us with more questions than answers regarding this particular episode in the history of modern Burma.
You were one of the students and yet you painted them and their actions thus:
‘brutal assault’, ‘blood bath’, ‘murderous intents’, ‘band of rouge (sic) students’, ‘violent mob’, ‘tortured and confessed spies’, ‘brutal beating and bashing would go on every night’, ‘totally out of control’, ‘informants were killed’, ‘blood thirsty crowd’, ‘brave or naive’, ‘
There was also this ‘ fierce-looking throng of Military Police, civilian police, and many government officials’ , perhaps outnumbered but unarmed and overwhelmed?
The students did manage to occupy the funeral pavilion and snatch the casket but other detailed accounts do not corroborate your version of a violent student mob attacking and killing the officials.
You said you went to an army school and served in the army before you got into university. And how did you get enrolled into an engineering degree course at the prestigious RIT as a former soldier? The usual route through the good offices of the MIS (Military Intelligence Service)?
The use of agent provocateurs to incite violence in order to justify a brutal crackdown by the distressed government is a well known tactic. They have even been known to release violent criminals from prison for this purpose at times of crisis as in 1988.
And how come you got despatched posthaste back home whereas your baby brother was at large in Rangoon and left to his own devices? Favouritism?
You also faithfully reported the official version claiming it was all a plot by U Nu implying that the students were either duped or willing stooges.
The role of Buddhist monks, actively involved in the demonstrations and also bayoneted for their trouble, and of workers preparing for a general strike were conveniently forgotten, so it became a conspiracy of U Nu’s exile rebels and a handful of student leaders as an act of violence and sabotage.
And I wondered why the first part read rather like an article in the New Light of Myanmar.
Sidh: I basically agree with you, and on reflection, I could have worded it better.
Saying new dynasty or overtake the old dynasty, was too simplistic.
On the one hand there is the fear of another network morphing, with it’s leaders adopting many of the techniques that made the old one so successful, as well as bringing in some new tricks.
There is also a possibility that the Thaksin phenomenon is just being used as a means to an end and he will have to be put in is place at a later date.
(in some ways it’s a real twist to think of Thaksin himself as just a pawn in a bigger game)
Yes, Thailand feels so chummy, compared to coming across armed police chasing a robber in Columbus, OH (I’ve got your wife beat, BTW; one evening I stepped out on my own patio only to encounter a policeman with his gun drawn chasing a gang banger down the gangway, patio, and across my garden).
Violence in Thailand is different, and perhaps you need to be involved with people in a certain way to become aware of it. For women in Thailand, it’s the risk of violence related to sexuality. By this I don’t just mean sexual violence as in rape, but the encompassing sense of the possibility of violence if you don’t behave according to Thai male expectations (here, speaking in terms of the hegemony of male prerogatives and my apologies to my dear male Thai friends who by no means accept the prevailing culture of male sexuality and in fact resist it).
For instance (and I could go on at great length with many, many more examples): One day I was leaning over the balcony at my northern university when a friend casually motioned to a large smudge on the asphalt of the parking lot below us. A woman employee of the university who was divorcing her husband (supposedly because he was lai jai) acceded to his request to talk to him about it one last time. They sat in her VW Bug to talk; and he blew them both up with a hand grenade.
Or, at times when I was back from the field I would hang out at a local cafe run by a local man and his farang wife. Nice, small, intimate, great food after you’ve been in the field for a while. A Thai friend of the owners takes an interest in me. I do my usual thing of avoidance (can’t let the man lose face by turning him down flat!); then he follows me home and finds my phone number and starts calling. I tell my landlady, Pa, to simply say I’m “bon doi.” Which she does, for a time, until she sits me down and says I can’t continue to avoid him because he knows when I’m in town. If I don’t give in and go out with him, then she’s afraid we’ll be bombed. Well, now I can’t say “no” to him, and I can’t avoid him through the polite lie. Pa also points out to me the various stories we’ve read in the Thai news over the years about murdered women, sometimes murdered by men the woman herself did not know (e.g., the bus driver who murdered a woman he had a crush on, although apparently she did not know it). As Pa explained it to me, men’s desire can’t be denied, if it is, it makes them crazy; implied was that women had to give in to prevent this explosion. All I could do was leave town for a while until it blew over.
Think about that. I HAVE to go out with this man (married, violent, arrogant) or put my friends and local ‘family’ in danger. That’s a kind of violence that isn’t in the statistics, but underlays the statistics. Thai women face this to a constant level that I did not, I’m sure.
Corrupt Thai cops! That bastards give me nightmares just by remembering them before bed.
I was educated in Bangkok and then I used to live and work in Thailand for many years and as a near-fluent Thai speaker I never had any serious problem there. But one bad experience scared me so much, nowadays I refuse to even visit there. It involved a taxi-meter cab and a couple of real bad cops.
It was the time Donmuang Airport was still operating and when I arrived in Bangkok from Sydney one early morning, instead of waiting for a cab at arrival I went upstairs to grab one of the cabs just dropping his fare at departure, as I always did. That smart-ass practice gave me always quicker and cheaper ride to city. But that day my luck ran out.
The middle-aged cabbie didn’t reset his meter which was still ticking at over 600 bahts from last fare. I told him to restart, but he just ignored me and just driving real fast as the early morning traffic was clear. So I tried to get out as I had only two small cases with me inside the cab. But he wouldn’t stop long enough for me to get out.
Finally we were stopped at a policed intersection, it was Suthisan or one or two before that on Phaholyothin Road I don’t remember now, and I immediately opened the door and stood outside and tried to talk down the fare which was now more than 950 bahts.
I tried to give him a 500 baht note, which was the biggest note then, but he didn’t take it and got out and yelled out to the cops nearby. Two fat cops came running, one with pistol drawn. I tried to explain to them in my broken Thai and English as the driver was complaining that I was doing a runner.
Make the story short, the cops definitely knew the true story, but they forced me at gun point to give the driver two 500 bahts notes, and so I fearfully did. As soon as I handed the driver two notes one fat cop grabbed both notes out of the driver’s hand, gave one note to other cop, put one into his shirt pocket, and both sauntered back to where their motorcycle was and then just rode away. That day I took a bus to city and since then I avoid Bangkok if possible.
summarized well in one paragraph taken from that blog as follows:
“Thailand’s police did not become an organized crime gang by accident. The modern force was from the beginning intended both as a criminal and political agency, monopolizing the drug trade and murdering or detaining opponents, including other police. It quickly became unstoppable as, historian Thak Chaloemtiara notes, while people whispered about its crimes “investigation was impossible, for the crimes were committed by the police themselves.”
Yes, and these guys are under the command of Big Boss and his TRT/PPP mafia.
I disagree. I think Mr. Foster is just trying to be a good friend to a man he’s known for a long time. I’ll agree that Bleming is in over his head, but I think Mr. Foster’s intentions are good.
I’d like to talk about a subject that Papaya brushed upon in his essay that I think is actually very pertinent to the issue at hand: the emphasis on sciences.
it seems to me that when bureaucrats and politicians as well as many thai concerned parents talk about improving education for our children, what they have in mind is an increased emphasis on the sciences, on churning out more inventors, scientists, doctors and Academic Olympiad medalists. from my own (admittedly limited) experiences browsing through governmental scholarship databases, observing the interests of scholars sent abroad, watching thai TV’s coverage of Academic Olympiad medalists and students’ innovative science projects and, inevitably, glimpsing the hidden disappointment in some adults’ faces once they find out that i am apparently planning to squander my Yale education on a history and international studies degree.
science, it is believed, is this underdeveloped nation’s path towards success, therefore it makes sense that we must concentrate all of our resources (including the brightest students, as seen by the way that Entrance examinations are run) here. Philosophical discourse is a privilege of the affluent.
seen from a more cynical stand point, however, i feel that science became the favoured child and the rallying point of reformers because of its innocuousness. encouraging critical thinking in the sciences does not lead to a questioning of the current status quo, it does not invite students to investigate touchy subjects like the monarchy, the constitution and the sacred tenets of Thainess (the holy trinity of nation, monarch and religion – which is to say, mainstream buddhism) as critical thinking in the humanities would inevitably do.
therefore it seems to me like the only way thai kids are ever going to get the well rounded education that they need is for more acharns – and more adults in general – to begin that most important and most dangerous task of removing the ubiquitous yellow tape from subjects of inquiry. let me put it another way: with so many things untouchable, where can intellectual inquiry start?
but alas, the threat of 15 years in jail (or worse) has kept most walking the narrow middle path of social acceptability with their hands up high in the air in absolute surrender at the expense of our nation’s intelligence.
Isn’t Ruby Wax the American who created the British hit Absolutely Fabulous? How strange, and yes, maybe a bit snobbish, to hear her commenting on Laos in this way. I’m not sure Starbucks is the death knell for authenticity that people think it is. I remember going to a locally-owned (I think) cafe in Luang Prabang that was pretty clearly modeled on something like Starbucks. Then again maybe I should read the piece Wax was quoted in before I say more!
Further, it seems that Sondhi Lim has been accused (again) of this crime although he hasn’t been arrested like “da torpedo.” Is there something interesting in this?
errr, if the fact that it takes time for police to process a warrant after a crime has been reported can be considered “interesting” then i suppose the answer to your (decidedly not-dumb-at-all, really) question is yes.
Was watching NBT News, and it was reported that after police issued an arrest warrant Sondhi handed himself in this morning, was interrogated and then released on bail. Police made a point to say that his case is being handled in the same way as that of da torpedo.
What is sad, however, was after switching over to PBS channel, they were reporting the violent attack by Thaksin Reds against the peaceful PAD protesters in Udon.
Basically, it was reported that in the afternoon, large group of Reds led by brother of local PPP politican (who is the deputy agriculture minister) ran in holding axes, knives and other sharp weapons and began attacking randomly the PAD protesters. The crowd quickly dispersed in fear but many had been injured. It is estimated (these figures and details not yet substantiated) that at least 20 PADs were injured, of which 8 critically including a woman who was stabbed and it was said that one man may have died (I then went to check the manager website there they reported that 2 died, one man, one woman). The Reds then burnt the PAD’s property that was left behind.
PBS aired a video clip of the incident which someone had filmed and the part I saw was horrible. About 5 – 6 Reds ganging up on one unarmed PAD protester, hitting him with flagpoles, he dropped onto the ground and curled up but the Reds just keep beating and ramming him everywhere with the flagpoles until a police officer came.
Anyways, I used to think the group of nationalistic PADs running out to plant the Thai flagpole on Preah Vihear was quite crazy, but after seeing what these bunch of crazy Reds were doing with flagpoles, well, it’s just beyond any possible comparison.
I will pray and spread the mettha to the PADs who were attacked, and hope the Buddhists here will do the same for them also.
Nganadeeleg, I have and have made my views known in the old blogs. A Shinawatra dynasty is only possible with a return to absolute monarchy after years of a very bloody civil war – with the partition of the country as a probably result. No, come to think of it again, it is impossible (especially even army commanders loyal to PMThaksin refused to fire a shot in the 2006 coup)… I also doubt that that is PMThaksin’s aspirations. 5 years premiership, even 20, cannot compare with 200+ years lineage. But he can easily infiltrate, yes, and if he was more patient and contained his greed – strategically spread out his power and money monopolization process over a much longer period, he could have become Thailand’s version of N.Korea’s Great Leader. We all remembered his first year in office – quality cabinet ministers + quality policies. It turned out too good to be true…
I think LSS has a point on “critical thinking”. I’ve done a five year architecture undergraduate degree in a Thai public university and have experience this first hand. In most classes, I remember that my colleagues and myself rarely ask questions. This is particularly so when the mode of teaching was ‘transmitting knowledge’. However, when the lecturer was intentionally controversial and challenging in a good humored way, questions can flow (we have our mixes of ‘strict/stern’ and ‘kind/funny’ professors and react accordingly).
On the other hand, outside of the classroom I find that my classmates are on the most part highly critical thinkers and being architects, who rarely sleep, discussion of various topics (some downright creatively stupid)can go on long into the night. I am not sure about other fields of studies, but generally I find that whether Thais reveal their true thoughts depends on the personal relationship. With seniors, teachers, people one don’t feel close to, it is often ‘better remain quiet than suffer the wrath/consequence’ – but with friends, it is rather different.
We’ve often heard from Phuyais (and I am vague on how it exactly goes) that at formal gatherings you don’t discuss politics, religion, and the monarchy. But many Thais will know that amongst close associates, conversations will eventually veer into one of the mentioned subjects (and people can be very critical) – in between talk of food, celebrities and sports (always a way out when things get too serious). Ofcourse, it should be banned when alchohol is on the table (as, in relation to the “A murderous mix of impunity” topic, it can be fatal)…
I am not sure if this is also a case of Thai exceptionalism in the context of Anglosphere exceptionalism/dominance – a combination which makes the Thai look like they have no capacity for “critical thinking”. Maybe that in itself is already a protection mechanism in relation to #26.
I hope other domestically trained Thais also give their views so we can also get some ‘local’ perspectives on this topic.
Sad but true… you risk your life stepping on some big shot’s nephew’s girlfriend’s friend’s foot in a pub… “Do you know who my friend’s girlfriend’s boyfriend’s uncle is?” (ofcourse I’m exaggerating that part, but it does go something like that)…
Fortunately, often the situation could be charmingly redressed “Sorry krub Big brother, your watch is so beautiful – where did you get it?” – which can easily turn things around “Little brother, come have a drink with me” but it does require that you are not intoxicated too!
(It is a strange place – so easy to strike cordial friendship and fatal enemy)
On the other hand I’ve heard many times through the years what #3 Bangkok Resident stated… Perhaps more serious enforcement of weapons control and intoxication laws?
#27 Nganadeeleg, I was never aware of this fear of a new dynasty and have viewed it as extreme propoganda. I don’t see how this could happen. On the other hand, I agree that the infiltration of the current dynasty is plausible.
For me the main issue is the “rule of law” – and finally the once passive courts, a critical democratic checks-and-balances are finally “doing their job”.
We know they had a critical hand in the situation we are currently in. If they convicted PMThaksin in 2001 for the assets concealment case – where evidences were so obvious (domestic staff holding hundreds of millions in shares!) – I believe thing would have panned out very differently. The highest courts, in effect, created a prime minister who felt invincible and, since then, showed scant respect for the rule of law. Fortunately, we have come full-circle and the courts will have their chance for closure – hopefully for the benefit of broader Thai society in the present and in the long term.
For that reason I gave PMThaksin 75%, maybe even less – 60% and the other 40% Kuson’s “educated gullibles” (or was it mine) including the 8 constitutional court judges who, in 2001, gave PMThaksin a slap on the hand for what PMThaksin admitted himself as an “honest mistake”…
The thing is Reg, you say things we can all agree to – motherhood statements. But when we ask you to apply it evenhandedly to both sides, you refuse. It is not only on PMThaksin that you have been suspiciously quiet. I’ve raised DADD’s important 2007 protest in front of PMPrem’s resident where 200 security officials were injured many times and you have been quiet. We can also go back to other precedents like when PMChuan was violently chased down the stage at a political rally in Chiang Mai. And then rather irrelevant statements such as this:
“For me, a way out of the current crisis is a rejection of authoritarianism, monarchism, contrived elite nationalism (developed under Vajiravudh and sharpened by Vichit under Phibun and monarchised by Kukrit and Sarit) and laws that are unequally applied.”
You need not be reminded, Reg, that PMThaksin/TRT/PPP were/are in power for most of the past seven years. There’s been a very long list of GOVERNMENT ABUSES that led to what we have today. And a rational and reasonable person like youself can very easily track those abuses against the 1997 CONSTITUTION. Once you do that, maybe you’ll see a more direct way of resolving this crisis… As the Thai saying goes, you can’t clap with one hand.
What are universal and what are particular human values? Is the idea of justice for example completely alien to Thais? (yes, because they overcharge farangs?) Is justice any more alien to American people who do not question and protest their government’s interventions in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Chile, Cambodia, Philippines, Indonesia, Costa Rica, Italy……(“72 interventions since WWII” accdg to John Pilger’s count) Are Thais less susceptible than Americans to believe in the idea of “manifest destiny” in regard to the Preah Vihar issue?
If Thais have their own “system of р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕кр╕│р╕Щр╕╢р╕Бр╕Ър╕╕р╕Нр╕Др╕╕р╕У and р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕вр╕нр╕бр╕Хр╕▓р╕б” and “a cultural preference for р╕кр╕▓р╕бр╕▒р╕Др╕Др╕╡”:
Should Thais condemn King Mongkut and Chulalongkorn for trying to impress colonials that Siam was a civilized (western) country?
Should Thais condemn Pridi and his cohorts then for putting an end to absolute monarchy? (they should have been obedient and grateful! Ingrates!)
Should Thais damn the students massacred in Thammasat in 1976 for protesting? (they should not have complained, they are only students! they deserve to be killed!)
How about the Pak Moon Dam protesters? (they should listen and obey the puyai in the government!)
Perhaps the solution to Thailand’s education problems is to stop sending Thai scholars abroad and shut the doors completely to foreign lecturers (especially “farang sex-tourists posing as sch0lars” and “depressed” farangs) who are poisoning the minds of their students with critical thinking? Since Thais are a proud people, let them cross-fertilize themselves intellectually and see what comes out.
How are Thais going to protect themselves from Anglosphere exceptionalism?
I would add that what the original article describes is widespread. However, Western education systems are rapidly devolving into a similar “all must have prizes” mentality, so Thailand is, ironically, catching up by default!
In terms of cultural imperialism, perhaps…but then at the end of the day other Asian countries such as India or Japan or Taiwan (the latter was subject to Asian imperialism, remember!) all have excellent education systems with Asian characteristics. No-one claims that those three states fail to churn out talented thinkers, and yet they remain essentially Asian.
No. Sadly, Thailand’s education system is a result of deep-rooted political/cultural practices, and reform will be next to impossible without wider reforms of the whole socio-economic backdrop.
I am watching my Thai relatives be ever-so-slowly intellectually suffocated at their expensive Bangkok schools and weep…
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1974 U Thant uprising – a first hand account
What a ripping yarn, Hla Oo, though I must admit I’m not quite sure what to make of it. It seems to leave us with more questions than answers regarding this particular episode in the history of modern Burma.
You were one of the students and yet you painted them and their actions thus:
‘brutal assault’, ‘blood bath’, ‘murderous intents’, ‘band of rouge (sic) students’, ‘violent mob’, ‘tortured and confessed spies’, ‘brutal beating and bashing would go on every night’, ‘totally out of control’, ‘informants were killed’, ‘blood thirsty crowd’, ‘brave or naive’, ‘
There was also this ‘ fierce-looking throng of Military Police, civilian police, and many government officials’ , perhaps outnumbered but unarmed and overwhelmed?
The students did manage to occupy the funeral pavilion and snatch the casket but other detailed accounts do not corroborate your version of a violent student mob attacking and killing the officials.
You said you went to an army school and served in the army before you got into university. And how did you get enrolled into an engineering degree course at the prestigious RIT as a former soldier? The usual route through the good offices of the MIS (Military Intelligence Service)?
The use of agent provocateurs to incite violence in order to justify a brutal crackdown by the distressed government is a well known tactic. They have even been known to release violent criminals from prison for this purpose at times of crisis as in 1988.
And how come you got despatched posthaste back home whereas your baby brother was at large in Rangoon and left to his own devices? Favouritism?
You also faithfully reported the official version claiming it was all a plot by U Nu implying that the students were either duped or willing stooges.
The role of Buddhist monks, actively involved in the demonstrations and also bayoneted for their trouble, and of workers preparing for a general strike were conveniently forgotten, so it became a conspiracy of U Nu’s exile rebels and a handful of student leaders as an act of violence and sabotage.
And I wondered why the first part read rather like an article in the New Light of Myanmar.
“Let the electorate judge”
Sidh: I basically agree with you, and on reflection, I could have worded it better.
Saying new dynasty or overtake the old dynasty, was too simplistic.
On the one hand there is the fear of another network morphing, with it’s leaders adopting many of the techniques that made the old one so successful, as well as bringing in some new tricks.
There is also a possibility that the Thaksin phenomenon is just being used as a means to an end and he will have to be put in is place at a later date.
(in some ways it’s a real twist to think of Thaksin himself as just a pawn in a bigger game)
A murderous mix of impunity
Yes, Thailand feels so chummy, compared to coming across armed police chasing a robber in Columbus, OH (I’ve got your wife beat, BTW; one evening I stepped out on my own patio only to encounter a policeman with his gun drawn chasing a gang banger down the gangway, patio, and across my garden).
Violence in Thailand is different, and perhaps you need to be involved with people in a certain way to become aware of it. For women in Thailand, it’s the risk of violence related to sexuality. By this I don’t just mean sexual violence as in rape, but the encompassing sense of the possibility of violence if you don’t behave according to Thai male expectations (here, speaking in terms of the hegemony of male prerogatives and my apologies to my dear male Thai friends who by no means accept the prevailing culture of male sexuality and in fact resist it).
For instance (and I could go on at great length with many, many more examples): One day I was leaning over the balcony at my northern university when a friend casually motioned to a large smudge on the asphalt of the parking lot below us. A woman employee of the university who was divorcing her husband (supposedly because he was lai jai) acceded to his request to talk to him about it one last time. They sat in her VW Bug to talk; and he blew them both up with a hand grenade.
Or, at times when I was back from the field I would hang out at a local cafe run by a local man and his farang wife. Nice, small, intimate, great food after you’ve been in the field for a while. A Thai friend of the owners takes an interest in me. I do my usual thing of avoidance (can’t let the man lose face by turning him down flat!); then he follows me home and finds my phone number and starts calling. I tell my landlady, Pa, to simply say I’m “bon doi.” Which she does, for a time, until she sits me down and says I can’t continue to avoid him because he knows when I’m in town. If I don’t give in and go out with him, then she’s afraid we’ll be bombed. Well, now I can’t say “no” to him, and I can’t avoid him through the polite lie. Pa also points out to me the various stories we’ve read in the Thai news over the years about murdered women, sometimes murdered by men the woman herself did not know (e.g., the bus driver who murdered a woman he had a crush on, although apparently she did not know it). As Pa explained it to me, men’s desire can’t be denied, if it is, it makes them crazy; implied was that women had to give in to prevent this explosion. All I could do was leave town for a while until it blew over.
Think about that. I HAVE to go out with this man (married, violent, arrogant) or put my friends and local ‘family’ in danger. That’s a kind of violence that isn’t in the statistics, but underlays the statistics. Thai women face this to a constant level that I did not, I’m sure.
A murderous mix of impunity
Corrupt Thai cops! That bastards give me nightmares just by remembering them before bed.
I was educated in Bangkok and then I used to live and work in Thailand for many years and as a near-fluent Thai speaker I never had any serious problem there. But one bad experience scared me so much, nowadays I refuse to even visit there. It involved a taxi-meter cab and a couple of real bad cops.
It was the time Donmuang Airport was still operating and when I arrived in Bangkok from Sydney one early morning, instead of waiting for a cab at arrival I went upstairs to grab one of the cabs just dropping his fare at departure, as I always did. That smart-ass practice gave me always quicker and cheaper ride to city. But that day my luck ran out.
The middle-aged cabbie didn’t reset his meter which was still ticking at over 600 bahts from last fare. I told him to restart, but he just ignored me and just driving real fast as the early morning traffic was clear. So I tried to get out as I had only two small cases with me inside the cab. But he wouldn’t stop long enough for me to get out.
Finally we were stopped at a policed intersection, it was Suthisan or one or two before that on Phaholyothin Road I don’t remember now, and I immediately opened the door and stood outside and tried to talk down the fare which was now more than 950 bahts.
I tried to give him a 500 baht note, which was the biggest note then, but he didn’t take it and got out and yelled out to the cops nearby. Two fat cops came running, one with pistol drawn. I tried to explain to them in my broken Thai and English as the driver was complaining that I was doing a runner.
Make the story short, the cops definitely knew the true story, but they forced me at gun point to give the driver two 500 bahts notes, and so I fearfully did. As soon as I handed the driver two notes one fat cop grabbed both notes out of the driver’s hand, gave one note to other cop, put one into his shirt pocket, and both sauntered back to where their motorcycle was and then just rode away. That day I took a bus to city and since then I avoid Bangkok if possible.
A murderous mix of impunity
The root of the problem is well explained here:
http://ratchasima.net/2008/03/30/thailands-best-organized-criminals-are-police/
summarized well in one paragraph taken from that blog as follows:
“Thailand’s police did not become an organized crime gang by accident. The modern force was from the beginning intended both as a criminal and political agency, monopolizing the drug trade and murdering or detaining opponents, including other police. It quickly became unstoppable as, historian Thak Chaloemtiara notes, while people whispered about its crimes “investigation was impossible, for the crimes were committed by the police themselves.”
Yes, and these guys are under the command of Big Boss and his TRT/PPP mafia.
Thomas Bleming in the news
I disagree. I think Mr. Foster is just trying to be a good friend to a man he’s known for a long time. I’ll agree that Bleming is in over his head, but I think Mr. Foster’s intentions are good.
An essay on “the dismal state of Thai education”
I’d like to talk about a subject that Papaya brushed upon in his essay that I think is actually very pertinent to the issue at hand: the emphasis on sciences.
it seems to me that when bureaucrats and politicians as well as many thai concerned parents talk about improving education for our children, what they have in mind is an increased emphasis on the sciences, on churning out more inventors, scientists, doctors and Academic Olympiad medalists. from my own (admittedly limited) experiences browsing through governmental scholarship databases, observing the interests of scholars sent abroad, watching thai TV’s coverage of Academic Olympiad medalists and students’ innovative science projects and, inevitably, glimpsing the hidden disappointment in some adults’ faces once they find out that i am apparently planning to squander my Yale education on a history and international studies degree.
science, it is believed, is this underdeveloped nation’s path towards success, therefore it makes sense that we must concentrate all of our resources (including the brightest students, as seen by the way that Entrance examinations are run) here. Philosophical discourse is a privilege of the affluent.
seen from a more cynical stand point, however, i feel that science became the favoured child and the rallying point of reformers because of its innocuousness. encouraging critical thinking in the sciences does not lead to a questioning of the current status quo, it does not invite students to investigate touchy subjects like the monarchy, the constitution and the sacred tenets of Thainess (the holy trinity of nation, monarch and religion – which is to say, mainstream buddhism) as critical thinking in the humanities would inevitably do.
therefore it seems to me like the only way thai kids are ever going to get the well rounded education that they need is for more acharns – and more adults in general – to begin that most important and most dangerous task of removing the ubiquitous yellow tape from subjects of inquiry. let me put it another way: with so many things untouchable, where can intellectual inquiry start?
but alas, the threat of 15 years in jail (or worse) has kept most walking the narrow middle path of social acceptability with their hands up high in the air in absolute surrender at the expense of our nation’s intelligence.
An essay on “the dismal state of Thai education”
I am always somewhat annoyed when I hear unreflected references to “critical thinking” when what is actually meant is “analytical thinking.”
Then I am the living proof that thai education fail… Mwa ha ha ha…
“Starbucked to death” and other one-liners
Isn’t Ruby Wax the American who created the British hit Absolutely Fabulous? How strange, and yes, maybe a bit snobbish, to hear her commenting on Laos in this way. I’m not sure Starbucks is the death knell for authenticity that people think it is. I remember going to a locally-owned (I think) cafe in Luang Prabang that was pretty clearly modeled on something like Starbucks. Then again maybe I should read the piece Wax was quoted in before I say more!
Time to go home
Further, it seems that Sondhi Lim has been accused (again) of this crime although he hasn’t been arrested like “da torpedo.” Is there something interesting in this?
errr, if the fact that it takes time for police to process a warrant after a crime has been reported can be considered “interesting” then i suppose the answer to your (decidedly not-dumb-at-all, really) question is yes.
Was watching NBT News, and it was reported that after police issued an arrest warrant Sondhi handed himself in this morning, was interrogated and then released on bail. Police made a point to say that his case is being handled in the same way as that of da torpedo.
What is sad, however, was after switching over to PBS channel, they were reporting the violent attack by Thaksin Reds against the peaceful PAD protesters in Udon.
Basically, it was reported that in the afternoon, large group of Reds led by brother of local PPP politican (who is the deputy agriculture minister) ran in holding axes, knives and other sharp weapons and began attacking randomly the PAD protesters. The crowd quickly dispersed in fear but many had been injured. It is estimated (these figures and details not yet substantiated) that at least 20 PADs were injured, of which 8 critically including a woman who was stabbed and it was said that one man may have died (I then went to check the manager website there they reported that 2 died, one man, one woman). The Reds then burnt the PAD’s property that was left behind.
PBS aired a video clip of the incident which someone had filmed and the part I saw was horrible. About 5 – 6 Reds ganging up on one unarmed PAD protester, hitting him with flagpoles, he dropped onto the ground and curled up but the Reds just keep beating and ramming him everywhere with the flagpoles until a police officer came.
Anyways, I used to think the group of nationalistic PADs running out to plant the Thai flagpole on Preah Vihear was quite crazy, but after seeing what these bunch of crazy Reds were doing with flagpoles, well, it’s just beyond any possible comparison.
I will pray and spread the mettha to the PADs who were attacked, and hope the Buddhists here will do the same for them also.
“Let the electorate judge”
Nganadeeleg, I have and have made my views known in the old blogs. A Shinawatra dynasty is only possible with a return to absolute monarchy after years of a very bloody civil war – with the partition of the country as a probably result. No, come to think of it again, it is impossible (especially even army commanders loyal to PMThaksin refused to fire a shot in the 2006 coup)… I also doubt that that is PMThaksin’s aspirations. 5 years premiership, even 20, cannot compare with 200+ years lineage. But he can easily infiltrate, yes, and if he was more patient and contained his greed – strategically spread out his power and money monopolization process over a much longer period, he could have become Thailand’s version of N.Korea’s Great Leader. We all remembered his first year in office – quality cabinet ministers + quality policies. It turned out too good to be true…
An essay on “the dismal state of Thai education”
I am always somewhat annoyed when I hear unreflected references to “critical thinking” when what is actually meant is “analytical thinking.”
An essay on “the dismal state of Thai education”
I think LSS has a point on “critical thinking”. I’ve done a five year architecture undergraduate degree in a Thai public university and have experience this first hand. In most classes, I remember that my colleagues and myself rarely ask questions. This is particularly so when the mode of teaching was ‘transmitting knowledge’. However, when the lecturer was intentionally controversial and challenging in a good humored way, questions can flow (we have our mixes of ‘strict/stern’ and ‘kind/funny’ professors and react accordingly).
On the other hand, outside of the classroom I find that my classmates are on the most part highly critical thinkers and being architects, who rarely sleep, discussion of various topics (some downright creatively stupid)can go on long into the night. I am not sure about other fields of studies, but generally I find that whether Thais reveal their true thoughts depends on the personal relationship. With seniors, teachers, people one don’t feel close to, it is often ‘better remain quiet than suffer the wrath/consequence’ – but with friends, it is rather different.
We’ve often heard from Phuyais (and I am vague on how it exactly goes) that at formal gatherings you don’t discuss politics, religion, and the monarchy. But many Thais will know that amongst close associates, conversations will eventually veer into one of the mentioned subjects (and people can be very critical) – in between talk of food, celebrities and sports (always a way out when things get too serious). Ofcourse, it should be banned when alchohol is on the table (as, in relation to the “A murderous mix of impunity” topic, it can be fatal)…
I am not sure if this is also a case of Thai exceptionalism in the context of Anglosphere exceptionalism/dominance – a combination which makes the Thai look like they have no capacity for “critical thinking”. Maybe that in itself is already a protection mechanism in relation to #26.
I hope other domestically trained Thais also give their views so we can also get some ‘local’ perspectives on this topic.
PAD’s book of the week
Ah Reg! How did your “rant” come about in #11?
I suspect you would certainly clap when the Tri-Rong (Thai National Flag) comes down. Where do you want it – up, down?
Reg, you don’t have to do anything extra : you’re already done, and done in quite bad many can agree!
“Let the electorate judge”
Sidh: I don’t see how this could happen
Have you read Handley’s TKNS ?
A murderous mix of impunity
Sad but true… you risk your life stepping on some big shot’s nephew’s girlfriend’s friend’s foot in a pub… “Do you know who my friend’s girlfriend’s boyfriend’s uncle is?” (ofcourse I’m exaggerating that part, but it does go something like that)…
Fortunately, often the situation could be charmingly redressed “Sorry krub Big brother, your watch is so beautiful – where did you get it?” – which can easily turn things around “Little brother, come have a drink with me” but it does require that you are not intoxicated too!
(It is a strange place – so easy to strike cordial friendship and fatal enemy)
On the other hand I’ve heard many times through the years what #3 Bangkok Resident stated… Perhaps more serious enforcement of weapons control and intoxication laws?
“Let the electorate judge”
#27 Nganadeeleg, I was never aware of this fear of a new dynasty and have viewed it as extreme propoganda. I don’t see how this could happen. On the other hand, I agree that the infiltration of the current dynasty is plausible.
For me the main issue is the “rule of law” – and finally the once passive courts, a critical democratic checks-and-balances are finally “doing their job”.
We know they had a critical hand in the situation we are currently in. If they convicted PMThaksin in 2001 for the assets concealment case – where evidences were so obvious (domestic staff holding hundreds of millions in shares!) – I believe thing would have panned out very differently. The highest courts, in effect, created a prime minister who felt invincible and, since then, showed scant respect for the rule of law. Fortunately, we have come full-circle and the courts will have their chance for closure – hopefully for the benefit of broader Thai society in the present and in the long term.
For that reason I gave PMThaksin 75%, maybe even less – 60% and the other 40% Kuson’s “educated gullibles” (or was it mine) including the 8 constitutional court judges who, in 2001, gave PMThaksin a slap on the hand for what PMThaksin admitted himself as an “honest mistake”…
Time to go home
The thing is Reg, you say things we can all agree to – motherhood statements. But when we ask you to apply it evenhandedly to both sides, you refuse. It is not only on PMThaksin that you have been suspiciously quiet. I’ve raised DADD’s important 2007 protest in front of PMPrem’s resident where 200 security officials were injured many times and you have been quiet. We can also go back to other precedents like when PMChuan was violently chased down the stage at a political rally in Chiang Mai. And then rather irrelevant statements such as this:
“For me, a way out of the current crisis is a rejection of authoritarianism, monarchism, contrived elite nationalism (developed under Vajiravudh and sharpened by Vichit under Phibun and monarchised by Kukrit and Sarit) and laws that are unequally applied.”
You need not be reminded, Reg, that PMThaksin/TRT/PPP were/are in power for most of the past seven years. There’s been a very long list of GOVERNMENT ABUSES that led to what we have today. And a rational and reasonable person like youself can very easily track those abuses against the 1997 CONSTITUTION. Once you do that, maybe you’ll see a more direct way of resolving this crisis… As the Thai saying goes, you can’t clap with one hand.
An essay on “the dismal state of Thai education”
LSS:
What are universal and what are particular human values? Is the idea of justice for example completely alien to Thais? (yes, because they overcharge farangs?) Is justice any more alien to American people who do not question and protest their government’s interventions in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Chile, Cambodia, Philippines, Indonesia, Costa Rica, Italy……(“72 interventions since WWII” accdg to John Pilger’s count) Are Thais less susceptible than Americans to believe in the idea of “manifest destiny” in regard to the Preah Vihar issue?
If Thais have their own “system of р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕кр╕│р╕Щр╕╢р╕Бр╕Ър╕╕р╕Нр╕Др╕╕р╕У and р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕вр╕нр╕бр╕Хр╕▓р╕б” and “a cultural preference for р╕кр╕▓р╕бр╕▒р╕Др╕Др╕╡”:
Should Thais condemn King Mongkut and Chulalongkorn for trying to impress colonials that Siam was a civilized (western) country?
Should Thais condemn Pridi and his cohorts then for putting an end to absolute monarchy? (they should have been obedient and grateful! Ingrates!)
Should Thais damn the students massacred in Thammasat in 1976 for protesting? (they should not have complained, they are only students! they deserve to be killed!)
How about the Pak Moon Dam protesters? (they should listen and obey the puyai in the government!)
Perhaps the solution to Thailand’s education problems is to stop sending Thai scholars abroad and shut the doors completely to foreign lecturers (especially “farang sex-tourists posing as sch0lars” and “depressed” farangs) who are poisoning the minds of their students with critical thinking? Since Thais are a proud people, let them cross-fertilize themselves intellectually and see what comes out.
How are Thais going to protect themselves from Anglosphere exceptionalism?
р╕Бр╕╣р╣Йр╕Кр╕▓р╕Хр╕┤ ! р╕Бр╕╣р╣Йр╕Кр╕▓р╕Хр╕┤ ! р╕Бр╕╣р╣Йр╕Кр╕▓р╕Хр╕┤ !
An essay on “the dismal state of Thai education”
I would add that what the original article describes is widespread. However, Western education systems are rapidly devolving into a similar “all must have prizes” mentality, so Thailand is, ironically, catching up by default!
In terms of cultural imperialism, perhaps…but then at the end of the day other Asian countries such as India or Japan or Taiwan (the latter was subject to Asian imperialism, remember!) all have excellent education systems with Asian characteristics. No-one claims that those three states fail to churn out talented thinkers, and yet they remain essentially Asian.
No. Sadly, Thailand’s education system is a result of deep-rooted political/cultural practices, and reform will be next to impossible without wider reforms of the whole socio-economic backdrop.
I am watching my Thai relatives be ever-so-slowly intellectually suffocated at their expensive Bangkok schools and weep…