Reg, I’m guessing, and quoting Sidh, it is possible if the puppet government is being cornered, for which the Puppet Government would “do anything” from “Going To Jail and Not Collecting 200”. And perhaps the PAD response now is Tit-for-Tat under the context we do not know.
PAD itself is also a collection of “All of the Above” Against Thaksinism — and as everyone saw in the beginning, from various regions and professionals in the society. I do not think it is an organized structure, a governed body that has control of all its members, and thus the kind of violence that can be incited — which I believe is a “Tit for Tat” rather than inherently violent.
What I’ve seen so far (with my rosy glasses? hehehe) but to what I observed the PAD in Bangkok will not be the violent type because it is known, when violence breaks, chaos reigns, the “3rd hand comes in easily” the PAD will be viewed as bad guys and scape goated and its political agenda down the drain. Also, violence will start Tit-For-Tat moves which is by nature destructive. So despite everything, I do not think it is by intent such.
I’ve seen in more examples than I can say, the Pro-Thaksin persons are very violent by nature- asking for a fight and throwing waterbottles, s**t, stones (witnessed near thammasat and up north). It can be inferred possibly that PAD actions were also defensive — though personally I have not seen yet– PAD going at it in a pro-Thaksin mob.
For someone like Chalerm, even though he deserves much worse as you mentioned, personally I think PAD members should use words, but not throw stuff at him. Personally I would have preferred “every living Thai” to say to him politely “Chalerm, I do not approve of you”. If he hears 100 or 1000 of this daily, I think that itself he cannot stay in the country. Giving him physical abuse, I think, will invite Tit-For-Tat.
Conclusion: So all in all, I’m guessing things are getting hotter because the Government, Pro-Government, like the “Last Few Seconds of a Basketball Match”.
Srithanonchai, thank you for telling me you’re not siding, but viewing as an academic.
#You’re right about “people viewing friend/enemy dichotomy”, though I do not view that way but seeing your posts so far (as I can see) I’m asking your position only; I do not label, but enjoy differences if legal, but do not tolerate the immoral.
About your dichotomy, want to relate this to the PAD and ThaksinSupporter view (again IMHO); PAD hates Thaksin, BUT not the people he’s fooled (the Uneducated Gullible)– PAD are generally thinking these Uneducated Gullible in a charitable way, that they are poor and need to be given better chance; They can be violent at the root cause, but not at the Uneducated Gullibles unless provoked Tit-for-Tat. ThaksinSupporter however, if not purchased, generally believes Thaksin will (or have) give them a better life [ingenius Thaksin marketing to the poor], and will violently support this.
What I am saying here is, the common ThaksinSupporter will have this “Friend/Enemy” dichotomy — much more than a PAD will.
# Ref your words: “So, you are not a democrat, I guess, since you want to deny a group of people who you dislike (PPP) to participate in politics?” As I mentioned way above, I am OK with political parties in politics–especially if they’re all geared towards sustainable development of a country and legal;
Conclusion: I simply view PPP is not a political question, but Moral Question (based on past actions) and should simply not even exist as a Political Party! In this case it would be as if I view Robert Mugabe as not supposed to be a Election Candidate based on all the things he’s done. That’s my view, and I’m waiting for the Courts to decide.
A case like this will never have happened in 1st world (US, UK, Australia, etc.) but prone to happen in places where the Uneducated Gullibles are in mass and ready to be used. And thus another conclusion: Democracy Thailand is not mature enough to view PAD as the bad guys.
IMHO, Thaksinism, is a “Dog and Pony Show” to the World that “Its Democratic!”, but actually a Double-Standard Compliance Fascade of a Monopolistic-Autocratic corrupt family regime that survives on support of large bunch of Uneducated Gullibles. Bringing Thailand to the better is educating these “Uneducated Gullibles” to the “Matrix Truth” about whats happening.
# Lastly, do you have the link to the interview? Would be good to read that thx!
#2 The Crown Prince and his family seem to have disappeared from the Royal Household news for some time. His trips to Germany are also not reported about, as far as I know.
There indeed seem to have been a conscious strategy of expanding the protests and sites of confrontation beyond Bangkok. Of course, the anti-PADistas cannot resist the bait. This problem of mutual intolerance already occurred a few times during the PDA protests in 2006. Apparently, little has been learnt since then. A recent comment in Matichon warned of “anarchy” breaking out. Indeed, references to democracy do not only require one’s insistence on rights (real, not imagined), but also a careful consideration of the means of protest activities, including tolerance for activities of the “opposite” side.
There is a Taoist proverb that flows something along the lines of:
When a superior student hears of the Tao, they practice it with diligence.
When the average student hears of the Tao, they sometime keep it, they
sometimes lose it.
When the lowest student hears of the Tao, they ridicule it greatly.
If they did not ridicule then the Tao would not be the Tao.
I compare my quote with yours in so far as, the superiority of the state of Nirvana over the state of possessions. Personally I see there being no superior position because all statements include the word ‘treasure’. That there is a lexical judgment of ‘what is the superior treasure?’ in your quote highlights a value judgment more than the power of death in my opinion. Do you have any comment to make on the relationship between moral judgment from those who practice the will of the Buddha and the deaths of commoners practicing hedonism? The lexical ordering of the superior student judgments in the Taoist quote only enforces the notion of death for all — as all are students, whereas your quote implies one death is valued more over the other through different social classes. What I suppose I am getting at is the notion of relativism.
Do the hedonistic ‘man and woman’, view the deaths of those who ‘treasure’ the grave and Nirvana comparatively superior to their own? What have you found regarding the acceptance of death being only brought about by the lure of Nirvana? Have you found that there many who accept the notion of relativism in relation to these differing values in Khmer society?
[…] week I wrote, somewhat sceptically, about a CNN report that high petrol prices in northern Thailand were encouraging a return to buffalos for ploughing. I […]
Dear Nicholas – thanks for this link, I would indeed appreciate any conversation about the proverb and/or useful comparisons. For those disinclined to click on links, the full translation of the proverb goes like this:
The treasures of man are women, wine, cars, and villas;
The treasures of the gods include incense and candles, but
The treasures of the Buddha are the grave and nirvana.
Being deliberately provocative here. I watched some recent news reports on PAD activities in the south and NE, chasing after Chalerm and then holding demonstrations in a range of pro-PPP/TRT areas. I am sure that PAD says it is simply exercising its democratic rights (despite their complaints that others shouldn’t be permitted to do this; and of course the anti-PADistas claim the same!), but it does seem as though there is a kind of a plan to incite responses from the seemingly pretty docile pro-PPP/TRT (since the early days of the latest PAD demo in Bkk) . Is there a plan I wonder?
The abuses of the Burmese military have no doubt arisen slowly since independence in 1948, in an atmosphere of isolation. The US using Chinese nationalist troops on Burma’s northern border to launch attacks into China after World War II didn’t help matters (See Chomsky interview today in Bangkok Post). http://www.bangkokpost.com/140708_Outlook/14Jul2008_out47.php
Burma’s isolation was not entirely self-imposed. Thailand’s military forces which have worked closely with the west since World War II have much higher standards. Why? A policy of engagement.
Isolation over long periods of time produces reprehensible practices that do not conform to international norms. With no helicopters in military financial aid and no joint operations with the west, reprehensible practices such as the use of porters can slip in.
I believe if you trace the sources in Mary Callahan’s “Making Enemies” and one other paper on Australian-Burma relations, you will see that Burma actually wanted to send officers for education overseas but was not able to do so. This is tragic, since relations between two countries officers corps form a sort of cross-border international loyalties in a sense. Coup Prime Minister General Surayud received part of his military education in the US, for instance. The coup leaders that ousted Marcos back in the 1980s were also US educated. This is engagement as opposed to the isolation offered Burma. Basing some decisions on educational aid and not always placing wars at the top of the agenda helps to engage, the myopic focus on Vietnam during the post-World War II period contributed to Burma’s isolation.
Economic sanctions against Burma apply to every kind of investment. Were Burmese soldiers torturing people at Pepsi plants too? Is that why Pepsi and other American companies had to pull out?
“Jon, enlighten us how Western/US capital is different from Asian/Chinese capital. You’ve certainly invoked the imagery of the Satanic Mills of the Industrial Revolution there when you put yourself in the shoes of those workers, though I’m sure it’s not nearly as bad as in those Victorian mills. ”
I was praising Asian capital, not US capital.
In an article not so long ago, a human rights advocate accused other Asian countries of exploiting Burma as predators, when they did not choose to impose economic sanctions on Burma. I think this is ridiculous. Asian companies doing business in Burma are actually helping. Both sides can benefit from business. However Asian business people doing business in Burma have faced a lot of problems too and frustrated by the generals have given up in despair in many cases. I know of some.
I think the comparison with China is always instructive. China will just not put up with some western criticisms, because it is powerful. Burma with no power, becomes the whipping boy.
How is Asian capital different? Often it offers more appropriate technology. For example, most of the buses and taxis in Yangon were purchased second hand from Korea not so many years ago. Not to mention the home appliances from Thailand are a lot more appropriate, smaller, and cheaper than the US. Asian capital often seems to be on a smaller scale and less intellectual property intensive. Asian capital is also not harried by protesters at every more, for example, Pepsi’s forced withdrawal. I also met Korean Chaebol people who were sent by their company to live in the country and study it to find business opportunies. This is active engagement looking for opportunities for mutually beneficial business projects rather than the usual total lack of interest that the US has expressed.
Thanks Bkk Pundit, all useful. But I still have a question. This plane in the photo, said to have been taken in Germany, shows a different kind of plane, a different livery – it is “Royal Flight” rather than “RTAF” and it has the prince’s logo on the tail fin. Seems like he has his very own toy.
Kuson: “Srithanonchai, it seems you’ve indicated clearly we’re on the ‘other side’ of each other’s political chasm.” > I am on no one’s side since I am an academic, not a political actor. It is precisely one problem of the current situation that some people reduce the whole thing to the friend/enemy dichotomy. So, you are not a democrat, I guess, since you want to deny a group of people who you dislike (PPP) to participate in politics? But, then, “Democracy” has a bad name from your perspective, being dominated in Thailand by what you would call “electrocrats,” and “participation” in the “New Politics” is reserved to the “people sector.” Have you seen the long interview of Sondhi L. in Nation Weekend?
Sidh: “As Srithanonchai is calling for PAD to reveal their financial accounts (suspecting that PAD is also a nominee of someone else?” > Yes, I get the feeling that the protestors are used by other people, in conjunction with the PAD leaders (Sondhi admitted as much in his Interview with Shawn Crispin re the first round in 2006; maybe that’s a factor in SL suppporting “Sakdhina families” having a prominent role in his envisaged “New Politics”). By the way, it is interesting to note that the Samak/Chalerm–Prem/Chamlong conflict seems to be as relevant now as it was in the downfall of Prem in 1988.
Reg: It is necessary to comply with the sufficiency economy doctrine. It is not his plane as such, but for use by the Royal Family. They have a couple of planes.
One remark.
With humiliation you mean the mindless nationalism and petty protests of some Thai politicians and uninformed citizens, and not UNESCO’s decision. Right?
Of course. New Mandala’s writers are too intelligent to fall into that trap.
Tommickx
I could be wrong, but the prince seems to have been away since early/mid June. I heard that he is doing some kind of upgrade training. Captain’s rating? Anyone know more about this?
By the way, is this his personal plane? I know it says “Royal Flight”, but the logo appears to be his. I realise that these royals get lots of stuff, but a plane of his own? Really?
With PMThaksin and PMSamak both cornered, they might resort to extreme means. Constitution amendments to white-wash corruption and wrong-doing is back on PMSamak’s agenda – which can potentially precipitate into violence or even a coup (but for which side?). It is more dramatic times ahead between now and court rulings on PMThaksin’s and PMSamak’s cases – and both will do ANYTHING to avoid jail terms (hopefully it is via joining KamnanPoh and Watana Asavahame in tours of foriegn land and not through bloodshed). On these cases and the future of Thai politics and the PPP, Suranand Vejjajiva, formerly of TRT, has written this interesting commentary:
While I actually hope that PPP evolves into a decent political party that respects and plays by the rules, a huge question there is that without PMThaksin’s popularlity and financial support, would PPP even exist as a political entity?
As Srithanonchai is calling for PAD to reveal their financial accounts (suspecting that PAD is also a nominee of someone else? Or is it Kuson’s observation that they are a mix-bag of groups and individuals sustained by a mutual disdain for PMThaksin/PPP?), this also begs an interesting question to PPP – what is the true extent of PMThaksin’s very obvious (and unconstitutional) financing and running of PPP. Is the very public press’s report and speculations accurate (all these meetings in Hong Kong, Singapore, Beijing, London etc…etc… all those ‘orders’ from above via Jakrapob, Noppodon, Newin, Somsak etc.)?
And who’s to say that a conviction will be the end of PMThaksin. We know what he was capable of from abroad – and he can still pull the strings from inside of a 1st-class jail (if he doesn’t choose to flee). This saga could likely parallel FBI’s fight with the mafia (the same the rule-of-law VS capitalist gangsters storyline)…
Srithanonchai, it seems you’ve indicated clearly we’re on the ‘other side’ of each other’s political chasm (I’m clearly not happy with Thaksin, and perhaps I think you are; Or perhaps you’re not happy with either?). We can agree to disagree, but IMHO, we’re not talking politics anymore when we talk about PPP. We’re talking about Morality here, IMHO they should not exist period. Agreed, there will be no major political party left, only Democrats, but I’m sure that there can be others coming in (esp Andrew Walker’s political map showing North and North East). It doesn’t mean those guys will vote Democrats right away;
Reg, thanks for pointing that out, about the other’s past. Its very important to be informative, and I thank you for that; What it indicates to me is:
1) They can bring down Thaksin, but should not have a political future (i.e. they end when Thaksin goes down) OR
2) They can give it a go at politics. People are watching them closely anyway, and many things are said in the rallies which may or may not be political directions (People have given Thaksin a go already he messed up, so give other people a go).
He comes here to do his local flight-training a couple of times a year for 2 or 3 days. Every time he goes back to digs, police stop all traffic for long periods. The fact that he personally sees nothing wrong with this is indicative that he is either hugely out-of-touch or just flat-out arrogant. It’s probably both.
“Most of the …farmers originally have buffaloes and oxen just for plowing. Only 2 of them have no buffaloes but they hire tractors instead. Some local farmers have to rent buffaloes from Chai-Ta-Lay Company in Tambol Dong Khui which raises cattle for export. The rental rate of a buffalo ranges from 65 – 100 Tangs of Paddy per season.”
-From Boonpoom Senarak’s thesis on land alienation (1976).
Does anyone know the rental rate for a buffalo vs for a tractor?
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Time to go home
Reg, I’m guessing, and quoting Sidh, it is possible if the puppet government is being cornered, for which the Puppet Government would “do anything” from “Going To Jail and Not Collecting 200”. And perhaps the PAD response now is Tit-for-Tat under the context we do not know.
PAD itself is also a collection of “All of the Above” Against Thaksinism — and as everyone saw in the beginning, from various regions and professionals in the society. I do not think it is an organized structure, a governed body that has control of all its members, and thus the kind of violence that can be incited — which I believe is a “Tit for Tat” rather than inherently violent.
What I’ve seen so far (with my rosy glasses? hehehe) but to what I observed the PAD in Bangkok will not be the violent type because it is known, when violence breaks, chaos reigns, the “3rd hand comes in easily” the PAD will be viewed as bad guys and scape goated and its political agenda down the drain. Also, violence will start Tit-For-Tat moves which is by nature destructive. So despite everything, I do not think it is by intent such.
I’ve seen in more examples than I can say, the Pro-Thaksin persons are very violent by nature- asking for a fight and throwing waterbottles, s**t, stones (witnessed near thammasat and up north). It can be inferred possibly that PAD actions were also defensive — though personally I have not seen yet– PAD going at it in a pro-Thaksin mob.
For someone like Chalerm, even though he deserves much worse as you mentioned, personally I think PAD members should use words, but not throw stuff at him. Personally I would have preferred “every living Thai” to say to him politely “Chalerm, I do not approve of you”. If he hears 100 or 1000 of this daily, I think that itself he cannot stay in the country. Giving him physical abuse, I think, will invite Tit-For-Tat.
Conclusion: So all in all, I’m guessing things are getting hotter because the Government, Pro-Government, like the “Last Few Seconds of a Basketball Match”.
Srithanonchai, thank you for telling me you’re not siding, but viewing as an academic.
#You’re right about “people viewing friend/enemy dichotomy”, though I do not view that way but seeing your posts so far (as I can see) I’m asking your position only; I do not label, but enjoy differences if legal, but do not tolerate the immoral.
About your dichotomy, want to relate this to the PAD and ThaksinSupporter view (again IMHO); PAD hates Thaksin, BUT not the people he’s fooled (the Uneducated Gullible)– PAD are generally thinking these Uneducated Gullible in a charitable way, that they are poor and need to be given better chance; They can be violent at the root cause, but not at the Uneducated Gullibles unless provoked Tit-for-Tat. ThaksinSupporter however, if not purchased, generally believes Thaksin will (or have) give them a better life [ingenius Thaksin marketing to the poor], and will violently support this.
What I am saying here is, the common ThaksinSupporter will have this “Friend/Enemy” dichotomy — much more than a PAD will.
# Ref your words: “So, you are not a democrat, I guess, since you want to deny a group of people who you dislike (PPP) to participate in politics?” As I mentioned way above, I am OK with political parties in politics–especially if they’re all geared towards sustainable development of a country and legal;
Conclusion: I simply view PPP is not a political question, but Moral Question (based on past actions) and should simply not even exist as a Political Party! In this case it would be as if I view Robert Mugabe as not supposed to be a Election Candidate based on all the things he’s done. That’s my view, and I’m waiting for the Courts to decide.
A case like this will never have happened in 1st world (US, UK, Australia, etc.) but prone to happen in places where the Uneducated Gullibles are in mass and ready to be used. And thus another conclusion: Democracy Thailand is not mature enough to view PAD as the bad guys.
IMHO, Thaksinism, is a “Dog and Pony Show” to the World that “Its Democratic!”, but actually a Double-Standard Compliance Fascade of a Monopolistic-Autocratic corrupt family regime that survives on support of large bunch of Uneducated Gullibles. Bringing Thailand to the better is educating these “Uneducated Gullibles” to the “Matrix Truth” about whats happening.
# Lastly, do you have the link to the interview? Would be good to read that thx!
Crown Prince scouting European airports
#2 The Crown Prince and his family seem to have disappeared from the Royal Household news for some time. His trips to Germany are also not reported about, as far as I know.
Time to go home
There indeed seem to have been a conscious strategy of expanding the protests and sites of confrontation beyond Bangkok. Of course, the anti-PADistas cannot resist the bait. This problem of mutual intolerance already occurred a few times during the PDA protests in 2006. Apparently, little has been learnt since then. A recent comment in Matichon warned of “anarchy” breaking out. Indeed, references to democracy do not only require one’s insistence on rights (real, not imagined), but also a careful consideration of the means of protest activities, including tolerance for activities of the “opposite” side.
“The treasures of man are women, wine, cars and villas…”
There is a Taoist proverb that flows something along the lines of:
When a superior student hears of the Tao, they practice it with diligence.
When the average student hears of the Tao, they sometime keep it, they
sometimes lose it.
When the lowest student hears of the Tao, they ridicule it greatly.
If they did not ridicule then the Tao would not be the Tao.
I compare my quote with yours in so far as, the superiority of the state of Nirvana over the state of possessions. Personally I see there being no superior position because all statements include the word ‘treasure’. That there is a lexical judgment of ‘what is the superior treasure?’ in your quote highlights a value judgment more than the power of death in my opinion. Do you have any comment to make on the relationship between moral judgment from those who practice the will of the Buddha and the deaths of commoners practicing hedonism? The lexical ordering of the superior student judgments in the Taoist quote only enforces the notion of death for all — as all are students, whereas your quote implies one death is valued more over the other through different social classes. What I suppose I am getting at is the notion of relativism.
Do the hedonistic ‘man and woman’, view the deaths of those who ‘treasure’ the grave and Nirvana comparatively superior to their own? What have you found regarding the acceptance of death being only brought about by the lure of Nirvana? Have you found that there many who accept the notion of relativism in relation to these differing values in Khmer society?
First a cyclone, now floods
[…] Burma’s getting hit by another round of catastrophe – floods in the still-ravaged lowlands. Good thing Than Shwe’s holed up in the North, huh? […]
A buffalo come-back?
[…] week I wrote, somewhat sceptically, about a CNN report that high petrol prices in northern Thailand were encouraging a return to buffalos for ploughing. I […]
“The treasures of man are women, wine, cars and villas…”
Dear Nicholas – thanks for this link, I would indeed appreciate any conversation about the proverb and/or useful comparisons. For those disinclined to click on links, the full translation of the proverb goes like this:
Time to go home
Is PAD deliberately trying to incite violence?
Being deliberately provocative here. I watched some recent news reports on PAD activities in the south and NE, chasing after Chalerm and then holding demonstrations in a range of pro-PPP/TRT areas. I am sure that PAD says it is simply exercising its democratic rights (despite their complaints that others shouldn’t be permitted to do this; and of course the anti-PADistas claim the same!), but it does seem as though there is a kind of a plan to incite responses from the seemingly pretty docile pro-PPP/TRT (since the early days of the latest PAD demo in Bkk) . Is there a plan I wonder?
Ashley South on post-cyclone Burma
The abuses of the Burmese military have no doubt arisen slowly since independence in 1948, in an atmosphere of isolation. The US using Chinese nationalist troops on Burma’s northern border to launch attacks into China after World War II didn’t help matters (See Chomsky interview today in Bangkok Post).
http://www.bangkokpost.com/140708_Outlook/14Jul2008_out47.php
Burma’s isolation was not entirely self-imposed. Thailand’s military forces which have worked closely with the west since World War II have much higher standards. Why? A policy of engagement.
Isolation over long periods of time produces reprehensible practices that do not conform to international norms. With no helicopters in military financial aid and no joint operations with the west, reprehensible practices such as the use of porters can slip in.
I believe if you trace the sources in Mary Callahan’s “Making Enemies” and one other paper on Australian-Burma relations, you will see that Burma actually wanted to send officers for education overseas but was not able to do so. This is tragic, since relations between two countries officers corps form a sort of cross-border international loyalties in a sense. Coup Prime Minister General Surayud received part of his military education in the US, for instance. The coup leaders that ousted Marcos back in the 1980s were also US educated. This is engagement as opposed to the isolation offered Burma. Basing some decisions on educational aid and not always placing wars at the top of the agenda helps to engage, the myopic focus on Vietnam during the post-World War II period contributed to Burma’s isolation.
Economic sanctions against Burma apply to every kind of investment. Were Burmese soldiers torturing people at Pepsi plants too? Is that why Pepsi and other American companies had to pull out?
“Jon, enlighten us how Western/US capital is different from Asian/Chinese capital. You’ve certainly invoked the imagery of the Satanic Mills of the Industrial Revolution there when you put yourself in the shoes of those workers, though I’m sure it’s not nearly as bad as in those Victorian mills. ”
I was praising Asian capital, not US capital.
In an article not so long ago, a human rights advocate accused other Asian countries of exploiting Burma as predators, when they did not choose to impose economic sanctions on Burma. I think this is ridiculous. Asian companies doing business in Burma are actually helping. Both sides can benefit from business. However Asian business people doing business in Burma have faced a lot of problems too and frustrated by the generals have given up in despair in many cases. I know of some.
I think the comparison with China is always instructive. China will just not put up with some western criticisms, because it is powerful. Burma with no power, becomes the whipping boy.
How is Asian capital different? Often it offers more appropriate technology. For example, most of the buses and taxis in Yangon were purchased second hand from Korea not so many years ago. Not to mention the home appliances from Thailand are a lot more appropriate, smaller, and cheaper than the US. Asian capital often seems to be on a smaller scale and less intellectual property intensive. Asian capital is also not harried by protesters at every more, for example, Pepsi’s forced withdrawal. I also met Korean Chaebol people who were sent by their company to live in the country and study it to find business opportunies. This is active engagement looking for opportunities for mutually beneficial business projects rather than the usual total lack of interest that the US has expressed.
National pride restored!
After the humiliation of Preah Vihear this is happy news indeed!
Wait until Cambodia says that the Thais copied the outfit.
Crown Prince scouting European airports
Thanks Bkk Pundit, all useful. But I still have a question. This plane in the photo, said to have been taken in Germany, shows a different kind of plane, a different livery – it is “Royal Flight” rather than “RTAF” and it has the prince’s logo on the tail fin. Seems like he has his very own toy.
Time to go home
Kuson: “Srithanonchai, it seems you’ve indicated clearly we’re on the ‘other side’ of each other’s political chasm.” > I am on no one’s side since I am an academic, not a political actor. It is precisely one problem of the current situation that some people reduce the whole thing to the friend/enemy dichotomy. So, you are not a democrat, I guess, since you want to deny a group of people who you dislike (PPP) to participate in politics? But, then, “Democracy” has a bad name from your perspective, being dominated in Thailand by what you would call “electrocrats,” and “participation” in the “New Politics” is reserved to the “people sector.” Have you seen the long interview of Sondhi L. in Nation Weekend?
Sidh: “As Srithanonchai is calling for PAD to reveal their financial accounts (suspecting that PAD is also a nominee of someone else?” > Yes, I get the feeling that the protestors are used by other people, in conjunction with the PAD leaders (Sondhi admitted as much in his Interview with Shawn Crispin re the first round in 2006; maybe that’s a factor in SL suppporting “Sakdhina families” having a prominent role in his envisaged “New Politics”). By the way, it is interesting to note that the Samak/Chalerm–Prem/Chamlong conflict seems to be as relevant now as it was in the downfall of Prem in 1988.
Crown Prince scouting European airports
Reg: It is necessary to comply with the sufficiency economy doctrine. It is not his plane as such, but for use by the Royal Family. They have a couple of planes.
National pride restored!
Congratulations to Miss Gavintra Photijak.
One remark.
With humiliation you mean the mindless nationalism and petty protests of some Thai politicians and uninformed citizens, and not UNESCO’s decision. Right?
Of course. New Mandala’s writers are too intelligent to fall into that trap.
Tommickx
Crown Prince scouting European airports
I could be wrong, but the prince seems to have been away since early/mid June. I heard that he is doing some kind of upgrade training. Captain’s rating? Anyone know more about this?
By the way, is this his personal plane? I know it says “Royal Flight”, but the logo appears to be his. I realise that these royals get lots of stuff, but a plane of his own? Really?
Time to go home
Kuson: Thanks for your reply. I heartily agree.
Time to go home
With PMThaksin and PMSamak both cornered, they might resort to extreme means. Constitution amendments to white-wash corruption and wrong-doing is back on PMSamak’s agenda – which can potentially precipitate into violence or even a coup (but for which side?). It is more dramatic times ahead between now and court rulings on PMThaksin’s and PMSamak’s cases – and both will do ANYTHING to avoid jail terms (hopefully it is via joining KamnanPoh and Watana Asavahame in tours of foriegn land and not through bloodshed). On these cases and the future of Thai politics and the PPP, Suranand Vejjajiva, formerly of TRT, has written this interesting commentary:
“LET IT BE ‘Make or break’ time for Thai democracy” in:
http://www.bangkokpost.net/110708_News/11Jul2008_news19.php
While I actually hope that PPP evolves into a decent political party that respects and plays by the rules, a huge question there is that without PMThaksin’s popularlity and financial support, would PPP even exist as a political entity?
As Srithanonchai is calling for PAD to reveal their financial accounts (suspecting that PAD is also a nominee of someone else? Or is it Kuson’s observation that they are a mix-bag of groups and individuals sustained by a mutual disdain for PMThaksin/PPP?), this also begs an interesting question to PPP – what is the true extent of PMThaksin’s very obvious (and unconstitutional) financing and running of PPP. Is the very public press’s report and speculations accurate (all these meetings in Hong Kong, Singapore, Beijing, London etc…etc… all those ‘orders’ from above via Jakrapob, Noppodon, Newin, Somsak etc.)?
And who’s to say that a conviction will be the end of PMThaksin. We know what he was capable of from abroad – and he can still pull the strings from inside of a 1st-class jail (if he doesn’t choose to flee). This saga could likely parallel FBI’s fight with the mafia (the same the rule-of-law VS capitalist gangsters storyline)…
Time to go home
Srithanonchai, it seems you’ve indicated clearly we’re on the ‘other side’ of each other’s political chasm (I’m clearly not happy with Thaksin, and perhaps I think you are; Or perhaps you’re not happy with either?). We can agree to disagree, but IMHO, we’re not talking politics anymore when we talk about PPP. We’re talking about Morality here, IMHO they should not exist period. Agreed, there will be no major political party left, only Democrats, but I’m sure that there can be others coming in (esp Andrew Walker’s political map showing North and North East). It doesn’t mean those guys will vote Democrats right away;
Reg, thanks for pointing that out, about the other’s past. Its very important to be informative, and I thank you for that; What it indicates to me is:
1) They can bring down Thaksin, but should not have a political future (i.e. they end when Thaksin goes down) OR
2) They can give it a go at politics. People are watching them closely anyway, and many things are said in the rallies which may or may not be political directions (People have given Thaksin a go already he messed up, so give other people a go).
Crown Prince scouting European airports
He comes here to do his local flight-training a couple of times a year for 2 or 3 days. Every time he goes back to digs, police stop all traffic for long periods. The fact that he personally sees nothing wrong with this is indicative that he is either hugely out-of-touch or just flat-out arrogant. It’s probably both.
A buffalo come-back?
“Most of the …farmers originally have buffaloes and oxen just for plowing. Only 2 of them have no buffaloes but they hire tractors instead. Some local farmers have to rent buffaloes from Chai-Ta-Lay Company in Tambol Dong Khui which raises cattle for export. The rental rate of a buffalo ranges from 65 – 100 Tangs of Paddy per season.”
-From Boonpoom Senarak’s thesis on land alienation (1976).
Does anyone know the rental rate for a buffalo vs for a tractor?