Teth, in NM democracy, we have a choice and it is overwhelmingly for a republic over a constitutional monarchy (by my subjective tally, admittedly). We in NM also made the choice to NOT advocate the rule of law, transparency, or human rights because we have a Lese Majeste (and other royalist) fetish (someone can count the number of blogs and comments to confirm that).
For one, why are we picking on the poor, hapless Democrats with so little discussion of the all-powerful TRT-PPP political machine? I suspect it’s because they are perceived as a royalist party, in contrast to TRT-PPP who occasionally display anti-monarchist sentiments that many in NM can relate to (“they are one of US and not THEM”).
While the Democrats are clearly not angels, at least the have the decency not to be bought into some sort of ‘national government’ and served as opposition for the past eight years (could we have a democracy without an opposition?). In the context of other political parties clamoring to be part of government like hungry ghosts (preta) and Thai politics where being in opposition is equal to perpetual starvation (from the cookie jars), the Democrats have shown a lot of principle and integrity.
We have to remember that it is PMThaksin’s TRT that rendered the parliamentary process and almost all checks and balances against against the ruling party ineffectual. After selling ShinCorp to public outcry, PMThaksin promised to answer questions in parliament and reneged on that and instead chose to dissolve parliament (which I see as a Singaporean-style ‘bankrupt the opposition through elections’. I mentioned then that part of the reason the Democrats boycotted the elections is because they did not have money after almost six years in opposition. It was only before the 2007 elections when some big political contribution flowed their way and even then, they lost the bid against PMThaksin’s money to form government). If all formal mechanisms of checks and balances fail, politics of resistance naturally migrate to the streets.
We also have to remember that PMThaksin’s TRT is the first democratically elected Thai civilian government to sanction police ‘death squads’ against “drug dealers and addicts” and send the full might of the Thai military on poorly armed/unarmed Thai citizens in the South. Why are these cases not investigated and prosecuted? I suspect it is because many high ranking policemen and army officers will also be implicated. This is a very sad state of affairs for the Thai rule of law.
How do we even begin to reverse this? For a start make sure that PMThaksin’s cases, already investigated, gets to court and are transparently tried. When the most powerful person in the country is in the docks, there’s a much better chance that, one day, the others (politicians, bureaucrats, policemen, army officers, business tycoons – of any political color) will have their turn.
The fetish myth of NM Vs Networked monarchist will not push any of this forward (from the point of view of an un-networked monarchist ofcourse).
jonfernquest: The JCA special is available for free download at a number of sites. Google around and you will find it. If you didn’t miss the point, then your words confused me. I do not understand how you can demand historical clarity and accuracy from someone who is essentially characterising a position that is widely held (and still taught in Thailand).
As others have stated – and you can access AHRC site – the Thai courts and judicial system are corrupt.
I would have thought that a fair reading of the Streckfuss article was exactly that LM cases are not transparent or fair. The Veera M. case was clearly a beat-up.
That a law exists does not make it fair or reasonable and free of political and elite interference. So I reject your view that “The underlying purpose of this law, however, is completely legitimate, to maintain the central position of the monarchy in the constitution of Thailand.” This law is illegitimate because of both its intent and its implementation as a highly politicised limit of political freedom. I suspect that we can go no further on this discussion as you are happy with a law that restricts while I reject it.
I’ve had ant eggs, rodents in a stew, and “jaeow” that supposedly contained Cow feces (literally my mom said “cow chit”), but I would NEVER try that in my life. UGH!
“You miss the point on J’s comments about Thai history. He is characterising the royal view of that history – no idea if he believes it himself. ”
I did not “miss the point” at all.
The fact that his inflammatory impromptu remarks have been interpreted in so many ways is clear evidence that he was not being careful in what he was saying, that seems to be a fundamental purpose behind LM laws.
Impromptu speeches during happy hour at the FCCT are not the proper vehicle to carry on this sort of discourse.
“Bad laws and repressive laws are always challenged.”
All laws are challenged. All laws evolve. This one will too. The underlying purpose of this law, however, is completely legitimate, to maintain the central position of the monarchy in the constitution of Thailand. Jakrapob made a big mistake challenging this, effectively adding it to the agenda of all the other conflicts that are currently going on.
“See Thongchai’s piece in the JCA special issue.”
Is this another publication only available to academics with access to special databases? McCargo’s network monarchy piece is missing from Chula’s library. I can guarantee most people who work at newspapers in Thailand, like myself, could not read this article even if they wanted to.
“The selective enforcement of the law – as you yourself have blogged before – does not amount to a positive. This remains a critical problem for Thailand, especially when the courts are corrupt.”
I agree with the selective enforcement part which is pretty clear from the following article which I could get ahold of since I have JSTOR access:
Kings in the Age of Nations: The Paradox of Lese-Majeste as Political Crime in ThailandAuthor(s): David StreckfussSource: Comparative Studies in Society and History, Vol. 37, No. 3, (Jul., 1995), pp. 445-475Published by: Cambridge University Press
I wouldn’t say that the courts were corrupt in the lese majeste case. The painstaking procedures and legal rules are detailed in Streckfuss’s paper.
“Are there any other academics (of one sort or another) who study mainland Southeast Asia and who have ever (or would ever) get interviewed on a TV show like the Colbert Report? Or even interviewed by National Geographic? ”
Matthew McDaniel’s film on the Akha on the Chiang Rai-Eastern Shan States border was edited into a whole hour long National Geographic special.
In general though, as far as the most innovative films on humans as opposed to animals, I would look to independent film makers. Ellen Bruno’s work is unparalleled and you don’t see it on prime time national geographic.
[…] of interpretation and the construction of modern Myanmar” and there are contributions from Michael Aung-Thwin, Robert H. Taylor, U Chit Hlaing, Juliane Schober, Bob Hudson and Terry Lustig, and Maitrii […]
[…] and the construction of modern Myanmar” and there are contributions from Michael Aung-Thwin, Robert H. Taylor, U Chit Hlaing, Juliane Schober, Bob Hudson and Terry Lustig, and Maitrii […]
[…] of interpretation and the construction of modern Myanmar“. It includes contributions from Michael Aung-Thwin, Robert H. Taylor, U Chit Hlaing, Juliane Schober, Bob Hudson and Terry Lustig, and Maitrii […]
[…] are probably already aware of the work of Dr. Alan Rabinowitz. He has been mentioned on this site a few times in the past. But, if the New Mandala daily traffic summary is anything to go by, a lot of […]
You’re right – the trip across the Indo-Burmese frontier you are proposing has been done more than a few times. There are precedents. For example, just off the top of my head, back in 2006 there was even something called the Indo-Burmese Car Rally sponsored by both country’s militaries. They took the more southerly route, in a convoy of 14 or so vehicles, via Moreh. The Indian Defence Minister flagged them off in New Delhi. They eventually made it to Yangon and, along their journey, they sought to honour the many Indian and Burmese war dead who fell during the Second World War.
When you do make it down the Ledo Road I hope you will find the time to put together a short report about it for New Mandala. We await it with anticipation…
Good luck,
Nich
P.S. Any New Mandala readers following this discussion and still wanting more will find this thread over at the Lonely Planet Thorn Tree rewards a visit.
last trip through burma by landrover was last year by a french couple. i am waiting for a reply email from these and the year before the drive around the world team drove through it too.
I now have a good contact in Rangoon who works for the burmese government and who has traveled on some of the ledo road. She is going to try to talk to certian people from the government and try to find out what she can for me.
If we get permission we plan to meet her at Pangsau pass and travel with her down to rangoon where we will have a few days rest.
There is a check point at Pangsau pass near the ledo road, its just not an official one, what we need is a one time permit what would allow us to pass there. Im hoping the Indian commerce minsiter Jairam Ramesh will be able to help us here because he is the one trying as had as he can to re open the ledo road.
We are ging to the forign office to ask to be put in contact with him or one of his officials.
Before you jump to any more conclusions about what might “ruin [y]our trip”, I will take this opportunity to reinforce Mandy’s helpful comments. This time it is, quite properly, for the record and I hope that other potential expeditioners out there also find it useful.
In fact, the sexual abuses that Mandy highlights for your benefit are just the tip of the iceberg. She has politely ignored the other aspects of local history (that she knows so well) that make your proposed route difficult in all sorts of ways. And right now, of all times, there is much to commend an alternative.
To a different expedition that asked for my advice on the “Burma problem” I suggested that attempting to drive from India to Singapore via Nepal, China, Laos, Thailand and Malaysia, may, at the end of the day, be the best (but by no means an easy) option. This would mean never even seeing Ledo, let alone driving the Ledo Road. [Of course, there is no reason to expect that the Chinese would allow such an expedition to hop freely around Tibet right now or at anytime in the next couple of years.] But it may still, from where I sit, end up cheaper, easier, safer, and more likely to succeed than an attempt to get permission to drive through Burma (although, as you know, a few have done it in the past…it doesn’t follow that it will be doable in future). As I said in my e-mail, there is a strong chance that even with a “permit” any expedition could be abruptly turned around at the Indo-Burmese frontier, or anywhere else in this region for that matter. Frankly, nothing would be certain until you made it to Thailand.
To get some more perspective on why this is one of the most problematic sections of road for any round-the-world or trans-Asia expedition the account in Who needs a road? The story of the longest and last motor journey around the world(which I assume you are familiar with) is certainly worth re-reading. For those who haven’t read it, the outline is that they get stranded in Bangladesh in, as I recall, 1965 during a war and end up having to ship their expedition to Singapore. They then drive up through Malaysia to northern Thailand…they never drive in Burma, it is the missing piece of their global puzzle. And any expedition going that way would have to be prepared for some analogous disruption(s).
And as I have just discovered, right now one of the leaders of that team, Harold Stephens, is doing his own Trans-Asia Expedition. This is over 40 years since he first did such a huge road journey. Awesome. But he is not taking his group to Burma and, if you look closely, it is clear that he is doing a huge circle acround the continent and going (almost) everywhere but Burma. His team will ship their vehicles from Chittagong (in eastern Bangladesh) to Singapore…and then drive back to Bangkok. Still epic – absolutely!
So Mandy’s right (again) – I hope you are preparing yourselves well.
For a taste of life along the Ledo Road in the present day I would start with the excellent daily coverage by the Kachin News Group. I would, if I was you, try to read everything they have ever put up on their site – it is the best source of news on the Ledo Road and surrounds. And then I would ask people (such as Mandy) who know these areas well why there are problems with taking adventure to this particular road on the romantic route from London to Singapore.
Thank you for all these fanastic emails as for the military escourt. If we do manage to gain permission to enter Myanmar at Pangsau Pass and are allowed to use the ledo road with out escourt this would be great but if we end up having an escourt i dont think it would be a good idea to upset any member of the escourt by asking about these sexuall assults as it could ruin our trip. We may even risk being shot.
Its not a republic v. constitutional monarchy question. Its a question of do we really have a choice. Hardly has anybody been advocating rule of law, transparency, or human rights in Thailand’s public sphere. They talk about it, but no one actually does it. Sondhi, Saphrang, Surayud, and now, Jaruvan. Not on the scale of Thaksin, but what is the definition of rule of law again?
BTW, Jon, I would not say those are positive steps towards the rule of law. Politically motivated enforcement of law is hardly rule of law. In fact, it sows more discord than upholds justice.
“TRT-election win = license-to-rob-Thailand-Party” VS “Democrat-except-when-you-can’t-win-an-election-and-then-a-coup-is-OK Party”… what a choice!!!
For an election in NM “TRT=Thai Republic Party” trounces “Democrat= Thai Royalist Party”. I suspect it was never the question of ‘democracy’, ‘rule of law’, ‘human rights’, ‘media freedom’, ‘corruption’…etc…etc… Ah, the poor Thais – what chances do they have when the Ivory Tower misplace their priorities and dwell on personal fetish???
I looked back for Abhisit’s steadfastness in the face of the 2006 coup. This was in the Nation, 21 Sept 2006 (TNA, Agencies):
Thailand’s Council for Democratic Reform under Constitutional Monarchy on Thursday announced a ban on political parties meeting and barred the establishment of new parties.
Just under the wire of the ban, Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva slammed the coup. He demanded military leaders call elections in six months – not a year as they said – and accelerate political reforms if they are serious about a swift return to democratic rule. “We cannot and do not support any kind of extra-constitutional change, but it’s done,” said Mr Abhisit on Thursday, just before the ban on political party activities. The country has to move forward and the best way forward is for the coup leaders to quickly return power to the people and carry out reforms they promised,” he said. “They have to prove themselves. I urge them to lift all restrictions as soon as possible,” he said of the coup council.
…
“There is no need to write a brand new constitution,” said Mr Abhisit, whose Democrats are the country’s oldest party. He and academics from Thammasat University said the 1997 “People’s Charter” constitution was basically sound but Thaksin had exploited flaws in its checks and balances. “They could make changes to the 1997 constitution and if that’s the case, there is no reason to take a year,” Mr Abhisit said, adding: “Six months is a good time.”
This is a bit weak isn’t it? Not really a brave attack on the military leaders, is it? Sounds like he supported getting rid of Thaksin by undemocratic means but wanted to get back to a post-TRT period as fast as possible. Makes the “Democrat-except-when-you-can’t-win-an-election-and-then-a-coup-is-OK Party” seem plausible. Maybe there are other quotes where he is less wimpish (please post them if found).
His comments on the constitution make interesting reading now.
seriously, if u havent stayed in singapore, u wouldnt understand how much MM LEE has done for the country. NOBODY FROM THE OUTSIDE WILL UNDERSTAND. the doctorate is to really mark him as someone that has really achieved something. NOT SOMETHING THAT U ( the one sitting down there, complaining, can do. i can assure u) MM LEE has set the foundations in singapore, so well that any of us here are not the type that take to the streets and protest like hooligans. if u wanna protest, u should do it in a way that will not affect the fabric or operation of society. i shall not name countries here, but u all know that if everyone thinks they are right, then there is no need for the government.
ppl say that we are suppressed. IN WHAT WAYS? if u break the law, u go to jail or u pay a fine. its that simple. ppl talk abt religion. ohh u do bad things and u go to hell, u do gd things and u go to heaven. same here. that is why in singapore, thru no oppression, but proper understanding of the law, that singapore can function even with maverick ideas because the latter is placed in forums in newspapers in intellectual medium, not physical ones on the road or hands, arms, legs, fighting for that matter. in singapore, if u use ur fist, u are finished.
u name any company, any organisation, they have a branch in singapore and we GODAM MAKE SURE THEY ARE SAFE. safe to function, safe to make singapore an international place, safe ENOUGH, TO EVEN PROGAGATE THEIR BUSINESS ETC. this is why investments flourish in singapore since the day singapore was created.
why? MM LEE has set the foundations for a country to prosper. the rate that we are growing, is faster than any country around us. LEMME REITERATE, u talk to any singaporean, and u are bounded to have a listening ear and then plans for investment, plans for progress, no triad gangs to threaten u. this is why, we worked. we make sure an investment works. we MAKE GODAM SURE ABOUT THAT.
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Bangkok Post’s brave attack on the patronage system!
Teth, in NM democracy, we have a choice and it is overwhelmingly for a republic over a constitutional monarchy (by my subjective tally, admittedly). We in NM also made the choice to NOT advocate the rule of law, transparency, or human rights because we have a Lese Majeste (and other royalist) fetish (someone can count the number of blogs and comments to confirm that).
For one, why are we picking on the poor, hapless Democrats with so little discussion of the all-powerful TRT-PPP political machine? I suspect it’s because they are perceived as a royalist party, in contrast to TRT-PPP who occasionally display anti-monarchist sentiments that many in NM can relate to (“they are one of US and not THEM”).
While the Democrats are clearly not angels, at least the have the decency not to be bought into some sort of ‘national government’ and served as opposition for the past eight years (could we have a democracy without an opposition?). In the context of other political parties clamoring to be part of government like hungry ghosts (preta) and Thai politics where being in opposition is equal to perpetual starvation (from the cookie jars), the Democrats have shown a lot of principle and integrity.
We have to remember that it is PMThaksin’s TRT that rendered the parliamentary process and almost all checks and balances against against the ruling party ineffectual. After selling ShinCorp to public outcry, PMThaksin promised to answer questions in parliament and reneged on that and instead chose to dissolve parliament (which I see as a Singaporean-style ‘bankrupt the opposition through elections’. I mentioned then that part of the reason the Democrats boycotted the elections is because they did not have money after almost six years in opposition. It was only before the 2007 elections when some big political contribution flowed their way and even then, they lost the bid against PMThaksin’s money to form government). If all formal mechanisms of checks and balances fail, politics of resistance naturally migrate to the streets.
We also have to remember that PMThaksin’s TRT is the first democratically elected Thai civilian government to sanction police ‘death squads’ against “drug dealers and addicts” and send the full might of the Thai military on poorly armed/unarmed Thai citizens in the South. Why are these cases not investigated and prosecuted? I suspect it is because many high ranking policemen and army officers will also be implicated. This is a very sad state of affairs for the Thai rule of law.
How do we even begin to reverse this? For a start make sure that PMThaksin’s cases, already investigated, gets to court and are transparently tried. When the most powerful person in the country is in the docks, there’s a much better chance that, one day, the others (politicians, bureaucrats, policemen, army officers, business tycoons – of any political color) will have their turn.
The fetish myth of NM Vs Networked monarchist will not push any of this forward (from the point of view of an un-networked monarchist ofcourse).
Bangkok Post’s brave attack on the patronage system!
jonfernquest: The JCA special is available for free download at a number of sites. Google around and you will find it. If you didn’t miss the point, then your words confused me. I do not understand how you can demand historical clarity and accuracy from someone who is essentially characterising a position that is widely held (and still taught in Thailand).
As others have stated – and you can access AHRC site – the Thai courts and judicial system are corrupt.
I would have thought that a fair reading of the Streckfuss article was exactly that LM cases are not transparent or fair. The Veera M. case was clearly a beat-up.
That a law exists does not make it fair or reasonable and free of political and elite interference. So I reject your view that “The underlying purpose of this law, however, is completely legitimate, to maintain the central position of the monarchy in the constitution of Thailand.” This law is illegitimate because of both its intent and its implementation as a highly politicised limit of political freedom. I suspect that we can go no further on this discussion as you are happy with a law that restricts while I reject it.
The lèse majesté plot thickens
Due to the danger to Thaivisa this topic is closed as the previous topics of this nature. Admin’s decision and a correct one.
//Closed//
The admin of Thai Visa has no balls the same subject on teakdoor was left open and and a correct by the administration
Beer snacks
I’ve had ant eggs, rodents in a stew, and “jaeow” that supposedly contained Cow feces (literally my mom said “cow chit”), but I would NEVER try that in my life. UGH!
Bangkok Post’s brave attack on the patronage system!
“You miss the point on J’s comments about Thai history. He is characterising the royal view of that history – no idea if he believes it himself. ”
I did not “miss the point” at all.
The fact that his inflammatory impromptu remarks have been interpreted in so many ways is clear evidence that he was not being careful in what he was saying, that seems to be a fundamental purpose behind LM laws.
Impromptu speeches during happy hour at the FCCT are not the proper vehicle to carry on this sort of discourse.
“Bad laws and repressive laws are always challenged.”
All laws are challenged. All laws evolve. This one will too. The underlying purpose of this law, however, is completely legitimate, to maintain the central position of the monarchy in the constitution of Thailand. Jakrapob made a big mistake challenging this, effectively adding it to the agenda of all the other conflicts that are currently going on.
“See Thongchai’s piece in the JCA special issue.”
Is this another publication only available to academics with access to special databases? McCargo’s network monarchy piece is missing from Chula’s library. I can guarantee most people who work at newspapers in Thailand, like myself, could not read this article even if they wanted to.
“The selective enforcement of the law – as you yourself have blogged before – does not amount to a positive. This remains a critical problem for Thailand, especially when the courts are corrupt.”
I agree with the selective enforcement part which is pretty clear from the following article which I could get ahold of since I have JSTOR access:
Kings in the Age of Nations: The Paradox of Lese-Majeste as Political Crime in ThailandAuthor(s): David StreckfussSource: Comparative Studies in Society and History, Vol. 37, No. 3, (Jul., 1995), pp. 445-475Published by: Cambridge University Press
I wouldn’t say that the courts were corrupt in the lese majeste case. The painstaking procedures and legal rules are detailed in Streckfuss’s paper.
Alan Rabinowitz and the Colbert Report, etc
“Are there any other academics (of one sort or another) who study mainland Southeast Asia and who have ever (or would ever) get interviewed on a TV show like the Colbert Report? Or even interviewed by National Geographic? ”
Matthew McDaniel’s film on the Akha on the Chiang Rai-Eastern Shan States border was edited into a whole hour long National Geographic special.
In general though, as far as the most innovative films on humans as opposed to animals, I would look to independent film makers. Ellen Bruno’s work is unparalleled and you don’t see it on prime time national geographic.
Interview with Professor Michael Aung-Thwin
[…] of interpretation and the construction of modern Myanmar” and there are contributions from Michael Aung-Thwin, Robert H. Taylor, U Chit Hlaing, Juliane Schober, Bob Hudson and Terry Lustig, and Maitrii […]
Interview with Professor Robert Taylor
[…] and the construction of modern Myanmar” and there are contributions from Michael Aung-Thwin, Robert H. Taylor, U Chit Hlaing, Juliane Schober, Bob Hudson and Terry Lustig, and Maitrii […]
Interview with Professor Michael Aung-Thwin
[…] of interpretation and the construction of modern Myanmar“. It includes contributions from Michael Aung-Thwin, Robert H. Taylor, U Chit Hlaing, Juliane Schober, Bob Hudson and Terry Lustig, and Maitrii […]
New book from Alan Rabinowitz
[…] are probably already aware of the work of Dr. Alan Rabinowitz. He has been mentioned on this site a few times in the past. But, if the New Mandala daily traffic summary is anything to go by, a lot of […]
The Stilwell Road
Michael,
You’re right – the trip across the Indo-Burmese frontier you are proposing has been done more than a few times. There are precedents. For example, just off the top of my head, back in 2006 there was even something called the Indo-Burmese Car Rally sponsored by both country’s militaries. They took the more southerly route, in a convoy of 14 or so vehicles, via Moreh. The Indian Defence Minister flagged them off in New Delhi. They eventually made it to Yangon and, along their journey, they sought to honour the many Indian and Burmese war dead who fell during the Second World War.
When you do make it down the Ledo Road I hope you will find the time to put together a short report about it for New Mandala. We await it with anticipation…
Good luck,
Nich
P.S. Any New Mandala readers following this discussion and still wanting more will find this thread over at the Lonely Planet Thorn Tree rewards a visit.
The Stilwell Road
last trip through burma by landrover was last year by a french couple. i am waiting for a reply email from these and the year before the drive around the world team drove through it too.
http://www.drivearoundtheworld.com
click burma
The Stilwell Road
I now have a good contact in Rangoon who works for the burmese government and who has traveled on some of the ledo road. She is going to try to talk to certian people from the government and try to find out what she can for me.
If we get permission we plan to meet her at Pangsau pass and travel with her down to rangoon where we will have a few days rest.
There is a check point at Pangsau pass near the ledo road, its just not an official one, what we need is a one time permit what would allow us to pass there. Im hoping the Indian commerce minsiter Jairam Ramesh will be able to help us here because he is the one trying as had as he can to re open the ledo road.
We are ging to the forign office to ask to be put in contact with him or one of his officials.
regards michael geary
The Stilwell Road
Michael,
Before you jump to any more conclusions about what might “ruin [y]our trip”, I will take this opportunity to reinforce Mandy’s helpful comments. This time it is, quite properly, for the record and I hope that other potential expeditioners out there also find it useful.
In fact, the sexual abuses that Mandy highlights for your benefit are just the tip of the iceberg. She has politely ignored the other aspects of local history (that she knows so well) that make your proposed route difficult in all sorts of ways. And right now, of all times, there is much to commend an alternative.
To a different expedition that asked for my advice on the “Burma problem” I suggested that attempting to drive from India to Singapore via Nepal, China, Laos, Thailand and Malaysia, may, at the end of the day, be the best (but by no means an easy) option. This would mean never even seeing Ledo, let alone driving the Ledo Road. [Of course, there is no reason to expect that the Chinese would allow such an expedition to hop freely around Tibet right now or at anytime in the next couple of years.] But it may still, from where I sit, end up cheaper, easier, safer, and more likely to succeed than an attempt to get permission to drive through Burma (although, as you know, a few have done it in the past…it doesn’t follow that it will be doable in future). As I said in my e-mail, there is a strong chance that even with a “permit” any expedition could be abruptly turned around at the Indo-Burmese frontier, or anywhere else in this region for that matter. Frankly, nothing would be certain until you made it to Thailand.
To get some more perspective on why this is one of the most problematic sections of road for any round-the-world or trans-Asia expedition the account in Who needs a road? The story of the longest and last motor journey around the world (which I assume you are familiar with) is certainly worth re-reading. For those who haven’t read it, the outline is that they get stranded in Bangladesh in, as I recall, 1965 during a war and end up having to ship their expedition to Singapore. They then drive up through Malaysia to northern Thailand…they never drive in Burma, it is the missing piece of their global puzzle. And any expedition going that way would have to be prepared for some analogous disruption(s).
And as I have just discovered, right now one of the leaders of that team, Harold Stephens, is doing his own Trans-Asia Expedition. This is over 40 years since he first did such a huge road journey. Awesome. But he is not taking his group to Burma and, if you look closely, it is clear that he is doing a huge circle acround the continent and going (almost) everywhere but Burma. His team will ship their vehicles from Chittagong (in eastern Bangladesh) to Singapore…and then drive back to Bangkok. Still epic – absolutely!
So Mandy’s right (again) – I hope you are preparing yourselves well.
For a taste of life along the Ledo Road in the present day I would start with the excellent daily coverage by the Kachin News Group. I would, if I was you, try to read everything they have ever put up on their site – it is the best source of news on the Ledo Road and surrounds. And then I would ask people (such as Mandy) who know these areas well why there are problems with taking adventure to this particular road on the romantic route from London to Singapore.
Their answers may surprise you.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
The Stilwell Road
Thank you for all these fanastic emails as for the military escourt. If we do manage to gain permission to enter Myanmar at Pangsau Pass and are allowed to use the ledo road with out escourt this would be great but if we end up having an escourt i dont think it would be a good idea to upset any member of the escourt by asking about these sexuall assults as it could ruin our trip. We may even risk being shot.
Bangkok Post’s brave attack on the patronage system!
Huh, Sidh?
Its not a republic v. constitutional monarchy question. Its a question of do we really have a choice. Hardly has anybody been advocating rule of law, transparency, or human rights in Thailand’s public sphere. They talk about it, but no one actually does it. Sondhi, Saphrang, Surayud, and now, Jaruvan. Not on the scale of Thaksin, but what is the definition of rule of law again?
http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/12Jun2008_news09.php
BTW, Jon, I would not say those are positive steps towards the rule of law. Politically motivated enforcement of law is hardly rule of law. In fact, it sows more discord than upholds justice.
Bangkok Post’s brave attack on the patronage system!
“TRT-election win = license-to-rob-Thailand-Party” VS “Democrat-except-when-you-can’t-win-an-election-and-then-a-coup-is-OK Party”… what a choice!!!
For an election in NM “TRT=Thai Republic Party” trounces “Democrat= Thai Royalist Party”. I suspect it was never the question of ‘democracy’, ‘rule of law’, ‘human rights’, ‘media freedom’, ‘corruption’…etc…etc… Ah, the poor Thais – what chances do they have when the Ivory Tower misplace their priorities and dwell on personal fetish???
ANU honours Lee Kuan Yew. Why?
Sean, your comment is gold! gold!!!
1) if u break the law, u go to jail or u pay a fine. its that simple.
2)u name any company, any organisation, they have a branch in singapore and we GODAM MAKE SURE THEY ARE SAFE.
Clearly these should be in fledgling countries constitutions………………… . . . .
—- i’ll say it again, gold!!!!
Bangkok Post’s brave attack on the patronage system!
I looked back for Abhisit’s steadfastness in the face of the 2006 coup. This was in the Nation, 21 Sept 2006 (TNA, Agencies):
Thailand’s Council for Democratic Reform under Constitutional Monarchy on Thursday announced a ban on political parties meeting and barred the establishment of new parties.
Just under the wire of the ban, Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva slammed the coup. He demanded military leaders call elections in six months – not a year as they said – and accelerate political reforms if they are serious about a swift return to democratic rule. “We cannot and do not support any kind of extra-constitutional change, but it’s done,” said Mr Abhisit on Thursday, just before the ban on political party activities. The country has to move forward and the best way forward is for the coup leaders to quickly return power to the people and carry out reforms they promised,” he said. “They have to prove themselves. I urge them to lift all restrictions as soon as possible,” he said of the coup council.
…
“There is no need to write a brand new constitution,” said Mr Abhisit, whose Democrats are the country’s oldest party. He and academics from Thammasat University said the 1997 “People’s Charter” constitution was basically sound but Thaksin had exploited flaws in its checks and balances. “They could make changes to the 1997 constitution and if that’s the case, there is no reason to take a year,” Mr Abhisit said, adding: “Six months is a good time.”
This is a bit weak isn’t it? Not really a brave attack on the military leaders, is it? Sounds like he supported getting rid of Thaksin by undemocratic means but wanted to get back to a post-TRT period as fast as possible. Makes the “Democrat-except-when-you-can’t-win-an-election-and-then-a-coup-is-OK Party” seem plausible. Maybe there are other quotes where he is less wimpish (please post them if found).
His comments on the constitution make interesting reading now.
ANU honours Lee Kuan Yew. Why?
seriously, if u havent stayed in singapore, u wouldnt understand how much MM LEE has done for the country. NOBODY FROM THE OUTSIDE WILL UNDERSTAND. the doctorate is to really mark him as someone that has really achieved something. NOT SOMETHING THAT U ( the one sitting down there, complaining, can do. i can assure u) MM LEE has set the foundations in singapore, so well that any of us here are not the type that take to the streets and protest like hooligans. if u wanna protest, u should do it in a way that will not affect the fabric or operation of society. i shall not name countries here, but u all know that if everyone thinks they are right, then there is no need for the government.
ppl say that we are suppressed. IN WHAT WAYS? if u break the law, u go to jail or u pay a fine. its that simple. ppl talk abt religion. ohh u do bad things and u go to hell, u do gd things and u go to heaven. same here. that is why in singapore, thru no oppression, but proper understanding of the law, that singapore can function even with maverick ideas because the latter is placed in forums in newspapers in intellectual medium, not physical ones on the road or hands, arms, legs, fighting for that matter. in singapore, if u use ur fist, u are finished.
u name any company, any organisation, they have a branch in singapore and we GODAM MAKE SURE THEY ARE SAFE. safe to function, safe to make singapore an international place, safe ENOUGH, TO EVEN PROGAGATE THEIR BUSINESS ETC. this is why investments flourish in singapore since the day singapore was created.
why? MM LEE has set the foundations for a country to prosper. the rate that we are growing, is faster than any country around us. LEMME REITERATE, u talk to any singaporean, and u are bounded to have a listening ear and then plans for investment, plans for progress, no triad gangs to threaten u. this is why, we worked. we make sure an investment works. we MAKE GODAM SURE ABOUT THAT.