The back-office of New Mandala recently underwent a major upgrade and it appears that not everything is back to full functionality.
We are currently trying to troubleshoot the issue with the mail subscription feature. And we hope, of course, that we can offer a fix in the coming days. Thanks for your patience, and for drawing this issue to our attention.
“First Army commander Lt-Gen Prayut Chan-ocha was among those behind the 2006 overthrow of the Thaksin government…
…his wife, Naraporn, an associate professor of English at Chulalongkorn University.
Mrs Naraporn found herself in the hot seat after translating statements PM’s Office Minister Jakrapob Penkair made in English at the Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand (FCCT) last year. Copies of the translation were released to chiefs of military units.
Mr Jakrapob…said the translation contained inaccuracies leading to readers misunderstanding what he actually said at the FCCT….He is expected to finish his own translation of the transcript today and has vowed to compare it closely against any translation which came out earlier.
His translation will be also be distributed to the military as a direct challenge to the version made available to the unit chiefs.
Mrs Naraporn is unfazed by the criticism of her translation. With a string of credentials behind her she holds important positions in education fields, including deputy director of management and planning at Chulalongkorn University’s Language Institute, and deputy chairwoman of the Klai Kangwon long-distance learning via satellite project.
Still, Mrs Naraporn has been the target of malicious rumours circulated on the internet by anti-coup activists, who have questioned her motives in making the translation.
…The source said Lt-Gen Prayut had never been drawn into the political quagmire. Those close to him insist the First Army chief harbours no desire to stage a coup and that he jointly directed the Sept 19 coup under orders from his superiors…”
I knew that they were going to build a little penal colony in the middle of the Chao Phraya river for everyone who comments and commits thought crimes on New Mandala but I had no idea this was the pretext they were going to use. Better erase the whole blog, quick.
As countless farmers have instructed me: ruu maak mai dee.
Seems like Jakrapob just knew too much for his own good, if the quote from Bangkok Pundit below is true.
Should have used the unambiguous social science term “patron-client” relationship or system (See British National Corpus).
And it doesn’t hurt to end everything you say with an expression of love for His Majesty the King, so people aren’t able to slip in their own malicious interpretations of what you say.
From Bangkok Pundit: “He states that it was a translation error from Thai to English. He says the problem arose as the person who translated “patronage system” translated into Thai as р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕гр╕бр╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕╣р╕Ыр╕Цр╕▒р╕бр╕ар╣М. This is actually the word for Royal Patronage – as in “The Siam Society Under Royal Patronage”. The correct translation for patronage system is “р╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕Ър╕нр╕╕р╕Ыр╕Цр╕▒р╕бр╕ар╣М” which has a completely different meaning. Hence, where Jakrapob criticises the patronage system it was translated as him criticising “Royal Patronage”. We will just have to wait and see what happens although the police officer had previously stated there were translation problems without specifying what.”
“Master Gotama, you know that we brahmans give gifts, make offerings, [saying,] ‘May this gift accrue to our dead relatives. May our dead relatives partake of this gift.’ Now, Master Gotama, does that gift accrue to our dead relatives? Do our dead relatives partake of that gift?”
“In possible places, brahman, it accrues to them, but not in impossible places.”
“And which, Master Gotama, are the possible places? Which are the impossible places?”
[Realms of Hells, Devas, Humans, gods, etc, listed as impossible.]
“Then there is the case where a certain person takes life, takes what is not given, engages in sensual misconduct, engages in false speech, engages in divisive speech, engages in abusive speech, engages in idle chatter, is covetous, bears ill will, and has wrong views. With the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in the realms of the hungry shades. He lives there, he remains there, by means of whatever is the food of hungry shades. He lives there, he remains that, by means of whatever his friends or relatives give in dedication to him. This is the possible place for that gift to accrue to one staying there.
“But, Master Gotama, if that dead relative does not reappear in that possible place, who partakes of that gift?”
“Other dead relatives, brahman, who have reappeared in that possible place.”
So that is the canonical basis for the dedication of merit to peta. It is worth noting that the food isn’t simply burned or something; in my experience it is given to monks, then the monks chant while the laypeople pour water into bowls. Thus the good kamma of giving food to monks is dedicated. The food itself isn’t literally “given” somehow such as by burning.
Nat worship is different though. There are various protective chants but there’s no imperative to build spirit houses or anything, as far as I know, in the canon. I don’t think there’s anything against it though. I think the idea is that being concerned for the welfare of all beings is good, so if you think there’s a being somewhere it makes sense to be concerned for it.
What about the “For any seeing PMThaksin as a ‘saviour’ of Thai democracy’…” portion? Is that also part of your imagination Teth?
Today in 2008 (not 1976), which poses a bigger threat to the development of Thai democracy and civil society – this imagined “network monarchy” (and what about un-networked, critical monarchist like myself?) and PMThaksin’s moves to gain his power and money back at all costs to the country?
If he is pretty sure of his innocence, why not let the court cases run its courses? This will set great precedence for the practices of Thai democracy and society – and we, as Thai citizens, are entitled to know the facts behind these cases. Even if he meddles with the process through money and influence (as he would be expected to do), I’m sure both your imagined network monarchy and an un-networked monarchist like myself can live with. Frankly I’d prefer that PMSamak runs the country, address the pressing socio-economic problems, without these unnecessary and unstabilizing influences of the puppet-master.
We don’t need this totally unnecessary end-game. And I’ve said before, IF there’s a ‘network monarchy’ pulling the strings on Thai democracy, they’ve retired long time ago – maybe since the passage of the 1997 constitution (which ‘they’ had a hand in pushing through).
If we go by that storyline, the extreme greed and ambitions of a group of businessmen/politicians bought ‘them’ out of retirement and what did ‘they’ do? Kind, aging grandfathers can’t run a country and they don’t want to. It was quite apparent, really. What did I miss and not see?
Sidh S: “Many in NM who harboured hope for PMThaksin to spearhead a republican movement will now feel betrayed like fans of ManCity.”
You may be missing the point. The contest between Thaksin and the palace has unleashed a most interesting debate and conflict that draws in Thaksin supporters and at least makes some of them think about the palace’s political role. That may not result in republicanism but it does appear to rattle some in the palace (and that is good).
It isn’t evident to me just how effective Buddhism’s supposed “clear internal measure of legitimate practice” is given the amazing plurality of practices and beliefs existing within the tradition. Unlike Catholicism, Buddhism is famous, like Islam, for lacking any clear, definitive authoritative hierarchy. Thus the incredible profusion of sectarian traditions of vinaya practice and theological discourse in India. And when one rolls geographical and ethnic diversity into the mix, the proliferations of Buddhisms becomes so profuse as to leave a number of modern scholars, ala what Jon has said, to wonder if there is any singular “Buddhism” underneath and behind all that diversity. I think in fact you can extend that suspicion of singularity to the supposedly coherent and bounded traditions of Mahayana, Theravada, Vajrayana as well, which also dissolve as singular, coherent, well-bounded entities upon close analysis.
Buddhists throughout history have seriously disagreed with each other over what is virtuous and what is conducive to liberation. While appeal to those categories, in the sense of the style and rhetoric of disagreement, may unite them, substantively and logically they have all too often reached very different substantive conclusions about what counts as virtuous and conducive to enlightenment.
While modernist reformers look to the (Pali) textual canon as the final arbiter, this is only so successful in practice regarding the lived tradition as I have indicated previously. Moreover, what is frequently overlooked is how each reforming project creates a new invented tradition of great antiquity, again as Jon has pointed to. In addition though, I think modern scholars of Thai Buddhism, for instance, fail to recognize how much this new universal vision of Thai Buddhism advanced by the reformers is deeply partial and biased in its royalist and Central Siamese presumptions. While Kamala has highlighted the latter dimension, few have commented on how the Chakri dynasty sought to make their royalist Buddhist literatures, sensibilities and moral compass THE standard by which the Buddhism of a new nation state was understood as a uniquely timeless and universal Buddhism.
“For anyone seeing PMThaksin as a ’saviour’ of Thai democracy against an oppressive network monarchy (a figment of many in NM’s imagination I say), be careful what you hope for…”
Which part is in our imagination? The “oppressive” part or the “network monarchy” part?
If its the “network monarchy” part, something is hampering your ability to see what’s right in front of you. But if its the “oppressive” part, I’d rather not debate your edition of the dictionary again.
Somsak’s quote shows that perhaps the Palace is sensitive to criticism at all.
Anyhow, I think they are playing their cards well, knowing that censorship will not help their cause. Instead, those perpetuating the anti-monarchy stance needs to tone done their rhetoric and disrespect and focus on winning hearts and minds now that those high up have played their cards. At the moment, most Thais will view these material and enter a state of frenzied royalist reactionary emotions. Instead, reasonable, well supported arguments will actually be able to counter the propaganda. Plus, allowing the violent rhetoric of those animal royalists can also be used against them.
So what is going on in Thailand? Why is the monarchy suddenly scared witless? I’m sure that the palace will never forgive Jakkrapob and they want to “get” him and teach others a lesson. However, there seems to be tons of effort just now to protect the monarchy (begging the question about it supposed popularity and the great love every Thai is supposed to have for it). Any one have a insight? What is the current big fear? Why now? Or could it be that this is all just part of the ongoing anti-Thaksin/TRT campaign that began with the PAD-royalist-military alliance and included the coup, but received a mild setback with the December election?
The reason why such a book is published is probably because until recently, no one really xpected Samak to ever become PM. In his whole life he had never come close to this position until he was cosen to lead the PPP. True, he’s a lame duck PM with no real power or respect but history nonetheless will remember him as the 25th Prime Minister of Thailand.
I have provided links to the complete list of the names of the 29 websites at BP.
Also, very interesting update: the IT Minister (Mr.Man Phatthanothai) just reviewed in an interview that ” ‘High Up’ has ordered that ‘High Up’ doesn’t want websites banned”.
The word ‘High Up’ here I translate р╣Ар╕Ър╕╖р╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕кр╕╣р╕З which in Thai context is normally understood to mean “the monarchy” or at least “the Palace” (if not HMK or HMQ themselves).
The MP from Democrat also came up with the list of 29 websites containing the Les Majeste materials. Interestingly Midnight U website is included. I wonder whether people who compiled the list have actually read the website.
Anyway, there are also news that “the above” does not want these website to be blocked, since it will not look very good to the foreigners.
I feel as though, reading through my reply in 8, that I should just say that Roy and HG have had far too much influence on me, and that I wish I could say I was drunk writing that, but I wasnt.
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Scholarly comments on religion and the cyclone
Hi Robert,
The back-office of New Mandala recently underwent a major upgrade and it appears that not everything is back to full functionality.
We are currently trying to troubleshoot the issue with the mail subscription feature. And we hope, of course, that we can offer a fix in the coming days. Thanks for your patience, and for drawing this issue to our attention.
Best wishes,
Nich
The white-handed gibbon and science in Southeast Asia
[…] to my recent post about scientific research in mainland Southeast Asia, I thought it was worth drawing reader […]
Will any of these sites get banned?
In case you missed it. From Bangkok Post, About Politics, 22-05-08:
“First Army commander Lt-Gen Prayut Chan-ocha was among those behind the 2006 overthrow of the Thaksin government…
…his wife, Naraporn, an associate professor of English at Chulalongkorn University.
Mrs Naraporn found herself in the hot seat after translating statements PM’s Office Minister Jakrapob Penkair made in English at the Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand (FCCT) last year. Copies of the translation were released to chiefs of military units.
Mr Jakrapob…said the translation contained inaccuracies leading to readers misunderstanding what he actually said at the FCCT….He is expected to finish his own translation of the transcript today and has vowed to compare it closely against any translation which came out earlier.
His translation will be also be distributed to the military as a direct challenge to the version made available to the unit chiefs.
Mrs Naraporn is unfazed by the criticism of her translation. With a string of credentials behind her she holds important positions in education fields, including deputy director of management and planning at Chulalongkorn University’s Language Institute, and deputy chairwoman of the Klai Kangwon long-distance learning via satellite project.
Still, Mrs Naraporn has been the target of malicious rumours circulated on the internet by anti-coup activists, who have questioned her motives in making the translation.
…The source said Lt-Gen Prayut had never been drawn into the political quagmire. Those close to him insist the First Army chief harbours no desire to stage a coup and that he jointly directed the Sept 19 coup under orders from his superiors…”
Will any of these sites get banned?
I knew that they were going to build a little penal colony in the middle of the Chao Phraya river for everyone who comments and commits thought crimes on New Mandala but I had no idea this was the pretext they were going to use. Better erase the whole blog, quick.
Will any of these sites get banned?
New Mandala has been placed under house arrest. There is only half a bottle of red left. Things are looking grim.
Will any of these sites get banned?
According to NotTheNation, New Mandala is on the list. Does this mean foreign websites will be targeted too?
http://www.notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=515
Scholarly comments on religion and the cyclone
Is there some way to RSS subscribe to comments on this blog post? The mail subscription thing isn’t working for me. Thanks.
Will any of these sites get banned?
As countless farmers have instructed me: ruu maak mai dee.
Seems like Jakrapob just knew too much for his own good, if the quote from Bangkok Pundit below is true.
Should have used the unambiguous social science term “patron-client” relationship or system (See British National Corpus).
And it doesn’t hurt to end everything you say with an expression of love for His Majesty the King, so people aren’t able to slip in their own malicious interpretations of what you say.
From Bangkok Pundit: “He states that it was a translation error from Thai to English. He says the problem arose as the person who translated “patronage system” translated into Thai as р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕гр╕бр╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕╣р╕Ыр╕Цр╕▒р╕бр╕ар╣М. This is actually the word for Royal Patronage – as in “The Siam Society Under Royal Patronage”. The correct translation for patronage system is “р╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕Ър╕нр╕╕р╕Ыр╕Цр╕▒р╕бр╕ар╣М” which has a completely different meaning. Hence, where Jakrapob criticises the patronage system it was translated as him criticising “Royal Patronage”. We will just have to wait and see what happens although the police officer had previously stated there were translation problems without specifying what.”
Scholarly comments on religion and the cyclone
Jon: Check out AN 10.177 Janussonin Sutta – To Janussonin (On Offerings to the Dead) Translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
Excerpt:
So that is the canonical basis for the dedication of merit to peta. It is worth noting that the food isn’t simply burned or something; in my experience it is given to monks, then the monks chant while the laypeople pour water into bowls. Thus the good kamma of giving food to monks is dedicated. The food itself isn’t literally “given” somehow such as by burning.
Nat worship is different though. There are various protective chants but there’s no imperative to build spirit houses or anything, as far as I know, in the canon. I don’t think there’s anything against it though. I think the idea is that being concerned for the welfare of all beings is good, so if you think there’s a being somewhere it makes sense to be concerned for it.
Samak’s talents!
What about the “For any seeing PMThaksin as a ‘saviour’ of Thai democracy’…” portion? Is that also part of your imagination Teth?
Today in 2008 (not 1976), which poses a bigger threat to the development of Thai democracy and civil society – this imagined “network monarchy” (and what about un-networked, critical monarchist like myself?) and PMThaksin’s moves to gain his power and money back at all costs to the country?
If he is pretty sure of his innocence, why not let the court cases run its courses? This will set great precedence for the practices of Thai democracy and society – and we, as Thai citizens, are entitled to know the facts behind these cases. Even if he meddles with the process through money and influence (as he would be expected to do), I’m sure both your imagined network monarchy and an un-networked monarchist like myself can live with. Frankly I’d prefer that PMSamak runs the country, address the pressing socio-economic problems, without these unnecessary and unstabilizing influences of the puppet-master.
We don’t need this totally unnecessary end-game. And I’ve said before, IF there’s a ‘network monarchy’ pulling the strings on Thai democracy, they’ve retired long time ago – maybe since the passage of the 1997 constitution (which ‘they’ had a hand in pushing through).
If we go by that storyline, the extreme greed and ambitions of a group of businessmen/politicians bought ‘them’ out of retirement and what did ‘they’ do? Kind, aging grandfathers can’t run a country and they don’t want to. It was quite apparent, really. What did I miss and not see?
Samak’s talents!
Sidh S: “Many in NM who harboured hope for PMThaksin to spearhead a republican movement will now feel betrayed like fans of ManCity.”
You may be missing the point. The contest between Thaksin and the palace has unleashed a most interesting debate and conflict that draws in Thaksin supporters and at least makes some of them think about the palace’s political role. That may not result in republicanism but it does appear to rattle some in the palace (and that is good).
Not sure that all ManCity fans are disappointed.
Scholarly comments on religion and the cyclone
Stephen,
It isn’t evident to me just how effective Buddhism’s supposed “clear internal measure of legitimate practice” is given the amazing plurality of practices and beliefs existing within the tradition. Unlike Catholicism, Buddhism is famous, like Islam, for lacking any clear, definitive authoritative hierarchy. Thus the incredible profusion of sectarian traditions of vinaya practice and theological discourse in India. And when one rolls geographical and ethnic diversity into the mix, the proliferations of Buddhisms becomes so profuse as to leave a number of modern scholars, ala what Jon has said, to wonder if there is any singular “Buddhism” underneath and behind all that diversity. I think in fact you can extend that suspicion of singularity to the supposedly coherent and bounded traditions of Mahayana, Theravada, Vajrayana as well, which also dissolve as singular, coherent, well-bounded entities upon close analysis.
Buddhists throughout history have seriously disagreed with each other over what is virtuous and what is conducive to liberation. While appeal to those categories, in the sense of the style and rhetoric of disagreement, may unite them, substantively and logically they have all too often reached very different substantive conclusions about what counts as virtuous and conducive to enlightenment.
While modernist reformers look to the (Pali) textual canon as the final arbiter, this is only so successful in practice regarding the lived tradition as I have indicated previously. Moreover, what is frequently overlooked is how each reforming project creates a new invented tradition of great antiquity, again as Jon has pointed to. In addition though, I think modern scholars of Thai Buddhism, for instance, fail to recognize how much this new universal vision of Thai Buddhism advanced by the reformers is deeply partial and biased in its royalist and Central Siamese presumptions. While Kamala has highlighted the latter dimension, few have commented on how the Chakri dynasty sought to make their royalist Buddhist literatures, sensibilities and moral compass THE standard by which the Buddhism of a new nation state was understood as a uniquely timeless and universal Buddhism.
Samak’s talents!
“For anyone seeing PMThaksin as a ’saviour’ of Thai democracy against an oppressive network monarchy (a figment of many in NM’s imagination I say), be careful what you hope for…”
Which part is in our imagination? The “oppressive” part or the “network monarchy” part?
If its the “network monarchy” part, something is hampering your ability to see what’s right in front of you. But if its the “oppressive” part, I’d rather not debate your edition of the dictionary again.
Will any of these sites get banned?
Somsak’s quote shows that perhaps the Palace is sensitive to criticism at all.
Anyhow, I think they are playing their cards well, knowing that censorship will not help their cause. Instead, those perpetuating the anti-monarchy stance needs to tone done their rhetoric and disrespect and focus on winning hearts and minds now that those high up have played their cards. At the moment, most Thais will view these material and enter a state of frenzied royalist reactionary emotions. Instead, reasonable, well supported arguments will actually be able to counter the propaganda. Plus, allowing the violent rhetoric of those animal royalists can also be used against them.
When fighting them, don’t become them.
Will any of these sites get banned?
So what is going on in Thailand? Why is the monarchy suddenly scared witless? I’m sure that the palace will never forgive Jakkrapob and they want to “get” him and teach others a lesson. However, there seems to be tons of effort just now to protect the monarchy (begging the question about it supposed popularity and the great love every Thai is supposed to have for it). Any one have a insight? What is the current big fear? Why now? Or could it be that this is all just part of the ongoing anti-Thaksin/TRT campaign that began with the PAD-royalist-military alliance and included the coup, but received a mild setback with the December election?
Samak’s talents!
The reason why such a book is published is probably because until recently, no one really xpected Samak to ever become PM. In his whole life he had never come close to this position until he was cosen to lead the PPP. True, he’s a lame duck PM with no real power or respect but history nonetheless will remember him as the 25th Prime Minister of Thailand.
Will any of these sites get banned?
I have provided links to the complete list of the names of the 29 websites at BP.
Also, very interesting update: the IT Minister (Mr.Man Phatthanothai) just reviewed in an interview that ” ‘High Up’ has ordered that ‘High Up’ doesn’t want websites banned”.
The word ‘High Up’ here I translate р╣Ар╕Ър╕╖р╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕кр╕╣р╕З which in Thai context is normally understood to mean “the monarchy” or at least “the Palace” (if not HMK or HMQ themselves).
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?id=32062&catid=155&catid=1
р╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕бр╕▒р╣Ир╕Щ р╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╕Хр╣Ир╕нр╕зр╣Ир╕▓ р╕кр╕│р╕лр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕Щр╣Вр╕вр╕Ър╕▓р╕вр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ыр╕┤р╕Фр╕Бр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щр╣Ар╕зр╣Зр╕Ър╣Др╕Лр╕Хр╣Мр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕лр╕бр╕┤р╣Ир╕Щр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕гр╕бр╣Ар╕Фр╕Кр╕▓р╕Щр╕╕р╕ар╕▓р╕Юр╣Гр╕Щр╕Кр╣Ир╕зр╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ьр╣Ир╕▓р╕Щр╕бр╕▓ р╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕бр╕╡р╕Др╕│р╕кр╕▒р╣Ир╕Зр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╣Ар╕Ър╕╖р╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕кр╕╣р╕Зр╕нр╕нр╕Бр╕бр╕▓р╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Ыр╕┤р╕Фр╕Бр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щр╣Ар╕зр╣Зр╕Ър╣Др╕Лр╕Хр╣Мр╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕бр╕╡р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕Ьр╕вр╣Бр╕Юр╕гр╣Ир╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╕бр╕╣р╕ер╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╣Ар╕кр╕гр╕╡ р╣Ар╕Юр╕гр╕▓р╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕зр╕Хр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕Кр╕▓р╕Хр╕┤р╕вр╕▒р╕Зр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Ар╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╣Гр╕Ир╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ыр╕┤р╕Фр╕Бр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щр╣Ар╕зр╣Зр╕Ър╣Др╕Лр╕Хр╣Мр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Чр╕ир╣Др╕Чр╕в р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕нр╕▓р╕Ир╕бр╕нр╕Зр╣Гр╕Щр╣Бр╕Зр╣Ир╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕Фр╕╡р╕Бр╣Зр╣Др╕Ф
Will any of these sites get banned?
The MP from Democrat also came up with the list of 29 websites containing the Les Majeste materials. Interestingly Midnight U website is included. I wonder whether people who compiled the list have actually read the website.
Anyway, there are also news that “the above” does not want these website to be blocked, since it will not look very good to the foreigners.
Samak’s talents!
On a totally unrelated note… at first glance, I thought the guy was doing a Hitler salute…
Time for AusAID to rethink Burma
“Singapore Education Fair, Myanmar 2007”
>>> http://app.singaporeedu.gov.sg/kr/asp/hig/hig0101a.asp?id=1662
“Everything about Singapore education for Myanmar students”
>>> http://www.studying-singapore.com/index.php
I feel as though, reading through my reply in 8, that I should just say that Roy and HG have had far too much influence on me, and that I wish I could say I was drunk writing that, but I wasnt.