[…] of many researchers to gain free access to Burma (although some do, see New┬ Mandala’s interview with Bob Taylor) and the fact that Burma has become practically the invisible country of Southeast Asia in terms of […]
[…] FTA. Against this background, the refusal of delegates to the EuroSEAS conference to adopt a Resolution condemning the atrocities which were taking place in Burma at that very time strikes me as […]
I don’t think it’s a photoshop, as this guy and his stupid mask was highly conspicuous on Thai TV coverage. We have PPP telling us that they are not just a cardboard cutout of the man and then they do this.
Listen! The Junta, Bangkok Pundit and New Mandala may have a problem recognizing Thaksin as a corrupt criminal, but those of us who aren’t paranoid about our own cupboard skeletons, or who aren’t ‘paid-up’ TRT/PPP/DAAD/UDAD members, are still capable of spotting a criminal, a faker, a cad, a bounder, a bully or a rogue when we see one. Same goes for the Junta!
“It confirms my own observation that English teachers, whom one would normally think would be the most open and progressive, are by and large perhaps the single most conservative element in the university. But how do we explain it?”
A stewardess (or steward) serves drinks and peanuts, and smiles.
contains English translations of all references to the predecessor polities of Thailand, Laos , Cambodia and B urma contained in the Ming imperial annals (14th-17th centuries)
Topical? Depends on how much you consider history to be topical.
Might be worth making a posterity copy if a database does not provide insurmountable difficulties in this respect.
Best wishes
Geoff Wade
Asia Research Institute
National University of Singapore
I had been hoping that Dr Wirot would join this discussion. And I am pleased that he has now done so. Reading his public comments in the corrected version of The Nation article, one comes across the statement, “Those with reserved power preach to people all the time about morality and ethics …” If anything, this statement is an even more damning indictment of the Network that the one on “royalist populism” mistakenly attributed to Wirot. Who preaches in this society? Who goes on about “good people”? Juxtapose Wirot’s indictment of the preachers and his comments in The Nation article about the Thai countrysie, and then join me in urging Wirot to join our discussions more often …
I have just seen this post and would like to set the record straight.
The content and qoutation below was, in fact, an editorial error.
” If one is critical of populist policies offered by various parties, Viroj said, one should also be critical of what he called “royalist populism”, wherein people implement initiatives inspired by His Majesty the King such as the socalled “selfsufficiency” economy in a totally uncritical manner. “Royalist populism is also risky like those in Latin America,” Viroj explained.”
I don’t see it in the following URL, so I presume that Khun Pravit Rojanaphruk had realized that and corrected it.
I believe that the comment above should be attributed to Dr.Prapas Pintobtang, who was the real panelist who employed–and probably invented– the term “Royalist Populism.” For those who interested to hear that term, Prapas also mentioned it in the video file posted in Bangkokbiznews.com
In my own view, the movement we see in Thailand has only one common emphasis as those in Latin America, i.e., the anti-globalization element.
Interesting points in the first glance:
1. It includes only Buddhism as a religion (page 3 and other places, such as mentions of who to pay respect to)
2. It leaves no alternative to prostrating one’s self to royalty if there are no chairs present (p. 5)
3. People are probably most likely to go to a concert of Thai classical music (p 24)
4. Use a fork and knife to eat durian (p. 36). Blasphemy, someone call Bob Halliday.
On second thought, perhaps the absurd “stinkless” durian is appropriate for a knife and fork.
Interesting subject, but I’m not sure whether “Behaving bureaucratically” is quite the right title for it. Bureaucracies can be used to implement either radical or conservative agendas. The question is who is ultimately in control of this conservative agenda. It’s not the Culture Ministry, as Chang Noi argues. I wonder why Chang Noi does not mention the real source.
I’ve posted a reply along these lines on Bangkok Pundit’s blog where I first saw the article referred to. I have to thank BP for actually accepting the comment as I understand that his website is in Thailand and that some of the content of the post might be a little sensitive.
For anyone who may be under the wrong impression that an English degree and overseas experience may be enough to liberate Thai students from their royalist indoctrination and bring them into the 20th century (it may take a little more to catch up to the 21st) think again. All three authors of this manners manual either graduated in or teach university level English and have overseas degrees. It confirms my own observation that English teachers, whom one would normally think would be the most open and progressive, are by and large perhaps the single most conservative element in the university. But how do we explain it?
[…] Abhisit Vejjajiva’s party for example should be appropriately renamed (courtesy of Andrew Walker at New Mandala) Democrat-except-when-we-cannot-win-an-election-and-then-a-coup-is-ok Party. […]
The link is very useful – thanks for passing it on. As the preface notes:
“Since decades ago, places all over Thailand, not only Bangkok, have been attracting foreigners from all parts of the world, from ordinary tourists to scholars, business personnel, government officials, royal families, monarchs, prime ministers and presidents. To ensure smooth relationships between and among hosts and visitors, it is deemed necessary to publish this small book on Thai social etiquette for their information and consideration.”
Justin, Professor Taylor: Shouldn’t this have taken place at Kyauktada long ago in the European Club? The bad flaw is that we are arguing over this while young people in Burma/Myanmar are subjected to histories of essentialist bilge. The bad flaw is that on decolonization in 1948, 11 months later the UDHR was adopted yet there was no responsibility directed toward Britain to leave Burma/Myanmar in a suitable state for issues of identity to be non-existent. The bad flaw is that your fellow Oxonian’s and elites in British society, like Viscount Cranbourne, a shareholder in Premier Oil, have the audacity to preach civilized conduct and the virtues of human rights; yet privately have perpetuated, justified the extortion of the socio-economic futures of people in the Burma/Myanmar region whilst maintaining a neo-colonialist image for the Junta to exploit and extend its monist tentacles.
But really the most overt bad flaw (because we can take responsibility for it) is that people with considerable vocabularies spend time justifying foreign policy exceptionalism with conceptions of liberal morality conveniently enough to maintain their own status in cosmopolitanism. The very same cosmopolitanism which can pass off any thesis proposal, concerning peoples who are potentially able to take responsibility of their regions future AND perhaps forgive the incredible arrogance of those fore-father colonizers, as simply one of many ‘interesting’ propositions. The only way is engagement, and after the last 20 years of deliberation such as this, we only have ourselves to blame.
Spend the years of learning squandering
Courage for the years of wandering
Through a world politely turning
From the loutishness of learning
Your comment, with reference to THE STATE IN BURMA, that the “account of the regime instituted by General Ne Win in 1962 is curiously bloodless” is very much on the mark, and the tone of such a concluding chapter would be curious even if the Socialist Period in Burma had not been a socio-economic failure. When the book first appeared, there were stories in academic circles about Prof Taylor’s having be pressured to add that last chapter, allegedly by his publisher and implicitly against his will. Unclear how accurate those stories were, but your point does make one await the new chapter or chapters due to appear in THE STATE IN MYANMAR with some interest.
Might I urge you to contribute to New Mandala more often?
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THAISOC101: Behaving bureaucratically
Already the cover makes me want to vomit!!
PPP unmasked?
Andrew: I have seen video footage of a PPP in Chiang Mai wearing a Thaksin mask (assume the same guy) so I don’t think it is a photoshop job.
Interview with Professor Robert Taylor
[…] of many researchers to gain free access to Burma (although some do, see New┬ Mandala’s interview with Bob Taylor) and the fact that Burma has become practically the invisible country of Southeast Asia in terms of […]
Academic statement on Burma
[…] FTA. Against this background, the refusal of delegates to the EuroSEAS conference to adopt a Resolution condemning the atrocities which were taking place in Burma at that very time strikes me as […]
PPP unmasked?
I don’t think it’s a photoshop, as this guy and his stupid mask was highly conspicuous on Thai TV coverage. We have PPP telling us that they are not just a cardboard cutout of the man and then they do this.
Listen! The Junta, Bangkok Pundit and New Mandala may have a problem recognizing Thaksin as a corrupt criminal, but those of us who aren’t paranoid about our own cupboard skeletons, or who aren’t ‘paid-up’ TRT/PPP/DAAD/UDAD members, are still capable of spotting a criminal, a faker, a cad, a bounder, a bully or a rogue when we see one. Same goes for the Junta!
THAISOC101: Behaving bureaucratically
“It confirms my own observation that English teachers, whom one would normally think would be the most open and progressive, are by and large perhaps the single most conservative element in the university. But how do we explain it?”
A stewardess (or steward) serves drinks and peanuts, and smiles.
Southeast Asian websites for posterity
When it is working, the online database here:
http://www.epress.nus.edu.sg/msl/
contains English translations of all references to the predecessor polities of Thailand, Laos , Cambodia and B urma contained in the Ming imperial annals (14th-17th centuries)
Topical? Depends on how much you consider history to be topical.
Might be worth making a posterity copy if a database does not provide insurmountable difficulties in this respect.
Best wishes
Geoff Wade
Asia Research Institute
National University of Singapore
PPP unmasked?
Andrew, Thairath has a photo on its website too – so it is probably real:
http://www.thairath.co.th/offline.php?section=hotnews&content=68008
With Samak making new enemies every time he opens his mouth, they’ll probably need many more PMThaksin masks.
“Royalist populism”
I had been hoping that Dr Wirot would join this discussion. And I am pleased that he has now done so. Reading his public comments in the corrected version of The Nation article, one comes across the statement, “Those with reserved power preach to people all the time about morality and ethics …” If anything, this statement is an even more damning indictment of the Network that the one on “royalist populism” mistakenly attributed to Wirot. Who preaches in this society? Who goes on about “good people”? Juxtapose Wirot’s indictment of the preachers and his comments in The Nation article about the Thai countrysie, and then join me in urging Wirot to join our discussions more often …
THAISOC101: Behaving bureaucratically
How absurd.
New Mandala goes …….
Please note – normal non-pinko broadcasting has now been resumed!
“Royalist populism”
I have just seen this post and would like to set the record straight.
The content and qoutation below was, in fact, an editorial error.
” If one is critical of populist policies offered by various parties, Viroj said, one should also be critical of what he called “royalist populism”, wherein people implement initiatives inspired by His Majesty the King such as the socalled “selfsufficiency” economy in a totally uncritical manner. “Royalist populism is also risky like those in Latin America,” Viroj explained.”
I don’t see it in the following URL, so I presume that Khun Pravit Rojanaphruk had realized that and corrected it.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/11/05/headlines/headlines_30054887.php
I believe that the comment above should be attributed to Dr.Prapas Pintobtang, who was the real panelist who employed–and probably invented– the term “Royalist Populism.” For those who interested to hear that term, Prapas also mentioned it in the video file posted in Bangkokbiznews.com
In my own view, the movement we see in Thailand has only one common emphasis as those in Latin America, i.e., the anti-globalization element.
THAISOC101: Behaving bureaucratically
Interesting points in the first glance:
1. It includes only Buddhism as a religion (page 3 and other places, such as mentions of who to pay respect to)
2. It leaves no alternative to prostrating one’s self to royalty if there are no chairs present (p. 5)
3. People are probably most likely to go to a concert of Thai classical music (p 24)
4. Use a fork and knife to eat durian (p. 36). Blasphemy, someone call Bob Halliday.
On second thought, perhaps the absurd “stinkless” durian is appropriate for a knife and fork.
THAISOC101: Behaving bureaucratically
Interesting subject, but I’m not sure whether “Behaving bureaucratically” is quite the right title for it. Bureaucracies can be used to implement either radical or conservative agendas. The question is who is ultimately in control of this conservative agenda. It’s not the Culture Ministry, as Chang Noi argues. I wonder why Chang Noi does not mention the real source.
I’ve posted a reply along these lines on Bangkok Pundit’s blog where I first saw the article referred to. I have to thank BP for actually accepting the comment as I understand that his website is in Thailand and that some of the content of the post might be a little sensitive.
For any NM bloggers who may be interested here is the link: http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2007/11/ministry-of-culture-watch.html#comment-c394422508784233946
Just one other point.
For anyone who may be under the wrong impression that an English degree and overseas experience may be enough to liberate Thai students from their royalist indoctrination and bring them into the 20th century (it may take a little more to catch up to the 21st) think again. All three authors of this manners manual either graduated in or teach university level English and have overseas degrees. It confirms my own observation that English teachers, whom one would normally think would be the most open and progressive, are by and large perhaps the single most conservative element in the university. But how do we explain it?
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
[…] Abhisit Vejjajiva’s party for example should be appropriately renamed (courtesy of Andrew Walker at New Mandala) Democrat-except-when-we-cannot-win-an-election-and-then-a-coup-is-ok Party. […]
THAISOC101: Behaving bureaucratically
Thanks Bob,
The link is very useful – thanks for passing it on. As the preface notes:
“Since decades ago, places all over Thailand, not only Bangkok, have been attracting foreigners from all parts of the world, from ordinary tourists to scholars, business personnel, government officials, royal families, monarchs, prime ministers and presidents. To ensure smooth relationships between and among hosts and visitors, it is deemed necessary to publish this small book on Thai social etiquette for their information and consideration.”
For lots of reasons, it is worth a read in full.
Best wishes to all,
Nicholas
THAISOC101: Behaving bureaucratically
Here is the document in question …
http://www.m-culture.go.th/culture01/culture01-uploads/libs/document/b0773f58d1.pdf
Justin Wintle’s response to Robert Taylor
Justin, Professor Taylor: Shouldn’t this have taken place at Kyauktada long ago in the European Club? The bad flaw is that we are arguing over this while young people in Burma/Myanmar are subjected to histories of essentialist bilge. The bad flaw is that on decolonization in 1948, 11 months later the UDHR was adopted yet there was no responsibility directed toward Britain to leave Burma/Myanmar in a suitable state for issues of identity to be non-existent. The bad flaw is that your fellow Oxonian’s and elites in British society, like Viscount Cranbourne, a shareholder in Premier Oil, have the audacity to preach civilized conduct and the virtues of human rights; yet privately have perpetuated, justified the extortion of the socio-economic futures of people in the Burma/Myanmar region whilst maintaining a neo-colonialist image for the Junta to exploit and extend its monist tentacles.
But really the most overt bad flaw (because we can take responsibility for it) is that people with considerable vocabularies spend time justifying foreign policy exceptionalism with conceptions of liberal morality conveniently enough to maintain their own status in cosmopolitanism. The very same cosmopolitanism which can pass off any thesis proposal, concerning peoples who are potentially able to take responsibility of their regions future AND perhaps forgive the incredible arrogance of those fore-father colonizers, as simply one of many ‘interesting’ propositions. The only way is engagement, and after the last 20 years of deliberation such as this, we only have ourselves to blame.
Spend the years of learning squandering
Courage for the years of wandering
Through a world politely turning
From the loutishness of learning
Justin Wintle’s response to Robert Taylor
Thanks for this, Mr Wintle.
Your comment, with reference to THE STATE IN BURMA, that the “account of the regime instituted by General Ne Win in 1962 is curiously bloodless” is very much on the mark, and the tone of such a concluding chapter would be curious even if the Socialist Period in Burma had not been a socio-economic failure. When the book first appeared, there were stories in academic circles about Prof Taylor’s having be pressured to add that last chapter, allegedly by his publisher and implicitly against his will. Unclear how accurate those stories were, but your point does make one await the new chapter or chapters due to appear in THE STATE IN MYANMAR with some interest.
Might I urge you to contribute to New Mandala more often?
Interview with Professor Robert Taylor
[…] write with regard to New Mandala’s interview with Professor Robert┬ [H.] Taylor, dated November 7th and posted on the […]