Colonel, i do not understand how you can criticize ex-Ajarn for his/her claim because you don’t know what corruption they are referring too. Maybe ex-Ajarn is referring to ordinary citizen’s corruption?
What if really the root of Thailand’s ‘corruption’ comes from a lack of international trading pressure that fosters little domestic accountability? Will Thaksin be the only devil then?
We should not squander these soft power resources by letting our obsession with economic growth and energy security and our security establishment’s inclination to put counter-insurgency ahead of conflict resolution stand in the way of a more imaginative Myanmar policy.
Can Ex-Ajarn back-up his claim: “Anyone who lives in Thailand and is involved in the local economy knows corruption has increased under the rule of the military dictators.” ?
I can’t even imagine Ex-Ajarn what or how or where Ex-Ajarn can begin his ‘corruption comparisons’ between current military dictators and Thaksin’s rampantly corrupt regime.
I live in Thailand and my impression is the junta had ‘less’ opportunity to get corrupt because they are constrained from pursuing any big projects. But I could be wrong of course, so maybe Ex-Ajarn (the professor) can give us an education on this very subject.
All you pro-Thaksin and pro-TRT people worry too much just because Surayud’s government would want to ensure that old-style mega vote-buying (popularized by Thaksin and TRT) do not reassert itself in Surayud’s supervised elections.
A bought ballot box is not superior to a military dictatorship.
A very corrupt elected Prime Minister is as worthless as a military dictator . . . and both are equally dangerous.
Forced resignations from the government due to “ethics” investigations spearheaded by Squadron Commander Yang-mi-fai to force election delays is the issue and the news:
Isn’t is also rather nonsensical that Surayudh as PM controls Sonthi as the deputy PM, but that Sonthi controls Surayudh in his capacity of being responsible for overseeing the ministry of the interior, whose boss is none else than Surayudh? Perhaps, it was just politically impossible to directly appoint Sonthi to the position of minister of the interior. So, the construction of him being the shadow MoI, who calls the shots, might look better to some.
Free and fair elections run by a military dictatorship; a dictatorship that has a special interest in not allowing one of the political parties to win?
Coup = increased democracy?
As time goes by, all those “academic” pro-dictatorship individuals that previously posted frequently on this topic are becoming pretty quiet.
It is evident that the coup has been a complete failure. But if one has studied the history of rule by military dictatorships around the world it was easy to predict the outcome. Hopefully this will be the last and final attempt to revise this type of failed government system here in Thailand. But, if the previous history of brutality and incompetence of military dictatorships were ignored by so many educated individuals who have supported the dictatorship from the start, it is unlikely that this addition “proof” will be sufficient to once and for all end the concept that rule by the gun is superior to rule by the ballot box.
This is old news; everyone knows that current dictatorship is corrupt; but it is interesting that opponents to the dictators feel confident enough to expose the corruption.
The current regime of dictators has never opposed any corruption except that of the regime’s political enemies. Anyone who lives in Thailand and is involved in the local economy knows corruption has increased under the rule of the military dictators.
So one of the head dictators is corrupt, anyone surprised?
[…] democracy election campaign rolls on. Having spent years slamming Thaksin’s populism the Democrats-except-when-you-can’t-win-an-election-and-then-a-coup-is-OK┬ ┬ are out trying to woo the voters of the northeast with a swag of electoral goodies (including a […]
Nobody needs to promote it in our village cause that’s we eat.
Along with gaeng naw mai (bamboo shoot curry) all of which are acquired tastes I suppose, but delicious after you learn to love them.
Nam prik taa daeng, nam pik nam pu, nam pik nam pak, nam pik maeng ta, nam pik plaa, nam pik tua naw, nam pik ong.
In markets nam pik is arrayed like an ice cream store, yum, yum, you’re making me hungry. In Bangkok, at least downtown, nam pik does not seem too easy to get, certainly not at Emporium or Paragon.
Thanks Johpa for this wonderful, long, and insightful posting.
It was a joy to read.
And has provided us with much interesting and new reading material.
That was a pig headed, unnecessarily antagonistic (and poorly worded) reply from me. While this may not be very redeeming, I feel as though I must further explore some options of action.
It seems to me that most are calling for action to be taken through moral obligation to our fellow man, or at least some notion of positive liberty. However, how can this be achieved without first accepting that not everywhere values the notion of liberalism? Where universal values are not necessarily all on the same page. Especially considering the political histories of colonialism and the propaganda machine of the Junta which abuses this history and won’t let its’ citizens move on.
Of course, and perhaps imperialistically, as a liberal I believe that all are liberal by default and whether the individual knows it or not is a matter of social conditioning. The social conditioning in Burma is not such that a moral obligation through positive liberty can be used to justify UNSC action because it would infringe on Burmese citizens negative liberty; an essential element to freedom. (If you have read this far and haven’t the faintest as to what I’m talking about with positive and negative liberty please see : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_and_negative_rights and http://berlin.wolf.ox.ac.uk/)
One could argue that Burmese citizens political liberty was totally abolished in 1988 and therefore international action in the name of positive liberty is justified because Burma had determined itself through democratic elections and would consequently not infringe upon the negative rights of Burmese individuals as they had collectively determined their path democratically. However, this position does not account for the last 19 years and the conditioning and beliefs of those under the Junta’s framework. What do we liberals say? “Oh sorry, it’s been a long time since 1988 we know, but brothers and sisters – we’ve come to liberate you all the same. Hope the Junta wasn’t so bad, want a scone?! (…in the form of IMF loans)” ? We ‘liberals’ have condemned those in Burma for almost 20 years to live under the Junta when we had a legitimate liberal pretext for regime restoration in 88. Now, with this procrastination and often seemingly oblivious diatribe from us – we want to do it now because there were some demonstrations?! This is almost 20 years of blood stained history for 1 week of demonstrations to remind us that some peoples liberty is being abused. Considering we view liberty as bestowed upon us naturally, this completely highlights a polemic between those in detention for what they believe and us where positive liberty is being used as a mask worn by those with guilty hearts. That is not the right way to sell an idea.
So rather than be disenfranchised by all of this political and inhuman hypocrisy, to be of some use we must remember what is really “Most Wanted”, and for me, that must be to engage with the Junta on their terms. If we forget the political arguments and remember the peoples who have nothing to do with this, it is their futures in an increasingly connected world that is being neglected by those already connected. This requires immediate action and we can do it now. Reasoning that it would look bad for us to engage will make future global integration for Burma that much more difficult the longer our leaders leave it. There is a distinction between self-determination and corruption which is totally blurred by nations acting bilaterally – why is the UN given authority on this one issue to suddenly make it clear?
The Junta must be overrun with ideas, irrespective of whether or not they listen initially. Wouldn’t the quickest solution be that we should pander to their desires till they no longer care? Maybe this is not moral, but we ‘liberals’ should not start pretending to be on an international scale for the sake of negative liberty infringing on exceptionalised moral obligations. According to Amnesty International, there are 54 countries where there are politically related detainments and tortures. Where are their protests in Sydney, Canberra, New York and so on??
“Voters were weary of the old type of politics plagued by conflict and wanted politicians to seriously care about the people’s problems, he said.”
Who is the “he”, and when was this statement made? By Thaksin Shinawatra before the 2001 or the 2005 elections? No, by Abhisit Vejjajiva, in his attempt to get more than the 2 MPs in the Northeast that the Democrats managed in 2005 (Bangkok Post, Oct. 14, p. 1).
If the king do not like Thaksin, he can ask him to resign. But he did not. He waited for the military coup and he straightaway supported the coup. Why? Becos the coup always refer the king and has full respect for him. Will the furture PM and his cabinet in the next election be less corrupted? The new constitution limit the power of the PM. But will it prevent the next govt the abuse of power and corruption? I do think so. In the end, who benefits? The king and his family. Who suffers? The people.
Sure! Do you want to go to the hardware store so you can buy some wood, nails and a hammer? With these materials I can help you build a magical box of distance-from-living-in-violence-where-practical-situations-don’t-concern-you to put yourself in like me! …. er, you’re taking yourself somewhere serf, if you don’t find what I write useful that is not really anything to do with me. I find what I write here useful because posting allows me to critique my own attitude toward whatever it is I have written. Maybe this way I can evolve into a champion of Human Rights like a Knights Templar of days gone by!
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Thailand’s (second?) highest profile forest encroacher?
Colonel, i do not understand how you can criticize ex-Ajarn for his/her claim because you don’t know what corruption they are referring too. Maybe ex-Ajarn is referring to ordinary citizen’s corruption?
What if really the root of Thailand’s ‘corruption’ comes from a lack of international trading pressure that fosters little domestic accountability? Will Thaksin be the only devil then?
The Indian trump card?
We should not squander these soft power resources by letting our obsession with economic growth and energy security and our security establishment’s inclination to put counter-insurgency ahead of conflict resolution stand in the way of a more imaginative Myanmar policy.
Exactly!
Thailand’s (second?) highest profile forest encroacher?
Can Ex-Ajarn back-up his claim: “Anyone who lives in Thailand and is involved in the local economy knows corruption has increased under the rule of the military dictators.” ?
I can’t even imagine Ex-Ajarn what or how or where Ex-Ajarn can begin his ‘corruption comparisons’ between current military dictators and Thaksin’s rampantly corrupt regime.
I live in Thailand and my impression is the junta had ‘less’ opportunity to get corrupt because they are constrained from pursuing any big projects. But I could be wrong of course, so maybe Ex-Ajarn (the professor) can give us an education on this very subject.
Border nonsence
All you pro-Thaksin and pro-TRT people worry too much just because Surayud’s government would want to ensure that old-style mega vote-buying (popularized by Thaksin and TRT) do not reassert itself in Surayud’s supervised elections.
A bought ballot box is not superior to a military dictatorship.
A very corrupt elected Prime Minister is as worthless as a military dictator . . . and both are equally dangerous.
Thailand’s (second?) highest profile forest encroacher?
Forest encroachment is not the news here.
Forced resignations from the government due to “ethics” investigations spearheaded by Squadron Commander Yang-mi-fai to force election delays is the issue and the news:
See Bangkok Post editorial, Oct 15:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/121007_News/12Oct2007_news18.php
Earlier commentary:
http://www.readbangkokpost.com/business/shin_sale_and_coup/pad_falling_into_disarray_elec.php#article
Border nonsence
Isn’t is also rather nonsensical that Surayudh as PM controls Sonthi as the deputy PM, but that Sonthi controls Surayudh in his capacity of being responsible for overseeing the ministry of the interior, whose boss is none else than Surayudh? Perhaps, it was just politically impossible to directly appoint Sonthi to the position of minister of the interior. So, the construction of him being the shadow MoI, who calls the shots, might look better to some.
Border nonsence
Free and fair elections run by a military dictatorship; a dictatorship that has a special interest in not allowing one of the political parties to win?
Coup = increased democracy?
As time goes by, all those “academic” pro-dictatorship individuals that previously posted frequently on this topic are becoming pretty quiet.
It is evident that the coup has been a complete failure. But if one has studied the history of rule by military dictatorships around the world it was easy to predict the outcome. Hopefully this will be the last and final attempt to revise this type of failed government system here in Thailand. But, if the previous history of brutality and incompetence of military dictatorships were ignored by so many educated individuals who have supported the dictatorship from the start, it is unlikely that this addition “proof” will be sufficient to once and for all end the concept that rule by the gun is superior to rule by the ballot box.
Thailand’s (second?) highest profile forest encroacher?
This is old news; everyone knows that current dictatorship is corrupt; but it is interesting that opponents to the dictators feel confident enough to expose the corruption.
The current regime of dictators has never opposed any corruption except that of the regime’s political enemies. Anyone who lives in Thailand and is involved in the local economy knows corruption has increased under the rule of the military dictators.
So one of the head dictators is corrupt, anyone surprised?
Elections under Thaksin
[…] democracy election campaign rolls on. Having spent years slamming Thaksin’s populism the Democrats-except-when-you-can’t-win-an-election-and-then-a-coup-is-OK┬ ┬ are out trying to woo the voters of the northeast with a swag of electoral goodies (including a […]
Nam Prik: Super food?
Nam prik, sticky rice, and a little pork. Yum.
Nobody needs to promote it in our village cause that’s we eat.
Along with gaeng naw mai (bamboo shoot curry) all of which are acquired tastes I suppose, but delicious after you learn to love them.
Nam prik taa daeng, nam pik nam pu, nam pik nam pak, nam pik maeng ta, nam pik plaa, nam pik tua naw, nam pik ong.
In markets nam pik is arrayed like an ice cream store, yum, yum, you’re making me hungry. In Bangkok, at least downtown, nam pik does not seem too easy to get, certainly not at Emporium or Paragon.
Report on conference honoring Charles Keyes
Thanks Johpa for this wonderful, long, and insightful posting.
It was a joy to read.
And has provided us with much interesting and new reading material.
Locked up in Burma
I’ll clue you! You continue to be unnecessarily antagonistic.
Locked up in Burma
That was a pig headed, unnecessarily antagonistic (and poorly worded) reply from me. While this may not be very redeeming, I feel as though I must further explore some options of action.
It seems to me that most are calling for action to be taken through moral obligation to our fellow man, or at least some notion of positive liberty. However, how can this be achieved without first accepting that not everywhere values the notion of liberalism? Where universal values are not necessarily all on the same page. Especially considering the political histories of colonialism and the propaganda machine of the Junta which abuses this history and won’t let its’ citizens move on.
Of course, and perhaps imperialistically, as a liberal I believe that all are liberal by default and whether the individual knows it or not is a matter of social conditioning. The social conditioning in Burma is not such that a moral obligation through positive liberty can be used to justify UNSC action because it would infringe on Burmese citizens negative liberty; an essential element to freedom. (If you have read this far and haven’t the faintest as to what I’m talking about with positive and negative liberty please see : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_and_negative_rights and http://berlin.wolf.ox.ac.uk/)
One could argue that Burmese citizens political liberty was totally abolished in 1988 and therefore international action in the name of positive liberty is justified because Burma had determined itself through democratic elections and would consequently not infringe upon the negative rights of Burmese individuals as they had collectively determined their path democratically. However, this position does not account for the last 19 years and the conditioning and beliefs of those under the Junta’s framework. What do we liberals say? “Oh sorry, it’s been a long time since 1988 we know, but brothers and sisters – we’ve come to liberate you all the same. Hope the Junta wasn’t so bad, want a scone?! (…in the form of IMF loans)” ? We ‘liberals’ have condemned those in Burma for almost 20 years to live under the Junta when we had a legitimate liberal pretext for regime restoration in 88. Now, with this procrastination and often seemingly oblivious diatribe from us – we want to do it now because there were some demonstrations?! This is almost 20 years of blood stained history for 1 week of demonstrations to remind us that some peoples liberty is being abused. Considering we view liberty as bestowed upon us naturally, this completely highlights a polemic between those in detention for what they believe and us where positive liberty is being used as a mask worn by those with guilty hearts. That is not the right way to sell an idea.
So rather than be disenfranchised by all of this political and inhuman hypocrisy, to be of some use we must remember what is really “Most Wanted”, and for me, that must be to engage with the Junta on their terms. If we forget the political arguments and remember the peoples who have nothing to do with this, it is their futures in an increasingly connected world that is being neglected by those already connected. This requires immediate action and we can do it now. Reasoning that it would look bad for us to engage will make future global integration for Burma that much more difficult the longer our leaders leave it. There is a distinction between self-determination and corruption which is totally blurred by nations acting bilaterally – why is the UN given authority on this one issue to suddenly make it clear?
The Junta must be overrun with ideas, irrespective of whether or not they listen initially. Wouldn’t the quickest solution be that we should pander to their desires till they no longer care? Maybe this is not moral, but we ‘liberals’ should not start pretending to be on an international scale for the sake of negative liberty infringing on exceptionalised moral obligations. According to Amnesty International, there are 54 countries where there are politically related detainments and tortures. Where are their protests in Sydney, Canberra, New York and so on??
Locked up in Burma
I am tracking all reports directly related to the “hidden crackdown” in Burma. Allegations of monk massacres, secret cremations, round-ups. See here:
http://jotman.blogspot.com/search/label/Burma%20-%20reports%20on%20the%20Hidden%20Crisis
Serf –
Some more about Yamaguchi on my blog:
http://jotman.blogspot.com/2007/10/former-japanese-ambassador-to-rangoon.html
http://jotman.blogspot.com/2007/10/japanese-embassy-in-rangoon-99.html
New Mandala’s election watch
“Voters were weary of the old type of politics plagued by conflict and wanted politicians to seriously care about the people’s problems, he said.”
Who is the “he”, and when was this statement made? By Thaksin Shinawatra before the 2001 or the 2005 elections? No, by Abhisit Vejjajiva, in his attempt to get more than the 2 MPs in the Northeast that the Democrats managed in 2005 (Bangkok Post, Oct. 14, p. 1).
The King Never Smiles?
If the king can ask the PM and his cabinet to resign, then the king is having power above the constitution! The king should not involve in politics.
The King Never Smiles?
If the king do not like Thaksin, he can ask him to resign. But he did not. He waited for the military coup and he straightaway supported the coup. Why? Becos the coup always refer the king and has full respect for him. Will the furture PM and his cabinet in the next election be less corrupted? The new constitution limit the power of the PM. But will it prevent the next govt the abuse of power and corruption? I do think so. In the end, who benefits? The king and his family. Who suffers? The people.
Locked up in Burma
Sure! Do you want to go to the hardware store so you can buy some wood, nails and a hammer? With these materials I can help you build a magical box of distance-from-living-in-violence-where-practical-situations-don’t-concern-you to put yourself in like me! …. er, you’re taking yourself somewhere serf, if you don’t find what I write useful that is not really anything to do with me. I find what I write here useful because posting allows me to critique my own attitude toward whatever it is I have written. Maybe this way I can evolve into a champion of Human Rights like a Knights Templar of days gone by!
Locked up in Burma
So where are you taking us today Grasshopper? Somewhere useful?
30 betting books…18 swords…3 loan agreements…and 1 Nazi headband?
[…] lahantsoratra izay navoaky ny gazety Birmana fehezin’ny fitondrana jadona miaramila izay miezaka manala-baraka ireto mpanokatena. Ireo mpanokatena ireo no tena loha-laharana tamin’ny fikomiana izay nitranga tany […]