link to an interesting slightly academic article by Eric S. Margolis from the International Herald Tribune placing the present Burma situation in an historical context:
The Burma government response to these protests illustrate what happens when a government exists only for the purpose of maintaining their own power rather than for the good of the people.
Unlike Germany before World War II the military junta in Burma is only a threat to its own people.
Over the last 45 years since 1962 Burma’s government has become progressively more oppressive initially through ***complete and utter isolation*** with the world under the “Burmese Way to Socialism”
After 1988 under an military regime: 1. supported by economic relations with Asian neighbors: China, Thailand, Singapore, and India, but 2. sanctioned by the West.
This is a deadlock, stalemate combination.
Asian support has made the Western sanctions not only ineffective (a personal friend of mine while I was living in Yangon managed a Korean textile mill that surreptitiously exported to the US by changing labels, for instance)
But has also aggravated the situation, insofar as ***the military regime now listens to absolutely nothing the West says*** and often ***perversely and actively tries to do the exact opposite*** while continuing to receive support from Asian governments.
Thailand for instance accounts for 40% percent of Burma’s exports in the form of natural gas received through pipelines.
Several months ago a Zimbabwe representative was voted into a prominent human rights position at the UN leaving a lot of westerners like former US UN ambassador Bolton dumbfounded.
Thailand’s political scene cannot compete with what has been happening in Burma. Rather, it sems that the country is moving on its military-determined path back to “democracy.” The three organic laws necessary for holding an election–Election Commission Act, Election Act, and Political Parties Act–have been passed by the National Legislative Assembly. In a few days, the king will sign them, followed by their publication in the Royal Gazette. 90 days afterwards, a general election must be held. The Royal Decree confirming the election date of December 23 is also expected in a few days.
In Chachoengsao, the signs are also clear. Signboards and banners have been put up in many places by the People’s Power Power. The PEC’s Monday meeting was still about the local elections that had been held on September 30. But when I walked on the bridge across the Bang Pakong River, a black station wagon stopped and an election commissi0ner stepped out to tell me that there woul be another meeting on Thursday, that is, today. This meeting had to be fixed urgently as a result of what the ECT had stipulated.
This concerned two issues. First, from October 5-11, people can apply for the positions of constituency director and constituency committee members. This has to be announced and publicized by the PEC. The PEC will have tp send 15 names to the ECT, which will make the final selection.
Second, the re-drawing of the constituencies had to be done (a reduction to two from four). For this purpose, the office of the PEC had prepared a number of documents, including maps and lists of figures. The latter concerned the number of voters in each constituency. This procedure followed the draft of an ECT regulation, meaning that it was very hot. The PEC had to resolve for three modes of possible constituency divisions. From tomorrow, they will have to be made public to enable people to comment on the PEC’s suggestions. In fact, the PEC might also conduct a public hearing. However, since the entire process must be finished within seven days, there will not be sufficient time.
Afterwards, the PEC will have to send their three models, ordered according to the PEC members preferences and supplemented by the public’s comments, if any, to the ECT, which will make the final decision.
Are you suggesting we invade ? Didn’t realise the Kachin(Czech’s?) or the Mon(Poles?) were so close to our territorial interests. My mistake – each human is as valuable as every other human and whether they know it or not, they’re liberals too! When do we go in? Mama has knitted me some nice cotton undergarments for the tropics. You and Col. Jeruchai (or Churchill?!?!?!) are more than welcome to place an order for your own!
I am not exactly sure what Lleij Samuel Schwartz’s point is. If he/she is suggesting military action to bring down the current regime in Burma, ok, than at least we would be debating a potential solution to the problem. Long before this current “crisis” brought this to the world’s attention, I was at a meeting where a representative of the Thai government was being grilled by a representative of an EU country about why Thailand has not forced the Burmese Government to change policies. The Thai representative asked, how can you use outside pressure to force a regime that has chosen to be isolationist to change?
Just like the EU representative, it is easier to blame someone else than come up with a solution to a situation where there are no easy answers. We can blame Thailand, China, India, America, or the British for having once colonized the country. But what good does the blaming do?
I am working on the border with refugees from Burma trying to deal with the reality of the situation, but feel completely powerless to change the fundamental problems. Bringing the world’s attention to the problem surely can’t hurt, but these attempts to force the regime, which does not care about the welfare of its own people or its image internationally, to change, or better yet abdicate, are unlikely to have an substantial effect.
On a side note, why are so any supporters of the Thai dictatorship keeping silent on this issue on this website?
Through the new science of Rhetorical Chronometrics, I have regressed your comment to it’s semantic roots (circa 1938 A.D.) Behold!
Chamberlain // Oct 4, 1938 at 1:59 pm
Mr. Churchill , what good would antagonizing the Germans do when they already do not care what we think of them? Surely the only international approach can be engagement to a point where Hitler’s guard is let down enough to be broken? Won’t all international sanction based policy emerging as a result of the protests maintain underdevelopment for ordinary people because their ‘leaders’ (despite how illegitimate they may be) will be more inclined to be secretive? Surely without more disarming engagement this process for Czech citizens will take many more decades of sporadically teasing protests and unnecessary bloodshed.
We’ll engage with the Soviets, we’ll engage with France and her lobbyists, we’ll engage with Japan and its immoral distribution, we’ll engage with Spain’s new rich and all these other upholders and uncaring, inadvertent supporters of developing world corruption but we will not engage with Germany because their corruption is too true and obvious for our radio listening public. If we in Great Britian could make a choice for the people of the Sudetenland; between persistent pain, fear, disease, underdevelopment and a refugee crisis or admitting that dealing with people who are obviously corrupt will allow the people of Germany’s various Reichsprotektorat to become a radio listening public themselves – what do you think we would choose?
Also, that the name Germany is used instead of the Gro├Яdeutsches Reich by seemingly everyone – has anyone bothered to ask protesters what they would prefer?
link to very interesting testimony Wednesday from the Burmese who is Head of the VOA Burma Service. During his testimony, he goes into the overall strategy of the present protest movement in Burma which extends beyond the initial crackdown of this past week:
Special Note: Anderson Cooper of CNN Anderson Cooper 360 started his career as a journalist in SE Asia and was actually in Burma as a reporter during the earlier upheaval. As such he seems to have genuine and special interest in the Burma situation and anyone with new information from inside Burma, new videos or photos, should try to get them to Anderson Cooper at CNN.com
Col. Jeru, what good would antagonizing the Junta do when they already do not care what we think of them? Surely the only international approach can be engagement to a point where the Junta’s guard is let down enough to be broken? Won’t all international sanction based policy emerging as a result of the protests maintain underdevelopment for ordinary people because their ‘leaders’ (despite how illegitimate they may be) will be more inclined to be secretive? Surely without more disarming engagement this process for Burmese citizens will take many more decades of sporadically teasing protests and unnecessary bloodshed.
We’ll engage with Israel, we’ll engage with the United States and its lobbyists, we’ll engage with China and its immoral distribution, we’ll engage with Malaysia’s new rich and all these other upholders and uncaring, inadvertent supporters of developing world corruption but we will not engage with Burma because their corruption is too true and obvious for our TV watching public. If we in Australia could make a choice for the people of Burma-Myanmar; between persistent pain, fear, disease, underdevelopment and a refugee crisis or admitting that dealing with people who are obviously corrupt will allow the people of Burma-Myanmar to become a TV watching public themselves – what do you think we would choose?
Also, that the name Burma is used instead of Myanmar by seemingly everyone – has anyone bothered to ask protesters what they would prefer?
The economic hardships at Burma must be intolerable. I read that CIA estimates (Y2006) inflation rate at this ‘hellhole’ at 21%, unemployment rate at 11% and people living below the poverty line at 25%. With dire statistics as above, Burma already one of the world’s poorest, is getting poorer each year under the dreaded junta.
It’s not that they don’t know better, it’s that they make heaps of money from such things.
cf Arundhati Roy’s essay “The Greater Common Good on the Narmada dam in India. Same Iron Triangle here, I bet. Except Laos and China don’t even pretend to be democratic.
In a Channel 4 UK broadcast later tonight (Wednesday), they interview the Burmese army Major Win who fled his Burma for Thailand because of his revulsion at the treatment of Buddhist monks.
Warning: you may be disturbed by some of the images in Jonathan Miller’s report later tonight.
here is link to UK Guardian follow up story on Burma Officer who crossed over into Thailand with monk massacre story. The Guardian adds more detail regarding possible cracks within the Burma military in regard to the present situation.
On Wednesday, October 3rd, Human Rights Watch, a Bangkok NGO, presented a man they said was a Myanmar army major who had fled the country to Thailand (this is Officer Win who is telling the story of the monks massacre). The group released a transcript of an interview with the unidentified man.
“The demonstrators were very peaceful. Later when I heard they were shot and killed and the armed forces used tear gas, I was really upset and I thought the army should stand for their own people,” the man was quoted as saying.
Human Rights Watch declined to allow the AP to interview or photograph the man, saying it would compromise his safety.
David Mathieson from Human Rights Watch is the guy next to the Burma Officer in Bangkok.
Can someone in Bangkok get a hold of a transcript of this interview and post it?
Damn those dams! There must be better alternatives now, and if not, better to wait for technology to catch up.
Surely after all we now know about dams and how they wreck the environment and the people and their culture within the vicinity of the dams, those development experts (and development bankers) would know better..
The Chinese huge dams (3-Gorges) will be their colossal curse. Exporting their cursed dam building technology to Laos and impoverished neighbors look good on paper but with untold social and environmental costs tagged on for decades to follow.
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Free Burma
link to an interesting slightly academic article by Eric S. Margolis from the International Herald Tribune placing the present Burma situation in an historical context:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/04/news/edmargo.php
Burma protest in Bangkok
The Burma government response to these protests illustrate what happens when a government exists only for the purpose of maintaining their own power rather than for the good of the people.
Global protest petition on Burma
Unlike Germany before World War II the military junta in Burma is only a threat to its own people.
Over the last 45 years since 1962 Burma’s government has become progressively more oppressive initially through ***complete and utter isolation*** with the world under the “Burmese Way to Socialism”
After 1988 under an military regime: 1. supported by economic relations with Asian neighbors: China, Thailand, Singapore, and India, but 2. sanctioned by the West.
This is a deadlock, stalemate combination.
Asian support has made the Western sanctions not only ineffective (a personal friend of mine while I was living in Yangon managed a Korean textile mill that surreptitiously exported to the US by changing labels, for instance)
But has also aggravated the situation, insofar as ***the military regime now listens to absolutely nothing the West says*** and often ***perversely and actively tries to do the exact opposite*** while continuing to receive support from Asian governments.
Thailand for instance accounts for 40% percent of Burma’s exports in the form of natural gas received through pipelines.
Several months ago a Zimbabwe representative was voted into a prominent human rights position at the UN leaving a lot of westerners like former US UN ambassador Bolton dumbfounded.
The same “bug off” logic applies here too.
Demands by Barbara Bush for the junta to step down are laughable because they are seen as taunts and a very good reason not to step by the junta.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=asA.vV51Sg.k&refer=japan
Which leads me to question whether Barbara Bush is really a true believer or if it is just a PR campaign ploy meant for internal consumption.
New Mandala’s election watch
Thailand’s political scene cannot compete with what has been happening in Burma. Rather, it sems that the country is moving on its military-determined path back to “democracy.” The three organic laws necessary for holding an election–Election Commission Act, Election Act, and Political Parties Act–have been passed by the National Legislative Assembly. In a few days, the king will sign them, followed by their publication in the Royal Gazette. 90 days afterwards, a general election must be held. The Royal Decree confirming the election date of December 23 is also expected in a few days.
In Chachoengsao, the signs are also clear. Signboards and banners have been put up in many places by the People’s Power Power. The PEC’s Monday meeting was still about the local elections that had been held on September 30. But when I walked on the bridge across the Bang Pakong River, a black station wagon stopped and an election commissi0ner stepped out to tell me that there woul be another meeting on Thursday, that is, today. This meeting had to be fixed urgently as a result of what the ECT had stipulated.
This concerned two issues. First, from October 5-11, people can apply for the positions of constituency director and constituency committee members. This has to be announced and publicized by the PEC. The PEC will have tp send 15 names to the ECT, which will make the final selection.
Second, the re-drawing of the constituencies had to be done (a reduction to two from four). For this purpose, the office of the PEC had prepared a number of documents, including maps and lists of figures. The latter concerned the number of voters in each constituency. This procedure followed the draft of an ECT regulation, meaning that it was very hot. The PEC had to resolve for three modes of possible constituency divisions. From tomorrow, they will have to be made public to enable people to comment on the PEC’s suggestions. In fact, the PEC might also conduct a public hearing. However, since the entire process must be finished within seven days, there will not be sufficient time.
Afterwards, the PEC will have to send their three models, ordered according to the PEC members preferences and supplemented by the public’s comments, if any, to the ECT, which will make the final decision.
Global protest petition on Burma
Danke Schwartz,
Are you suggesting we invade ? Didn’t realise the Kachin(Czech’s?) or the Mon(Poles?) were so close to our territorial interests. My mistake – each human is as valuable as every other human and whether they know it or not, they’re liberals too! When do we go in? Mama has knitted me some nice cotton undergarments for the tropics. You and Col. Jeruchai (or Churchill?!?!?!) are more than welcome to place an order for your own!
Sincerely,
Neville
Global protest petition on Burma
I am not exactly sure what Lleij Samuel Schwartz’s point is. If he/she is suggesting military action to bring down the current regime in Burma, ok, than at least we would be debating a potential solution to the problem. Long before this current “crisis” brought this to the world’s attention, I was at a meeting where a representative of the Thai government was being grilled by a representative of an EU country about why Thailand has not forced the Burmese Government to change policies. The Thai representative asked, how can you use outside pressure to force a regime that has chosen to be isolationist to change?
Just like the EU representative, it is easier to blame someone else than come up with a solution to a situation where there are no easy answers. We can blame Thailand, China, India, America, or the British for having once colonized the country. But what good does the blaming do?
I am working on the border with refugees from Burma trying to deal with the reality of the situation, but feel completely powerless to change the fundamental problems. Bringing the world’s attention to the problem surely can’t hurt, but these attempts to force the regime, which does not care about the welfare of its own people or its image internationally, to change, or better yet abdicate, are unlikely to have an substantial effect.
On a side note, why are so any supporters of the Thai dictatorship keeping silent on this issue on this website?
Global protest petition on Burma
Re: Grasshopper>
Through the new science of Rhetorical Chronometrics, I have regressed your comment to it’s semantic roots (circa 1938 A.D.) Behold!
Chamberlain // Oct 4, 1938 at 1:59 pm
Mr. Churchill , what good would antagonizing the Germans do when they already do not care what we think of them? Surely the only international approach can be engagement to a point where Hitler’s guard is let down enough to be broken? Won’t all international sanction based policy emerging as a result of the protests maintain underdevelopment for ordinary people because their ‘leaders’ (despite how illegitimate they may be) will be more inclined to be secretive? Surely without more disarming engagement this process for Czech citizens will take many more decades of sporadically teasing protests and unnecessary bloodshed.
We’ll engage with the Soviets, we’ll engage with France and her lobbyists, we’ll engage with Japan and its immoral distribution, we’ll engage with Spain’s new rich and all these other upholders and uncaring, inadvertent supporters of developing world corruption but we will not engage with Germany because their corruption is too true and obvious for our radio listening public. If we in Great Britian could make a choice for the people of the Sudetenland; between persistent pain, fear, disease, underdevelopment and a refugee crisis or admitting that dealing with people who are obviously corrupt will allow the people of Germany’s various Reichsprotektorat to become a radio listening public themselves – what do you think we would choose?
Also, that the name Germany is used instead of the Gro├Яdeutsches Reich by seemingly everyone – has anyone bothered to ask protesters what they would prefer?
Meshuga.
Free Burma
link to very interesting testimony Wednesday from the Burmese who is Head of the VOA Burma Service. During his testimony, he goes into the overall strategy of the present protest movement in Burma which extends beyond the initial crackdown of this past week:
http://voanews.com/english/About/2007-10-03-burmese-statement.cfm
Paul Handley replies to comments
I’m surprised there’s nothing yet on New Mandala on the banning of Sulak Sivaraksa’s book:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/04Oct2007_news04.php
Free Burma
link to CNN report titled Myanmar Death Total: Where are the Monks?
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/10/01/myanmar.dead.ap/index.html#cnnSTCText
link to CNN Report titled Myanmar Bodies Were a Warning:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/10/03/myanmar.witness/index.html#cnnSTCText
link to CNN video story titled Concern for Myanmar’s Monks (ignore the dumb ad at the front):
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2007/10/03/chance.myanmar.fearful.monks.cnn
Special Note: Anderson Cooper of CNN Anderson Cooper 360 started his career as a journalist in SE Asia and was actually in Burma as a reporter during the earlier upheaval. As such he seems to have genuine and special interest in the Burma situation and anyone with new information from inside Burma, new videos or photos, should try to get them to Anderson Cooper at CNN.com
Global protest petition on Burma
Col. Jeru, what good would antagonizing the Junta do when they already do not care what we think of them? Surely the only international approach can be engagement to a point where the Junta’s guard is let down enough to be broken? Won’t all international sanction based policy emerging as a result of the protests maintain underdevelopment for ordinary people because their ‘leaders’ (despite how illegitimate they may be) will be more inclined to be secretive? Surely without more disarming engagement this process for Burmese citizens will take many more decades of sporadically teasing protests and unnecessary bloodshed.
We’ll engage with Israel, we’ll engage with the United States and its lobbyists, we’ll engage with China and its immoral distribution, we’ll engage with Malaysia’s new rich and all these other upholders and uncaring, inadvertent supporters of developing world corruption but we will not engage with Burma because their corruption is too true and obvious for our TV watching public. If we in Australia could make a choice for the people of Burma-Myanmar; between persistent pain, fear, disease, underdevelopment and a refugee crisis or admitting that dealing with people who are obviously corrupt will allow the people of Burma-Myanmar to become a TV watching public themselves – what do you think we would choose?
Also, that the name Burma is used instead of Myanmar by seemingly everyone – has anyone bothered to ask protesters what they would prefer?
Stallone: “This is a hellhole beyond your wildest dreams”
The economic hardships at Burma must be intolerable. I read that CIA estimates (Y2006) inflation rate at this ‘hellhole’ at 21%, unemployment rate at 11% and people living below the poverty line at 25%. With dire statistics as above, Burma already one of the world’s poorest, is getting poorer each year under the dreaded junta.
Freedom for Burma!
The Nam Tha dam
It’s not that they don’t know better, it’s that they make heaps of money from such things.
cf Arundhati Roy’s essay “The Greater Common Good on the Narmada dam in India. Same Iron Triangle here, I bet. Except Laos and China don’t even pretend to be democratic.
Free Burma
link to UK Channel 4 segment in which some of their Jonathan Miller interview with the Burma officer who crossed into Thailand appears:
http://www.channel4.com/player/v2/player.jsp?showId=9498
Free Burma
In a Channel 4 UK broadcast later tonight (Wednesday), they interview the Burmese army Major Win who fled his Burma for Thailand because of his revulsion at the treatment of Buddhist monks.
Warning: you may be disturbed by some of the images in Jonathan Miller’s report later tonight.
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/international_politics/new+evidence+of+burmese+violence/875262
It would be great if someone in UK could tape this interview and post it on this blog or one of the video sites.
Free Burma
here is link to UK Guardian follow up story on Burma Officer who crossed over into Thailand with monk massacre story. The Guardian adds more detail regarding possible cracks within the Burma military in regard to the present situation.
The Guardian story titled: Burmese Army Major Defects to Thailand by Matthew Weaver
http://www.guardian.co.uk/burma/story/0,,2182816,00.html
Free Burma
here is a link to a UK Times article just published about some battles between soldiers and monks in Rangoon today:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article2583600.ece
Free Burma
here is a link to a Der Spiegel story that just came out titled: “They Come at Night and Murder the Monks”
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,509232,00.html
Free Burma
On Wednesday, October 3rd, Human Rights Watch, a Bangkok NGO, presented a man they said was a Myanmar army major who had fled the country to Thailand (this is Officer Win who is telling the story of the monks massacre). The group released a transcript of an interview with the unidentified man.
“The demonstrators were very peaceful. Later when I heard they were shot and killed and the armed forces used tear gas, I was really upset and I thought the army should stand for their own people,” the man was quoted as saying.
Human Rights Watch declined to allow the AP to interview or photograph the man, saying it would compromise his safety.
David Mathieson from Human Rights Watch is the guy next to the Burma Officer in Bangkok.
Can someone in Bangkok get a hold of a transcript of this interview and post it?
The Nam Tha dam
Damn those dams! There must be better alternatives now, and if not, better to wait for technology to catch up.
Surely after all we now know about dams and how they wreck the environment and the people and their culture within the vicinity of the dams, those development experts (and development bankers) would know better..
The Chinese huge dams (3-Gorges) will be their colossal curse. Exporting their cursed dam building technology to Laos and impoverished neighbors look good on paper but with untold social and environmental costs tagged on for decades to follow.