Let’s leave the ‘luv’ to those deluded monarchists and TRTs! My ‘garden’ thrives better on a healthy disrespect for the weeds that try to self-sow themselves by blowing in over the fence.
So the art of gardening takes time to learn! But in my experience, that time is not ill-spent. Indeed, it is a most agreeable pastime to cultivate one’s own ignorance in the company of other local gardeners. One can almost forget one is poor. In that respect, it is a form of the transcendental in its own right.
Was it really such a good idea to slaughter the garden staff just because they showed slight signs of wanting some bigger say in the running of the garden? They may not have known much about horticultural science, but they certainly knew how to plant stuff. Now we are left with the Semi-Divine gardener, who gardens by decree. Not exactly conducive to a productive garden either. By the time he’s spent hours meditating over the deeper meaning of crop infestation, the harvest is already ruined. Th Divine Gardener’s son isn’t really interested in gardening, but I do know an enterprising property developer who is persuading him it would be a good idea to bulldoze the garden and turn it into a theme park. Adequate compensation and free slum space provided in Bangkok, as a bonus.
Vichai N. Sorry to belabour the point, but Andrew asked: “do you think Thaksin made the birthday video?”
You replied: “Andrew (#9) asks whether I believe vindictive Thaksin was capable of stooping so low purvey malicious anti-monarchy videos? I believe Thaksin Shinawatra was capable of stooping much lower Andrew Walker.”
So you didn’t answer the question. What you did was create your own question and answered that.
Serf, as a poor person, I am offended that I have been cajoled into ‘grassroots’ campaigns to free myself from a Big Brother that I never knew cared for me. I was born into these politics you speak of post-revolution. From experience I can safely say that without a dedicated team of gardeners, these grassroots campaigns can get prohibitively weedy. For instance whilst recently listening to Mahler on the iPod(tm) my daughter sent me from as a result of some sort of bonus in Bangkok, I was unexpectedly stung by some nettles! Sent reeling into the magnificently yellow daisies Big Brother Bhumibol caught me and helped me stand up just as this horrible Bumble Bee Thaksin was about to make a vindictive 4000 Baht sting! I love Big Brother. He already loves you too!
This does not come as any great surprise. You are probably highlighting the wrong problem anyway. So you can exercise your vote in a rational manner, but you are then faced with a choice of two: repressive monarchists Vs. corrupt popularists. Indeed, your choice is even more limited than that – as the repressive monarchists are also corrupt, and the corrupt popularists also hail from the military academy of repression. Thus, rational voting by the poor is incapable of changing anything. The system is loaded against them at all turns. Perhaps that rationality would be better translated into the creation of grassroots parties with a socialist agenda. Such parties will, of course, be subjected to repression by the two malevolent forces listed above. But such forces are not nearly as ubiquitous and effective as they like to think they are. If that means that the poor will have to return to the clandestine revolutionary movements of the Vietnam War era, then so be it! Folks are going to have to use their rationality to actually subvert this dreadful system.
Like Republican, I agree that Thaksin supporters probably produced the videos. My question though is how much of a battle is going on inside the palace? Prem must be copping some flak through all of this. One can imagine that the crown prince would want to blame someone for the leaking of what is essentially a family video. Is he blaming Prem? Does this mean that there could be an alliance between the prince and some Thaksin people? We all know the earlier rumours about the prince, Thaksin and the king. So throw all that into the political mix, and the palace must be experiencing a degree of concern.
A friend had an interesting theory on the videos. There is little doubt that they were produced by Thai Rak Thai or its supporters. The production is quite professional and the message is almost the same as that of the PTV-Thai Rak Thai-organized demonstrations a few months ago at Sanam Luang which ended with the march on Prem’s house: blame everything on Prem while absolving the monarchy from any responsibility. Another interesting aspect is that the videos were released onto YouTube not long after the ICT lifted its ban on the site. It’s kind of like saying, “we’re back”. Even if they ban these latest videos it is pretty likely that new ones would appear soon enough, if not on YouTube and in this form then somewhere else on the web in the same or other forms. Also, it’s quite easy for people to save the clips and circulate them themselves. It’s virtually impossible to ban this kind of stuff.
To interpret the video we have to consider the current political situation. You would have to think that Thai Rak Thai is winning the propaganda war right now. Things are going pretty terribly for the government and the junta. Politically Thai Rak Thai are looking good. The Democrats and Chat Thai will be branded as the parties that supported the dictatorship. Phalang Prachachon has a good chance of being the largest party in parliament after the next election, unless the military carries out some crackdown on the party or there is a blatant attempt to rig the elections, both of which are risky strategies. Samak has already publicly promised that if Phalang Prachachon wins government they will issue an amnesty for the 111 executives of Thai Rak Thai that were banned from politics by the Constitutional Tribunal. Then, perhaps a dissolution of parliament could be engineered, followed by new elections in which the Thai Rak Thai politicians could contest – under whatever name – with a promise to abrogate “the Dictators’ Constitution” and return to the “Peoples’ Constitution” of 1997. Presumably Thai Rak Thai would win again, and we would be back to the situation before the coup. Once Phalang Prachachon-Thai Rak Thai was in power a purge of the royalists, especially in the military, would then take place. Also, one would think that they would crack down on the Privy Council. Prem would have to go. Another factor in Thai Rak Thai’s favour is the international image of the government and the junta, which is at its lowest ebb and is getting worse. Worst of all for them, the monarchy’s role in the coup, and its stance vis-├а-vis democracy in Thailand is becoming the object of increasing international media attention, which will have an effect on the monarchy’s domestic image. This was a key theme of the YouTube videos. If the military and the royalists were to intervene again in some way the international response would be far stronger than the mild reprimand last September. Thaksin, on the other hand, is projecting the image of a true democrat and neo-liberal globalizer – exactly what the international community wants – while at the same time demonstrating to his supporters at hom his nationalism, willingness to compromise and loyalty to the throne.
So things are very bad now for the coup plotters and the monarchy. Thus the videos can be seen as offering a deal to the Palace: you can take the easy way out and let Prem and the junta and the other coup plotters be the fall guys for everything that has happened, and let us back. Or, we have the power to make things very difficult for you, not least by publicly implicating you in the coup on the Internet and showing to the world that you are the real obstacle to democracy in Thailand.
Re: nganadeelg> I think you’re being too generous to Long! I made the comparison because my opinion of “the Kingfish” is not too high. You have to admit, the comparison to Long is more apt than to Hitler.
Anyway, to answer your question, I think Thaksin, if he was in Long’s position, would have understood that such a plan would have been worth it for the political capital it would have generated.
Vichai N says: “Just about every Thai political leader I agree can be described as corrupt and nepotistic. But I believe it was only Thaksin Shinawatra who had people killed.” Really, only Thaksin? Better read some more Thai history.
Maybe you mean “elected leader” and on such a grand scale?
“He writes it as if Thai democracy and democratic development is up to the whims of and held hostage by one person/one institution, HM the King and the monarchy.”
Sidh, when you write a statement such as that, and then proceed to write this, “those groups of people mess up and the King is drawn into the fray – to give guidance as best as he could”, you’re merely guilty of the same sin you accuse Paul Handley of. You downplay HMK’s role to the point of “wise, innocent guide.” This sort of naive statement of your delusion and attachment to the propaganda has rendered your opinion rather less forceful.
You must admit that at the very least, HMK was instrumental in some coups and events. You must admit that as monarch, he had his influence (and his perceived mission) to act. To say he is the main obstacle to Thai democracy would be wrong, as you say. But to still see him as a benevolent constitutional monarch stuck in the crossfires is also entirely wrong. He was a big force and face it, he was more a big force for military dictatorship than for democracy.
Read up on Spain’s King Juan Carlos I. Now THAT, is a democratic monarch.
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The vote of the poor
Let’s leave the ‘luv’ to those deluded monarchists and TRTs! My ‘garden’ thrives better on a healthy disrespect for the weeds that try to self-sow themselves by blowing in over the fence.
The vote of the poor
So the art of gardening takes time to learn! But in my experience, that time is not ill-spent. Indeed, it is a most agreeable pastime to cultivate one’s own ignorance in the company of other local gardeners. One can almost forget one is poor. In that respect, it is a form of the transcendental in its own right.
Was it really such a good idea to slaughter the garden staff just because they showed slight signs of wanting some bigger say in the running of the garden? They may not have known much about horticultural science, but they certainly knew how to plant stuff. Now we are left with the Semi-Divine gardener, who gardens by decree. Not exactly conducive to a productive garden either. By the time he’s spent hours meditating over the deeper meaning of crop infestation, the harvest is already ruined. Th Divine Gardener’s son isn’t really interested in gardening, but I do know an enterprising property developer who is persuading him it would be a good idea to bulldoze the garden and turn it into a theme park. Adequate compensation and free slum space provided in Bangkok, as a bonus.
The vote of the poor
Don’t understand that, although it does have a certain psychedelic charm about it.
Monastic protests in Burma
I have started posting photos from various sources here:
Saffron Revolution
Youtube’s privy politics
Vichai N. Sorry to belabour the point, but Andrew asked: “do you think Thaksin made the birthday video?”
You replied: “Andrew (#9) asks whether I believe vindictive Thaksin was capable of stooping so low purvey malicious anti-monarchy videos? I believe Thaksin Shinawatra was capable of stooping much lower Andrew Walker.”
So you didn’t answer the question. What you did was create your own question and answered that.
The vote of the poor
Serf, as a poor person, I am offended that I have been cajoled into ‘grassroots’ campaigns to free myself from a Big Brother that I never knew cared for me. I was born into these politics you speak of post-revolution. From experience I can safely say that without a dedicated team of gardeners, these grassroots campaigns can get prohibitively weedy. For instance whilst recently listening to Mahler on the iPod(tm) my daughter sent me from as a result of some sort of bonus in Bangkok, I was unexpectedly stung by some nettles! Sent reeling into the magnificently yellow daisies Big Brother Bhumibol caught me and helped me stand up just as this horrible Bumble Bee Thaksin was about to make a vindictive 4000 Baht sting! I love Big Brother. He already loves you too!
Monastic protests in Burma
CNN is now reporting protests of 100,000 people! Is this a realistic estimate?
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/09/24/myanmar.protest.ap/index.html
Strange but true in Laos
[…] Comment on Strange but true in Laos by Thai ChatEntertaining indeed. Should make a short movie out of it and post the result on youtube ! […]
Youtube’s privy politics
On the subject of the propaganda war, Fa Dio Kan’s webboard appears to have just come under attack by irate royalist bloggers. They are clogging up the webboard with large numbers of obscene or abusive posts. Check out the chaos at: http://www.sameskybooks.org/webboard/webboard.php?Category=sameskybooks&page=1
To hell with heffalumps
Does seem like the Lao government is shooting itself in the foot.
Will all those nice tourists want to go there anymore when the quaint little town that they loved so well is now a mercury poison dump?
Youtube’s privy politics
Re: Republican>
Also, it’s quite easy for people to save the clips and circulate them themselves. It’s virtually impossible to ban this kind of stuff.
Maybe it’s this realization that is the real reason why Sittichai P. resigned so quickly.
The vote of the poor
This does not come as any great surprise. You are probably highlighting the wrong problem anyway. So you can exercise your vote in a rational manner, but you are then faced with a choice of two: repressive monarchists Vs. corrupt popularists. Indeed, your choice is even more limited than that – as the repressive monarchists are also corrupt, and the corrupt popularists also hail from the military academy of repression. Thus, rational voting by the poor is incapable of changing anything. The system is loaded against them at all turns. Perhaps that rationality would be better translated into the creation of grassroots parties with a socialist agenda. Such parties will, of course, be subjected to repression by the two malevolent forces listed above. But such forces are not nearly as ubiquitous and effective as they like to think they are. If that means that the poor will have to return to the clandestine revolutionary movements of the Vietnam War era, then so be it! Folks are going to have to use their rationality to actually subvert this dreadful system.
Youtube’s privy politics
Restorationist I already answered Andrew’s question in #14 . . read it again.
Youtube’s privy politics
Like Republican, I agree that Thaksin supporters probably produced the videos. My question though is how much of a battle is going on inside the palace? Prem must be copping some flak through all of this. One can imagine that the crown prince would want to blame someone for the leaking of what is essentially a family video. Is he blaming Prem? Does this mean that there could be an alliance between the prince and some Thaksin people? We all know the earlier rumours about the prince, Thaksin and the king. So throw all that into the political mix, and the palace must be experiencing a degree of concern.
Youtube’s privy politics
A friend had an interesting theory on the videos. There is little doubt that they were produced by Thai Rak Thai or its supporters. The production is quite professional and the message is almost the same as that of the PTV-Thai Rak Thai-organized demonstrations a few months ago at Sanam Luang which ended with the march on Prem’s house: blame everything on Prem while absolving the monarchy from any responsibility. Another interesting aspect is that the videos were released onto YouTube not long after the ICT lifted its ban on the site. It’s kind of like saying, “we’re back”. Even if they ban these latest videos it is pretty likely that new ones would appear soon enough, if not on YouTube and in this form then somewhere else on the web in the same or other forms. Also, it’s quite easy for people to save the clips and circulate them themselves. It’s virtually impossible to ban this kind of stuff.
To interpret the video we have to consider the current political situation. You would have to think that Thai Rak Thai is winning the propaganda war right now. Things are going pretty terribly for the government and the junta. Politically Thai Rak Thai are looking good. The Democrats and Chat Thai will be branded as the parties that supported the dictatorship. Phalang Prachachon has a good chance of being the largest party in parliament after the next election, unless the military carries out some crackdown on the party or there is a blatant attempt to rig the elections, both of which are risky strategies. Samak has already publicly promised that if Phalang Prachachon wins government they will issue an amnesty for the 111 executives of Thai Rak Thai that were banned from politics by the Constitutional Tribunal. Then, perhaps a dissolution of parliament could be engineered, followed by new elections in which the Thai Rak Thai politicians could contest – under whatever name – with a promise to abrogate “the Dictators’ Constitution” and return to the “Peoples’ Constitution” of 1997. Presumably Thai Rak Thai would win again, and we would be back to the situation before the coup. Once Phalang Prachachon-Thai Rak Thai was in power a purge of the royalists, especially in the military, would then take place. Also, one would think that they would crack down on the Privy Council. Prem would have to go. Another factor in Thai Rak Thai’s favour is the international image of the government and the junta, which is at its lowest ebb and is getting worse. Worst of all for them, the monarchy’s role in the coup, and its stance vis-├а-vis democracy in Thailand is becoming the object of increasing international media attention, which will have an effect on the monarchy’s domestic image. This was a key theme of the YouTube videos. If the military and the royalists were to intervene again in some way the international response would be far stronger than the mild reprimand last September. Thaksin, on the other hand, is projecting the image of a true democrat and neo-liberal globalizer – exactly what the international community wants – while at the same time demonstrating to his supporters at hom his nationalism, willingness to compromise and loyalty to the throne.
So things are very bad now for the coup plotters and the monarchy. Thus the videos can be seen as offering a deal to the Palace: you can take the easy way out and let Prem and the junta and the other coup plotters be the fall guys for everything that has happened, and let us back. Or, we have the power to make things very difficult for you, not least by publicly implicating you in the coup on the Internet and showing to the world that you are the real obstacle to democracy in Thailand.
The ethical poverty of sufficiency democracy
Re: nganadeelg> I think you’re being too generous to Long! I made the comparison because my opinion of “the Kingfish” is not too high. You have to admit, the comparison to Long is more apt than to Hitler.
Anyway, to answer your question, I think Thaksin, if he was in Long’s position, would have understood that such a plan would have been worth it for the political capital it would have generated.
Youtube’s privy politics
Vichai. You did not answer Andrew’s question. Read it again.
The ethical poverty of sufficiency democracy
Vichai N says: “Just about every Thai political leader I agree can be described as corrupt and nepotistic. But I believe it was only Thaksin Shinawatra who had people killed.” Really, only Thaksin? Better read some more Thai history.
Maybe you mean “elected leader” and on such a grand scale?
Interview with Paul Handley
“He writes it as if Thai democracy and democratic development is up to the whims of and held hostage by one person/one institution, HM the King and the monarchy.”
Sidh, when you write a statement such as that, and then proceed to write this, “those groups of people mess up and the King is drawn into the fray – to give guidance as best as he could”, you’re merely guilty of the same sin you accuse Paul Handley of. You downplay HMK’s role to the point of “wise, innocent guide.” This sort of naive statement of your delusion and attachment to the propaganda has rendered your opinion rather less forceful.
You must admit that at the very least, HMK was instrumental in some coups and events. You must admit that as monarch, he had his influence (and his perceived mission) to act. To say he is the main obstacle to Thai democracy would be wrong, as you say. But to still see him as a benevolent constitutional monarch stuck in the crossfires is also entirely wrong. He was a big force and face it, he was more a big force for military dictatorship than for democracy.
Read up on Spain’s King Juan Carlos I. Now THAT, is a democratic monarch.
To hell with heffalumps
Greenpeace is not the most reliable of organizations.
Yet, I still stand with the author on this issue. The only coal that should be burnt is anthracite.