One look at Forbes’ top 50 richest Thais makes Chris Beale’s comment look pretty tepid, nearly meaningless and pedestrian.
Will the doctor evil/richest man in the world meme of vapor which launched Cartalucci and Draitser to ignomy ever die? Methinks not as long as it makes hay and money for a specific political disposition.
It would seem you can take the opium from the masses and at least be partially successful.
I saw my post get equal up & down 9/9. Those that will search high & low to “prove” their agenda (That Buddhism is a religion) and the Enlightened ones that know it is an enduring philosophy of life. After all it has endured longer than Christianity/Islam.
I thank the many posters that know we Buddhists are following a tried and tested, evolving philosophy of life. Without guidance from a God.
Our temples will not become churches…
I thank those too, whose eyes are not yet fully open, because I know, one day, you will join us in natures garden, sipping nectar through silver straws…..
I also suspect that the Red Shirts leaders had been strongly and very vehemently defending and blocking the ongoing judicial prosecution of Phra Dhammachayo of wat Dhammakaya because a big slice of this temple’s huge daily donations are being skimmed by the Pheau Thai Party and the Red Shirts leadership.
I agree that we need more data. So far, both Thai and English pieces are very scant, not comprehensive. You get more information from gossip leaked from insiders than reading newspapers.
Buddhism is the best righteous path of living life and thats why nowadays many people from worldwide are embracing buddhist views , reading buddha and are standing to preserve buddhism as its basic teachings like liberty equality freedom compassion can save the world from any type of mishappenings…..don’t water any negativity because buddhism is the only last hope to save humanity , nature , animals etc etc……it had been uplifting humanity since from centuries and may the dharma wheel rget motion by all the well wishers……..indian constitution is been written by great buddhist Dr.Ambedkar which is holding india unitedly due to buddhist teachings merged in constitution……….
ups, another mistake smuggled itself in, in the second last paragraph it should read: “The Red/Yellow conflict is *NOT* just a class conflict or a political conflict, but…”
Thaksin’s first “self made” fortune was gained through his monopoly supplying computers to his former employer the Royal Thai Police. There was no proper open tender for this (how typical of Thai “capitalism! ). It is amazing that Dr. Jim Taylor pretends otherwise.
I am sorry, but that is a very mistaken view. That may appear so from an urban perspective. But in rural Thailand the temples are still very much one of the three centers of the fabric of society, regardless exposed scandals of misconduct of monks. Therefore political positioning of the Sangha and individual monks or sects matter a lot – not in academic terms, but in very practical terms.
I can’t really comment on matters of faith or philosophy. I don’t think the issue is not just infighting within the Sangha, but that the 10 year conflict here in Thailand is inevitably forcing the Sangha also into the arena. Especially in the North and the Northeast the temples are still important parts of the communities, and monks are very influential and at the same time are very close to the people, and naturally share their aspirations and disappointments.
To me it seems that the conflict over the appointment of the sangharaja is very political, on the one hand the Dhammakaya/Thaksin issue used, the corruption narrative, and opposition very clearly allied with Yellow, and given not mentioned affiliation with Thammayut – this might turn into a very problematic situation and escalation. The Red/Yellow conflict is just a class conflict or a political conflict, but a deep identity crisis, and with the Sangha still being one of the corner stones of Thai society…
That is why i believe that we would need more data on this subject.
Lately i am hearing a lot of rumblings from monks and people connected to temples. In some way it seems inevitable that the Sangha is going to be increasingly dragged into the larger social conflict, especially with Buddha Issara’s very open political and military involvement. Is he just a political attack dog, or does he try to establish himself as a Thammayut attack dog as well? Which, i think, could have quite severe consequences. As you said, the junta appears to be siding with Buddha Issara (or the other way around might be more accurate…?), which may cause ripples beyond Dhammakaya?
So far i am still fishing a bit in the dark, especially as all the English language reporting seems to be concentrated on the Dhammakaya/Thaksin and corruption narrative, while the other contexts are not really reported. Is Thai media reporting different?
Buddhism is just like L’Oreal or Coca-Cola or some brand name nowadays. While some “Academia” can write PhD’s and pontificate for ad nauseum, short of being a vehicle to fool the masses, it does not now signify anything much.
The way the Buddhists of sorts behave nowadays even if you have Zippe-type centrifuge, you would not find Buddha’s teaching. So drop Buddha, get on with fun, and philosophy and whatever one fancies.
Nick, we have observed your sentiments, courage and confidence over many years to support the Thai working class. It is admirable and we’re sure that even Giles has even held you up as a beacon of decency and ultimate respect.
However, we would like to give our take on the “dangerous path” postulated by this text in which we think it has always been this way in Thailand. I would like to recap on the late 1980s when I visited Mcleod Ganj, the spiritual home of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Not that I liked waking up at 5am in the morning, but the puja was somewhat special. And not that his monks were whiter than white, but this man embodied what the Sangha should be: a moral, spiritual embodiment of traditional Buddhist thought and not a segregated, humbling, fighting force.
Not that the HHDL was averse to political game-playing himself with the Chinese, but his everlasting smile, surviving the intolerance of everything had been thrown at him for years, was an elevating experience and to watch him shrug it all off was how a true Buddhist should be.
Then, one of our favourites for Buddhism is Zen master Matsuo Basho’s poetry. Japanese Buddhists believe that one can overcome ignorance through epiphany during deep self-reflection and, in a lovely haiku Basho said in contemplation, while silent in a cave, “I watch a waterfall as one of summer’s observances; the old pond, a frog jumps in – the sound of the water.” Abstract, we agree, but that is because Buddhism to us is as it should be.
And let it be said, by Tolstoy and Niels Bohr, the traditional Jewish, Islamic and Christian religions speak about a creator that holds the world together but to us Buddha represents the fundamental reality and if its elements were separated only for one moment from the world, it would disappear immediately. What is fundamental in quantum physics: particles, waves, fields of force, laws of nature or mindsets; the Buddha understood this over 2,500 years ago.
Quantum physics expresses the key words of complementarity, interaction and entanglement and, according to these concepts, there are no independent but complementary quantum objects; they are at the same time only waves and particles.
But to harmonise our position as spectators and actors in the great drama of existence we should perhaps be mindful that a Buddhist “non-solution” to the fundamental problems of physics is not especially a “dangerous path” but a road to something we and the Thai state should actually embrace.
All the Sangha needs to do is stop its infighting, clear out its Augean Stables and become like the Buddha and quantum objects of itself.
Personally I think the tension between the two orders matters, but only to monks. They are fighting for perk. Thammayut wishes to retain its dominant position while Mahagaya is pushing for ascension, allegedly long stolen by Thammayut. But for outsiders, the tension is about the rise of Dhammagaya which has long been known to be well-connected to Thaksin’s people. The junta sides with Buddha Isara and the forest monk movement, obviously, but it is trying to appear as neutral as possible. Right now, they might delay the nomination for the royal endorsement by citing the disagreement between the two parties.
The tension between the two orders has not completely gone and it is still playing an important role in Sangha Raja appointment. Thammayut is still holding to the rule that Thammayut can govern both Thammayut and Mahanigaya, but not vice versa. This rule derived from the historical fact that the order was founded by King Mongkut and had actually been written into the old Sangha law, which later was repealed. But the past few Sangha Rajas were from Thammayut only.
But I think it is also true that this is also a red/yellow conflict. Dhammagaya is suspected of supporting Thaksin while Buddha Isara and Luang Ta Maha Bua are backing the yellow. Also Dhammagaya is insisting on adhering to the law, no matter how rigid or obsolete it is or how unfavourable the result can be. Buddha Isara asks Prayuth to exercise his special power in intervene. The two different methods can also be observed in politics as well, eh?
Azis, I don’t think there is all that much Islamophobia in the West (or India or China, whose populations overwhelmingly detest Islam) but rather there are a large number of Islamocontemnos. A Latin root so different from -phobe but much more accurate. Please look it up.
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Review of Unequal Thailand
One look at Forbes’ top 50 richest Thais makes Chris Beale’s comment look pretty tepid, nearly meaningless and pedestrian.
Will the doctor evil/richest man in the world meme of vapor which launched Cartalucci and Draitser to ignomy ever die? Methinks not as long as it makes hay and money for a specific political disposition.
Buddhist politics and Thailand’s dangerous path
It would seem you can take the opium from the masses and at least be partially successful.
I saw my post get equal up & down 9/9. Those that will search high & low to “prove” their agenda (That Buddhism is a religion) and the Enlightened ones that know it is an enduring philosophy of life. After all it has endured longer than Christianity/Islam.
I thank the many posters that know we Buddhists are following a tried and tested, evolving philosophy of life. Without guidance from a God.
Our temples will not become churches…
I thank those too, whose eyes are not yet fully open, because I know, one day, you will join us in natures garden, sipping nectar through silver straws…..
Spy planes and Singapore
Both of you read the Radford-Collins Agreement. You both are talking from a basis of no knowledge.
Buddhist politics and Thailand’s dangerous path
I also suspect that the Red Shirts leaders had been strongly and very vehemently defending and blocking the ongoing judicial prosecution of Phra Dhammachayo of wat Dhammakaya because a big slice of this temple’s huge daily donations are being skimmed by the Pheau Thai Party and the Red Shirts leadership.
Buddhist politics and Thailand’s dangerous path
I agree that we need more data. So far, both Thai and English pieces are very scant, not comprehensive. You get more information from gossip leaked from insiders than reading newspapers.
Freedom and independence
Well, we must hope U Turn isn’t pulling the strings!
Buddhist politics and Thailand’s dangerous path
Buddhism is the best righteous path of living life and thats why nowadays many people from worldwide are embracing buddhist views , reading buddha and are standing to preserve buddhism as its basic teachings like liberty equality freedom compassion can save the world from any type of mishappenings…..don’t water any negativity because buddhism is the only last hope to save humanity , nature , animals etc etc……it had been uplifting humanity since from centuries and may the dharma wheel rget motion by all the well wishers……..indian constitution is been written by great buddhist Dr.Ambedkar which is holding india unitedly due to buddhist teachings merged in constitution……….
Buddhist politics and Thailand’s dangerous path
Did Thaksin corrupt Phra Dhamachayo of wat Dhammakaya? Or it was the monk who encouraged and pushed Thaksin to corrupt some more?
Buddhist politics and Thailand’s dangerous path
ups, another mistake smuggled itself in, in the second last paragraph it should read: “The Red/Yellow conflict is *NOT* just a class conflict or a political conflict, but…”
Review of Unequal Thailand
Thaksin’s first “self made” fortune was gained through his monopoly supplying computers to his former employer the Royal Thai Police. There was no proper open tender for this (how typical of Thai “capitalism! ). It is amazing that Dr. Jim Taylor pretends otherwise.
Buddhist politics and Thailand’s dangerous path
I am sorry, but that is a very mistaken view. That may appear so from an urban perspective. But in rural Thailand the temples are still very much one of the three centers of the fabric of society, regardless exposed scandals of misconduct of monks. Therefore political positioning of the Sangha and individual monks or sects matter a lot – not in academic terms, but in very practical terms.
Buddhist politics and Thailand’s dangerous path
I can’t really comment on matters of faith or philosophy. I don’t think the issue is not just infighting within the Sangha, but that the 10 year conflict here in Thailand is inevitably forcing the Sangha also into the arena. Especially in the North and the Northeast the temples are still important parts of the communities, and monks are very influential and at the same time are very close to the people, and naturally share their aspirations and disappointments.
To me it seems that the conflict over the appointment of the sangharaja is very political, on the one hand the Dhammakaya/Thaksin issue used, the corruption narrative, and opposition very clearly allied with Yellow, and given not mentioned affiliation with Thammayut – this might turn into a very problematic situation and escalation. The Red/Yellow conflict is just a class conflict or a political conflict, but a deep identity crisis, and with the Sangha still being one of the corner stones of Thai society…
That is why i believe that we would need more data on this subject.
Buddhist politics and Thailand’s dangerous path
Lately i am hearing a lot of rumblings from monks and people connected to temples. In some way it seems inevitable that the Sangha is going to be increasingly dragged into the larger social conflict, especially with Buddha Issara’s very open political and military involvement. Is he just a political attack dog, or does he try to establish himself as a Thammayut attack dog as well? Which, i think, could have quite severe consequences. As you said, the junta appears to be siding with Buddha Issara (or the other way around might be more accurate…?), which may cause ripples beyond Dhammakaya?
So far i am still fishing a bit in the dark, especially as all the English language reporting seems to be concentrated on the Dhammakaya/Thaksin and corruption narrative, while the other contexts are not really reported. Is Thai media reporting different?
Buddhist politics and Thailand’s dangerous path
Why the royal “we”?
Buddhist politics and Thailand’s dangerous path
Doesn’t matter an iota.
Buddhism is just like L’Oreal or Coca-Cola or some brand name nowadays. While some “Academia” can write PhD’s and pontificate for ad nauseum, short of being a vehicle to fool the masses, it does not now signify anything much.
The way the Buddhists of sorts behave nowadays even if you have Zippe-type centrifuge, you would not find Buddha’s teaching. So drop Buddha, get on with fun, and philosophy and whatever one fancies.
Buddhist politics and Thailand’s dangerous path
Nick, we have observed your sentiments, courage and confidence over many years to support the Thai working class. It is admirable and we’re sure that even Giles has even held you up as a beacon of decency and ultimate respect.
However, we would like to give our take on the “dangerous path” postulated by this text in which we think it has always been this way in Thailand. I would like to recap on the late 1980s when I visited Mcleod Ganj, the spiritual home of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Not that I liked waking up at 5am in the morning, but the puja was somewhat special. And not that his monks were whiter than white, but this man embodied what the Sangha should be: a moral, spiritual embodiment of traditional Buddhist thought and not a segregated, humbling, fighting force.
Not that the HHDL was averse to political game-playing himself with the Chinese, but his everlasting smile, surviving the intolerance of everything had been thrown at him for years, was an elevating experience and to watch him shrug it all off was how a true Buddhist should be.
Then, one of our favourites for Buddhism is Zen master Matsuo Basho’s poetry. Japanese Buddhists believe that one can overcome ignorance through epiphany during deep self-reflection and, in a lovely haiku Basho said in contemplation, while silent in a cave, “I watch a waterfall as one of summer’s observances; the old pond, a frog jumps in – the sound of the water.” Abstract, we agree, but that is because Buddhism to us is as it should be.
And let it be said, by Tolstoy and Niels Bohr, the traditional Jewish, Islamic and Christian religions speak about a creator that holds the world together but to us Buddha represents the fundamental reality and if its elements were separated only for one moment from the world, it would disappear immediately. What is fundamental in quantum physics: particles, waves, fields of force, laws of nature or mindsets; the Buddha understood this over 2,500 years ago.
Quantum physics expresses the key words of complementarity, interaction and entanglement and, according to these concepts, there are no independent but complementary quantum objects; they are at the same time only waves and particles.
But to harmonise our position as spectators and actors in the great drama of existence we should perhaps be mindful that a Buddhist “non-solution” to the fundamental problems of physics is not especially a “dangerous path” but a road to something we and the Thai state should actually embrace.
All the Sangha needs to do is stop its infighting, clear out its Augean Stables and become like the Buddha and quantum objects of itself.
Buddhist politics and Thailand’s dangerous path
Personally I think the tension between the two orders matters, but only to monks. They are fighting for perk. Thammayut wishes to retain its dominant position while Mahagaya is pushing for ascension, allegedly long stolen by Thammayut. But for outsiders, the tension is about the rise of Dhammagaya which has long been known to be well-connected to Thaksin’s people. The junta sides with Buddha Isara and the forest monk movement, obviously, but it is trying to appear as neutral as possible. Right now, they might delay the nomination for the royal endorsement by citing the disagreement between the two parties.
Buddhist politics and Thailand’s dangerous path
The tension between the two orders has not completely gone and it is still playing an important role in Sangha Raja appointment. Thammayut is still holding to the rule that Thammayut can govern both Thammayut and Mahanigaya, but not vice versa. This rule derived from the historical fact that the order was founded by King Mongkut and had actually been written into the old Sangha law, which later was repealed. But the past few Sangha Rajas were from Thammayut only.
But I think it is also true that this is also a red/yellow conflict. Dhammagaya is suspected of supporting Thaksin while Buddha Isara and Luang Ta Maha Bua are backing the yellow. Also Dhammagaya is insisting on adhering to the law, no matter how rigid or obsolete it is or how unfavourable the result can be. Buddha Isara asks Prayuth to exercise his special power in intervene. The two different methods can also be observed in politics as well, eh?
An escapist view of extremism
Azis, I don’t think there is all that much Islamophobia in the West (or India or China, whose populations overwhelmingly detest Islam) but rather there are a large number of Islamocontemnos. A Latin root so different from -phobe but much more accurate. Please look it up.
A state of madness
I am still in Thailand. While the space for open discussion is narrowing, there is still some space left.