According to Chang Noi’s article ‘Acharn Ji sets Khun Samak a history exam’ Samak Sundaravej has been implicated in the 1976 Thammasat massacre and this resulted in a law suit to clear his name. (http://www.geocities.com/changnoi2/jisamak.htm)
At this time (1976) he was MP for Bangkok, Deputy General of the Democrat Party and the Interior Minister. (“The Oyster and the Shell”: Thai Bureaucrats in Politics, by Kamol Somvichian p. 830.*)
He was removed after an outburst that criticized Prime Minister Rajawongse, the media and members of cabinet when General Ayuddhya was removed from his post as Minister of Defence. As a result of this incident Samak was removed from the Democrat Party in September. (Thailand in 1976: Another Defeat for Constitutional Democracy, by Frank C. Darling p. 126 *)
In 1988 as a member of the Prachakorn Thai Party, and at a time of volatile Thai politics, Samak demanded the position of Communications Minister and won it. (Thailand in 1990: Political Tangles, by Scott R. Christensen p.201 *)
In the 2001 elections, Samak blamed the TRT party’s money politics for the loss of Prachakorn’s lower house seats. Samak said “… with that kind of money, you can buy the country.” (Thai Democracy, 2001: Out of Equilibrium, by William F. Case p. 541 *)
Apparently, Samak also had a TV cooking programme called “Chim Pai,Bon Pai” (Tasting It, Mumbling About It). As Mayor of Bangkok, Samak’s development ideas are born of his character which apparently likes to shop at markets and street vendors. (http://www.bangkokpost.net/samak1yr/bangkokian.html)
A healthy democracy is constantly in a state of “cold” civil war; it is from this dynamism that change and progress come.
That’s why calls for “unity,” “harmony, and ” solidarity,” above all, are hallmarks of fascist regimes and bland, necrotic stagnation that accompanies them.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
I think giving Samak the leadership of Phalang Prachachon is another smart political move. “Phalang Prachachon” / Thai Rak Thai would have to win close to, if not more than, the 42% of the vote they got in the NE and N for the referendum – probably more, because you would assume that the campaigning would be much freer than for the referendum. And you would expect that Samak would do a good job in Bangkok – don’t forget that TRT won almost half the Bangkok vote in the April 2006 election. He would also moderate the image the Bangkok middle class has of Phalang Prachachon as a party of Isan and northern villagers, led by former leftists and a billionaire. The name of the party – “Peoples’ Power” – is another smart PR move. The international media will love it after over a year of royalist-military dictatorship.
Result: “Thai Rak Thai” wins the election with an absolute majority. Then it’s pay-back time. If it’s true then Thaksin has played this brilliantly.
The interesting thing is why Samak is going along with it. He’s been very critical of Prem… Maybe he can see the writing on the wall for the monarchy, and wants to be on the winning side when the end comes?
To Jeru, regarding the point ‘lest tax evasion becomes the norm.’
As far as Taksin’s sale of the Shin Corp. goes, did the then PM actually break the law as it then stood? Did the sale take place just after Taksin had ammended the law in order to escape tax liability? I honestly don’t know the answers. Incidentally, I always thought Taksin was a pretty awful PM but corruption didn’t begin with Taksin and it won’t end with the next election.
I am not defending Taksin. I just recoil against the ongoing, utterly one sided, attacks against this fellow. Allowing his defenders a voice would not prevent the truth from emerging so why, here in Thailand, the relentless ‘choreographed’ denouncements? It just smacks of panic in the eyes of a military desperately seeking to justify the overthrow of a democratically elected govt.
Message to the Foreign Correspondents’ Club of Thailand (who hosted Anand’s speech on “the People’s King” 23 August): when are you going to report in the international media what people are saying on many blog sites: the DIRECT involvement of the Palace in the movement to overthrow the democratically-elected Thai Rak Thai government, and the King’s demonstrated support for the dictatorship since September 19th? (On the former, see the interesting discussion about the Palace’s support for the PAD demonstrations on the Fa Dio Kan webboard: [http://www.sameskybooks.org/webboard/show.php?Category=sameskybooks&No=22654 ])
You know that the Thai media can not report such things because of the lese majeste law (which Anand tried hard to defend in his speech). You know that Thais are forbidden from publicly questioning the actions of the king and the royal family.
If you choose to host Palace propagandists giving eulogies about the king can this be taken to mean that the Foreign Correspondents’ Club of Thailand supports royalist dictatorship?
I am not defending Thaksin! I am defending the 1997 constitution! (my comparison of ‘extrajudicial’ killings admittedly was as appalling as your reference to Mugabe in the first place. Obviously they’re all bad apples.. Since when is politics for the innocent?) It is about accountability Jeruchai. Thaksin ought to be held accountable. The Generals also ought to be held accountable for their ‘surgical’ removal of a lung (1997 constitution) that let Thailand breathe.
Lleij Samuel Schwartz : I have no idea what Kissinger thinks, but we do know that he is “pragmatic” and a “realist”, so I guess he can sit down with Anand. But if you go to: http://www.kiasia.org/En/Group_Tier2.asp?GroupTierId=9&SubGroupTier_ID=18
and look at the 2005 annual report for KIAsia, you’ll see Kissinger and Anand. The two of them came together in 2005 to celebrate the achievements of the funding initiatives they had worked on together for KIAsia.
Mugabe, Chen Shui-Bien, Thaksin Shinawatra, Ferdinand Marcos, Suharto and maybe a few more, the elite Corrupt Leaders Club of the World.
These are all dangerous men Grasshopper. All these men were capable of ruining and they did ruin their own country. Thailand was just lucky the Thaksin menace was surgically removed just in time – – lest more thousands were extrajudicially killed, lest criminal corruption becomes the WAY, lest Thailand descends into more divisiveness then anarchy, lest tax evasion becomes the norm what with the PM himself as the role model, lest . . . Thailand is Marcosized or Mugabeed.
Grasshopper murder is murder . . there is no way to mitigate the crime by claiming Thaksin was responsible for lesser body counts. Once a megalomaniac deliberately cold bloodedly murders for some dark lust . . . all other crimes that follow are easier to commit.
I appreciate Grasshopper why you need many glasses of beer to respond and defend Thaksin . . I really do.
The Lese Majeste laws are really terrifying. Can someone please tell me briefly just what these laws actually stipulate? I ask because a while ago I casually asked a Thai colleague to enlighten me on the circumstances surrounding the death of King Rama 8th -a fantastic mystery just waiting for an investigative journalist. I was told in hushed tones that this subject is never to be discussed for fear of arrest -on Lese Majeste?
It was probably just as well that I didn’t inquire whether the several men sentenced to death for involvement in the murder might receive a posthumous amnesty.
Jeruchai: Please do not compare Thaksin with Robert Mugabe. You discredit yourself with comparing over 20,000 Ndebele murdered by North Korean trained agents in Matabeleland at the start of Zanu PF rule with the actions of Thaksin Shinawatra and TRT. Irrespective of the admittedly extreme nature of Thaksin’s “War on Drugs” they do not amount to ethnic discrimination bordering the beginnings of a genocide. Your musings lack foundation. Please postulate with facts rather than out of touch meanderings of Generals who justify their self interested actions with declarations of allegiance to Thai sovereignty.
Also, I think you’ll find that Chen Shui-bien of the Democratic Progressive Party and current Prime Minister of Taiwan retains the majority of support in parliament despite most of his family being convicted of fraud with him facing similar indictment after leaving office. Furthermore, whilst loosing face in the population polls run by the Taipei Times of 2,000 persons (of both KMT and DPP alignment), they indicate that they are prepared for him to see out the remainder of his term.
Oh yes, I’d like to know how exactly he, Thaksin, is a threat??!
Your arguments are very weak Jeruchai. I’ve had a few beers but I still am able to think of something to respond to you with… You must write for the nation ?!
It is nice to see that jeru, the military’s mouthpiece at this and other blogs, is promoting an abti-fascist agenda by opposing Thaksin, Thaksinites, TRT, PPP (and any other group he sees as pro-Thaksin). But what is that agenda? It has usually been the military that has been in the vanguard of fascist authoritarianism in Thailand. Why support these brown shirts who march with so much more precision than the red shirts? Perhaps he supports yellow-shirt liberalism? Or are they fascists as well? Seems liek Thailand is full of them.
I think fascistic is not being facetious at all to describe this People Power Party (PPP) . . . the Red shirts (in lieu of Brown) all marching to the tune of the cult of Thaksin Shinawatra from the proxy leader Samak, to the deputies then to every single Red shirted member.
I have always claimed that the disgraced outlawed Thai Rak Thai party(TRT), now being revived as PPP, had only one mission (ideology would be a mislabel) and that is to serve the interest of Thaksin Shinawatra and his family. If the Shinawatra (political) party crumbles (as it did recently) because of election fraud or criminal corruption . . . that may not an all be unexpected.
Take any political party in the world and you will not find one that would continue to pledge their allegiance to the leader responsible for the disbanding of that party, and a leader facing so many criminal prosecution for the whole gamut from (extrajudicial) murder to tax evasion to election fraud to many shady criminal corruption deals. Unbelievable! Oh well I forgot Zimbabwe’s Mugabe’s party.
Mugabe and Thaksin share other similarity aside from their cult following – – they are both murderous leaders.
What is it about the Thaksin Shinawatra ‘cash’ charisma that keep a hypnotic hold on all his followers? Just look at all of Thaksin’s followers in the blogs: Bangkok Pundit, Tosakan or Fonzi of ThailandJumpedtheShark, Republican, Grasshopper, and of course Mr. Andrew Walker the outraged Aussie academic so concerned about the demise of Thaksin . . . err I mean Thai democracy.
Grasshopper Thaksin Shinawatra is no goat. Thaksin Shinawatra was/(still is) a Godzilan danger and threat to the stability and unity of Thailand.
Jeru needs to get off this idea that there are only two perspectives available in this world – pro-military or pro-Thaksin. I realise that the military leaders he so admires approve of this way of looking at the world of Thai politics, but this is really an infantile perspective on politics. One could easily have seen the Thaksin government as an elected government with an arrogant and dangerous right-wing leader and have railed against his palace-inspired war on drugs and so on. At the same time, one can oppose the palace-military coup and the return to authoritarianism. Equally, one can view Samak as an opportunistic right-wing politician, a man of the past – a bit like the military sponsors – and with a despicable past himself (being involved in some horrible events in 1976-77).
It is well-known that Anand has been a member of the Carlyle Group. He also has close relations with Henry Kissinger. He and Kissinger were behind the funding of the Kenan Institute Asia after the 1997 economic crisis.
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Samak Sundaravej
ED:…..after an outburst that criticized Prime Minister – Seni Pramoj -, the media and members of cabinet
Samak Sundaravej
According to Chang Noi’s article ‘Acharn Ji sets Khun Samak a history exam’ Samak Sundaravej has been implicated in the 1976 Thammasat massacre and this resulted in a law suit to clear his name. (http://www.geocities.com/changnoi2/jisamak.htm)
At this time (1976) he was MP for Bangkok, Deputy General of the Democrat Party and the Interior Minister. (“The Oyster and the Shell”: Thai Bureaucrats in Politics, by Kamol Somvichian p. 830.*)
He was removed after an outburst that criticized Prime Minister Rajawongse, the media and members of cabinet when General Ayuddhya was removed from his post as Minister of Defence. As a result of this incident Samak was removed from the Democrat Party in September. (Thailand in 1976: Another Defeat for Constitutional Democracy, by Frank C. Darling p. 126 *)
In 1988 as a member of the Prachakorn Thai Party, and at a time of volatile Thai politics, Samak demanded the position of Communications Minister and won it. (Thailand in 1990: Political Tangles, by Scott R. Christensen p.201 *)
In the 2001 elections, Samak blamed the TRT party’s money politics for the loss of Prachakorn’s lower house seats. Samak said “… with that kind of money, you can buy the country.” (Thai Democracy, 2001: Out of Equilibrium, by William F. Case p. 541 *)
Apparently, Samak also had a TV cooking programme called “Chim Pai,Bon Pai” (Tasting It, Mumbling About It). As Mayor of Bangkok, Samak’s development ideas are born of his character which apparently likes to shop at markets and street vendors. (http://www.bangkokpost.net/samak1yr/bangkokian.html)
Chang Noi believes Samak’s term as mayor was ineffectual and that in reference to the new PPP, “he has no credentials to serve as leader of anything.” (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/08/06/opinion/opinion_30043804.php)
* articles in jstor.
Big gaps, but its something?
(P/S This blog makes for good procrastination. Maybe other social science areas ought to look into running blogs?…)
Anand’s speech on “the People’s King”
Taking the Carlyle group link further, it should be added that Thaksin was also with this group until he resigned on taking office in 2001. For more on Carlyle see: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Carlyle_Group
A loose cannon in the “war room”
Re:> nganadeeleg
A healthy democracy is constantly in a state of “cold” civil war; it is from this dynamism that change and progress come.
That’s why calls for “unity,” “harmony, and ” solidarity,” above all, are hallmarks of fascist regimes and bland, necrotic stagnation that accompanies them.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
Boys in black
Des
Would be interested to see what you have to say about the use of the Thahan Phran or Or Sor in the South.
A loose cannon in the “war room”
Republican: Sounds like you are hoping for civil war. All this barracking for Thaksin – are you angling for the chief executioners job?
A loose cannon in the “war room”
On Samak and Phalang Prachachon:
I think giving Samak the leadership of Phalang Prachachon is another smart political move. “Phalang Prachachon” / Thai Rak Thai would have to win close to, if not more than, the 42% of the vote they got in the NE and N for the referendum – probably more, because you would assume that the campaigning would be much freer than for the referendum. And you would expect that Samak would do a good job in Bangkok – don’t forget that TRT won almost half the Bangkok vote in the April 2006 election. He would also moderate the image the Bangkok middle class has of Phalang Prachachon as a party of Isan and northern villagers, led by former leftists and a billionaire. The name of the party – “Peoples’ Power” – is another smart PR move. The international media will love it after over a year of royalist-military dictatorship.
Result: “Thai Rak Thai” wins the election with an absolute majority. Then it’s pay-back time. If it’s true then Thaksin has played this brilliantly.
The interesting thing is why Samak is going along with it. He’s been very critical of Prem… Maybe he can see the writing on the wall for the monarchy, and wants to be on the winning side when the end comes?
A loose cannon in the “war room”
To Jeru, regarding the point ‘lest tax evasion becomes the norm.’
As far as Taksin’s sale of the Shin Corp. goes, did the then PM actually break the law as it then stood? Did the sale take place just after Taksin had ammended the law in order to escape tax liability? I honestly don’t know the answers. Incidentally, I always thought Taksin was a pretty awful PM but corruption didn’t begin with Taksin and it won’t end with the next election.
I am not defending Taksin. I just recoil against the ongoing, utterly one sided, attacks against this fellow. Allowing his defenders a voice would not prevent the truth from emerging so why, here in Thailand, the relentless ‘choreographed’ denouncements? It just smacks of panic in the eyes of a military desperately seeking to justify the overthrow of a democratically elected govt.
Anand’s speech on “the People’s King”
Message to the Foreign Correspondents’ Club of Thailand (who hosted Anand’s speech on “the People’s King” 23 August): when are you going to report in the international media what people are saying on many blog sites: the DIRECT involvement of the Palace in the movement to overthrow the democratically-elected Thai Rak Thai government, and the King’s demonstrated support for the dictatorship since September 19th? (On the former, see the interesting discussion about the Palace’s support for the PAD demonstrations on the Fa Dio Kan webboard: [http://www.sameskybooks.org/webboard/show.php?Category=sameskybooks&No=22654 ])
You know that the Thai media can not report such things because of the lese majeste law (which Anand tried hard to defend in his speech). You know that Thais are forbidden from publicly questioning the actions of the king and the royal family.
If you choose to host Palace propagandists giving eulogies about the king can this be taken to mean that the Foreign Correspondents’ Club of Thailand supports royalist dictatorship?
A loose cannon in the “war room”
I am not defending Thaksin! I am defending the 1997 constitution! (my comparison of ‘extrajudicial’ killings admittedly was as appalling as your reference to Mugabe in the first place. Obviously they’re all bad apples.. Since when is politics for the innocent?) It is about accountability Jeruchai. Thaksin ought to be held accountable. The Generals also ought to be held accountable for their ‘surgical’ removal of a lung (1997 constitution) that let Thailand breathe.
…Chen-Shui-bien has not ruined Taiwan!
*@#&!^!
Anand’s speech on “the People’s King”
Lleij Samuel Schwartz : I have no idea what Kissinger thinks, but we do know that he is “pragmatic” and a “realist”, so I guess he can sit down with Anand. But if you go to: http://www.kiasia.org/En/Group_Tier2.asp?GroupTierId=9&SubGroupTier_ID=18
and look at the 2005 annual report for KIAsia, you’ll see Kissinger and Anand. The two of them came together in 2005 to celebrate the achievements of the funding initiatives they had worked on together for KIAsia.
A loose cannon in the “war room”
Mugabe, Chen Shui-Bien, Thaksin Shinawatra, Ferdinand Marcos, Suharto and maybe a few more, the elite Corrupt Leaders Club of the World.
These are all dangerous men Grasshopper. All these men were capable of ruining and they did ruin their own country. Thailand was just lucky the Thaksin menace was surgically removed just in time – – lest more thousands were extrajudicially killed, lest criminal corruption becomes the WAY, lest Thailand descends into more divisiveness then anarchy, lest tax evasion becomes the norm what with the PM himself as the role model, lest . . . Thailand is Marcosized or Mugabeed.
Grasshopper murder is murder . . there is no way to mitigate the crime by claiming Thaksin was responsible for lesser body counts. Once a megalomaniac deliberately cold bloodedly murders for some dark lust . . . all other crimes that follow are easier to commit.
I appreciate Grasshopper why you need many glasses of beer to respond and defend Thaksin . . I really do.
Anand’s speech on “the People’s King”
The Lese Majeste laws are really terrifying. Can someone please tell me briefly just what these laws actually stipulate? I ask because a while ago I casually asked a Thai colleague to enlighten me on the circumstances surrounding the death of King Rama 8th -a fantastic mystery just waiting for an investigative journalist. I was told in hushed tones that this subject is never to be discussed for fear of arrest -on Lese Majeste?
It was probably just as well that I didn’t inquire whether the several men sentenced to death for involvement in the murder might receive a posthumous amnesty.
Anand’s speech on “the People’s King”
Re Historicus>
Huh, that’s interesting. I wonder what Kissinger thought of Anand blaming 9/11 on the Jews.
A loose cannon in the “war room”
Jeruchai: Please do not compare Thaksin with Robert Mugabe. You discredit yourself with comparing over 20,000 Ndebele murdered by North Korean trained agents in Matabeleland at the start of Zanu PF rule with the actions of Thaksin Shinawatra and TRT. Irrespective of the admittedly extreme nature of Thaksin’s “War on Drugs” they do not amount to ethnic discrimination bordering the beginnings of a genocide. Your musings lack foundation. Please postulate with facts rather than out of touch meanderings of Generals who justify their self interested actions with declarations of allegiance to Thai sovereignty.
Also, I think you’ll find that Chen Shui-bien of the Democratic Progressive Party and current Prime Minister of Taiwan retains the majority of support in parliament despite most of his family being convicted of fraud with him facing similar indictment after leaving office. Furthermore, whilst loosing face in the population polls run by the Taipei Times of 2,000 persons (of both KMT and DPP alignment), they indicate that they are prepared for him to see out the remainder of his term.
Oh yes, I’d like to know how exactly he, Thaksin, is a threat??!
Your arguments are very weak Jeruchai. I’ve had a few beers but I still am able to think of something to respond to you with… You must write for the nation ?!
A loose cannon in the “war room”
It is nice to see that jeru, the military’s mouthpiece at this and other blogs, is promoting an abti-fascist agenda by opposing Thaksin, Thaksinites, TRT, PPP (and any other group he sees as pro-Thaksin). But what is that agenda? It has usually been the military that has been in the vanguard of fascist authoritarianism in Thailand. Why support these brown shirts who march with so much more precision than the red shirts? Perhaps he supports yellow-shirt liberalism? Or are they fascists as well? Seems liek Thailand is full of them.
Anand’s speech on “the People’s King”
What do you mean by “member of the private equity firm”? On the board of directors?
A loose cannon in the “war room”
I think fascistic is not being facetious at all to describe this People Power Party (PPP) . . . the Red shirts (in lieu of Brown) all marching to the tune of the cult of Thaksin Shinawatra from the proxy leader Samak, to the deputies then to every single Red shirted member.
I have always claimed that the disgraced outlawed Thai Rak Thai party(TRT), now being revived as PPP, had only one mission (ideology would be a mislabel) and that is to serve the interest of Thaksin Shinawatra and his family. If the Shinawatra (political) party crumbles (as it did recently) because of election fraud or criminal corruption . . . that may not an all be unexpected.
Take any political party in the world and you will not find one that would continue to pledge their allegiance to the leader responsible for the disbanding of that party, and a leader facing so many criminal prosecution for the whole gamut from (extrajudicial) murder to tax evasion to election fraud to many shady criminal corruption deals. Unbelievable! Oh well I forgot Zimbabwe’s Mugabe’s party.
Mugabe and Thaksin share other similarity aside from their cult following – – they are both murderous leaders.
What is it about the Thaksin Shinawatra ‘cash’ charisma that keep a hypnotic hold on all his followers? Just look at all of Thaksin’s followers in the blogs: Bangkok Pundit, Tosakan or Fonzi of ThailandJumpedtheShark, Republican, Grasshopper, and of course Mr. Andrew Walker the outraged Aussie academic so concerned about the demise of Thaksin . . . err I mean Thai democracy.
Grasshopper Thaksin Shinawatra is no goat. Thaksin Shinawatra was/(still is) a Godzilan danger and threat to the stability and unity of Thailand.
A loose cannon in the “war room”
Jeru needs to get off this idea that there are only two perspectives available in this world – pro-military or pro-Thaksin. I realise that the military leaders he so admires approve of this way of looking at the world of Thai politics, but this is really an infantile perspective on politics. One could easily have seen the Thaksin government as an elected government with an arrogant and dangerous right-wing leader and have railed against his palace-inspired war on drugs and so on. At the same time, one can oppose the palace-military coup and the return to authoritarianism. Equally, one can view Samak as an opportunistic right-wing politician, a man of the past – a bit like the military sponsors – and with a despicable past himself (being involved in some horrible events in 1976-77).
Anand’s speech on “the People’s King”
It is well-known that Anand has been a member of the Carlyle Group. He also has close relations with Henry Kissinger. He and Kissinger were behind the funding of the Kenan Institute Asia after the 1997 economic crisis.