fall – actually, since this is a blog focused on South East Asia, one in this region (not the USA) would more commonly be a methamphetamine head rather than a crack head.
Although I may have taken this out of context because you might mean crack as in, ‘ Thaksin cracked his head’ in which case your comment is rather pro-War on Drugs?
jeruchai – My point is facetious because I believe that apathy begins with submission and you have done that with your support of the military government and acceptance that your own laws are being re-written because of one scapegoat. It is quite rich that you tell us of apathy.
Not only is he a member of “network monarchy” but thanks to Nich’s Wikipedia link I notice that Anand was also until quite recently a former member of the private equity firm the Carlyle Group, along with George Bush Sen. , George W. Bush, James Baker, and numerous other global worthies. Apparently Thaksin was also a member until he became PM in 2001. This is out way of my league to analyse, but I remember a curious visit by George Bush Sen. and Barbara to the Palace a couple of months after the coup. The “hidden connections” …
I think this is a significant speech. Anand is a very important guy because not only is he a key figure in McCargo’s “network monarchy” but he has a lot of international credibility.
Sumet Tantiwetchakul (Chaiphatthana Foundation) also gave a major speech a couple of days ago (can anyone post the text? – it was reported very fully on the news Thursday) on “sufficiency economy theory” saying that the big problem today was that too much knowledge from overseas had come into the country which was making Thais “stupid” and leading them to forget morality, Thai culture, etc. etc.
I’m also thinking of the NTSC seminar and the junta’s war room’s tirades against the “western media” and “neo-liberalism”.
Having lost the referendum I think the network is now really spooked that they are losing the game internationally.
All ye Thaksinites do sound despondent and uninspired these days. Even that pompous Republican had been reduced to bloviating the relevance of the Royal mutt! And Tosakan of course repeats his stale boring tale of democracy and the majority vote that only matters, and where is the evidence? . . .
Perhaps you grieve that from perspective it must be really looking very hopeless with that loose canon Samak (a rightwinger of all things) now head of that fascistic sounding People Power Party, comprised of hard-core Red Shirts dependent on Thaksin’s monthly stipends. Even Samak himself admits to beingThaksin’s proxy, and all the PPP executives (which includes those thugs Yongyuth and Newin) were still handpicked by Thaksin from Manchester city.
Hey Republican, Tosakan, BangkokPundit et al – – how can you describe your NEW leader Samak now?
Well things inevitably come out in a silly way if they are not allowed to be expressed in a sensible way. It’s not just doggy stories. It’s also extremist political thinking. Hence the deeply earnest nonsense of politicians such as Samak.
“At this moment in Thailand’s political development a rejection of Thaksin is in effect a vote for network monarchy.”
Pundit can answer for himself (if he so desires).
IMO neither choice is wholly acceptable, particularly in the long run.
Given that choice, at this moment in Thailand’s political development, I would choose a monarchy network over a Thaksin network because I think the latter has less of a conscience and is therefore much more dangerous.
I guess I need to buy them, but does either book deal with the use of non-Thai paramilitaries and militias- like the KMT in the 1960s and 1970s- by the Thai government?
Kissmelon: Goodness me, these rumours are years old and keep getting repeated. Surely there is a need to ask why such speculation is even necessary. At the same time the genius of the speaker is so well hidden that multiple interpretations are made. He must be laughing his old head off at the silliness involved. If he isn’t…. Well, perhaps best not to think about that. In any case, I hope the Thongdaeng shirts are being brought out of storage so that people can show their loyalty. All hail the royal bitch.
I am wondering which examples of the king accepting criticism Anand is thinking of? I’d be interested to know if there are documented cases of the king being criticised based on fact and objectivity and that he has accepted it. I’m sure there must be cases of this, but I need to be reminded.
Serf: I heard the rumours. They are around regularly, but why on earth is it that this is the way things work and that people get in a fuss over dogs and dog rumours. Surely you get an inkling that something is amiss in society?
Not sure what Sidh’s point is. That silliness in the US justifies silliness in Thailand. No, wait, that can’t be it as societies are not comparable…. The doggie stuff in Thailand is silly. What about the story in the press of FuFu at the Oxford and Cambridge bash having a its own place set at the table with the big shots. Really, isn’t this just, well, silly? If it isn’t, then it must be far worse than silly.
Let’s talk about the excorcists family.
A sacred dog usually follow his master at a ritual.
But for a while, it just didn’t show up.
People want an explanation, but they couldn’t ask.
If there is wonder, there should be an explanation for it.
So here comes the rumours, the dog was shot dead by a complusive person.
That person asked something from the master but denied.
He did it to threaten the master.
oh…how sad, poor dog.
As for an allusion of an american husband, you have to think who married Ai-Gan (a mean nickname for american), and has Thai-American children. One of them was blackmailed by bf in the same manner of Paris Hilton many years ago. So master had to excuse that the grandchild dog is American, not Thai. So the dog won’t be promoted to any pedigree, i think.
Reply to Bangkok Pundit: you have a fantastic blogsite, but on this point I’m afraid we may have to agree to disagree.
No doubt in a referendum in which 25 million people have cast their ballots there will be numerous reasons for voting yes, no, informal or staying away. But what I don’t quite understand is why it appears (at least from your short comment) hard for you to accept that some people might actually WANT to vote for Thaksin given the chance. His party had three very big election victories; he was hugely popular primarily due to the appeal of his grass-roots policies; Thailand’s economy recovered and grew relatively rapidly under Thai Rak Thai’s management; “Thaksinomics” received much praise internationally; and Thaksin himself is now the only Thai (Asian?) to have managed to buy an English Premier League football team and lure the former team manager of the English national team as his manager (just consider what that means to the Thai voter: Sven-Goran Eriksson, former manager of England, now works for Thaksin). Not only that, but the former Thai Rak Thai party ran a prominent no-vote campaign. The areas where the no-vote was highest were Thai Rak Thai territory. Thai Rak Thai = Thaksin. QED?
I hope I haven’t misrepresented you, but you seem to have fallen for the fallacy which Somsak Jeamthirasakul calls the р╕кр╕нр╕Зр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Ар╕нр╕▓ position: the rejection of both the royalist-military dictatorship and the rejection of Thaksin. Strategically it is a fallacy, because the only way to defeat the dictatorship and the interests that support it – primarily the king – is through a movement based on the legitimacy of the democratic mandate of the electorate. Before September 19 this electorate was largely controlled by Thai Rak Thai, and even after almost a year of dictatorship the party is still very popular. In terms of one’s own political stance you ought to realize an inconvenient truth here, that is that a rejection of Thaksin amounts to a rejection of the democratic wishes of the majority of the Thai people – under the conditions of a truly free and fair election without interference from the “network”. At this moment in Thailand’s political development a rejection of Thaksin is in effect a vote for network monarchy.
As I say, I hope I have not misinterpreted your position; if so, I will look forward to further debate.
Well, because he is a genius the king’s words can be read at multiple levels. But for me, just have a read of his book on Thong Daeng; isn’t it an allegory of his relationship with the Thai people? When I see people forced to grovel in front of him in prostration I always think of Thong Daeng. Perhaps as people have become less in awe of him because they have been corrupted by Western culture Thong Daeng has become a substitute. He has all the desired qualities: loyalty, obedience, gratitude, and easy to train to boot.
Thanks Awzar, here is a brief summary of Somchai’s presentation based on my notes (which are a bit sketchy): He focussed on the extra-judicial killings during the war on drugs and the events in the south (such as Tak Bai). He emphasised the number that were killed (quoting the figure of 2700 in relation to the war on drugs) and described the brutality of the killings in some detail. He claimed that extrajudicial killing was a direct policy of the Thaksin government – it was systematic and widespread. Like Surat he commented on the lack of international reaction to Thaksin’s breaches of international norms and standards. He called for Thaksin’s prosecution.
I don’t know if Andrew and Nicholas will print this, and I will understand if they don’t, but the rumor I heard, and this was quite a long time ago, was that the CP (Sia O) killed HM’s dog in one of his emotional fits, and to keep it all quiet, the palace replaced Thongdaeng(I refuse to call a dog Khun) with an imposter. After, the king and the CP were no longer on speaking terms.
If this is the rumor everybody is being cryptic about, then I am surprised, because I heard this one quite a long time ago.
IN each society/culture, there are news/events/practices that ‘the others’ see as idiosyncratic, while people in the respective society, culture see as important. This post is merely an updated version of the European colonizers’ observation of the Siamese “white elephant” with negative connotations. Is this meant to put many Thais in their place that we are ‘backwards’ and ‘developing’. But can’t we just see this for what it is – a common human trait, an obsession with people in the limelight? Remember the big news worldwide, taking very significant media space from ‘important’ issues, when Paris Hilton went into jail? Thailand did have its version with Cutaleeya Macintosh’s pregnancy. Maybe we are starting to catch up?
I am probably writing as an ‘insider’ here as I do see the charms of the ‘Jatukarm’ craze (and its recent ‘sale prices’ when the amulet did not save its wearer from a series of accidents)…
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A loose cannon in the “war room”
fall – actually, since this is a blog focused on South East Asia, one in this region (not the USA) would more commonly be a methamphetamine head rather than a crack head.
Although I may have taken this out of context because you might mean crack as in, ‘ Thaksin cracked his head’ in which case your comment is rather pro-War on Drugs?
jeruchai – My point is facetious because I believe that apathy begins with submission and you have done that with your support of the military government and acceptance that your own laws are being re-written because of one scapegoat. It is quite rich that you tell us of apathy.
Anand’s speech on “the People’s King”
Not only is he a member of “network monarchy” but thanks to Nich’s Wikipedia link I notice that Anand was also until quite recently a former member of the private equity firm the Carlyle Group, along with George Bush Sen. , George W. Bush, James Baker, and numerous other global worthies. Apparently Thaksin was also a member until he became PM in 2001. This is out way of my league to analyse, but I remember a curious visit by George Bush Sen. and Barbara to the Palace a couple of months after the coup. The “hidden connections” …
Anand’s speech on “the People’s King”
I think this is a significant speech. Anand is a very important guy because not only is he a key figure in McCargo’s “network monarchy” but he has a lot of international credibility.
Sumet Tantiwetchakul (Chaiphatthana Foundation) also gave a major speech a couple of days ago (can anyone post the text? – it was reported very fully on the news Thursday) on “sufficiency economy theory” saying that the big problem today was that too much knowledge from overseas had come into the country which was making Thais “stupid” and leading them to forget morality, Thai culture, etc. etc.
I’m also thinking of the NTSC seminar and the junta’s war room’s tirades against the “western media” and “neo-liberalism”.
Having lost the referendum I think the network is now really spooked that they are losing the game internationally.
A loose cannon in the “war room”
…fascistic sounding People Power Party…
Jeru does have a point. Which crack head come up with the name semi-facist/socialist PPP?
A loose cannon in the “war room”
All ye Thaksinites do sound despondent and uninspired these days. Even that pompous Republican had been reduced to bloviating the relevance of the Royal mutt! And Tosakan of course repeats his stale boring tale of democracy and the majority vote that only matters, and where is the evidence? . . .
Perhaps you grieve that from perspective it must be really looking very hopeless with that loose canon Samak (a rightwinger of all things) now head of that fascistic sounding People Power Party, comprised of hard-core Red Shirts dependent on Thaksin’s monthly stipends. Even Samak himself admits to beingThaksin’s proxy, and all the PPP executives (which includes those thugs Yongyuth and Newin) were still handpicked by Thaksin from Manchester city.
Hey Republican, Tosakan, BangkokPundit et al – – how can you describe your NEW leader Samak now?
King denies royal rumour
Well things inevitably come out in a silly way if they are not allowed to be expressed in a sensible way. It’s not just doggy stories. It’s also extremist political thinking. Hence the deeply earnest nonsense of politicians such as Samak.
14.7 out of 45. An endorsement for the junta?
“At this moment in Thailand’s political development a rejection of Thaksin is in effect a vote for network monarchy.”
Pundit can answer for himself (if he so desires).
IMO neither choice is wholly acceptable, particularly in the long run.
Given that choice, at this moment in Thailand’s political development, I would choose a monarchy network over a Thaksin network because I think the latter has less of a conscience and is therefore much more dangerous.
Anand’s speech on “the People’s King”
Nor is he by royal convention in a position to answer or respond to these critics
So the real story will never be told?
Boys in black
I guess I need to buy them, but does either book deal with the use of non-Thai paramilitaries and militias- like the KMT in the 1960s and 1970s- by the Thai government?
Thaksin skeptic
Kissmelon: Goodness me, these rumours are years old and keep getting repeated. Surely there is a need to ask why such speculation is even necessary. At the same time the genius of the speaker is so well hidden that multiple interpretations are made. He must be laughing his old head off at the silliness involved. If he isn’t…. Well, perhaps best not to think about that. In any case, I hope the Thongdaeng shirts are being brought out of storage so that people can show their loyalty. All hail the royal bitch.
Anand’s speech on “the People’s King”
I am wondering which examples of the king accepting criticism Anand is thinking of? I’d be interested to know if there are documented cases of the king being criticised based on fact and objectivity and that he has accepted it. I’m sure there must be cases of this, but I need to be reminded.
King denies royal rumour
Serf: I heard the rumours. They are around regularly, but why on earth is it that this is the way things work and that people get in a fuss over dogs and dog rumours. Surely you get an inkling that something is amiss in society?
Not sure what Sidh’s point is. That silliness in the US justifies silliness in Thailand. No, wait, that can’t be it as societies are not comparable…. The doggie stuff in Thailand is silly. What about the story in the press of FuFu at the Oxford and Cambridge bash having a its own place set at the table with the big shots. Really, isn’t this just, well, silly? If it isn’t, then it must be far worse than silly.
Thaksin skeptic
u guys here don’t get a clue.
Let’s talk about the excorcists family.
A sacred dog usually follow his master at a ritual.
But for a while, it just didn’t show up.
People want an explanation, but they couldn’t ask.
If there is wonder, there should be an explanation for it.
So here comes the rumours, the dog was shot dead by a complusive person.
That person asked something from the master but denied.
He did it to threaten the master.
oh…how sad, poor dog.
As for an allusion of an american husband, you have to think who married Ai-Gan (a mean nickname for american), and has Thai-American children. One of them was blackmailed by bf in the same manner of Paris Hilton many years ago. So master had to excuse that the grandchild dog is American, not Thai. So the dog won’t be promoted to any pedigree, i think.
King denies royal rumour
Not really! This is more about the suitability of the apparent succession.
14.7 out of 45. An endorsement for the junta?
Reply to Bangkok Pundit: you have a fantastic blogsite, but on this point I’m afraid we may have to agree to disagree.
No doubt in a referendum in which 25 million people have cast their ballots there will be numerous reasons for voting yes, no, informal or staying away. But what I don’t quite understand is why it appears (at least from your short comment) hard for you to accept that some people might actually WANT to vote for Thaksin given the chance. His party had three very big election victories; he was hugely popular primarily due to the appeal of his grass-roots policies; Thailand’s economy recovered and grew relatively rapidly under Thai Rak Thai’s management; “Thaksinomics” received much praise internationally; and Thaksin himself is now the only Thai (Asian?) to have managed to buy an English Premier League football team and lure the former team manager of the English national team as his manager (just consider what that means to the Thai voter: Sven-Goran Eriksson, former manager of England, now works for Thaksin). Not only that, but the former Thai Rak Thai party ran a prominent no-vote campaign. The areas where the no-vote was highest were Thai Rak Thai territory. Thai Rak Thai = Thaksin. QED?
I hope I haven’t misrepresented you, but you seem to have fallen for the fallacy which Somsak Jeamthirasakul calls the р╕кр╕нр╕Зр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Ар╕нр╕▓ position: the rejection of both the royalist-military dictatorship and the rejection of Thaksin. Strategically it is a fallacy, because the only way to defeat the dictatorship and the interests that support it – primarily the king – is through a movement based on the legitimacy of the democratic mandate of the electorate. Before September 19 this electorate was largely controlled by Thai Rak Thai, and even after almost a year of dictatorship the party is still very popular. In terms of one’s own political stance you ought to realize an inconvenient truth here, that is that a rejection of Thaksin amounts to a rejection of the democratic wishes of the majority of the Thai people – under the conditions of a truly free and fair election without interference from the “network”. At this moment in Thailand’s political development a rejection of Thaksin is in effect a vote for network monarchy.
As I say, I hope I have not misinterpreted your position; if so, I will look forward to further debate.
Thaksin skeptic
Well, because he is a genius the king’s words can be read at multiple levels. But for me, just have a read of his book on Thong Daeng; isn’t it an allegory of his relationship with the Thai people? When I see people forced to grovel in front of him in prostration I always think of Thong Daeng. Perhaps as people have become less in awe of him because they have been corrupted by Western culture Thong Daeng has become a substitute. He has all the desired qualities: loyalty, obedience, gratitude, and easy to train to boot.
A loose cannon in the “war room”
Thanks Awzar, here is a brief summary of Somchai’s presentation based on my notes (which are a bit sketchy): He focussed on the extra-judicial killings during the war on drugs and the events in the south (such as Tak Bai). He emphasised the number that were killed (quoting the figure of 2700 in relation to the war on drugs) and described the brutality of the killings in some detail. He claimed that extrajudicial killing was a direct policy of the Thaksin government – it was systematic and widespread. Like Surat he commented on the lack of international reaction to Thaksin’s breaches of international norms and standards. He called for Thaksin’s prosecution.
King denies royal rumour
I don’t know if Andrew and Nicholas will print this, and I will understand if they don’t, but the rumor I heard, and this was quite a long time ago, was that the CP (Sia O) killed HM’s dog in one of his emotional fits, and to keep it all quiet, the palace replaced Thongdaeng(I refuse to call a dog Khun) with an imposter. After, the king and the CP were no longer on speaking terms.
If this is the rumor everybody is being cryptic about, then I am surprised, because I heard this one quite a long time ago.
King denies royal rumour
IN each society/culture, there are news/events/practices that ‘the others’ see as idiosyncratic, while people in the respective society, culture see as important. This post is merely an updated version of the European colonizers’ observation of the Siamese “white elephant” with negative connotations. Is this meant to put many Thais in their place that we are ‘backwards’ and ‘developing’. But can’t we just see this for what it is – a common human trait, an obsession with people in the limelight? Remember the big news worldwide, taking very significant media space from ‘important’ issues, when Paris Hilton went into jail? Thailand did have its version with Cutaleeya Macintosh’s pregnancy. Maybe we are starting to catch up?
I am probably writing as an ‘insider’ here as I do see the charms of the ‘Jatukarm’ craze (and its recent ‘sale prices’ when the amulet did not save its wearer from a series of accidents)…
King denies royal rumour
Offhand, I seem to remember hearing this rumor well over one year ago.