Matt (Lost boy) over at whatismatt.com raises an interesting point when he says he thinks the protesters are leaderless because Thaksin cannot come back.
It will be interesting to see if a real leader emerges – personally, I don’t think Thaksin is finished yet, and have the feeling that he
is just waiting for enough trouble to be stirred up so that the country will welcome him back as the shining knight – I hope I’m wrong!
Thailand is dominated by personality politics and looks for a white knight as the saviour, and it’s interesting to me that a centre right party (TRT) can have more appeal to the rural masses than a supposedly centre left party (Democrats)
Being seen to be ‘clean’ & have integrity comes a sorry last to a strong personality.
Not discounting the better networks that TRT has in the north/northeast, but it sure helps to have a personality leader and it doesn’t hurt if he is also very wealthy.
Notice many protesters are calling specifically for the return of Thaksin, rather than the 111 TRT party executives.
The scene seems ripe for a party with populist policies (and appropriate taxes on the rich to pay for them) but I wonder can the Democrat Party make ground with ‘poor friendly’ policies, or is it beyond them to achieve mass appeal in the north because they don’t have the right personality leader, and many are still loyal to the Thaksin personality no matter what.
Kremlinology, yes, that is actually a good comparison. The problem is, unlike for the Soviet Union during the Cold War, there are few Western scholar-analysts of Thailand who are trained in Chakriology. Most of them seem to become seduced by the pomp and ceremony of the Palace, or even worse, by “Thai culture”, ie. feudalism.
Vichai: Just as I spent hours observing the Sondhi protests, I spent five hours last Sunday on Sanam Luang, and then marched to the army headquarters with the protestors. I left at 23.30. This is the background for my caution not merely to disqualify participants as “hired thugs.” This approach might well lead to misjudgments. Certainly, the social composition of the participants was not as middle-class as it was with Sondhi (this also “shocked” Kraisak, who is more used to “well-behaved” middle-class people).
As for the numbers, the stage was set in the middle of Sanam Luang. Of the space occupied by the protestors, more than 25% was quite full, while the rest was more sparsely populated. Comparing this protest with what I saw at the PAD rallies around Government House, I would guess that this Sunday rally had more people in attendance. Not all of them, though, walked down Rajadamnoen Avenue to the Army.
I bet a lot of the rural masses will vote for the draft constitution because they are fed up with politics and want to get a leader in place with an actual mandate to make long-term decisions.
I doubt if a strong leader can rise to the fore in the current state of divisive politics, what will result is probably more of a reconciliation leader to heal the divisive politics. A comeback by the TRT and Thaksin would probably lead to a repeat of 2006 and would probably just lead to an eternal political see-saw putting economic progress on hold again.
(Strong leaders have worked in other Asian economies but they had industrial policies for development, not just massive cash handouts and subsidies to consolidate power over the critical rural electorate, they rationed credit to export industries, they didn’t just swing the doors open to debt, foreign consumer credit, more TVs, cars, and short-term thinking.)
IMHO the interesting question is what it would take to transform the draft constitution into a Peoples’ Constitution sometime in the future when things have cooled down a bit, cooled down a bit being what the draft constitution seems geared to accomplish.
It’s not just with the dissenters that one has to read between the lines. In the past year, Thai political analysis has grown to resemble Kremlinology. This is in addition to the “Chakriology,” analyists of the extremely opqaue palace must engage in when considering the role of the monarchy.
To Historicus (#7): The only reason I continue to point out the truth of ignorance in the electorate is because it is the rural masses that have the real power at election time – I have never stated that they are the only ones that need some education.
The fact is virtually the whole system is corrupt from the top down.
People like you, Andrew, Republican etc need to consider this question:
Will it be easier to change the ways of those in power, or those who have the power to put them there?
Much of the drama over the last 2 years could have been avoided if TRT had acted like a legitimate politcial party instead of an autocracy.
The ”Octoberists” have done more than roll over to Thaksin, they have bent over to him.
Thanks Roger. I’m cautious about the distinction between “old” and “new” ethnic systems but would be interested to hear more about how you would describe the “old” system.
[…] far as I know there is still no word on investigations into the case of Thailand’s most famous conservation forest encroacher – Prime Minister Surayud. But some of his less rich and powerful co-accused will be appearing in […]
It’s rumor about Monarchy had conflict with Thaksin or not loyal to the King, in our country , Thais would like to gossip about their monarchy , so, the gang which behind the scene of these political crisis have known this loophole and used it to discredit to Thaksin , they have been tried to instigate since the first term of Thaksin ‘s gov.
In a dictatorship, because of the curtailment of free speech a great deal of communication among dissenters takes place by means of “reading between the lines”, oblique reference, metaphor, and the use of certain symbols understood by both parties whose implied meaning can easily be denied when required. For example, fans of the old Midnight University webboard would be familiar with the “Lord of the Rings” version of Thai politics. It doesn’t take too much imagination to guess who Sauron was, where Mordor is located, why Sauron and his Nazguls wanted the ring of power (“one ring to rule them all and in the darkness bind them”), and why the hobbit had to destroy the ring (with Gandalf’s help) in order to end Sauron’s power, even though Frodo was himself deeply held in the ring’s power. In politics, gollums come in useful sometimes.
The problem of course is that one can never be sure whether one has read too much into what appears to be a symbolic communication, and the possibility for miscommunication is high. At other times, however, the meaning is crystal clear. Like the timing of the protesters’ planned “big march” on Army Headquarters on 24 June – the day of the overthrow of the absolute monarchy in 1932.
I just heard about another interesting symbolic reference in relation to the rally at Sanam Luang. Am I reading too much into this? Usually when rallies are held at Sanam Luang the stage is set up at the Pin Klao bridge end of Sanam Luang, facing the Grand Palace, so that the speaker’s backs are effectively facing away from the Democracy monument further up Ratchadamnoen Road, and towards the Grand Palace. I understand that last night the protest organizers at Sanam Luang set up the stage at the other end of Sanam Luang, so that the speakers had their backs to the Grand Palace, and were facing more in the direction of the Democracy Monument. Significant?
Reply to James H.: not that I know of. But Michael Nelson has just published the first article (a working paper) in English that I am aware of that raises the problem that the anti-Thaksin movement posed for academics, intellectuals and activists supposedly committed to “democratic” ideals, in which he refers to the political positions of numerous “Octoberists”: “‘People’s Sector Politics’ (Kanmueang Phak Prachachon) in Thailand: Problems of Democracy in Ousting Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra” (Working Paper Series No. 87, Southeast Asia Research Centre, City University of Hong Kong, May 2007).
To my knowledge the attack by a number of Thai academics on anti-Thaksin “Octoberists” on websites like Midnight University and Fa Dio Kan dates back as far as early 2006 – soon after the King’s Dec 4 2005 speech which gave the green light to the anti-Thaksin movement. The attack is continuing and I would argue stronger than it was 18 months ago. The key figure is Somsak Jeamthirasakul.
It is not just the road construction that is complicated by local political negotiations. Most of the rich natural resources mentioned in the article are also in the ethnic minority areas.
Srithanonchai you overstate the numbers . . . there were approximately 10,000 (according to the news) hired TRT thugs, not 20,000. Or maybe 20,000 thugs were indeed hired by Thaksin but only 10,000 showed up – you should know Srithanonchai being the TRT insider you hint you are.
If I personally believe those at Sanam Luang hangers-on were Thaksin\’s thugs for hire, it is only because thuggery had been Thaksin\’s calling card when he is cornered (in case people forget, I remind the forum of Thaksin\’s thugs attacking The Nation and The Manager headquarters during his last panic days just before the coup). And I may be forgiven to presume that those very same thugs and troublemakers are very likely back on the streets again to do malicious assignments for Thaksin, who imust now feel even more cornered with criminal proceedings threatening to not only reduce his considerable ill-gotten wealth by a third (for taxes), but jail time too for the election fraud Thaksin masterminded in April-06.
What I think the various groups that are organizing the Sanam Luang protests should do, if they’re smart and if it is possible politically, is to make the rallying call NOT a call for the return of Thaksin, or “we love Thaksin”, but a call for the immediate removal of the CNS, the return to the 1997 Constitution (possibly with the promise of a revision of the Constitution by a democratically elected drafting panel) and elections as soon as possible under the 1997 Constitution, which was abrogated illegitimately by the coup of September 19. What they should NOT do (if they are smart) is to make this appear as a stage act to invite Thaksin back through mob politics. This will alienate the Bangkok middle class which, as fed up as they are with the CNS (whose incompetence is starting to affect their own economic interests with the downturn in the Thai economy), still regard Thaksin as the spawn of the devil. This strategy would open the way to many more groups willingly joining the movement to oust the CNS, and hence lessening the likelihood of bloodshed. But protests organized around the call for Thaksin’s return can only lead to confrontation and violence. What most groups (with the exception of the PAD and their supporters, especially the Palace) would be willing to rally around is fully free and fair democratic elections in which ALL parties (including Thai Rak Thai) are free to compete. The problem, as I mentioned in an earlier post, is that sections of the Thai Rak Thai voter base may not be willing to compromise, given the way they have been treated over the last 9 months. But if the Thai Rak Thai leadership is smart this is the way they should play it.
To my mind there are two principles which the Bangkok middle class, many academics, the media and the NGOs, MUST accept for Thailand’s politics to advance in a rational way: that (i) political legitimacy can ONLY come from democratic elections; and (ii) the only form of economy, for better or for worse, that can survive in today’s globalized world economy is a free market, capitalist economy. “Sufficiency Economy” is code for the rejection of capitalism and the culture that it produces, as well as the feudal, pre-capitalist culture that it inevitably destroys. This is a truth that the Bangkok intelligentsia and NGOs still can not accept, which explains both their rejection of Thaksin and their tolerance so far of the CNS. An important reason why they can not accept these two principles is that if accepted they will definitely lead to the end of the monarchy’s influence in Thailand’s political economy. This explains why the monarchy and its allies are fighting so hard with their yellow shirts, their farcical sufficiency economy theory and their “khon di” morality. That is, they are fighting with all the tools of the “superstructure” which they control, because they have lost control of the “base” to Thaksin.
#9 The PAD also had paymasters. “Silly ex-TRT” — This probably underestimates the genuine feelings of most of the participants. One cannot reduce this protest to 20,000 hired thugs.
Groundhog Day: Elections are scheduled for a date later in the year but the worry is whether peace & unity will be maintained until that date. No we’re not in June-06, we’re in June-07.
By using undemocractic means to oust a government (rather than persist in the ouster of Thaksin by legal means) the yellowshirts have really painted themselves (and the rest of the country, including HMK) into a corner and many now belatedly beginning to realise it. Violence is coming, I’m afraid, and this time another coup ain’t going to defuse the situation but in fact will make matters worse. I see another groundhog day coming: May 1997.
The incompetence of this CNS knows no end: this latest reported in BkkPost:
“The junta’s official spokesman said the military has promised that if the proposed constitution is defeated at the upcoming referendum, the CNS will use a revised version of the 1997 constitution as the new charter, in order to allow general elections to be held on time”.
These guys are so useless they cannot organise a drink in a bar or a f**k in a brothel, let alone run a dictatorship.
Oh silly Republican . . . you carry on with your noxious diatribe against monarchs, generals, academics and the so-called elites, because they have rejected Thaksin Shinawatra, The Corrupter?
Silly man. For all your silly long paragraphs professing sedetious doctrines . . . it all comes down to your attachment to Thaksin Shinawatra. You might as well join those silly ex-TRT men at Sanam Luang – – anti-coup but mainly pro-Thaksin, their paymaster.
You are truly a silly man Republican. Your politics only orbit around that one silly speeding ticket you want served by the corrupt policeman to the royal driver of the speeding Thai royal motorcade. Republican . . if you remove the policeman’s cap you should have recognized, that corrupt policeman was no other than Thaksin Shinawatra.
Andrew, I agree it┬┤s not easy to leave ethnicty behind, especially when the government itself promotes awareness of (artificial?) ethnic categories and most people are still to maintain a distinct ethnic identity even without the help of that promotion… My idea is that there is an old ethnic system (the one developed by the Lue themselves ago long ago) and a new one that the CCP etc. has been trying to impose since the 1950s. These can be maybe described as two ideal systems, the number of possibilities to be found between them, infinite.
What about it? (sorry for insisting on ethnicity!)
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Will rural voters be “confused to death”?
Matt (Lost boy) over at whatismatt.com raises an interesting point when he says he thinks the protesters are leaderless because Thaksin cannot come back.
It will be interesting to see if a real leader emerges – personally, I don’t think Thaksin is finished yet, and have the feeling that he
is just waiting for enough trouble to be stirred up so that the country will welcome him back as the shining knight – I hope I’m wrong!
Thailand is dominated by personality politics and looks for a white knight as the saviour, and it’s interesting to me that a centre right party (TRT) can have more appeal to the rural masses than a supposedly centre left party (Democrats)
Being seen to be ‘clean’ & have integrity comes a sorry last to a strong personality.
Not discounting the better networks that TRT has in the north/northeast, but it sure helps to have a personality leader and it doesn’t hurt if he is also very wealthy.
Notice many protesters are calling specifically for the return of Thaksin, rather than the 111 TRT party executives.
The scene seems ripe for a party with populist policies (and appropriate taxes on the rich to pay for them) but I wonder can the Democrat Party make ground with ‘poor friendly’ policies, or is it beyond them to achieve mass appeal in the north because they don’t have the right personality leader, and many are still loyal to the Thaksin personality no matter what.
Erasing Thaksin’s “anomalies”
Kremlinology, yes, that is actually a good comparison. The problem is, unlike for the Soviet Union during the Cold War, there are few Western scholar-analysts of Thailand who are trained in Chakriology. Most of them seem to become seduced by the pomp and ceremony of the Palace, or even worse, by “Thai culture”, ie. feudalism.
Will rural voters be “confused to death”?
Vichai: Just as I spent hours observing the Sondhi protests, I spent five hours last Sunday on Sanam Luang, and then marched to the army headquarters with the protestors. I left at 23.30. This is the background for my caution not merely to disqualify participants as “hired thugs.” This approach might well lead to misjudgments. Certainly, the social composition of the participants was not as middle-class as it was with Sondhi (this also “shocked” Kraisak, who is more used to “well-behaved” middle-class people).
As for the numbers, the stage was set in the middle of Sanam Luang. Of the space occupied by the protestors, more than 25% was quite full, while the rest was more sparsely populated. Comparing this protest with what I saw at the PAD rallies around Government House, I would guess that this Sunday rally had more people in attendance. Not all of them, though, walked down Rajadamnoen Avenue to the Army.
Will rural voters be “confused to death”?
I bet a lot of the rural masses will vote for the draft constitution because they are fed up with politics and want to get a leader in place with an actual mandate to make long-term decisions.
I doubt if a strong leader can rise to the fore in the current state of divisive politics, what will result is probably more of a reconciliation leader to heal the divisive politics. A comeback by the TRT and Thaksin would probably lead to a repeat of 2006 and would probably just lead to an eternal political see-saw putting economic progress on hold again.
(Strong leaders have worked in other Asian economies but they had industrial policies for development, not just massive cash handouts and subsidies to consolidate power over the critical rural electorate, they rationed credit to export industries, they didn’t just swing the doors open to debt, foreign consumer credit, more TVs, cars, and short-term thinking.)
IMHO the interesting question is what it would take to transform the draft constitution into a Peoples’ Constitution sometime in the future when things have cooled down a bit, cooled down a bit being what the draft constitution seems geared to accomplish.
Erasing Thaksin’s “anomalies”
Re: 32…
It’s not just with the dissenters that one has to read between the lines. In the past year, Thai political analysis has grown to resemble Kremlinology. This is in addition to the “Chakriology,” analyists of the extremely opqaue palace must engage in when considering the role of the monarchy.
Will rural voters be “confused to death”?
To Historicus (#7): The only reason I continue to point out the truth of ignorance in the electorate is because it is the rural masses that have the real power at election time – I have never stated that they are the only ones that need some education.
The fact is virtually the whole system is corrupt from the top down.
People like you, Andrew, Republican etc need to consider this question:
Will it be easier to change the ways of those in power, or those who have the power to put them there?
Much of the drama over the last 2 years could have been avoided if TRT had acted like a legitimate politcial party instead of an autocracy.
The ”Octoberists” have done more than roll over to Thaksin, they have bent over to him.
Rethinking Sipsongpanna
Thanks Roger. I’m cautious about the distinction between “old” and “new” ethnic systems but would be interested to hear more about how you would describe the “old” system.
Surayud’s conservation zone
[…] far as I know there is still no word on investigations into the case of Thailand’s most famous conservation forest encroacher – Prime Minister Surayud. But some of his less rich and powerful co-accused will be appearing in […]
Erasing Thaksin’s “anomalies”
It’s rumor about Monarchy had conflict with Thaksin or not loyal to the King, in our country , Thais would like to gossip about their monarchy , so, the gang which behind the scene of these political crisis have known this loophole and used it to discredit to Thaksin , they have been tried to instigate since the first term of Thaksin ‘s gov.
Erasing Thaksin’s “anomalies”
In a dictatorship, because of the curtailment of free speech a great deal of communication among dissenters takes place by means of “reading between the lines”, oblique reference, metaphor, and the use of certain symbols understood by both parties whose implied meaning can easily be denied when required. For example, fans of the old Midnight University webboard would be familiar with the “Lord of the Rings” version of Thai politics. It doesn’t take too much imagination to guess who Sauron was, where Mordor is located, why Sauron and his Nazguls wanted the ring of power (“one ring to rule them all and in the darkness bind them”), and why the hobbit had to destroy the ring (with Gandalf’s help) in order to end Sauron’s power, even though Frodo was himself deeply held in the ring’s power. In politics, gollums come in useful sometimes.
The problem of course is that one can never be sure whether one has read too much into what appears to be a symbolic communication, and the possibility for miscommunication is high. At other times, however, the meaning is crystal clear. Like the timing of the protesters’ planned “big march” on Army Headquarters on 24 June – the day of the overthrow of the absolute monarchy in 1932.
I just heard about another interesting symbolic reference in relation to the rally at Sanam Luang. Am I reading too much into this? Usually when rallies are held at Sanam Luang the stage is set up at the Pin Klao bridge end of Sanam Luang, facing the Grand Palace, so that the speaker’s backs are effectively facing away from the Democracy monument further up Ratchadamnoen Road, and towards the Grand Palace. I understand that last night the protest organizers at Sanam Luang set up the stage at the other end of Sanam Luang, so that the speakers had their backs to the Grand Palace, and were facing more in the direction of the Democracy Monument. Significant?
Erasing Thaksin’s “anomalies”
Reply to James H.: not that I know of. But Michael Nelson has just published the first article (a working paper) in English that I am aware of that raises the problem that the anti-Thaksin movement posed for academics, intellectuals and activists supposedly committed to “democratic” ideals, in which he refers to the political positions of numerous “Octoberists”: “‘People’s Sector Politics’ (Kanmueang Phak Prachachon) in Thailand: Problems of Democracy in Ousting Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra” (Working Paper Series No. 87, Southeast Asia Research Centre, City University of Hong Kong, May 2007).
To my knowledge the attack by a number of Thai academics on anti-Thaksin “Octoberists” on websites like Midnight University and Fa Dio Kan dates back as far as early 2006 – soon after the King’s Dec 4 2005 speech which gave the green light to the anti-Thaksin movement. The attack is continuing and I would argue stronger than it was 18 months ago. The key figure is Somsak Jeamthirasakul.
Mekong Currents: The Burma road to regional integration
It is not just the road construction that is complicated by local political negotiations. Most of the rich natural resources mentioned in the article are also in the ethnic minority areas.
Will rural voters be “confused to death”?
Srithanonchai you overstate the numbers . . . there were approximately 10,000 (according to the news) hired TRT thugs, not 20,000. Or maybe 20,000 thugs were indeed hired by Thaksin but only 10,000 showed up – you should know Srithanonchai being the TRT insider you hint you are.
If I personally believe those at Sanam Luang hangers-on were Thaksin\’s thugs for hire, it is only because thuggery had been Thaksin\’s calling card when he is cornered (in case people forget, I remind the forum of Thaksin\’s thugs attacking The Nation and The Manager headquarters during his last panic days just before the coup). And I may be forgiven to presume that those very same thugs and troublemakers are very likely back on the streets again to do malicious assignments for Thaksin, who imust now feel even more cornered with criminal proceedings threatening to not only reduce his considerable ill-gotten wealth by a third (for taxes), but jail time too for the election fraud Thaksin masterminded in April-06.
Will rural voters be “confused to death”?
What I think the various groups that are organizing the Sanam Luang protests should do, if they’re smart and if it is possible politically, is to make the rallying call NOT a call for the return of Thaksin, or “we love Thaksin”, but a call for the immediate removal of the CNS, the return to the 1997 Constitution (possibly with the promise of a revision of the Constitution by a democratically elected drafting panel) and elections as soon as possible under the 1997 Constitution, which was abrogated illegitimately by the coup of September 19. What they should NOT do (if they are smart) is to make this appear as a stage act to invite Thaksin back through mob politics. This will alienate the Bangkok middle class which, as fed up as they are with the CNS (whose incompetence is starting to affect their own economic interests with the downturn in the Thai economy), still regard Thaksin as the spawn of the devil. This strategy would open the way to many more groups willingly joining the movement to oust the CNS, and hence lessening the likelihood of bloodshed. But protests organized around the call for Thaksin’s return can only lead to confrontation and violence. What most groups (with the exception of the PAD and their supporters, especially the Palace) would be willing to rally around is fully free and fair democratic elections in which ALL parties (including Thai Rak Thai) are free to compete. The problem, as I mentioned in an earlier post, is that sections of the Thai Rak Thai voter base may not be willing to compromise, given the way they have been treated over the last 9 months. But if the Thai Rak Thai leadership is smart this is the way they should play it.
To my mind there are two principles which the Bangkok middle class, many academics, the media and the NGOs, MUST accept for Thailand’s politics to advance in a rational way: that (i) political legitimacy can ONLY come from democratic elections; and (ii) the only form of economy, for better or for worse, that can survive in today’s globalized world economy is a free market, capitalist economy. “Sufficiency Economy” is code for the rejection of capitalism and the culture that it produces, as well as the feudal, pre-capitalist culture that it inevitably destroys. This is a truth that the Bangkok intelligentsia and NGOs still can not accept, which explains both their rejection of Thaksin and their tolerance so far of the CNS. An important reason why they can not accept these two principles is that if accepted they will definitely lead to the end of the monarchy’s influence in Thailand’s political economy. This explains why the monarchy and its allies are fighting so hard with their yellow shirts, their farcical sufficiency economy theory and their “khon di” morality. That is, they are fighting with all the tools of the “superstructure” which they control, because they have lost control of the “base” to Thaksin.
Will rural voters be “confused to death”?
#9 The PAD also had paymasters. “Silly ex-TRT” — This probably underestimates the genuine feelings of most of the participants. One cannot reduce this protest to 20,000 hired thugs.
Erasing Thaksin’s “anomalies”
To Republican re 29: got any english language sources on the split in the Octoberists?
Will rural voters be “confused to death”?
Groundhog Day: Elections are scheduled for a date later in the year but the worry is whether peace & unity will be maintained until that date. No we’re not in June-06, we’re in June-07.
By using undemocractic means to oust a government (rather than persist in the ouster of Thaksin by legal means) the yellowshirts have really painted themselves (and the rest of the country, including HMK) into a corner and many now belatedly beginning to realise it. Violence is coming, I’m afraid, and this time another coup ain’t going to defuse the situation but in fact will make matters worse. I see another groundhog day coming: May 1997.
Will rural voters be “confused to death”?
The incompetence of this CNS knows no end: this latest reported in BkkPost:
“The junta’s official spokesman said the military has promised that if the proposed constitution is defeated at the upcoming referendum, the CNS will use a revised version of the 1997 constitution as the new charter, in order to allow general elections to be held on time”.
These guys are so useless they cannot organise a drink in a bar or a f**k in a brothel, let alone run a dictatorship.
Will rural voters be “confused to death”?
Oh silly Republican . . . you carry on with your noxious diatribe against monarchs, generals, academics and the so-called elites, because they have rejected Thaksin Shinawatra, The Corrupter?
Silly man. For all your silly long paragraphs professing sedetious doctrines . . . it all comes down to your attachment to Thaksin Shinawatra. You might as well join those silly ex-TRT men at Sanam Luang – – anti-coup but mainly pro-Thaksin, their paymaster.
You are truly a silly man Republican. Your politics only orbit around that one silly speeding ticket you want served by the corrupt policeman to the royal driver of the speeding Thai royal motorcade. Republican . . if you remove the policeman’s cap you should have recognized, that corrupt policeman was no other than Thaksin Shinawatra.
Rethinking Sipsongpanna
Andrew, I agree it┬┤s not easy to leave ethnicty behind, especially when the government itself promotes awareness of (artificial?) ethnic categories and most people are still to maintain a distinct ethnic identity even without the help of that promotion… My idea is that there is an old ethnic system (the one developed by the Lue themselves ago long ago) and a new one that the CCP etc. has been trying to impose since the 1950s. These can be maybe described as two ideal systems, the number of possibilities to be found between them, infinite.
What about it? (sorry for insisting on ethnicity!)