The purge is almost complete. The only other major step for the generals is to finish “fixing” the Constitution. Once that is done, they can sit back and wait until they can manage the outcome of “the Succession issue” as well. This may even happen within five years….(before those pesky politicians can return!).
Pop quiz: in terms of their ideology and political objectives, do you think the CNS is more like Phibulsongkram or Pridi?
I am interested in the comment attributed to Sulak that the ‘ruling generals were more “tolerant”, especially when “compared to [the] Thaksin regime”.’
I am no Thaksin supporter, but my recent experience in Thailand suggests that tolerance may be seen differently in different places and by different social groups. Let me give some examples of tolerance:
* Extensive media reporting of the prevention of people moving. These reports showed roadblocks throughout the N and NE. Gen Sonthi said yesterday on TV that there were also military checks at Ekkamai and Mor Chit bus stations and Hualampong station.
* I drove past Klong Toey a few times lately and there are military detachments seemingly permanently posted there.
* I was in a major provincial border town a couple of weeks ago, where martial law remains in place. Police and military everywhere after 9PM, stopping all vehicles. This felt like military rule, and reminded me of Burma (when I was there a number of years ago).
Tolerant?? Really?
I’d like to hear from other NM readers about their experience of military rule in Thailand.
Not “electoral sabotage” but cleaning the toxic waste of rent-seeking.
How many years has it taken to clean up the rent-seeking mess that Suharto left with his FUNCINPEC party? Thaksin was a civil **servant** and a police officer and he abused that power to manipulate the economy and become a billionaire. Because Thailand has a wise King and enough thinking people, it has been stopped. They’ve saved the country in a way that Indonesia under Suharto or Italy under Mussolini never did. Let the toxic waste cleanup begin. As Chang Noi observes:
“…TOT and CAT were fierce rivals. To give their concessionaire a market advantage, TOT imposed a connection charge on all mobiles calling into a landline phone, but exempted AIS. This little kink gave AIS a guaranteed higher margin, and more funds to blast away competition with saturation marketing. For the next fifteen years, AIS did everything necessary to preserve this unfair advantage.
“Thaksin rose to power in the confusion. Somehow regulation and liberalization never happened. For seven years, attempts to form the National Telecommunication Commission were sabotaged. TOT and CAT were slated for privatization and ceased to have any weight as regulators. Their actual privatization was constantly delayed so they failed to become competitors either. Attempts to unwind the concession structure were stonewalled.”
“Over its 15 years under Shin management, AIS generated 97 billion baht of net profit (74 billion under Thaksin’s premiership). Economists have tried to calculate how much of its value was due to political influence. A TDRI study estimated about a third. Maybe the figure is nearer forty percent. That is how much the market value of Shin Corp has dropped since the day of the sale. The loss is around US$ 1.7 billion.
“That suggests however much Thaksin might have invested in politics – in buying bureaucrats, communications ministers, MPs, political parties, voters, or judges – it looks like it was worth it. As long as the family can hold onto it. That’s the sequel.” http://www.geocities.com/changnoi2/mobile.htm
He got off the first time he had his maids and chauffeur help him conceal weath, not the second though.
For anyone upset by the Constitutional Tribunal’s ruling, one suggested therapy is to go back and read the reasoning behind the old Constitutional Court’s 2001 ruling on Thaksin’s asset concealment case.
For those who were upset at that decision, they will by now have learnt how to deal with their outrage, and those who accepted that decision should also be able to accept this latest decision.
That old ruling allowed Thaksin to remain in power for 5 years, which just happens to be the same time as the latest ruling has banned him and his party.
The lastest ban on TRT & the 111 seems a bit harsh at face value, but on balance I think it has all evened out because I also thought the 2001 ruling was favorable to Thaksin (and therefore TRT).
In my professional life I have always said that once something gets to court it becomes a lottery, and we have to learn to live with whatever the decision.
The ugliest part is the court’s refuge in the illegitimate authority of the coup and the retrospective use of the “laws” enacted by the coup to decide that the TRT destroyed democracy.
Thai democracy is a democracy with the kangaroo court.
(Apology to all kangaroos and their wombat relatives. next time I will call any kangaroos who disregard the principles of law as the “Thai-court kangaroos”.)
Yesterday’s verdict handed down by the nine-member Constitution Tribunal on the electoral fraud charges involving the Democrat Party and the obscure Progressive Democratic Party was based on a thorough consideration of the evidence and sound reasoning and it should set a new standard for the settlement of disputes over constitutional matters in this country.
The irony which doesn’t escape me is that these so-called professors and deans are derisive about Thai democracy, yet these are the deans and ajarns responsible for the democratic development curriculum for Thailand’s major universities and are supposed to provide the academic theory which underpins social and political policy in Thailand.
If I was there, I would have told them that they were responsible for Thaksinocracy, because they failed to teach our youth anything about political theory and failed to develop a democratic education curriculum that works.
And one more irony on top of that irony is that I can’t believe these professors, who admit that they are on the junta’s propaganda payroll, have the audacity to lecture anybody about democracy.
There isn’t nothing democratic about a coup. And there certainly is nothing moral about taking General Saprang’s slush fund money to travel abroad to justify his taking of power by force.
I wonder if anybody in the audience have the courage to point out these intellectual inconsistencies?
TRT — under whatever party label(s) — still controls by far the most up-country voter bases, while the Democrats, despite the favor given to them by the court, merely control the south. So how can they get this “solid majority”?
I guess I should have written it as millions of Thai voters are now looking for a new party to support.
What are their choices?
I highly doubt they (as if they were a unified block which they aren’t but let’s say they are for argument’s sake) will go with the Democrats! That would be nonsensical.
A new party could get off the ground but I assure you the “powers that be” will do everything possible to block any upstart that may appear to have populist leanings. They control the registration process and know who is safe and dangerous to let into the game. Also, this was written in the papers a few days back, “He added, however, that due to the coup-makers’ orders banning political party-related activities, registering a new political party would be impossible at the moment. Commission member Sodsri Satayathum hinted yesterday that new parties might not be ready to contest the next general election if party founders chose not to take over existing parties.”
We could see a new military-royalist party emerge to contest the election. I can’t imagine they would be able to develop mass support but they might be able to join with the majority party able be in a position to push their agenda and defend their interests. I believe in SC’s article yesterday he mentioned that Pridiyathorn Devakul has political ambitions and that CNS Secretary Winai Patiyakul was earlier trying to work something behind the scenes with those who jumped ship from TRT, but now that those MPs are banned who knows? I’m not sure what kind of support Pridiyathorn would receive after his disastrous stint as finance minister.
I think the military and the royalists will be content moving things along so that the Democrats win the election with a solid majority. This way they don’t have to worry about any interference from politicians who might want to challenge their prerogatives in ruling what is “rightfully theirs”. The military and royalists have just done the Democrats an enormous favor to say the least so we can expect that the Dem’s won’t make any trouble when the military and royals make suggestions about how things should be run. This is not to say that the Democrats and the military-palace folks are one in the same but it’s to say that the Democrats know “their place” in the system and won’t do like TRT and cross over into their turf.
It’s sad to see people rant and rave over ‘Taksin the Hitler’, ‘election not enough’, ‘Us-democracy seekers’, ‘Them-Taksin supporters’. I hope these coup condoners realise how pathetic they looked. Note that one of the speakers is the Dean of Chulalongkorn University’s Political Science Faculty. Time for Chula to introduce a Batchelor of Science in Coup d’etat, perhaps.
I don’t judge people, but having watched the silence of Thai students during the seminar, I must agree with Sulak and the other chap from LSE. Yes, the Thai educational system is efficiently producing a successive generation of ‘servants’ of the state.
Iriejay: Why don’t they have anyone to vote for?
What’s to stop a new party from adopting the popular TRT policies?
OR:
– are you worried that the rural majority will not be able to differtiate between good and bad politicians?
(perhaps Andrew might be able to enlighten us)
Might be time fot Thaksin to hire some new lobbyists if they let this opportunity pass him by.
(or perhaps he was too busy ringing community radio stations, buying football clubs & organising professional golf matters?)
Thai Rak Thai is officially dead, but the ideology that it used to get elected and the people who “bought” into it are still alive. The “problem” that has been underlying Thailand’s political mess remains unresolved and yesterday’s decisions may make it even worse in the days and months ahead. There is no doubt that TRT and its millions of supporters must be fuming at the decision. The question now is what will they do next? Will they sit back quietly and allow the junta and its lap dog, the Democrats, get away with this further consolidation of power? What are they plotting if anything? What does this mean for the next election if there is one? There are now millions of rural Thai voters who don’t have a party to support in the next election. There must be numerous politicians drooling at the opportunity that this presents. Who will is going to jump on this billion baht opportunity? Banhan? Chavalit? Is it realistic to think either of these guys will be able to woo all former TRT supporters to their side and make a serious run at the Democrats in the next election? Comments welcome
The Democrats can be really proud of themselves. First, Thavorn Seniam managed to have the election of April 2006 annulled. Second, Suthep Thueksuban managed to have TRT dissolved. Congratulations!
Judging from Nich’s report, this exercise in academic pro-coup PR seem to have backfired. Reportedly, people at the Friedrich Ebert Foundation who organized the roundtable in Berlin earlier also felt cheated by the Thai delegation. That it allowed a guy like Surat to play the first fiddle in such an event is beyond my comprehension.
The truth is the Democrats, Chart Thai, Mahachon couldn’t win an election, so they boycotted.
But that doesn’t mean Thai Rak Thai had to cheat.
They could have won without cheating. Actually, it was a stupid strategy to conspire with other parties to get past the 20% threshhold.
Thai Rak Thai could have won the election fair and square. No doubt it would have dominated playing by the rules. And if there weren’t enough MPs to form parliament, Thai Rak Thai could have blamed the Democrats for undermining the democratic system and costing the tax payers a lot of money.
Also, Thaksin should have never called a snap election in the first place.
Instead, he should have challenged the Senate to impeach him over the Shin Corp sale.
One thing Thai politicians, actually most politicians, seem to never get it.
It is better to do things in public than to cover up.
Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai would have survived if they played by the rules. And they chose to cheat. Som nam na.
In the end, whatever Thai Rak Thai did did not justify a coup.
The bigger sin was the coup, which had no democratic or legal legitimacy. And the Democrats should be ashamed of themselves for allying themselves with the military dictators because they were too incompetent to win elections.
Well, if those pesky TRT somehow able to register a new party, maybe “neo-TRT”. The Dem, Mahachon, and Chat Thai could all band together and threaten to boycott the upcoming election again. Those who dare oppose(contest) could be squash without having to go through the necessity of another coup.
After all, this action is not deem un-democratic.
You got three great parties, why cant you be content with them! Sufficiency democracy indeed.
The DP boycott was a brilliant move from Abhisit (I recall Chuan actually disapproved but was prevailed upon by Abhisit).
That DP boycott as we now can see brought out in the open all the dirty linen of Thaksin and TRT party.
I was dismayed that not one TRT party executive, specially Thaksin , did not feel obliged to apologize to their 14 million party members for bringing the party into such disrepute then disbandment. Most of the TRT caught on TV were just saying ‘thanks for the sympathy and the cheers despite’ . . whoa . . . who were the aggrieved and cheated and betrayed here?
I like Andrew’s kiddy “Democrat-except-when-we-cannot-win-an-election-and-then-a-coup-is-ok Party” nag. If only I can come up with a much longer even more kiddy ‘na-na-na-na-na’! then we can have a really brawl going.
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
The purge is almost complete. The only other major step for the generals is to finish “fixing” the Constitution. Once that is done, they can sit back and wait until they can manage the outcome of “the Succession issue” as well. This may even happen within five years….(before those pesky politicians can return!).
Pop quiz: in terms of their ideology and political objectives, do you think the CNS is more like Phibulsongkram or Pridi?
Report on SOAS event in London: “Thailand after the Coup”
I am interested in the comment attributed to Sulak that the ‘ruling generals were more “tolerant”, especially when “compared to [the] Thaksin regime”.’
I am no Thaksin supporter, but my recent experience in Thailand suggests that tolerance may be seen differently in different places and by different social groups. Let me give some examples of tolerance:
* Extensive media reporting of the prevention of people moving. These reports showed roadblocks throughout the N and NE. Gen Sonthi said yesterday on TV that there were also military checks at Ekkamai and Mor Chit bus stations and Hualampong station.
* I drove past Klong Toey a few times lately and there are military detachments seemingly permanently posted there.
* I was in a major provincial border town a couple of weeks ago, where martial law remains in place. Police and military everywhere after 9PM, stopping all vehicles. This felt like military rule, and reminded me of Burma (when I was there a number of years ago).
Tolerant?? Really?
I’d like to hear from other NM readers about their experience of military rule in Thailand.
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
Not “electoral sabotage” but cleaning the toxic waste of rent-seeking.
How many years has it taken to clean up the rent-seeking mess that Suharto left with his FUNCINPEC party? Thaksin was a civil **servant** and a police officer and he abused that power to manipulate the economy and become a billionaire. Because Thailand has a wise King and enough thinking people, it has been stopped. They’ve saved the country in a way that Indonesia under Suharto or Italy under Mussolini never did. Let the toxic waste cleanup begin. As Chang Noi observes:
“…TOT and CAT were fierce rivals. To give their concessionaire a market advantage, TOT imposed a connection charge on all mobiles calling into a landline phone, but exempted AIS. This little kink gave AIS a guaranteed higher margin, and more funds to blast away competition with saturation marketing. For the next fifteen years, AIS did everything necessary to preserve this unfair advantage.
“Thaksin rose to power in the confusion. Somehow regulation and liberalization never happened. For seven years, attempts to form the National Telecommunication Commission were sabotaged. TOT and CAT were slated for privatization and ceased to have any weight as regulators. Their actual privatization was constantly delayed so they failed to become competitors either. Attempts to unwind the concession structure were stonewalled.”
“Over its 15 years under Shin management, AIS generated 97 billion baht of net profit (74 billion under Thaksin’s premiership). Economists have tried to calculate how much of its value was due to political influence. A TDRI study estimated about a third. Maybe the figure is nearer forty percent. That is how much the market value of Shin Corp has dropped since the day of the sale. The loss is around US$ 1.7 billion.
“That suggests however much Thaksin might have invested in politics – in buying bureaucrats, communications ministers, MPs, political parties, voters, or judges – it looks like it was worth it. As long as the family can hold onto it. That’s the sequel.”
http://www.geocities.com/changnoi2/mobile.htm
He got off the first time he had his maids and chauffeur help him conceal weath, not the second though.
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
For anyone upset by the Constitutional Tribunal’s ruling, one suggested therapy is to go back and read the reasoning behind the old Constitutional Court’s 2001 ruling on Thaksin’s asset concealment case.
For those who were upset at that decision, they will by now have learnt how to deal with their outrage, and those who accepted that decision should also be able to accept this latest decision.
That old ruling allowed Thaksin to remain in power for 5 years, which just happens to be the same time as the latest ruling has banned him and his party.
The lastest ban on TRT & the 111 seems a bit harsh at face value, but on balance I think it has all evened out because I also thought the 2001 ruling was favorable to Thaksin (and therefore TRT).
In my professional life I have always said that once something gets to court it becomes a lottery, and we have to learn to live with whatever the decision.
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
The ugliest part is the court’s refuge in the illegitimate authority of the coup and the retrospective use of the “laws” enacted by the coup to decide that the TRT destroyed democracy.
Thai democracy is a democracy with the kangaroo court.
(Apology to all kangaroos and their wombat relatives. next time I will call any kangaroos who disregard the principles of law as the “Thai-court kangaroos”.)
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
First paragraph of the editorial on The Nation:
Yesterday’s verdict handed down by the nine-member Constitution Tribunal on the electoral fraud charges involving the Democrat Party and the obscure Progressive Democratic Party was based on a thorough consideration of the evidence and sound reasoning and it should set a new standard for the settlement of disputes over constitutional matters in this country.
There’s no end to The Nation’s confusion…
Report on SOAS event in London: “Thailand after the Coup”
The irony which doesn’t escape me is that these so-called professors and deans are derisive about Thai democracy, yet these are the deans and ajarns responsible for the democratic development curriculum for Thailand’s major universities and are supposed to provide the academic theory which underpins social and political policy in Thailand.
If I was there, I would have told them that they were responsible for Thaksinocracy, because they failed to teach our youth anything about political theory and failed to develop a democratic education curriculum that works.
And one more irony on top of that irony is that I can’t believe these professors, who admit that they are on the junta’s propaganda payroll, have the audacity to lecture anybody about democracy.
There isn’t nothing democratic about a coup. And there certainly is nothing moral about taking General Saprang’s slush fund money to travel abroad to justify his taking of power by force.
I wonder if anybody in the audience have the courage to point out these intellectual inconsistencies?
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
TRT — under whatever party label(s) — still controls by far the most up-country voter bases, while the Democrats, despite the favor given to them by the court, merely control the south. So how can they get this “solid majority”?
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
I guess I should have written it as millions of Thai voters are now looking for a new party to support.
What are their choices?
I highly doubt they (as if they were a unified block which they aren’t but let’s say they are for argument’s sake) will go with the Democrats! That would be nonsensical.
A new party could get off the ground but I assure you the “powers that be” will do everything possible to block any upstart that may appear to have populist leanings. They control the registration process and know who is safe and dangerous to let into the game. Also, this was written in the papers a few days back, “He added, however, that due to the coup-makers’ orders banning political party-related activities, registering a new political party would be impossible at the moment. Commission member Sodsri Satayathum hinted yesterday that new parties might not be ready to contest the next general election if party founders chose not to take over existing parties.”
We could see a new military-royalist party emerge to contest the election. I can’t imagine they would be able to develop mass support but they might be able to join with the majority party able be in a position to push their agenda and defend their interests. I believe in SC’s article yesterday he mentioned that Pridiyathorn Devakul has political ambitions and that CNS Secretary Winai Patiyakul was earlier trying to work something behind the scenes with those who jumped ship from TRT, but now that those MPs are banned who knows? I’m not sure what kind of support Pridiyathorn would receive after his disastrous stint as finance minister.
I think the military and the royalists will be content moving things along so that the Democrats win the election with a solid majority. This way they don’t have to worry about any interference from politicians who might want to challenge their prerogatives in ruling what is “rightfully theirs”. The military and royalists have just done the Democrats an enormous favor to say the least so we can expect that the Dem’s won’t make any trouble when the military and royals make suggestions about how things should be run. This is not to say that the Democrats and the military-palace folks are one in the same but it’s to say that the Democrats know “their place” in the system and won’t do like TRT and cross over into their turf.
What is the deal with Chat Thai and Banhan?
Report on SOAS event in London: “Thailand after the Coup”
It’s sad to see people rant and rave over ‘Taksin the Hitler’, ‘election not enough’, ‘Us-democracy seekers’, ‘Them-Taksin supporters’. I hope these coup condoners realise how pathetic they looked. Note that one of the speakers is the Dean of Chulalongkorn University’s Political Science Faculty. Time for Chula to introduce a Batchelor of Science in Coup d’etat, perhaps.
I don’t judge people, but having watched the silence of Thai students during the seminar, I must agree with Sulak and the other chap from LSE. Yes, the Thai educational system is efficiently producing a successive generation of ‘servants’ of the state.
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
Iriejay: Why don’t they have anyone to vote for?
What’s to stop a new party from adopting the popular TRT policies?
OR:
– are you worried that the rural majority will not be able to differtiate between good and bad politicians?
(perhaps Andrew might be able to enlighten us)
Report on SOAS event in London: “Thailand after the Coup”
Might be time fot Thaksin to hire some new lobbyists if they let this opportunity pass him by.
(or perhaps he was too busy ringing community radio stations, buying football clubs & organising professional golf matters?)
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
Thai Rak Thai is officially dead, but the ideology that it used to get elected and the people who “bought” into it are still alive. The “problem” that has been underlying Thailand’s political mess remains unresolved and yesterday’s decisions may make it even worse in the days and months ahead. There is no doubt that TRT and its millions of supporters must be fuming at the decision. The question now is what will they do next? Will they sit back quietly and allow the junta and its lap dog, the Democrats, get away with this further consolidation of power? What are they plotting if anything? What does this mean for the next election if there is one? There are now millions of rural Thai voters who don’t have a party to support in the next election. There must be numerous politicians drooling at the opportunity that this presents. Who will is going to jump on this billion baht opportunity? Banhan? Chavalit? Is it realistic to think either of these guys will be able to woo all former TRT supporters to their side and make a serious run at the Democrats in the next election? Comments welcome
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
The Democrats can be really proud of themselves. First, Thavorn Seniam managed to have the election of April 2006 annulled. Second, Suthep Thueksuban managed to have TRT dissolved. Congratulations!
Report on SOAS event in London: “Thailand after the Coup”
Judging from Nich’s report, this exercise in academic pro-coup PR seem to have backfired. Reportedly, people at the Friedrich Ebert Foundation who organized the roundtable in Berlin earlier also felt cheated by the Thai delegation. That it allowed a guy like Surat to play the first fiddle in such an event is beyond my comprehension.
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
The truth is the Democrats, Chart Thai, Mahachon couldn’t win an election, so they boycotted.
But that doesn’t mean Thai Rak Thai had to cheat.
They could have won without cheating. Actually, it was a stupid strategy to conspire with other parties to get past the 20% threshhold.
Thai Rak Thai could have won the election fair and square. No doubt it would have dominated playing by the rules. And if there weren’t enough MPs to form parliament, Thai Rak Thai could have blamed the Democrats for undermining the democratic system and costing the tax payers a lot of money.
Also, Thaksin should have never called a snap election in the first place.
Instead, he should have challenged the Senate to impeach him over the Shin Corp sale.
One thing Thai politicians, actually most politicians, seem to never get it.
It is better to do things in public than to cover up.
Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai would have survived if they played by the rules. And they chose to cheat. Som nam na.
In the end, whatever Thai Rak Thai did did not justify a coup.
The bigger sin was the coup, which had no democratic or legal legitimacy. And the Democrats should be ashamed of themselves for allying themselves with the military dictators because they were too incompetent to win elections.
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
Well, if those pesky TRT somehow able to register a new party, maybe “neo-TRT”. The Dem, Mahachon, and Chat Thai could all band together and threaten to boycott the upcoming election again. Those who dare oppose(contest) could be squash without having to go through the necessity of another coup.
After all, this action is not deem un-democratic.
You got three great parties, why cant you be content with them! Sufficiency democracy indeed.
High praise
Hey you better watch out guys.
I have been recently employed by Thaksin to begin his reality ‘you are fired’ blog show right here on New Mandala.
I am waiting for Patiwat, Fonzi and the rest to audition.
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
The DP boycott was a brilliant move from Abhisit (I recall Chuan actually disapproved but was prevailed upon by Abhisit).
That DP boycott as we now can see brought out in the open all the dirty linen of Thaksin and TRT party.
I was dismayed that not one TRT party executive, specially Thaksin , did not feel obliged to apologize to their 14 million party members for bringing the party into such disrepute then disbandment. Most of the TRT caught on TV were just saying ‘thanks for the sympathy and the cheers despite’ . . whoa . . . who were the aggrieved and cheated and betrayed here?
I like Andrew’s kiddy “Democrat-except-when-we-cannot-win-an-election-and-then-a-coup-is-ok Party” nag. If only I can come up with a much longer even more kiddy ‘na-na-na-na-na’! then we can have a really brawl going.
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
They’re already living with it. They’ve long lived with it?