Sittichai , he didn’t care about lese majeste case , but he did it to protect Gen.Prem , because Youtube have a clip of Thaksin told about Gen.Prem who behind the scene р╣Йр╕│he interfered to justice system, to media, to prosecutor, used everything to topple.
It’s poor form, and intellectually weak, to blame Bhumibol for everything (ditto blaming Thaksin for everything).
What were the politicians, academics, military, bureaucrats, police, journalists, foreign diplomats/businesmen and ‘the Thai people’ doing over all that time?
If anything, many of the problems are not because of Bhumibol’s efforts, but in spite of his efforts.
Thaksin could have made a difference but he turned out to be just like the rest, only smarter & greedier – such a disappointment!
“Before Bhumibol, we had a democratic constitution and a forward looking government. Under Bhumibol, we have a despotic constitution and a brutal and ineffective junta.” >> This is too simplistic. One can criticize the king for many things. However, King Bhumibol is just that — a king. He isn’t Superman or a super kneight in shining armor. He has merely been one (important) player in the total game of political development over the past decades.
Did anyone actually download and read the text in its entirety? It’s one thing to present a simplified worldview to children, but honestly, this is ridiculous…especially the initial pages.
Historicus said: “Problem might be getting the palace to actually like constitutions!”. I dispute that. HMK Bhumibhol had always been the foremost advocate of constitutional propriety . . HMK Bhumibhol had always been very careful to be seen as not violating his authority or prerogatives under the Thai constitution. It was the ex-PM Thaksin who did not observe constitutional rule of law.
I still maintain that Thailand’s monarchy would NOT be served by a dictatorial government, military or otherwise. Look at world history. Most monarchies of the world quickly evaporated once a strongman, a dictator assumed power. Russia, China, etc. To a dictator, a monarch is a competitor which he would quickly eliminate.
Republican & Historicus will be spitting on their breakfast today after reading the following in the Bangkok Post: Col Khunying Chitrawadee Chulanont, wife of the prime minister, was among seven ”khunying” title holders elevated to ”thanpuying” in a ceremony marking Coronation Day yesterday. The other six are Khunying Srinat Suriya, M.R. Prasarnsuwan Suwannarat, Khunying Wanida Poonsiri, Khunying Parani Lamsam, Col Khun Ni-orn Sanitwong na Ayutthaya and Khunying Tassaniya Suwannarat.
They were awarded the Dame Grand Commander (Second Class) of the Most Illustrious Order of Chulachomklao decoration.
Mom Kamala Yukol na Ayutthaya, wife of movie director M.C. Chatrichalerm, along with 17 other women, was made a Member of the Most Illustrious Order of Chulachomklao (Fourth Class), giving them the title of khunying.
The 17 others are Noppakhun Yuchamnong, Supatra Jarujaron, M.L. Yuwanwaree Kittiyakorn, M.R. Thippawadee Dulalampa, M.R. Duenden Kittiyakorn, Dr Wanna Sombunwibun, Pattama Leesawattrakul, Ornsri Wangwiwat, Jongrak Sangprasit, Bang-orn Kemajaru, Maj-Gen Tassanee Patjusanont, M.R. Emjit Jittrapong, M.L. Hiranyika Wannamethi, Sukanya Burana, Col Warunee Amatayakul, Sasiwong Puengtrakul and Jintana Thupthong, who is HRH Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn’s personal nurse.
Fifty-three women and 54 men were bestowed royal decorations by His Majesty the King at the Grand Palace yesterday. Privy councillors Kasem Wattanachai and Palakorn Suwannarat were awarded the Knight Grand Cross (First Class) of the Most Illustrious Order of Chulachomklao decoration. Various classes of orders were established in 1873 by King Rama V.
Was there a list of achievements published to show how they deserved these honors?
Bhumibol’s rule has been detrimental to Thailand’s democratic development.
Bhumibol effectively became King when his older brother was shot. King Ananda Mahidol ruled under the 1946 Constitution, which was enacted legally (not via coup). Both the House and the Senate were elected bodies. Civil servants and military officers were banned from the legislature. Fundamental freedoms were guaranteed.
Fast forward 61 years. What has Bhumibol done over those years? The constitution he signed was thrust upon the people via tanks and guns. The legislature is completely appointed, and packed with civil servants and the military. Fundamental freedoms are trampled upon regularly. The next constitution calls for a Senate appointed by the military and the bureaucracy that will be packed by the military and the bureaucracy.
I rest my case. Before Bhumibol, we had a democratic constitution and a forward looking government. Under Bhumibol, we have a despotic constitution and a brutal and ineffective junta.
Jeru says, “To the Thai monarchy, it makes a lot of common sense to nurture constitutional democracy. A dictatorship is dangerous to the survival of the Thai monarchy . . . that is obvious isn’t it?”
Not obvious at all. A case could be made that a constitutional monarchy operating under a strong democratic system might be a good outcome for the monarchy as an institution. It might, for example, protect the monarchy from a mad or bad king.
However, the preferred model for this king appears not to be a monarchy that knows its place. The palace propaganda is that it wants to be able to warn and advise, but this king goes way further than that. He and/or his men actively intervene in politics on a regular basis.
The history of this monarchy suggests that it generally thrives under dictatorships. After Phibun was thrown out, Sarit promoted the monarchy (that’s accepted history even pre-Handley). The monarchy got back much under the military dicatorship of 1958-73. The palace put the right-wing Thanin in place and was in a huff when he was ditched as too dictatorial for even the military. They loved Prem – and still do. Under Prem, politics was managed, but it wasn’t a democracy.
I think it is fair to say that dictatorships have been good to this palace and that they have been good to dictatorships.
That said, they would probably be better served looking to European and Japanese models of constitutional monarchy. Problem might be getting the palace to actually like constitutions!
You could always apply for a grant from Soros for that commando captialist brigade. I’m not up on my thoughts of Soros like I should be, but I think his response would be that for that to work you would need an “Open Society”. Like I said, I’m not up on my Soros philosophy like I should be, but I’m pretty sure it ain’t even close to the regime in place like now, which favors Khun Sa capitalism, which a bit worse than the Thaksin variety.
Also, I think it is the military regime that is generating all those rape stories that are zoning you out, not the Soros foundation. Why direct your ire at the folks reporting the problem, rather than the people causing them?
The last time I had reason to buy Kyat the going rate was 1340 to the Dollar. The “unofficial” rate does bobble up and down quite considerably.
I am not sure if the “official” rate (like the one given by this conversion webiste) really matters that much – although it is of some academic interest. Buying 6 Kyat to the dollar would, as you know, make visiting Burma a very expensive proposition!
Still, his recalculation of the 2005 result according to the German model seems to be incorrect, meaning that his absolute figures for the votes each party received on the party list is correct, but not the percentages. Since he obviously used them for the calculation of seats, they turn out to be too low, even if one considers that he had counted all parties, not merely including Mahachon. His percentage for all others seem to be 8.44, when in fact it was only 4.63%.
This is a first impression. I will have to read his piece more en detail.
I checked your link to current currency rates and gasped, it may have been a year or two since I actually looked and the rates but it seems to me that the Kyat is still much higher than it was not too long ago.
This site also gives close to the same amount 1US Dollar (USD) = 6.16260 Myanmar Kyat (MMK), perhaps I am remembering past black market values which I know have declined over the last couple years but hasn’t this “official” rate risen dramatically?
Afreethai: As Streckfuss and nganadeeleg have suggested on this blog: why not follow some European examples and make the application of lese majeste dependent on a complaint by the monarch, instead of letting all sorts of people play their more or less dirty political games with this law by accusing those they don’t like.
I recently returned from the Thai-Burma border area near Mae Sot and Umphaing. Although there are still many upheavals going on there and IDPs fleeing the fighting now mainly between the KNU and DKBA and others, I believe there is still a real chance for peace based on the continuing negotiation efforts with the Burmese government in Rangoon originally begun by Gen. Saw Bo Mya. Prior to his death. he entrusted this effort to Gen. Htain Maung and Col. Thera Lermu who are working towards the vision Bo Mya had of a just and honorable peace. Like Bo Mya’s initial peace initiative, these continuing peace efforts have not been well received by the KNUs political arm to the point that they are killing their own people including a local Karen Pastor Po Aye in March 2007 and also attempted the assassination of Col. Lermu and others as well as recently as April 2007. Even so, I believe the efforts will meet with success and the Karens will rally around it once a peace aggrement is finally reached. regards, Doc K.
Afreethai: The point is that Thaksin, whatever he might have done to democracy, was not toppled because people wanted to defend this system. This merely is an ex-post facto rationalization to make things look better. Or one might say that the pro-democracy effects, if any, are unintended side effects.
One thing is for sure, the references to democracy come in handy for the scores of academics who have joined military-appointed bodies of various kinds. Thaksin had mostly excluded them from politics. Thus, they were quite hungry after having fasted for five years. In 1991, when NIDA’s Thinapan Nakata joined Suchinda, there was harsh criticism of him. Nowadays, very few people see anything problematic in intellectuals joining a military coup regime.
Long time ago, Noam Chomsky had written a book on “The Responsibility of Intellectuals.” I wonder whether this is available in Thai university libraries.
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Has the coup been good for democracy?
What would things have been like without HMK ?
Look around the region, and then carry on with your blame game.
Has the coup been good for democracy?
Bhumibol’s support has made coups successful and dictators triumphant (witness Sarit, 1976, Prem, and Sonthi).
His silence has made coups fall apart and dictators fall (witness 1972, 1981, 1985, Suchinda).
He is much more than just a passive player in the game. He is the rule-maker himself. He is foremost to blame for the mess we’re in.
YouTube vs Thai dictatorship: The saga continues
Sittichai , he didn’t care about lese majeste case , but he did it to protect Gen.Prem , because Youtube have a clip of Thaksin told about Gen.Prem who behind the scene р╣Йр╕│he interfered to justice system, to media, to prosecutor, used everything to topple.
Has the coup been good for democracy?
It’s poor form, and intellectually weak, to blame Bhumibol for everything (ditto blaming Thaksin for everything).
What were the politicians, academics, military, bureaucrats, police, journalists, foreign diplomats/businesmen and ‘the Thai people’ doing over all that time?
If anything, many of the problems are not because of Bhumibol’s efforts, but in spite of his efforts.
Thaksin could have made a difference but he turned out to be just like the rest, only smarter & greedier – such a disappointment!
Back to the 1970s
Yes, Prinya likes to present a progressive political image, but his social outlook remains very conservative.
Has the coup been good for democracy?
“Before Bhumibol, we had a democratic constitution and a forward looking government. Under Bhumibol, we have a despotic constitution and a brutal and ineffective junta.” >> This is too simplistic. One can criticize the king for many things. However, King Bhumibol is just that — a king. He isn’t Superman or a super kneight in shining armor. He has merely been one (important) player in the total game of political development over the past decades.
A fairy story
Did anyone actually download and read the text in its entirety? It’s one thing to present a simplified worldview to children, but honestly, this is ridiculous…especially the initial pages.
Has the coup been good for democracy?
Historicus said: “Problem might be getting the palace to actually like constitutions!”. I dispute that. HMK Bhumibhol had always been the foremost advocate of constitutional propriety . . HMK Bhumibhol had always been very careful to be seen as not violating his authority or prerogatives under the Thai constitution. It was the ex-PM Thaksin who did not observe constitutional rule of law.
I still maintain that Thailand’s monarchy would NOT be served by a dictatorial government, military or otherwise. Look at world history. Most monarchies of the world quickly evaporated once a strongman, a dictator assumed power. Russia, China, etc. To a dictator, a monarch is a competitor which he would quickly eliminate.
Has the coup been good for democracy?
Republican & Historicus will be spitting on their breakfast today after reading the following in the Bangkok Post:
Col Khunying Chitrawadee Chulanont, wife of the prime minister, was among seven ”khunying” title holders elevated to ”thanpuying” in a ceremony marking Coronation Day yesterday. The other six are Khunying Srinat Suriya, M.R. Prasarnsuwan Suwannarat, Khunying Wanida Poonsiri, Khunying Parani Lamsam, Col Khun Ni-orn Sanitwong na Ayutthaya and Khunying Tassaniya Suwannarat.
They were awarded the Dame Grand Commander (Second Class) of the Most Illustrious Order of Chulachomklao decoration.
Mom Kamala Yukol na Ayutthaya, wife of movie director M.C. Chatrichalerm, along with 17 other women, was made a Member of the Most Illustrious Order of Chulachomklao (Fourth Class), giving them the title of khunying.
The 17 others are Noppakhun Yuchamnong, Supatra Jarujaron, M.L. Yuwanwaree Kittiyakorn, M.R. Thippawadee Dulalampa, M.R. Duenden Kittiyakorn, Dr Wanna Sombunwibun, Pattama Leesawattrakul, Ornsri Wangwiwat, Jongrak Sangprasit, Bang-orn Kemajaru, Maj-Gen Tassanee Patjusanont, M.R. Emjit Jittrapong, M.L. Hiranyika Wannamethi, Sukanya Burana, Col Warunee Amatayakul, Sasiwong Puengtrakul and Jintana Thupthong, who is HRH Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn’s personal nurse.
Fifty-three women and 54 men were bestowed royal decorations by His Majesty the King at the Grand Palace yesterday. Privy councillors Kasem Wattanachai and Palakorn Suwannarat were awarded the Knight Grand Cross (First Class) of the Most Illustrious Order of Chulachomklao decoration. Various classes of orders were established in 1873 by King Rama V.
Was there a list of achievements published to show how they deserved these honors?
Is Angkhana Neelaphaijit on the extended list?
Back to the 1970s
Prinya Thewanaruemitkul has no business talking about German constitutional law.
He should stick to his specialization: figuring out whether his students wear underwear or not, and if not, punishing them in public.
Has the coup been good for democracy?
Bhumibol’s rule has been detrimental to Thailand’s democratic development.
Bhumibol effectively became King when his older brother was shot. King Ananda Mahidol ruled under the 1946 Constitution, which was enacted legally (not via coup). Both the House and the Senate were elected bodies. Civil servants and military officers were banned from the legislature. Fundamental freedoms were guaranteed.
Fast forward 61 years. What has Bhumibol done over those years? The constitution he signed was thrust upon the people via tanks and guns. The legislature is completely appointed, and packed with civil servants and the military. Fundamental freedoms are trampled upon regularly. The next constitution calls for a Senate appointed by the military and the bureaucracy that will be packed by the military and the bureaucracy.
I rest my case. Before Bhumibol, we had a democratic constitution and a forward looking government. Under Bhumibol, we have a despotic constitution and a brutal and ineffective junta.
Has the coup been good for democracy?
Jeru says, “To the Thai monarchy, it makes a lot of common sense to nurture constitutional democracy. A dictatorship is dangerous to the survival of the Thai monarchy . . . that is obvious isn’t it?”
Not obvious at all. A case could be made that a constitutional monarchy operating under a strong democratic system might be a good outcome for the monarchy as an institution. It might, for example, protect the monarchy from a mad or bad king.
However, the preferred model for this king appears not to be a monarchy that knows its place. The palace propaganda is that it wants to be able to warn and advise, but this king goes way further than that. He and/or his men actively intervene in politics on a regular basis.
The history of this monarchy suggests that it generally thrives under dictatorships. After Phibun was thrown out, Sarit promoted the monarchy (that’s accepted history even pre-Handley). The monarchy got back much under the military dicatorship of 1958-73. The palace put the right-wing Thanin in place and was in a huff when he was ditched as too dictatorial for even the military. They loved Prem – and still do. Under Prem, politics was managed, but it wasn’t a democracy.
I think it is fair to say that dictatorships have been good to this palace and that they have been good to dictatorships.
That said, they would probably be better served looking to European and Japanese models of constitutional monarchy. Problem might be getting the palace to actually like constitutions!
“Take a different trek”…to “timeless” Burma
You could always apply for a grant from Soros for that commando captialist brigade. I’m not up on my thoughts of Soros like I should be, but I think his response would be that for that to work you would need an “Open Society”. Like I said, I’m not up on my Soros philosophy like I should be, but I’m pretty sure it ain’t even close to the regime in place like now, which favors Khun Sa capitalism, which a bit worse than the Thaksin variety.
Also, I think it is the military regime that is generating all those rape stories that are zoning you out, not the Soros foundation. Why direct your ire at the folks reporting the problem, rather than the people causing them?
What a Manau looks like
Those people are wearing somany colors!
I’s very beautiful.
Do they have any special meaning in this case?
“Take a different trek”…to “timeless” Burma
Thanks Richard,
The last time I had reason to buy Kyat the going rate was 1340 to the Dollar. The “unofficial” rate does bobble up and down quite considerably.
I am not sure if the “official” rate (like the one given by this conversion webiste) really matters that much – although it is of some academic interest. Buying 6 Kyat to the dollar would, as you know, make visiting Burma a very expensive proposition!
Best wishes to all, and thanks for your comments.
Back to the 1970s
nganadeeleg: Parinya’s article is on Prachatai at
http://www.prachatai.com/05web/th/home/page2.php?mod=mod_ptcms&ContentID=7965&SystemModuleKey=HilightNews&System_Session_Language=Thai
Still, his recalculation of the 2005 result according to the German model seems to be incorrect, meaning that his absolute figures for the votes each party received on the party list is correct, but not the percentages. Since he obviously used them for the calculation of seats, they turn out to be too low, even if one considers that he had counted all parties, not merely including Mahachon. His percentage for all others seem to be 8.44, when in fact it was only 4.63%.
This is a first impression. I will have to read his piece more en detail.
“Take a different trek”…to “timeless” Burma
I checked your link to current currency rates and gasped, it may have been a year or two since I actually looked and the rates but it seems to me that the Kyat is still much higher than it was not too long ago.
This site also gives close to the same amount 1US Dollar (USD) = 6.16260 Myanmar Kyat (MMK), perhaps I am remembering past black market values which I know have declined over the last couple years but hasn’t this “official” rate risen dramatically?
YouTube vs Thai dictatorship: The saga continues
Afreethai: As Streckfuss and nganadeeleg have suggested on this blog: why not follow some European examples and make the application of lese majeste dependent on a complaint by the monarch, instead of letting all sorts of people play their more or less dirty political games with this law by accusing those they don’t like.
Phil Thornton on General Bo Mya
I recently returned from the Thai-Burma border area near Mae Sot and Umphaing. Although there are still many upheavals going on there and IDPs fleeing the fighting now mainly between the KNU and DKBA and others, I believe there is still a real chance for peace based on the continuing negotiation efforts with the Burmese government in Rangoon originally begun by Gen. Saw Bo Mya. Prior to his death. he entrusted this effort to Gen. Htain Maung and Col. Thera Lermu who are working towards the vision Bo Mya had of a just and honorable peace. Like Bo Mya’s initial peace initiative, these continuing peace efforts have not been well received by the KNUs political arm to the point that they are killing their own people including a local Karen Pastor Po Aye in March 2007 and also attempted the assassination of Col. Lermu and others as well as recently as April 2007. Even so, I believe the efforts will meet with success and the Karens will rally around it once a peace aggrement is finally reached. regards, Doc K.
Has the coup been good for democracy?
Afreethai: The point is that Thaksin, whatever he might have done to democracy, was not toppled because people wanted to defend this system. This merely is an ex-post facto rationalization to make things look better. Or one might say that the pro-democracy effects, if any, are unintended side effects.
One thing is for sure, the references to democracy come in handy for the scores of academics who have joined military-appointed bodies of various kinds. Thaksin had mostly excluded them from politics. Thus, they were quite hungry after having fasted for five years. In 1991, when NIDA’s Thinapan Nakata joined Suchinda, there was harsh criticism of him. Nowadays, very few people see anything problematic in intellectuals joining a military coup regime.
Long time ago, Noam Chomsky had written a book on “The Responsibility of Intellectuals.” I wonder whether this is available in Thai university libraries.