This is not about “political bias,” but about “political opinion.” Moreover, it is not about an issue of only marginal significance, but rather about a very important element of the Thai political discourse. If this is not worthy of discussion, then nothing is.
Certainly, for me in Thailand, it would be very regrettable if we saw no move from ‘seniors’ amid the nation-wide conflict while the political leader could not manage anything but instigating + provoking ‘violence’ among factions. You people outside Thailand should go to library and read old papers on the events before sept 19. (If you still have belief in news fact or photos fact.).
>>I would even go so far as to say, that this silence bespeaks of a desire to limit even appreciative discourse to very narrowly defined forms of expression
In the absence of any real information, of course, what you get is a lot of unpublishable rumour, usually only half approximating the truth.
Anyway, I hope these little notes don’t in themselves commit any crime, because I truly do respect and admire His Majesty the King.
You seem to have missed the point that nobody was against trying him for vandalism, just like any adolescent who vandalized a telephone booth. People objected to having him tried for lese majeste.
The most recent case of local political violence was the double murder of the former major and deputy major of tambon municipality Thamuang in amphoe Thamuang, Kanchanaburi province. This happened in the context of the run-up to the new election after the term of the council/mayors had come to an end (as reported in Matichon, April 4, 2007, p. 8).
Not all cases are seemingly as clear-cut as this one, since one cannot always easily decide whether at the bottom of things is a business or a political conflict. After all, most local politicians have business interests. Moreover, in rural areas, killing one’s business rival is not an unsual method of “solving” a conflict, even if no politics are involved at all.
“In fact since we have elected board in local level, we have esperienced bloody fighting among local politicians…really it’s bloody…politics in village is in influential locals firmly, not much different from old days.”
Does the contesting of local leadership positions and power in local elections ever lead to increases in violence? (This is something that could proven or disproven, but the information is not in the library. It is in the field. Buried in Nelson’s study of Democracy in Chachoengso is the murder of a campaign worker working on the opposite side from the candidate with more local chao paw like connections)
Even if an act of violence is reported in the newspaper, the significance of that act of violence, the motives behind the violence, is not usually reported, and even if there is speculation in this regard, the case is usually not solved conclusively in the end.
“Poor Thailand, academics usually follow western model naively without understanding much Thai cultural background.”
IMHO the problem is not models or theories, it’s not digging deep enough for info. The discussion of decentralisation fits this bill. I always hear it discussed in the abstract without examples. Other countries face similar problems as Thailand in decentralisation of education for instance, Mexico is one example I was struck by similarities when Brad DeLong mentioned it in his NAFTA speech. Across the world, there are many possibilities for comparison and spotting similarities.
If that guy vandalised any other public or private properties in Thailand, would it be OK if he was tried?
So what and where is the point? It’s all about ‘political stand’ right?
It seems that talking MONARCHY is becoming prime focus for some ‘progressive’ inside and outside Thailand since the Coup.
I would like to tell them that lese majeste crime means exactly to harm physically the royalties, or to instigate the regime change (removing the monarchy), or any kind of propaganda without any academic aspects.
And I do really agree with the first comment on academics ‘privilege’.
I’m not kind of royalist but i do not stand by one who deny right of people who respect the royals or holding kind of ‘royalism’.
I’m for freedom of belief, religious or political as long as it’s not ‘tyranny’.
For the Swiss man who was caught. Are you really OK with his conduct? Imagine what do you think if that guy destroy any public property such as telephone cabin, or religious items in any temples?
Shouldwe give him a kiss, smile and say OK, very well done?
And for the Swiss guy, he was pardoned by the King already; the Right guaranteed by Law.
Maybe we in Thailand have to bear ‘bitter’ way to ‘democracy’ in every levels of society.
In fact since we have elected board in local level, we have esperienced bloody fighting among local politicians…really it’s bloody…
politics in village is in influential locals firmly, not much different from old days.
Poor Thailand, academics usually follow western model naively without understanding much Thai cultural background.
One major problem in writing about the present day Thai constitution (meant in a broader sense of the actual system of conventions in operation, not a drafted official document) is the high level of opaqueness to it all. Even if you wanted to write anything more more than a formulaic appreciative history or description you couldn’t because there is no data, information or sources to really work with, it is all shrouded in mystery. For example: 1. the author of the book “The Revolutionary King” did have access to the palace and did observe things there and did reveal them, but the book is banned. The book is shoddily written, almost like a novel in places, so lacks value as a historical source, perhaps that is why it was banned, or perhaps it is because the book takes jabs at members of the elite sometimes, 2. as for Thais who commit lese majeste the details of what they did are never revealed officially.
I would even go so far as to say, that this silence bespeaks of a desire to limit even appreciative discourse to very narrowly defined forms of expression, as evidenced in the boiler plate appreciative language you find on so many websites, at least in English, perhaps an extension of the Rajasab [Royal Speech] notion? (This of course is not uniquely Thai, there is an extreme formulaic element to Burmese public discourse too, in the evening news and newspaper for instance)
In the absence of any real information, of course, what you get is a lot of unpublishable rumour, usually only half approximating the truth. Anyway, I experienced it first hand at the university I worked at. When the Wife of the Crown Prince was rumoured to be about to attend there, there were also rumours that there was to be an oath of allegiance taken by all staff. And there was anticipations of traffic jams getting into the university, the closing of the office buidlings with armed soldiers telling you to leave. And then during actual ceremonies jockying for position among different elements of Thai society. For example, in one incident during a royal reception the Thai Ajaans were told to get up and move to make room for army and police, but the foreign Ajaans could stay which caused a lot of embarrassment on both sides, coming down as a non-negotiable order, what else was there to do for both sides the foreign and the Thai Ajaans to express their displeasure afterwards. Anyway, I hope these little notes don’t in themselves commit any crime, because I truly do respect and admire His Majesty the King.
This passage by Chang Noi on Anek Laothamatas captured my imagination:
“In the murk stirred up by Thaksin and the generals, prophets have a place. Usually we don’t think of political scientists as prophets, but Anek Laothamatas fits the bill. Just over a decade ago, he asked a question which clicked with middle-class anxiety over the drift of Thai politics. How come the rural majority selects governments at the ballot box, and the urban minority throws them out by protest and scandalization, resulting in chronic instability? His answer was that the rural electorate was trussed up by the patronage of local bosses. The solution was to tighten up rules to keep the bad guys out of parliament, and get rural issues onto the agendas of political parties. This was not just political science but prophesy. The first solution inspired the 1997 Constitution (chief drafter Bowornsak acknowledged Anek’s influence), and the second solution inspired the activists who compiled Thaksin’s rural programme for the 2001 election.”
Compare modern Thailand with the balanced constitution of Venice in the 16th and 17th centuries which was a historical example that seems “almost invented to demonstrate the strengths of functionalism.” The unusual stability of this constitution featured a monarchical, aristocratic, and democratic element. Of course there is also what is known as the “myth of venice” because conflict rather than consensus often drove change. The phrase “equilibrium of antagonisms” also seems to conjure up Thai politics. There seem to be a lot of analogies that can be made been contemporary Thai politlcs and the Venetian balanced constitution, but it is probably more than a conference paper.
I am convinced taht the poor policies coming out of Bangkok to the three provinces are a “big picture” problem. What I mean is that Bangkok folk are soo culturally different than southern Thais they have absolutely no idea how to work with them or understand their greivances. Anyone who has been down there will know just how far away it can feel from siam square and the like…
This same cultural ocean could be said of American/Soviet conflict and American/Arab conflict. I suppose in a way it might even be considered a rehash of Huntington’s argument.
But regardless the central Sino/thai business elite has absolutely no idea what it is like to live in the south. As a result the policies are scattered.
Pig Latin said: But determining futures is exactly what your alluding too Alice with your high maintenence, low maintenence model?
Yes, I suppose I agree, but that’s why my preference would be for option 2 (low maintainance) which tries only to help things from the sidelines rather than impose a solution.
Does anyone know if Thant Myint-U has written any since his London Review of Books essay?
To all who asked if there any progress about panels,
I heard that several proposals/papers were submitted. But I don’t know the number or details. I am working on 2-3 panels (plus one more that features an exciting new subject all by younger Thai scholars, but nothing to do with the current situation). I have not submitted them yet, but will try to do so ASAP.
I also learned during my last visit to Thailand that the organisers are working very hard but there are too few of them for the conference of this scale. Many people told me that their emails to the organisers on logistical and other matters that are non-political have not got response either. Believe it or not, this sounds very Thammasat as I know it.
[…] the murder has now certainly added weight to their claims of suppression and intimidation. [link New Mandala] Posted by Erik Filed in cambodian news, Violence, […]
New Mandala would be very happy to feature proposed paper or panel abstracts for the ICTS conference. Feel free to submit them as a comment to this post or email them to me at [email protected]
[…] New Mandala reader has sent me the following in relation to our previous post on the Khmer Krom Following a series of highly politicised <a href […]
Facebook 
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New ICTS deadline
Some more potential topics have arisen over the last week, including:
– Who is really behind the push for Buddhism to be named the state religion in the new constitution, and what is the motive?
– What impact can foreign lobbyists have on thai politics?
Lucky the deadline has been extended – more potential topics sure to come up over the next month or so.
A royal petition
Please note that many who post comments on this board actually live in Thailand,and closely observe politics on a daily basis.
A Thai Studies boycott?
This is not about “political bias,” but about “political opinion.” Moreover, it is not about an issue of only marginal significance, but rather about a very important element of the Thai political discourse. If this is not worthy of discussion, then nothing is.
A royal petition
Certainly, for me in Thailand, it would be very regrettable if we saw no move from ‘seniors’ amid the nation-wide conflict while the political leader could not manage anything but instigating + provoking ‘violence’ among factions. You people outside Thailand should go to library and read old papers on the events before sept 19. (If you still have belief in news fact or photos fact.).
A Thai Studies boycott?
That is all about political bias then. Worth to discuss?
New ICTS deadline
John wrote-
>>I would even go so far as to say, that this silence bespeaks of a desire to limit even appreciative discourse to very narrowly defined forms of expression
In the absence of any real information, of course, what you get is a lot of unpublishable rumour, usually only half approximating the truth.
Anyway, I hope these little notes don’t in themselves commit any crime, because I truly do respect and admire His Majesty the King.
A Thai Studies boycott?
You seem to have missed the point that nobody was against trying him for vandalism, just like any adolescent who vandalized a telephone booth. People objected to having him tried for lese majeste.
Back to the 1970s
The most recent case of local political violence was the double murder of the former major and deputy major of tambon municipality Thamuang in amphoe Thamuang, Kanchanaburi province. This happened in the context of the run-up to the new election after the term of the council/mayors had come to an end (as reported in Matichon, April 4, 2007, p. 8).
Not all cases are seemingly as clear-cut as this one, since one cannot always easily decide whether at the bottom of things is a business or a political conflict. After all, most local politicians have business interests. Moreover, in rural areas, killing one’s business rival is not an unsual method of “solving” a conflict, even if no politics are involved at all.
Back to the 1970s
“In fact since we have elected board in local level, we have esperienced bloody fighting among local politicians…really it’s bloody…politics in village is in influential locals firmly, not much different from old days.”
Does the contesting of local leadership positions and power in local elections ever lead to increases in violence? (This is something that could proven or disproven, but the information is not in the library. It is in the field. Buried in Nelson’s study of Democracy in Chachoengso is the murder of a campaign worker working on the opposite side from the candidate with more local chao paw like connections)
Even if an act of violence is reported in the newspaper, the significance of that act of violence, the motives behind the violence, is not usually reported, and even if there is speculation in this regard, the case is usually not solved conclusively in the end.
“Poor Thailand, academics usually follow western model naively without understanding much Thai cultural background.”
IMHO the problem is not models or theories, it’s not digging deep enough for info. The discussion of decentralisation fits this bill. I always hear it discussed in the abstract without examples. Other countries face similar problems as Thailand in decentralisation of education for instance, Mexico is one example I was struck by similarities when Brad DeLong mentioned it in his NAFTA speech. Across the world, there are many possibilities for comparison and spotting similarities.
Oliver Jufer, royal graffiti and global news
If that guy vandalised any other public or private properties in Thailand, would it be OK if he was tried?
So what and where is the point? It’s all about ‘political stand’ right?
A Thai Studies boycott?
It seems that talking MONARCHY is becoming prime focus for some ‘progressive’ inside and outside Thailand since the Coup.
I would like to tell them that lese majeste crime means exactly to harm physically the royalties, or to instigate the regime change (removing the monarchy), or any kind of propaganda without any academic aspects.
And I do really agree with the first comment on academics ‘privilege’.
I’m not kind of royalist but i do not stand by one who deny right of people who respect the royals or holding kind of ‘royalism’.
I’m for freedom of belief, religious or political as long as it’s not ‘tyranny’.
For the Swiss man who was caught. Are you really OK with his conduct? Imagine what do you think if that guy destroy any public property such as telephone cabin, or religious items in any temples?
Shouldwe give him a kiss, smile and say OK, very well done?
And for the Swiss guy, he was pardoned by the King already; the Right guaranteed by Law.
Back to the 1970s
Maybe we in Thailand have to bear ‘bitter’ way to ‘democracy’ in every levels of society.
In fact since we have elected board in local level, we have esperienced bloody fighting among local politicians…really it’s bloody…
politics in village is in influential locals firmly, not much different from old days.
Poor Thailand, academics usually follow western model naively without understanding much Thai cultural background.
New ICTS deadline
One major problem in writing about the present day Thai constitution (meant in a broader sense of the actual system of conventions in operation, not a drafted official document) is the high level of opaqueness to it all. Even if you wanted to write anything more more than a formulaic appreciative history or description you couldn’t because there is no data, information or sources to really work with, it is all shrouded in mystery. For example: 1. the author of the book “The Revolutionary King” did have access to the palace and did observe things there and did reveal them, but the book is banned. The book is shoddily written, almost like a novel in places, so lacks value as a historical source, perhaps that is why it was banned, or perhaps it is because the book takes jabs at members of the elite sometimes, 2. as for Thais who commit lese majeste the details of what they did are never revealed officially.
I would even go so far as to say, that this silence bespeaks of a desire to limit even appreciative discourse to very narrowly defined forms of expression, as evidenced in the boiler plate appreciative language you find on so many websites, at least in English, perhaps an extension of the Rajasab [Royal Speech] notion? (This of course is not uniquely Thai, there is an extreme formulaic element to Burmese public discourse too, in the evening news and newspaper for instance)
In the absence of any real information, of course, what you get is a lot of unpublishable rumour, usually only half approximating the truth. Anyway, I experienced it first hand at the university I worked at. When the Wife of the Crown Prince was rumoured to be about to attend there, there were also rumours that there was to be an oath of allegiance taken by all staff. And there was anticipations of traffic jams getting into the university, the closing of the office buidlings with armed soldiers telling you to leave. And then during actual ceremonies jockying for position among different elements of Thai society. For example, in one incident during a royal reception the Thai Ajaans were told to get up and move to make room for army and police, but the foreign Ajaans could stay which caused a lot of embarrassment on both sides, coming down as a non-negotiable order, what else was there to do for both sides the foreign and the Thai Ajaans to express their displeasure afterwards. Anyway, I hope these little notes don’t in themselves commit any crime, because I truly do respect and admire His Majesty the King.
New ICTS deadline
This passage by Chang Noi on Anek Laothamatas captured my imagination:
“In the murk stirred up by Thaksin and the generals, prophets have a place. Usually we don’t think of political scientists as prophets, but Anek Laothamatas fits the bill. Just over a decade ago, he asked a question which clicked with middle-class anxiety over the drift of Thai politics. How come the rural majority selects governments at the ballot box, and the urban minority throws them out by protest and scandalization, resulting in chronic instability? His answer was that the rural electorate was trussed up by the patronage of local bosses. The solution was to tighten up rules to keep the bad guys out of parliament, and get rural issues onto the agendas of political parties. This was not just political science but prophesy. The first solution inspired the 1997 Constitution (chief drafter Bowornsak acknowledged Anek’s influence), and the second solution inspired the activists who compiled Thaksin’s rural programme for the 2001 election.”
Compare modern Thailand with the balanced constitution of Venice in the 16th and 17th centuries which was a historical example that seems “almost invented to demonstrate the strengths of functionalism.” The unusual stability of this constitution featured a monarchical, aristocratic, and democratic element. Of course there is also what is known as the “myth of venice” because conflict rather than consensus often drove change. The phrase “equilibrium of antagonisms” also seems to conjure up Thai politics. There seem to be a lot of analogies that can be made been contemporary Thai politlcs and the Venetian balanced constitution, but it is probably more than a conference paper.
ICG, Southern Thailand and the coup
I am convinced taht the poor policies coming out of Bangkok to the three provinces are a “big picture” problem. What I mean is that Bangkok folk are soo culturally different than southern Thais they have absolutely no idea how to work with them or understand their greivances. Anyone who has been down there will know just how far away it can feel from siam square and the like…
This same cultural ocean could be said of American/Soviet conflict and American/Arab conflict. I suppose in a way it might even be considered a rehash of Huntington’s argument.
But regardless the central Sino/thai business elite has absolutely no idea what it is like to live in the south. As a result the policies are scattered.
Liberating Burma with $2 million a year?
Pig Latin said: But determining futures is exactly what your alluding too Alice with your high maintenence, low maintenence model?
Yes, I suppose I agree, but that’s why my preference would be for option 2 (low maintainance) which tries only to help things from the sidelines rather than impose a solution.
Does anyone know if Thant Myint-U has written any since his London Review of Books essay?
New ICTS deadline
To all who asked if there any progress about panels,
I heard that several proposals/papers were submitted. But I don’t know the number or details. I am working on 2-3 panels (plus one more that features an exciting new subject all by younger Thai scholars, but nothing to do with the current situation). I have not submitted them yet, but will try to do so ASAP.
I also learned during my last visit to Thailand that the organisers are working very hard but there are too few of them for the conference of this scale. Many people told me that their emails to the organisers on logistical and other matters that are non-political have not got response either. Believe it or not, this sounds very Thammasat as I know it.
Khmer Krom journalist murdered
[…] the murder has now certainly added weight to their claims of suppression and intimidation. [link New Mandala] Posted by Erik Filed in cambodian news, Violence, […]
New ICTS deadline
New Mandala would be very happy to feature proposed paper or panel abstracts for the ICTS conference. Feel free to submit them as a comment to this post or email them to me at [email protected]
Khmer Krom
[…] New Mandala reader has sent me the following in relation to our previous post on the Khmer Krom Following a series of highly politicised <a href […]