Comments

  1. Christine Gray says:

    Dear Gazza;
    Because I’m a cultural anthropologist, and because the Palace for centuries has perfected this kind of theatre as art form. These are new and quite clever variations.
    See Wales (1931), Gray (1986, 1991, 1982, 1995). Or see Ilse Hayden’s (1987) “Symbol and Privilege.” The latter is quite fun. You can get it off of Amazon for one penny, I think.
    An outside, westernized reading strips away cultural symbolism, like the circumambulation, role of monks and astrologers, etc. the top man, from kings to leaders of the 1932 revolution, usually organized events, including secret planning meets, around their own fortuitous numbers and colors. Check out Judith Stowe’s 1991 “Siam becomes Thailand.” Yes, the color red has many meanings, but I’d be surprised if someone in the pack didn’t know it was the apposition color to the day yellow. Certainly His Majesty’s astrologers would.
    Similarly, there are many, many meanings to references to dogs, in Thai and western cultures, rarely complimentary. Japanese nobles, during World War II, had pet dogs, I gather, making it clear to their subordinates and slaves that the pampered dogs ate far better than them in a time of starvation. In general, dog:people references are forms of satire and insult, in both cultures, and the Thai monarchy is certainly global in its cultural understandings. Certainly royals and high-ranking personages were on more than familiar terms with Japan during WWII Banker-satirist Kukrit Pramoj paraded his dogs in hats, as I recall, as a means of satirizing the cultural dress prescriptions of commoner Phibul Songkram, who would usurp the prerogatives (and capital flows) of kings. Phibun came to the bad end. Not Kukrit’s dogs.

  2. Nick Nostitz says:

    Anybody who tries to tell me in a way that somewhat reminiscent of Stalinist tactics that what i have seen is the opposite of what i have seen will not get a friendly response from me.
    And yes, indeed, distance is at times necessary, and will help in analyses. In some way i long for some distance. However, as long as facts and witness accounts presented by people such as me, who have day in day out followed this for the past ten years, are accepted. If these facts though are refuted by flimsy excuses such as brought here, and reasoned by strange brainobatics such as the agent provocateur argument – just because what should not be therefore is not – this distance leads to nothing but poison propaganda, is an obstruction to any attempt of truth finding, and this way serves the forces that would prefer to make 2010 disappear from the history books more than anyone else by helping in building their mountain of lies surrounding 2010. The more lies, the more difficult to find the truth.

    Right now i have Jim Taylor who has a long track record of propagandist articles and papers with untenable claims such as the one that hundreds died during the 2010 crackdown, or the miserable paper on the Central World fire, who rarely is on the ground, and is hardly known by anyone, and who never made the effort to meet with me to talk over our different views. Then i have “Felix” – who can’t even bring up the courage to comment under his real name, and who claims that i am wrong because i do not present evidence that would betray the confidence of my sources and would be against journalistic ethics. Who here is the agent provocateur?

    And no, i am not the only one who has seen armed militants, and knows of their existence. But same as anyone who comes out stating of having seen them we are faced with a barrage of personal discrediting tactics – attacking our professional credibility, our personal integrity, even our mental stability on occasion. This is truly disgusting, and unfortunately it only serves the yellow hate mongers who claim that New Mandala is a propaganda machine of the Red Shirts.

    7 1/2 years ago i started publishing articles here at New Mandala on what takes place on the streets, trying t replace and add to the quite insufficient local reporting, and i have always observed journalistic ethics, such as corroboration of information, protection of sources and factual reporting. I have been much attacked by Yellow Shirts for writing and photographing uncomfortable truths. Some extremist, and mostly Farang, Red Shirts are now doing the same because what i state does not suit their narrative, and at the same time they lacked the courage to go where they could have seen reality.

    The same way i have not allowed the Yellow Alliance to force me to follow their narrative, i will not allow any Red Shirt to force me to follow their narrative either. However, and fortunately, the Red Shirts i have known since almost ten years, both ordinary protesters and leadership level, are more open minded than you Farang Red Shirt propagandists.

    And now i am getting really tired of this.

  3. Chris Beale says:

    Shane Tarr – you may have lost your previous left-wing principles to the dogs. But certainly NOT your Irish\ Antipodean sense of humour !!

  4. Nick Nostitz says:

    First of all – i have never stated that there is an “military force, existing under a chain of command and capable of mounting strategic interventions against the Thai military that is involved under the umbrella of the “Red Shirts” “.
    What i have stated is there there are groups of armed militants within the Red Shirts, however not under UDD control and hierarchy, but from free underground groups. They do work according to their own strategies, some successful, some not, and have over the years developed, and continue to do so. naturally they are not capable of fighting the Thai military successfully. We have seen that already in 2010, when they may have won one street battle on April 10, but ultimately could not stop the dispersal. As to the M79 grenade at Big C, yes, it was a horrible incident, and should not have happened. In war they call that “collateral damage”. The culprits however have straight away confessed when they were caught and taken responsibility. As far as i am aware they have not redacted their confession.

    Lack of independent evidence there is not: There are videos and pictures taken by others independently from me – especially of April 10, 2010, when the misnomer “Men in Black was first coined. There is footage also from May 19 by several news outlets.

    As to evidence, i have seen them operating on several occasions in both 2010 and 2014, and i am not the only one. In journalism there is a rule of protection of sources, and i will not betray this rule under any circumstances, regardless your attempts of trying to discredit me.
    When you state that such armed militants do not exist, that only means that you have never seen them. Which means that you have not been close enough.

    The accusation that i have described Crispin as “stinking like a pig” is pure slander. I have written that he was “sweating like a pig” (which by the way, i have done as well) – which is an established idiom in the English language, and as i pointed out, linguistically it is related to the smelting process and pig iron, as pigs do not even have the necessary glands to be able to sweat. Pigs do not sweat. Pig iron does.

    For this accusation alone you should issue an apology.

  5. Gazza says:

    Honestly, Christine, how could you possibly attribute such intelligence, subtlety and humor to those you speak of? I think its just an unholy complicated mess unfolding – albeit a dangerous one for those too close to it.

  6. Felix says:

    Nick, why the personal nastiness in your response to Jim?

    So what if someone flies in once every few months? Maybe they will learn and see something you haven’t? That’s possible you know – that someone might have a better insight than you on aspects of what is going on.

    Sometimes distance from a situation can be a good thing and maybe someone who is outside Thailand but has inside knowledge can write/say/publish things that those inside can’t. Have you ever considered that?

    Here’s an example – Andrew Marshall, who has not been in Thailand for years and hasn’t lived there since 2003. Equally a lot of stuff he’s written/published has been based on rumor, speculation and hearsay.

    Whilst I don’t agree with Jim’s claim that 100s died in 2009 and don’t agree all those who used violence in 2010 were agent provocateurs, I equally don’t agree with your claims that there’s some mysterious armed wing out there – that only you’ve seen and which you can never accurately divulge – just waiting to make its strategic intervention. To me, at least, it seems all we have is your – as you put it – “absurd exaggeration” that they exist.

    As you state we need to see the evidence – but that applies to you as much as it does Jim.

    I guess when you leave Thailand and return to Germany we’ll get to see all the evidence then.

  7. Anonymous says:

    The key element missing is that Thailand once was part of the a Vedic empire as such the obsession for white skin comes from the fact that the Vedic Aryans were indeed white skinned as described in the vedic literatures themselves. The Brahminical classes once ruled this great nation up until there own decline, this being the point the Brahmin families started claiming their brahminical status as a birth right as opposed to a qualification of nobel character. As the empire declined after many thousands of years the White skinned Aryans started to breed with the aboriginal indigenous peoples. This is the actual history like it or not hence the Thai obsession with being white skinned!

  8. Felix says:

    Nick, there is no military force, existing under a chain of command and capable of mounting strategic interventions against the Thai military that is involved under the umbrella of the “Red Shirts” or the UDD or the pro-democracy forces or however else it can be described.

    You might think it exists but it doesn’t. It might do in the future but from 2010 to 2014 it didn’t exist.

    And no, firing an M79 randomly into the PDRC protest group, killing kids playing by a department store, is not the work of a disciplined military force making strategic interventions.

    Also to make a claim that someone challenging your fantasy is therefore a “propagandist” is just very weak ad hom. People can disagree with you without them being “propagandists” or “stinking like a pig” (as you once described Shawn Crispin).

    Despite sticking to your claims of having some special “access” and knowledge of these armed groups you’ve not ever provided one scintilla of independent evidence to back them up. Everyone is just supposed to take your word for it and if anyone challenges you, you then become nasty.

    When you provide corroborated evidence of your mythical “armed” wing that’s capable of strategic interventions I’ll be happy to ask New Mandala to remove these comments and replace them with an apology.

  9. R. N. England says:

    Can you imagine a European monarch or a rational leader anywhere giving a speech like that? Even George III would have been politely but firmly ushered off the podium and given some emergency treatment, for the benefit of his health and the country’s reputation. The only consistent theme in the potpourri of ravings is what seems to be a call, indirect but repeated ad nauseam, for his prime minister’s overthrow. The speech indicates pretty clearly that he was already suffering from dementia in 2005. His toadies were evidently so afraid of being denounced as traitors that all they could do was nod and pretend to understand its hidden wisdom. Therein lies absolutist Thailand’s tragedy. The dementia has gone national.

  10. Emjay says:

    Cantal: If you are going to make unsupported overly simplistic generalizations about Thai politics on New Mandala it’s better if they say just about the opposite of what you have said.

    Then you get lots of greens and no one will ever question your assertions.

    It’s a team sport on here and critical thinking is something Thais lack and NM commenters have no need of, being “good people” all.

  11. Ohn says:

    Min Aung Hlaing would be delighted to be regarded as such but Gwyneth Platrow has better chance to become the Queen of England.

    Thein Sein with Ma-hne-lay voice surely (even though perhaps he missed out Nich’s Nobel Peace Prize) was correct choice but then again for his own petty reckoning Than Shwe has not put a toe in a wrong place so far.

    Poor States Department. Poor Council for Foreign Relations. Poor Chatham House. Poor International Crisis Group. Poor Xi.

  12. Ohn says:

    “the west” sure would be delighted to be duly recognized as custodian of “justice”.

  13. Shane Tarr says:

    My dogs or should I say the kiddie’s dogs are unfortunately not al all like Thong Daeng. I wish I could get them to behave like Thong Daeng but they do all manner of bad things, like reducing the local snake population that only has good intentions (to rid our house of vermin). So if anyone can advise me as to how I could bring a charge under Section 112 it would be most appreciated.

  14. Shawn McHale says:

    As a dog, I’d like to say this to the royal dog: WOOF WOOF!!!! Grrrr . . . . Woof!” (I mean, really!)

    As for dogs wearing human outfits –Grrrr? Rrrrrrrrrr. Yip! Yip! (But please, vary the colors!)

    As for the King: Yipyipyip yip yip!

    And finally, about that Prime Minister: GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!

  15. PlanB says:

    NLD /DASSK must encourage the judges to take courses sponsored by the west to start the beginning of real ROL ball rolling.
    This can be achieved by having the west inviting the higher judiciary personnel and judges to courses specifically geared toward improving current abysmal state of ROl. Convincing the judges to do the ‘right thing must be first.

  16. Moe Aung says:

    How true even on another level with that nice little earner tourism! Must ‘save face’ at all costs, never mind justice and human rights.

  17. Lleij Samuel Schwartz says:

    I think also that the Thai just got tired of having to kriengcai farang. After 200+ years, and seeing the actuality of American democracy, at this historical point they are fed up.

    Thus, a return to Chinese suzerainty, for what other choice do they have? And afterwards, a realization that such a homecoming shall not be as sweet as they imagined. Indeed, the Thai shall learn that the phrase “ф╕Нх╣▓ц╢Й” is just one of many in a long (5000 year plus?) history of Chinese sarcasm.

  18. Moe Aung says:

    I’m with Nich here, Ohn. U Thant’s funeral, a general strike that spread from Myitnge to Insein railyard workers, Thamaing textile workers and Simmalaik dockers all in 1974, not just the new constitution that enshrined one party rule to start the year.

    They released ASSK from house arrest in 2010 just after the polls that November she and her party boycotted although the nominally civilian govt headed by former general Thein Sein did not take office until March 2011.

  19. David Camroux says:

    Further to this post, the Financial Times reported yesterday (24th) that opinion polls the junta commissioned showed a 99% approval rating for its work! Seems that some ungrateful critics cast doubt on the validity of the poll raising doubts on such ‘trivial’ questions as sampling and scientific rigor. How ungrateful.

    General Prayuth himself has demonstrated, yet again, his own benevolence by penning a second song as his New Years gift to the Thai people. The first written just after the May 2014 coup was entitled “Bringing Happiness to the People’. Although no title has been given to the second, according to the FT one of the refrains is “If we join hands … the day we hope for is not far away”.

    Request: could an assiduous Thai reader of New Mandala please provide us all with the You Tube link when it becomes available. After Bing Crosby’s ‘White Christmas’ it may well become a must for the Western festive season.

    Apologies to NM readers for perhaps understating the case for the Thai junta’s capacity for self parody and satire.

  20. Nick Nostitz says:

    Sombat indeed was the first person using Red as the identification color during the anti-2007 constitution activities. Sombat, after Giles Ungpakorn led the first anti-2006 coup protest at Siam Paragon, became the first anti-2006 coup leader, soon closely followed by other groups such as the Saturday Group (which group out of a internet discussion forum), Noc Pilap Khao and the June 24th Group, led by the now imprisoned Somyot.
    Red soon waned, especially after the election campaign and victory of the PPP Party. It made a reappearance during the clash at Makhawan between PAD and UDD in the night from Sept 1 and 2, 2008, when UDD supporters wore Red pieces of cloth on their arms and heads to identify themselves. After the clash, where the first UDD supporter killed, the UDD had a massive identity crisis (several leaders such as Dr. Weng and Prateep briefly left), leading to a revamp into a social mass movement. They restarted with mass events, the first was at Muang Thong Thani’s Thunderdome on Oct. 11, 2008, where UDD supporters Red T-Shirts. I think first the media coined the term Red Shirts (as opposed to the PAD’s Yellow Shirts, and soon the term established itself.