Maybe, one can put this “siege mentality” and the King together with Thai animism? If you feel threatened, you try to collect as many influential deities of all sorts as you can in order to feel safe in your life. In this context, the King might be seen by many people as the super deity with the by far greatest amount of influence impacting on their lives and their wellbeing. So, if he is threatened, this equates to a threat to people’s feeling of being safe in their lives. Thus the strong reactions.
I got the link to Thanong’s article from a friend. This guy–unbelievable…
I guess this hysteria is a reflection of the siege mentality people are in. ‘The west, capitalism, globalization are out to get you!’ ‘Be afraid! Be very afraid! And do whatever your infinitely wise and benevolent leader tell you!’ Jeez.
Now new copycat clips are popping up. While there are talks on banning google in Thailand.. well, might as well ban this whole internet thing, after all it’s just a series of tubes!
JFL: Yes, that was what Ockey said. But my point was that this might not have solely, and perhaps not even primarily, been about the question of succession, but also about a technocratic world view that looked at the way of Thai politics and how Thailand was govered in disgust and thus put its hope in other constructions, such as a “rationalized parliament” and a strong executive. As I mentioned, in France, they did not have the succession question, but still tried to “rationalize” their parliament.
There were quite a number of people who disliked vote buying, weak coalition goverments, lack of policies and leadership etc. who, however, did not link this with the monarchy at all.
The task would be to identify the discursive strands and to measure their respective influence on the constitution drafting exercise at that time. Obviously, this is not an easy task. Sometimes, many strands even come together within a single person. Borwornsak Uwanno, for example, has an outlook that mixes elitist, technocratic, and royalist elements. Or people might have agreed with a constitutional suggestion in the CDA for other reasons than those the originators had in mind.
“…the odd idea of changing Thailand’s name back to Siam. …prominent Thai historian Charnvit Kasetsiri argued that ‘Siam’ was ***more ethnically inclusive*** than ‘Thailand.'”
It’s a nice idea, along with hill tribes being “stewards for the forest” as they supposedly were in the past, but I doubt that peoples’ attitudes towards ethnic minorities would change without a concerted government policy in this direction.
That students laugh at the ethnicity of Akhas (Ikhaw) and Isan (Lao) and do so with impunity from school officials, is what perpetuates this behaviour. Many of them change their names to Thai names to conform, perhaps out of shame or maybe officially, I’m not sure. What I am sure of is that concrete steps should be taken to give these people some self-respect. Not to do so, will simply wipe out some of the wonderful diversity that Thailand is gifted with. These ethnic minorities will simply become Thais and lose their language and culture or become born-again Christians where they can get some self-respect.
Opportunism and sensationalism with the lese majeste was/is bound to happen, given the way they are currently
dealing with the problem.
Censorship, especially unthinking broad brush censorship of something as important nowadays as YouTube, only helps to build audience and traffic, and people will exploit this.
iIn fact, it’s possible that the person who posted it had ***no political goals at all except for drawing attention to themselves***.
The article above implies that the ban was put into place after only 122 people had viewed it. How did the junta know the video was there that quickly?
They don’t seem to be so tech savvy at other times. It doesn’t take a paranoid mind to think that the first 150 or so viewers might have a connection to the originator.
“I look at what he has done over the course of his reign with admiration.” Well, you can do that.
“Perhaps Sawarin is right. It may be that Thai political history is the exclusive, impenetrable preserve of the priestly initiate.” Oh no, that sounds too defeatist.
It is a different video. Much less amateurish, and much more directly political. The message streaming over it directly links it;s statement to a protest over the lese majeste laws and the recent jailing of the Swiss man. The video can be found at the link below:
One of the best ways to protect forests is through primary environmental care, which empowers local communities to manage their resources sustainablly. Sadly, when illegal logging is tied so closely to corruption and violent criminal networks – as it is in Indonesia – communities often find themselves unable to act without suffering further.
That said, I have growing confidence in the abilities of AusAID to manage issues like this, and I too will be very interested to hear more about the mechanics of how the program proceeds.
On another note, it is my understanding that, in Indonesia at least, the main driver behind illegal logging is the fact that timber processing operators have been licenced to process far more timber than is available through legitimate suppliers. And this has its origins in New Order corruption – that is, there are vested interests whose concerns are for the profits of their businesses, not the environment.
An interesting topic indeed. And I agree, Nicholas, that the Australian government’s announcement indicates a certain degree of confidence in its abilities to make a difference. Let’s see it happen.
These people wanted to make Thailand’s government more stable and effective by enabling the prime minister not only to set policy without too much interference from parliament, but also from his own party, and his coalition partners…
They got the strong executive they wanted–but then he became too strong, and not even based on the constitution…
Yes. But isn’t that the point that Ockey made? That I tried to point out by using his quote concerning the 1997 constitution? And on the ascendence of the TRT regime?
As regards what HM the King has worked for… how can I know? How can you know? All we can go by are the results of his life’s work. All of his Royal Projects have focused on the needs of the majority of Thais.
It seems to me that his sufficiency economy is an effort to make the basic village fabric robust in the face of predation by the political class as much as against any other setback.
I think HM the King has been operating in the contexts of restraints, that his actions are circumscribed, as are all of our actions. I look at what he has done over the course of his reign with admiration. I think that as Ockey points out the influence of the monarchy itself comes and goes according to the calculations of people other than HM the King and that HM the King has perservered these past six decades and has done what he can do for the Thai people within the constraints of his position.
Perhaps Sawarin is right. It may be that Thai political history is the exclusive, impenetrable preserve of the priestly initiate.
The clip itself is just childish and not particularly offensive in my eyes – what I find offensive is the motive behind posting such a clip when it would obviously offend many people, and could even inflame violence.
Imagine if someone had a such a picture of the king on the street – how long would he last?
(I’m not saying violence is justified, just that people get very passionate about their loved ones)
I wonder what Thaksin would have done about the clip if he was in power?
My bet is he would have done the same thing as the junta, and then boasted about how he had protected the king and defended the country against foreign inteference.
Dr. Somsak raises an interesting point. Along the same line, a lot of the discussion has focused mostly on the King. What about the Queen? It seems she play much more important if not leading roles in later years, and perhaps with different agenda from the King, but most still do not discuss them separately.
What about this for sufficiency (from Nation, 5 April 2007):
STREET WISE: Linkage and money power
“Money’s not everything, it’s the only thing.” This adage is as universal as ever, particularly when we observe what’s going on in Thai society. In Thai, there is a saying that money can pave the way for anything. Sigve Brekke, CEO of Total Access Communication (DTAC), has been in Thailand long enough to know that. He might not have intended to use the power of money, but money has worked its way in his favour.
Everybody knows that DTAC and TOT have been in a legal row over the access charge for old and new phone numbers. But that is about to change following DTAC’s donation on Monday of SIM cards and phone cards worth a total of Bt14 million to the Council for National Security. Probably due to the huge value of the donations to support CNS’s operations in the South, Brekke – a former deputy defence minister of Norway – finally made his way to personally meet CNS secretary-general General Sonthi Banyaratglin and his deputy General Saprang Kalayanamitr – who happens to be TOT chairman.
On Tuesday evening, Brekke approached the TOT board for a meeting. At the meeting yesterday, he proposed to drop the access-charge lawsuit against TOT and the board reciprocated by saying that TOT would let the court decide on another petition filed by TOT. After the meeting, the board’s spokesman said that what’s done is done and TOT would be ready to talk business with DTAC in the future. Given that Brekke was quoted as saying “If TOT is not strong, private companies like mine cannot be strong,” it is not surprising that the board was so pleased with Brekke. If all other companies would act like DTAC, that would be nice, a board member said.
But for the presence of Saprang in both organisations, the donation to the CNS and the talk with TOT would have been two completely different issues – not linked to show the power of money.
The offending video is still available at YouTube. Even though Reuters has reported that it has been pulled, it seems to have been reposted by someone calling him-/herself thaifreespeech.
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Blocked tube
Maybe, one can put this “siege mentality” and the King together with Thai animism? If you feel threatened, you try to collect as many influential deities of all sorts as you can in order to feel safe in your life. In this context, the King might be seen by many people as the super deity with the by far greatest amount of influence impacting on their lives and their wellbeing. So, if he is threatened, this equates to a threat to people’s feeling of being safe in their lives. Thus the strong reactions.
I got the link to Thanong’s article from a friend. This guy–unbelievable…
Blocked tube
It’s all getting pretty pathetic:
and yet another pathetic op-ed from thanong:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/04/06/opinion/opinion_30031242.php
I guess this hysteria is a reflection of the siege mentality people are in. ‘The west, capitalism, globalization are out to get you!’ ‘Be afraid! Be very afraid! And do whatever your infinitely wise and benevolent leader tell you!’ Jeez.
Now new copycat clips are popping up. While there are talks on banning google in Thailand.. well, might as well ban this whole internet thing, after all it’s just a series of tubes!
A royal petition
JFL: Yes, that was what Ockey said. But my point was that this might not have solely, and perhaps not even primarily, been about the question of succession, but also about a technocratic world view that looked at the way of Thai politics and how Thailand was govered in disgust and thus put its hope in other constructions, such as a “rationalized parliament” and a strong executive. As I mentioned, in France, they did not have the succession question, but still tried to “rationalize” their parliament.
There were quite a number of people who disliked vote buying, weak coalition goverments, lack of policies and leadership etc. who, however, did not link this with the monarchy at all.
The task would be to identify the discursive strands and to measure their respective influence on the constitution drafting exercise at that time. Obviously, this is not an easy task. Sometimes, many strands even come together within a single person. Borwornsak Uwanno, for example, has an outlook that mixes elitist, technocratic, and royalist elements. Or people might have agreed with a constitutional suggestion in the CDA for other reasons than those the originators had in mind.
Blocked tube
Hey! Tor downloads are also blocked!
Thailand? Siam? Who cares?
“…the odd idea of changing Thailand’s name back to Siam. …prominent Thai historian Charnvit Kasetsiri argued that ‘Siam’ was ***more ethnically inclusive*** than ‘Thailand.'”
It’s a nice idea, along with hill tribes being “stewards for the forest” as they supposedly were in the past, but I doubt that peoples’ attitudes towards ethnic minorities would change without a concerted government policy in this direction.
That students laugh at the ethnicity of Akhas (Ikhaw) and Isan (Lao) and do so with impunity from school officials, is what perpetuates this behaviour. Many of them change their names to Thai names to conform, perhaps out of shame or maybe officially, I’m not sure. What I am sure of is that concrete steps should be taken to give these people some self-respect. Not to do so, will simply wipe out some of the wonderful diversity that Thailand is gifted with. These ethnic minorities will simply become Thais and lose their language and culture or become born-again Christians where they can get some self-respect.
Blocked tube
Opportunism and sensationalism with the lese majeste was/is bound to happen, given the way they are currently
dealing with the problem.
Censorship, especially unthinking broad brush censorship of something as important nowadays as YouTube, only helps to build audience and traffic, and people will exploit this.
iIn fact, it’s possible that the person who posted it had ***no political goals at all except for drawing attention to themselves***.
Siamese Northern Exposure
[…] and origins of the word “Siam” can consult the TLC archive for April 2007. (An early New Mandala post may also be of […]
Blocked tube
The article above implies that the ban was put into place after only 122 people had viewed it. How did the junta know the video was there that quickly?
They don’t seem to be so tech savvy at other times. It doesn’t take a paranoid mind to think that the first 150 or so viewers might have a connection to the originator.
A royal petition
“I look at what he has done over the course of his reign with admiration.” Well, you can do that.
“Perhaps Sawarin is right. It may be that Thai political history is the exclusive, impenetrable preserve of the priestly initiate.” Oh no, that sounds too defeatist.
A royal petition
Sawarin: Sorry, sorry, the coup of 1991. 1988 was the year Chartchai started his turn as prime minister.
A royal petition
Bystander: Is this only a general remark, or do you also want to say that there is a rumor on the coup to this effect circulating in Bangkok?
Blocked tube
It is a different video. Much less amateurish, and much more directly political. The message streaming over it directly links it;s statement to a protest over the lese majeste laws and the recent jailing of the Swiss man. The video can be found at the link below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mUk-XyCgKI
Offending the mainstream
…a profound weakness in Thai civil society…
By the sounds of it, this book is an indication of a profound strength in Thai civil society. It just needs time to mature, perhaps.
Surayud’s “final word” on sufficiency economy
The junta has a cunning plan. If the economy stay on this trajectory long enough, Thailand would have no choice but to adopt sufficiency economy!
Australia protecting Southeast Asia’s trees?
One of the best ways to protect forests is through primary environmental care, which empowers local communities to manage their resources sustainablly. Sadly, when illegal logging is tied so closely to corruption and violent criminal networks – as it is in Indonesia – communities often find themselves unable to act without suffering further.
That said, I have growing confidence in the abilities of AusAID to manage issues like this, and I too will be very interested to hear more about the mechanics of how the program proceeds.
On another note, it is my understanding that, in Indonesia at least, the main driver behind illegal logging is the fact that timber processing operators have been licenced to process far more timber than is available through legitimate suppliers. And this has its origins in New Order corruption – that is, there are vested interests whose concerns are for the profits of their businesses, not the environment.
An interesting topic indeed. And I agree, Nicholas, that the Australian government’s announcement indicates a certain degree of confidence in its abilities to make a difference. Let’s see it happen.
A royal petition
These people wanted to make Thailand’s government more stable and effective by enabling the prime minister not only to set policy without too much interference from parliament, but also from his own party, and his coalition partners…
They got the strong executive they wanted–but then he became too strong, and not even based on the constitution…
Yes. But isn’t that the point that Ockey made? That I tried to point out by using his quote concerning the 1997 constitution? And on the ascendence of the TRT regime?
As regards what HM the King has worked for… how can I know? How can you know? All we can go by are the results of his life’s work. All of his Royal Projects have focused on the needs of the majority of Thais.
It seems to me that his sufficiency economy is an effort to make the basic village fabric robust in the face of predation by the political class as much as against any other setback.
I think HM the King has been operating in the contexts of restraints, that his actions are circumscribed, as are all of our actions. I look at what he has done over the course of his reign with admiration. I think that as Ockey points out the influence of the monarchy itself comes and goes according to the calculations of people other than HM the King and that HM the King has perservered these past six decades and has done what he can do for the Thai people within the constraints of his position.
Perhaps Sawarin is right. It may be that Thai political history is the exclusive, impenetrable preserve of the priestly initiate.
Blocked tube
The clip itself is just childish and not particularly offensive in my eyes – what I find offensive is the motive behind posting such a clip when it would obviously offend many people, and could even inflame violence.
Imagine if someone had a such a picture of the king on the street – how long would he last?
(I’m not saying violence is justified, just that people get very passionate about their loved ones)
I wonder what Thaksin would have done about the clip if he was in power?
My bet is he would have done the same thing as the junta, and then boasted about how he had protected the king and defended the country against foreign inteference.
A royal petition
Dr. Somsak raises an interesting point. Along the same line, a lot of the discussion has focused mostly on the King. What about the Queen? It seems she play much more important if not leading roles in later years, and perhaps with different agenda from the King, but most still do not discuss them separately.
Surayud’s “final word” on sufficiency economy
What about this for sufficiency (from Nation, 5 April 2007):
STREET WISE: Linkage and money power
“Money’s not everything, it’s the only thing.” This adage is as universal as ever, particularly when we observe what’s going on in Thai society. In Thai, there is a saying that money can pave the way for anything. Sigve Brekke, CEO of Total Access Communication (DTAC), has been in Thailand long enough to know that. He might not have intended to use the power of money, but money has worked its way in his favour.
Everybody knows that DTAC and TOT have been in a legal row over the access charge for old and new phone numbers. But that is about to change following DTAC’s donation on Monday of SIM cards and phone cards worth a total of Bt14 million to the Council for National Security. Probably due to the huge value of the donations to support CNS’s operations in the South, Brekke – a former deputy defence minister of Norway – finally made his way to personally meet CNS secretary-general General Sonthi Banyaratglin and his deputy General Saprang Kalayanamitr – who happens to be TOT chairman.
On Tuesday evening, Brekke approached the TOT board for a meeting. At the meeting yesterday, he proposed to drop the access-charge lawsuit against TOT and the board reciprocated by saying that TOT would let the court decide on another petition filed by TOT. After the meeting, the board’s spokesman said that what’s done is done and TOT would be ready to talk business with DTAC in the future. Given that Brekke was quoted as saying “If TOT is not strong, private companies like mine cannot be strong,” it is not surprising that the board was so pleased with Brekke. If all other companies would act like DTAC, that would be nice, a board member said.
But for the presence of Saprang in both organisations, the donation to the CNS and the talk with TOT would have been two completely different issues – not linked to show the power of money.
Blocked tube
The offending video is still available at YouTube. Even though Reuters has reported that it has been pulled, it seems to have been reposted by someone calling him-/herself thaifreespeech.