Srithanonchai, of course you are right that the living conditions of the rural population have improved a lot during the last years (maybe also because of the “populist policies that pander to the unprincipled wants and needs of the people”) – still I think there are a lot of disparities between Bangkok and the rural areas, especially when it comes to political representation and to educational standards. I still think that some kind of affirmative action regarding people from the more impoverished areas of Thailand could ease the rifts in Thai society.
I just wanted to say that at the time of that coup (in Turkey) there was a great amount of critisism – also remember a call for the boycott of turkish goods and holidays in Turkey (I hope I don’t confuse this with some previous coups) – and if it would happen today probably everyone (that is of course exaggerated) wuld be happy with it.
Kasian, in his Matichon article of March 2, envisages a return to the pre-Thaksin era, and the time before May 1992, when the military was sent back to their barracks. Surely, the stature of the military in the Thai polity has increased tremendously with this coup. This will be complemented by weak politics, as is currently being engineered by the CDC. Then, maybe, as polo indicates, there might be some elements of Premocracy, too. Most importantly, the monarchy will have been pushed to centre stage. Thus, we will have weak politics, weak people, strong military/bureaucracy, within the framework of a royalist set-up.
“countryside that will raise the current miserable living standards” >> I am not sure when was the last time Ajan Kasian left his Thammasat office or Bangkok intellectual circles for having a look at the Thai countryside. It just doesn’t make any good sense to keep repeating the old cliches about the impoverished rural areas outside Bangkok. There certainly are those areas, but for developing realistic policy suggestions, one will need to arrive at a more realistic assessment, and take stock of the immense changes that have taken place during the past two decades. In fact, New Mandala had this discussion a while ago, initiated byh Khun Jopha.
“The western world” is a mightily big collective — too big, I think. What is more interesting is that the AFP article mentioned that, on the occasion of the 10th anniversary, there is considerable debate in Turkey as to the virtue of that coup. Big mainstream newspapers seem to think that the coup was necessary to secure Turkey’s fragile democracy. I wonder what the discussion will look like in Thailand–10 years from now…
These articles are in fact terribly disappointing: sloppily composed, devoid of quantitative data, and overhyped. Not even close to the standard set by Phaisan Sicharatchanya in his classic piece on the same topic for the FEER some two decades ago. The role of CPB greed in destroying parts of Bangkok is a serious matter; it requires far more serious treatment than these articles offer. The influence of this “Michael Selby” character, mentioned just once in the articles, requires real investigation. So does the conduct of Chirayu around the time of the 1997 crisis. And what of the CPB’s rural landholdings, on which Phaisan shed valuable light? Did the Asia Sentinel’s correspondent pay a visit to the Commerce Ministry, whose registration files would show far, far more about the CPB’s activities than the fairly obvious ramblings offered here? Too, there is the immense irony of the CPB’s plan to level the Silom Club. For, in the rear of the club’s main room, hanging just over the entrance to the “members only” locker room, is a portraint of the club’s founder. None other than Chao Phraya Sithammathibet, whose role in making the monarchy and the king what they are today Paul Handley has explained. That “the king’s conglomerate” may now level the club speaks, I think, for itself.
Now that Thaksin is toppled, we now could “fight for a thorough-going reform and development policy for the countryside that will raise the current miserable living standards” – and please don’t tell me that this is what sufficiency economy is all about.
Thanks Srithanonchai for the recommendation, I just read the first pages on Amazon and it seems interesting reading “Reporter operate as channels for the pronouncements of ‘big shots’, both senior bureaucrats and party politicians” – that is exactly also my impression of the Thai press.
Amateur, I forgot to add that the 1997 coup in Turkey was not widely accepted at that time (1997 the western world was not so busy fighting muslim fundamentalism) – but if you want to prove your point just mention Pakistan.
No Amateur, I haven’t forgotten Sondhi – and while I agree that it was more a personal matter, I don’t regard his conspiration theories (like Finland-plan and “Thaksin wants to sell Phuket to Singapore etc) as serious and investigative journalism.
Back to the early 1980s of Prem — or perhaps Thanom-Praphas?
Bangkok Post
Friday March 02, 2007
CNS moves to tighten army’s grip
Officers to be deputy governors for security
The Council for National Security yesterday unveiled plans to appoint military officers as deputy governors for security affairs in all 76 provincial administrations across the country, an army source said. The CNS was also working to double the tenure of village heads from five to 10 years, the source added.
Srithanonchai, thanks for reminding… The western world accepts the Turkish military as it is regarded as a force to keep islamistic forces checked. This reflects the double morale of the west (see Iran as a comparison).
To clearify, I do not sympathise with the Thai military in any way and I wish the new election to come as soon as possible. Unfortunately, I am not that deep into Thai politics to comment on every personality like Pridiyathorn.
21Jan – you may have already forgotten Sondhi, the media moghul. Without him and his investigation there wouldn’t have been such a movement against Thaksin. However, I never get lost of the impression that it is a personal thing that drives him against the ex-premier. And now he is silent. Very suspicious.
Well, I haven’t eaten wisdom with spoons so I prefer to sit back and observe…
The last two sentences sound a little bit as if, at that time, Kasian would opt for eliminating the party-list system, in order to reduce the perceived “presidential” element of Thaksin’s use of power. I am not sure, but presently, he seem to tend to see this as a reduction of popular sovereignty and a “relocalization of national politics” (Matichon, March 2, 2007, p. 6, on р╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕нр╕Ър╣Ар╕ер╕╖р╕нр╕Бр╕Хр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕Шр╕┤р╕Ыр╣Др╕Хр╕вр╕Бр╕│р╕ер╕▒р╕Зр╕Ир╕░р╕Бр╕ер╕▒р╕Ър╕бр╕▓).
One might add a perspective by pointing to the issue of inclusion, ie. the expansion of suffrage. Western European social or welfare states (i.e., more public goods) are based on this expansion. In other words, those selected were forced by the electoral structures (institutional incentives) to be more responsive, which translates into more policies. This has not been without problems, as many Western European states’ problems with their budgets demonstrate…
There are also other problems with the Thai press that makes it unable to fulfill “its role”. One you can see on the picture: Those are mostly young people–at government house! This tells us something about how “news” are acquired, and how news are looked at in Thai newspapers. Besides, ever come across the Thai-style front-page article that consists of statements by more or less well-known academics giving their opinions in a “serious” western-style political newspaper?
For some further insights, and a strong western-normative attack on the lack of professionalism of Thai newspapers, see Duncan McCargo. 2000. Politics and the Press in Thailand: Media Machinations. London and New York: Routledge. (Rethinking Southeast Asia) vii+205 pp. (Pa-perback edition of the same title Bangkok: Garuda Press, 2002. x+300 pp.)
Yes Jon, it is a good thing for the villagers that they can make a living with the sandwiches and that they don’t have to leave their village for work, but we have to use the right terminology: this has absolutely nothing to do with sufficiency economy (not in the kings sense, not in the juntas sense, not in anyones sense) and the fact that everything good for the rural population is attributed to the sufficiency economy is pure propaganda.
Regarding your reference to Marx I dream of the day when all people (or at least a great percentage) of Northeastern descent in Bangkok, Phuket and Pattaya and elsewhere in the industrial and touristic centers go on strike for one day – that would be really a wakeup-call for the elitist Bangkokians who think that they run the country.
And this “Thai cooperative style” is the main reason that the press is Thailand doesn’t contributes to the checks and balances of the society (as it does in the Western world). A bit more “grilling” would have been better – in this case, but also before the coup concerning the previous government. It seems to me that the press is usually waiting for statements from government-agencies – investigative journalism seems to be largely unknown in Thailand (if Nixon would have been Thai-PM, he still would be in power)
I had not read Kasian’s article before – it makes excellent reading in light of recent events.
I particularly liked his comparison of Thaksin & Sondhi.
The junta needs to read Kasian’s last paragraph so it can re-focus it’s activities:
“How best should this regime be targeted? One priority must be the fight for a thorough-going reform and development policy for the countryside that will raise the current miserable living standards without creating widespread indebtedness, and will guarantee a real improvement in rural healthcare. But the immediate task should be to remove the linchpin of the corrupt and criminalized system, who should face the due process of law for the crimes alleged against him–the scores of extra-judicial killings that have been sanctioned in the cities and the South, and the Shin Corporation’s tax-free privatization of national assets. The malfunctioning constitutional bodies, set up as checks and balances, need to be thoroughly investigated and, if necessary, purged of crony members, as a prerequisite to the establishment of the rule of law–as urgent in the South as elsewhere. Finally, the ambiguities of the 1997 Constitution need to be revisited, and its concentration of executive powers in the hands of a presidential prime minister revised. These would be the minimum legal-political requirements for transcending Thaksin’s globalized electocracy.”
“Different incentives faced by democracies, autocracies, juntas, oligarchies, etc. Selectorate refers to **those who choose the leader**. Winning coalition’s absolute size and size relative to the selectorate both matter for type of benefits distributed. Large absolute size contributes to more public goods, hence more for general population. Large relative size of winning coalition (relative to size of selectorate) contributes to less **distribution of grafts and booty**.”
Anonymous: How about if the junta slung a few billion baht business deals the way of their family & friends – would that make you happier?
(all tax free, of course – and if required, they should change the laws to allow the deals to happen)
Or perhaps you would prefer some extra-judicial killings?
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Agen Domino Online yg tidak sedikit Dicari Member
Srithanonchai, of course you are right that the living conditions of the rural population have improved a lot during the last years (maybe also because of the “populist policies that pander to the unprincipled wants and needs of the people”) – still I think there are a lot of disparities between Bangkok and the rural areas, especially when it comes to political representation and to educational standards. I still think that some kind of affirmative action regarding people from the more impoverished areas of Thailand could ease the rifts in Thai society.
Sufficiency casualty
I just wanted to say that at the time of that coup (in Turkey) there was a great amount of critisism – also remember a call for the boycott of turkish goods and holidays in Turkey (I hope I don’t confuse this with some previous coups) – and if it would happen today probably everyone (that is of course exaggerated) wuld be happy with it.
Puppet on a string
Kasian, in his Matichon article of March 2, envisages a return to the pre-Thaksin era, and the time before May 1992, when the military was sent back to their barracks. Surely, the stature of the military in the Thai polity has increased tremendously with this coup. This will be complemented by weak politics, as is currently being engineered by the CDC. Then, maybe, as polo indicates, there might be some elements of Premocracy, too. Most importantly, the monarchy will have been pushed to centre stage. Thus, we will have weak politics, weak people, strong military/bureaucracy, within the framework of a royalist set-up.
Agen Domino Online yg tidak sedikit Dicari Member
“countryside that will raise the current miserable living standards” >> I am not sure when was the last time Ajan Kasian left his Thammasat office or Bangkok intellectual circles for having a look at the Thai countryside. It just doesn’t make any good sense to keep repeating the old cliches about the impoverished rural areas outside Bangkok. There certainly are those areas, but for developing realistic policy suggestions, one will need to arrive at a more realistic assessment, and take stock of the immense changes that have taken place during the past two decades. In fact, New Mandala had this discussion a while ago, initiated byh Khun Jopha.
Sufficiency casualty
“The western world” is a mightily big collective — too big, I think. What is more interesting is that the AFP article mentioned that, on the occasion of the 10th anniversary, there is considerable debate in Turkey as to the virtue of that coup. Big mainstream newspapers seem to think that the coup was necessary to secure Turkey’s fragile democracy. I wonder what the discussion will look like in Thailand–10 years from now…
The tawdry cloak of sufficiency
These articles are in fact terribly disappointing: sloppily composed, devoid of quantitative data, and overhyped. Not even close to the standard set by Phaisan Sicharatchanya in his classic piece on the same topic for the FEER some two decades ago. The role of CPB greed in destroying parts of Bangkok is a serious matter; it requires far more serious treatment than these articles offer. The influence of this “Michael Selby” character, mentioned just once in the articles, requires real investigation. So does the conduct of Chirayu around the time of the 1997 crisis. And what of the CPB’s rural landholdings, on which Phaisan shed valuable light? Did the Asia Sentinel’s correspondent pay a visit to the Commerce Ministry, whose registration files would show far, far more about the CPB’s activities than the fairly obvious ramblings offered here? Too, there is the immense irony of the CPB’s plan to level the Silom Club. For, in the rear of the club’s main room, hanging just over the entrance to the “members only” locker room, is a portraint of the club’s founder. None other than Chao Phraya Sithammathibet, whose role in making the monarchy and the king what they are today Paul Handley has explained. That “the king’s conglomerate” may now level the club speaks, I think, for itself.
The tawdry cloak of sufficiency
No name shown for the author – I wonder who the correspondent was?
I would like to see more transparency, so the line between what is royal family personal wealth and what is national/state wealth is more clear cut.
Without such transparency, opponents of the palace get a free kick just by mentioning CPB.
Agen Domino Online yg tidak sedikit Dicari Member
Now that Thaksin is toppled, we now could “fight for a thorough-going reform and development policy for the countryside that will raise the current miserable living standards” – and please don’t tell me that this is what sufficiency economy is all about.
Sufficiency casualty
Thanks Srithanonchai for the recommendation, I just read the first pages on Amazon and it seems interesting reading “Reporter operate as channels for the pronouncements of ‘big shots’, both senior bureaucrats and party politicians” – that is exactly also my impression of the Thai press.
Amateur, I forgot to add that the 1997 coup in Turkey was not widely accepted at that time (1997 the western world was not so busy fighting muslim fundamentalism) – but if you want to prove your point just mention Pakistan.
Sufficiency casualty
No Amateur, I haven’t forgotten Sondhi – and while I agree that it was more a personal matter, I don’t regard his conspiration theories (like Finland-plan and “Thaksin wants to sell Phuket to Singapore etc) as serious and investigative journalism.
Puppet on a string
Back to the early 1980s of Prem — or perhaps Thanom-Praphas?
Bangkok Post
Friday March 02, 2007
CNS moves to tighten army’s grip
Officers to be deputy governors for security
The Council for National Security yesterday unveiled plans to appoint military officers as deputy governors for security affairs in all 76 provincial administrations across the country, an army source said. The CNS was also working to double the tenure of village heads from five to 10 years, the source added.
Sufficiency casualty
Srithanonchai, thanks for reminding… The western world accepts the Turkish military as it is regarded as a force to keep islamistic forces checked. This reflects the double morale of the west (see Iran as a comparison).
To clearify, I do not sympathise with the Thai military in any way and I wish the new election to come as soon as possible. Unfortunately, I am not that deep into Thai politics to comment on every personality like Pridiyathorn.
21Jan – you may have already forgotten Sondhi, the media moghul. Without him and his investigation there wouldn’t have been such a movement against Thaksin. However, I never get lost of the impression that it is a personal thing that drives him against the ex-premier. And now he is silent. Very suspicious.
Well, I haven’t eaten wisdom with spoons so I prefer to sit back and observe…
Agen Domino Online yg tidak sedikit Dicari Member
The last two sentences sound a little bit as if, at that time, Kasian would opt for eliminating the party-list system, in order to reduce the perceived “presidential” element of Thaksin’s use of power. I am not sure, but presently, he seem to tend to see this as a reduction of popular sovereignty and a “relocalization of national politics” (Matichon, March 2, 2007, p. 6, on р╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕нр╕Ър╣Ар╕ер╕╖р╕нр╕Бр╕Хр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕Шр╕┤р╕Ыр╣Др╕Хр╕вр╕Бр╕│р╕ер╕▒р╕Зр╕Ир╕░р╕Бр╕ер╕▒р╕Ър╕бр╕▓).
Puppet on a string
One might add a perspective by pointing to the issue of inclusion, ie. the expansion of suffrage. Western European social or welfare states (i.e., more public goods) are based on this expansion. In other words, those selected were forced by the electoral structures (institutional incentives) to be more responsive, which translates into more policies. This has not been without problems, as many Western European states’ problems with their budgets demonstrate…
Sufficiency casualty
There are also other problems with the Thai press that makes it unable to fulfill “its role”. One you can see on the picture: Those are mostly young people–at government house! This tells us something about how “news” are acquired, and how news are looked at in Thai newspapers. Besides, ever come across the Thai-style front-page article that consists of statements by more or less well-known academics giving their opinions in a “serious” western-style political newspaper?
For some further insights, and a strong western-normative attack on the lack of professionalism of Thai newspapers, see Duncan McCargo. 2000. Politics and the Press in Thailand: Media Machinations. London and New York: Routledge. (Rethinking Southeast Asia) vii+205 pp. (Pa-perback edition of the same title Bangkok: Garuda Press, 2002. x+300 pp.)
Somkid, sandwiches and sufficiency
Yes Jon, it is a good thing for the villagers that they can make a living with the sandwiches and that they don’t have to leave their village for work, but we have to use the right terminology: this has absolutely nothing to do with sufficiency economy (not in the kings sense, not in the juntas sense, not in anyones sense) and the fact that everything good for the rural population is attributed to the sufficiency economy is pure propaganda.
Regarding your reference to Marx I dream of the day when all people (or at least a great percentage) of Northeastern descent in Bangkok, Phuket and Pattaya and elsewhere in the industrial and touristic centers go on strike for one day – that would be really a wakeup-call for the elitist Bangkokians who think that they run the country.
Sufficiency casualty
And this “Thai cooperative style” is the main reason that the press is Thailand doesn’t contributes to the checks and balances of the society (as it does in the Western world). A bit more “grilling” would have been better – in this case, but also before the coup concerning the previous government. It seems to me that the press is usually waiting for statements from government-agencies – investigative journalism seems to be largely unknown in Thailand (if Nixon would have been Thai-PM, he still would be in power)
Agen Domino Online yg tidak sedikit Dicari Member
I had not read Kasian’s article before – it makes excellent reading in light of recent events.
I particularly liked his comparison of Thaksin & Sondhi.
The junta needs to read Kasian’s last paragraph so it can re-focus it’s activities:
“How best should this regime be targeted? One priority must be the fight for a thorough-going reform and development policy for the countryside that will raise the current miserable living standards without creating widespread indebtedness, and will guarantee a real improvement in rural healthcare. But the immediate task should be to remove the linchpin of the corrupt and criminalized system, who should face the due process of law for the crimes alleged against him–the scores of extra-judicial killings that have been sanctioned in the cities and the South, and the Shin Corporation’s tax-free privatization of national assets. The malfunctioning constitutional bodies, set up as checks and balances, need to be thoroughly investigated and, if necessary, purged of crony members, as a prerequisite to the establishment of the rule of law–as urgent in the South as elsewhere. Finally, the ambiguities of the 1997 Constitution need to be revisited, and its concentration of executive powers in the hands of a presidential prime minister revised. These would be the minimum legal-political requirements for transcending Thaksin’s globalized electocracy.”
Puppet on a string
Royalist-technocrats, Electocrats….
“Selectorate” describes it better:
“Different incentives faced by democracies, autocracies, juntas, oligarchies, etc. Selectorate refers to **those who choose the leader**. Winning coalition’s absolute size and size relative to the selectorate both matter for type of benefits distributed. Large absolute size contributes to more public goods, hence more for general population. Large relative size of winning coalition (relative to size of selectorate) contributes to less **distribution of grafts and booty**.”
From podcast
Bruce Bueno de Mesquita on Democracies and Dictatorships
http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2007/02/bruce_bueno_de.html
Sufficiency casualty
Anonymous: How about if the junta slung a few billion baht business deals the way of their family & friends – would that make you happier?
(all tax free, of course – and if required, they should change the laws to allow the deals to happen)
Or perhaps you would prefer some extra-judicial killings?