As I have said earlier that as long as their major interests are served most people tend to ignore small little things that they don’t like. People puke limits or thresholds may vary for different things depending on the person, their present and past experience. For example for people who have seen their love ones were destroyed by drugs may not see the war on drugs campaign of Thaksin’s government as disgusting or something to be puked as others who do not have such experience. Some may even see it as an appetizer. I do not think the puke thresholds can be universally applied. People who are benefit from TRT party policies may have very low puke thresholds for global abusive behaviour, inefficient, incompetent of the people with guns and tanks that people did not choose to do the job for them in the first place. People puked already when they saw tanks running around Bangkok streets. It was just disgusting and a lot more disgusting for most people when they knew more about coup.
Handley requested a personal royal interview, but was denied.
I wish that people who criticize the book actually read it. It’s a very factually correct biography, and the analysis is very interesting. I don’t agree with all the points, but if you’re interested in Thai politics and the King’s role, it’s a must read.
Let me clarify: Noranit was studying at Columbia in the late 60’s or early 70’s. He was a roon phee to some Thai graduate students there, so I presumed that he was doing a PhD. I might have been wrong about him completing a PhD.
My opinion of him is that he’s the Pointy Haird Boss-types who was promoted to administrative positions because he lacked the willingness or capability to do research or teaching.
Pundit said: ‘If Thaksin had reached my “puke limit”, should I would have said so’
Are you trying to say that you did not reach your “puke limit” with Thaksin?
If so, then I think you have highlighted a major problem with democracy in that it lowers the bar as to what is expected from leaders and government.
I find it sad that so many voters have such high puke thresholds, and have also noticed that the ‘puke threshold’ is much lower for non elected leaders/governments.
If the ‘puke threshold’ was lower for elected governments, then perhaps we would get better quality leaders.
It’s rather ironic that people choose to vote in tyrants, and complain when junta installed leaders are too soft because they try to work within the law.
Anon: It was in reference to 2006, but if I am understanding your point correctly it could apply to anything. Some supporters of the coup had hoped that there would be a strict adherence to the rule of law by the new government, but the result of this strict adherence has been growing impatience by the populace. Ammar’s quote was simply highlighting this out
Then again a strict adherence to the rule of law does not always bring about results that people see as being just or moral. Just for you Kuhn Vichai, what if the CNS asked the NLA to implement a new law that said, “Any person who has been a registered member of TRT and the Democratic Party must be executed immediately”. The rule of law won’t help you overturn such a law.
Vichai: You do REALLY believe that Bangkok Pundit that politicians only have to be popular and be voted in and everything else be damned. I am NOT interested in Ammar’s opinion but yours Pundit.
I suggest you read my comment again instead of wildly implying I believe something I don’t. If Thaksin had reached my “puke limit”, should I would have said so.
What about criminal abuses and violation of the constitution Pundit?
Yawn, another Vichai rant about Thaksin. As I have said on numerous occasions, I have no problems with people being prosecuted if they breach the law. I am not going to bother to repeat myself again to you.
Surely Pundit you would accept that Thaksin’s abuses and scandals in USA or UK would have caused a Thaksin impeachment and jail term to follow after that.
But which Thai PM has not been affected by corruption scandals (scandal as opposed to a breach of law by the PM)? Corruption scandals have plagued every government. Should we impeach them all? Now, you seem to suggest that Thaksin breached a certain threshold of illegality and this makes him bad and he should be punished whereas others shouldn’t be punished. If you think this you are entitled to your opinion.
On the issue of abuses, even the mighty Prem or Surayud could be facing some problems if they were in some western countries. They are not though and neither is Thaksin.
2nd Anon: Some people might not get your sarcasm 🙂
Did the Author who wrote The King Never Smile?
Had met the King? Did he make personel interview with King?
If, Not why? and How can this book named a King Biography??
All contents might be a full true facts!
This is not Fair to the King!!
Do you agree??
====================
Every Year Dec 5, the King Birthday, he got the chance to
speak to public only once a year.
Why the Book Author go to meet the King and have
personel interview with him.
This is Fair to him!!
=========================
р╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕Щр╕╡р╣Й р╕ар╕▓р╕вр╣Гр╕Щр╕бр╕╡р╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕Чр╕▓р╕Щр╣Бр╕Бр╣Ир╣Ар╕лр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕Юр╕Щр╕▒р╕Бр╕Зр╕▓р╕Щр╕лр╕Щр╕▒р╕Зр╕кр╕╖р╕нр╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣Мр╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Ир╕▒р╕Фр╕Бр╕▓р╕г р╕Хр╣Ир╕нр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Хр╕гр╕▓р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕Щр╕▓р╕бр╕▓р╕ар╕┤р╣Др╕Шр╕вр╕вр╣Ир╕н р╕б.р╕з.р╕Б.р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕нр╕вр╕╣р╣Ир╕Хр╕гр╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╕▓р╕Зр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕кр╣Ир╕зр╕Щр╣Бр╕гр╕Б р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕ар╕▓р╕йр╕▓р╕нр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕др╕йр╕зр╣Ир╕▓” SEASON’S GREETINGS AND BEST WISHES A VERY HAPPY NEW YEAR” р╕Юр╕гр╣Йр╕нр╕бр╕ер╕Зр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕Щр╕▓р╕бр╕▓р╕ар╕┤р╣Др╕Шр╕в р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕ер╕Зр╕Чр╣Йр╕▓р╕вр╕зр╣Ир╕▓ FROM THEIR HIGHNESSES THE CROWN PRINCE AND PRINCESS OF THAILAND
Noranit does not have a PhD from Columbia University, nor from any other university. He is authoritarian, insists on his seniority, dislikes foreigners, and has neither a preference for democratic behavior nor for good governance. As Chermsak Pinthong said in today’s Bangkok Post: Noranit is “not outstanding.” As “anonymous” indicated, Noranit is not a scholar, but rather a politically inclined administrator. However, his surname is well-known, and he was recently, at the age of 65, appointed to the Royal Institute. One should note that Noranit was elected chairperson of the CDA only. Who will chair the 35-member constitution drafting committee is still open. Yet, a few cronies of Noranit will sure make it to that outfit.
“While KPI has an extensive program in consolidating Thailand’s democracy … ”
I thought KPI (and those joint IPPS-KPI folks like Chia-anan) was dedicate to furthering only the royalist view of democracy, and that while public participation draws their interest, building rule of law and equality under it has not been equally highlighted.
I never did get to know Sarit Anon, much too young then. If you say Sarit was successful in eliminating corruption and the Kingdom was then run by good people, I may to try to take your word for it except your name Anonymous lacks credibility at all.
But we did have a good 1997 constitution Anon did we not? Too bad that Thaksin had to tear it to shreds with his subvertion and total disrespect thereof.
Maybe interim PM Surayud would succeed to oversee the write-up of a much better constitution this time – – that would prevent uncchecked Thaksin-like abuses in the future. The Thai people’s hopes ride with PM Surayud and his team.
But some malicious elements appear bent on disrupting PM Surayud’s goverment and the constitutional reform process. Anon you and I must resist these malicious elements if we cherish the rebirth of democracy in Thailand.
Vichai – Your opinion just state the exact state of problem. Everybody have their puke limit, me, you, Bkkpundit, bankok middle-class, rural people, etc. By stating that politician who are accuse of tax evasion, corruption, killing spree, etc. should not govern the country, you do realize that you are ENFORCING YOUR PUKE LIMIT on other?
It all come down to simple truth of life, (assumption) rural people does not CARE about all those stuff. Their vote in the past goes to whoever pay them the most or hold most influence in the area. After Thaksin populist’s policy, they shift their vote criteria to whoever promise them improvement in life and deliver, just as your vote goes to who ever promise prosecution of ex-PM and ethical politician. Now, this scare the old-school politician, cause they no longer can sit on their hand and just wait to pay-off the next election. Of course, the people suspect or know of all the vices, but it just does not fall into THEIR daily importance.
So it all come down to this:
“Do you want to give voting power to rural people?”
If so, “Do you(middle-class) willing to accept their chosen representative?”.
He did his PhD in political science at Columbia University during the 1960’s, at a time of major student unrest. I believe (although I’m not 100% certain) that he was at Columbia when radical students took over the place.
However, like many Thai academics of that era (e.g., Juree Vichit-Vadakan, who did her BA, MA, and PhD at UC Berkeley during the 1960’s but is today an advisor to the junta), he didn’t let the progressivism of his American classmates affect his personal political views.
His reputation at Thammasat was as a politically well-linked politico/administrator, not as an academic per se. He made himself useful to the powers that be, no matter who they were.
He never made a name for himself for his academic work or research – after 40 years, he is still just an associate professor, having never made it to full professorship. I don’t think he’s ever had an article published in a refereed academic journal – at least not recently.
Compare this against the architects of the 1997 constitution: Chai-anand Samudavajiva, Amorn Chantarasomboon, Bowornsak Uwanno, and the rest of the Institute for Public Policy Studies (IPPS) bunch. Their views on public participation and constitutionalism were very well known through extensive academic work and advocacy, and it was no surprise to anyone how the 1997 constitution turned out.
I suspect Noranit will write whatever his masters tell him to write.
Taxi Driver: I am prepared to concede that as far as political systems go, democracy is as good as it gets IF there are the appropriate checks and balances, and the majority of voters are educated and ethical.
In the absence of all of those factors, then I do not consider democracy any better than some alternative political systems.
Vichai, God forbid the 2008 constitution look exactly like the 1997 constitution!
The CDA should look at the most righteous constitution in Thai history: Sarit Thanarat’s 1959 charter.
That charter prevented any corrupt politicians from entering parliament, because it simply banned elections. All that was needed to appoint a Premier was the wise decision of His Majesty. The King’s choice was correct, of course. Sarit was a good man who never abused his power or got involved in scandals, or at least, the newspapers and media of the day never reported any scandals…
The kingdom was run by a Council of good people who everybody looked up to. And none of this disgusting populism – the rural poor knew their place then.
Ngarnadeeleg the enlighened absolutism (or perhaps more accurately “Buddhist Despotism”) you espouse requires an important ingredient: “good” people to lead the country.
So who gets to decide on who is “good” to lead the country? (And who decides on who the deciders should be?).
Presumably the uneducated/uninformed who are easily fooled by demagogues are to be excluded. So who decides on who are uneducated/uninformed? Should everybody sit a test?
If you recommend the King as the “Decider”, then I ask you this question: who gets to choose the next King? The present King? What if his decision turns out to be incorrect (say the next decider turns out to be incompetent or just bad)? How do you remove the next “Decider” from office, and who do you replace him/her with? The chairman of the Privy Council? Who chose him/her to be chairman of the PC?
So you see, the question becomes: where does ultimate power lie? Who ultimately has the right to decide? In a democracy, its with the people (uneducated or not).
Surayud & Sonthi et al should have formed a “Good Persons Party” (“Pruk Khon Dee”) and contest the October elections, and let the people decide.
You do REALLY believe that Bangkok Pundit that politicians only have to be popular and be voted in and everything else be damned. I am NOT interested in Ammar’s opinion but yours Pundit.
Is that what your blogging website Pundit is all about? Accept the politicians – – their runaway tax evasions, corruption and murders even – if they have been voted in and NOT yet voted out. What about criminal abuses and violation of the constitution Pundit?
I am glad you are NOT in the constitutional drafting assembly Pundit. I wouud shudder to imagine how your constitution for Thailand will read like.
Surely Pundit you would accept that Thaksin’s abuses and scandals in USA or UK would have caused a Thaksin impeachment and jail term to follow after that.
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“The educated middle class vs democracy”
nganadeeleg,
As I have said earlier that as long as their major interests are served most people tend to ignore small little things that they don’t like. People puke limits or thresholds may vary for different things depending on the person, their present and past experience. For example for people who have seen their love ones were destroyed by drugs may not see the war on drugs campaign of Thaksin’s government as disgusting or something to be puked as others who do not have such experience. Some may even see it as an appetizer. I do not think the puke thresholds can be universally applied. People who are benefit from TRT party policies may have very low puke thresholds for global abusive behaviour, inefficient, incompetent of the people with guns and tanks that people did not choose to do the job for them in the first place. People puked already when they saw tanks running around Bangkok streets. It was just disgusting and a lot more disgusting for most people when they knew more about coup.
Australia’s link to the CDA
his history for the confused… http://www.tu.ac.th/overview/admin/exec/22.noranit/Prof.Noranit%20Setabutr.htm
The King Never Smiles?
Handley requested a personal royal interview, but was denied.
I wish that people who criticize the book actually read it. It’s a very factually correct biography, and the analysis is very interesting. I don’t agree with all the points, but if you’re interested in Thai politics and the King’s role, it’s a must read.
Australia’s link to the CDA
Let me clarify: Noranit was studying at Columbia in the late 60’s or early 70’s. He was a roon phee to some Thai graduate students there, so I presumed that he was doing a PhD. I might have been wrong about him completing a PhD.
My opinion of him is that he’s the Pointy Haird Boss-types who was promoted to administrative positions because he lacked the willingness or capability to do research or teaching.
“The educated middle class vs democracy”
Pundit said: ‘If Thaksin had reached my “puke limit”, should I would have said so’
Are you trying to say that you did not reach your “puke limit” with Thaksin?
If so, then I think you have highlighted a major problem with democracy in that it lowers the bar as to what is expected from leaders and government.
I find it sad that so many voters have such high puke thresholds, and have also noticed that the ‘puke threshold’ is much lower for non elected leaders/governments.
If the ‘puke threshold’ was lower for elected governments, then perhaps we would get better quality leaders.
It’s rather ironic that people choose to vote in tyrants, and complain when junta installed leaders are too soft because they try to work within the law.
“The educated middle class vs democracy”
Anon: It was in reference to 2006, but if I am understanding your point correctly it could apply to anything. Some supporters of the coup had hoped that there would be a strict adherence to the rule of law by the new government, but the result of this strict adherence has been growing impatience by the populace. Ammar’s quote was simply highlighting this out
Then again a strict adherence to the rule of law does not always bring about results that people see as being just or moral. Just for you Kuhn Vichai, what if the CNS asked the NLA to implement a new law that said, “Any person who has been a registered member of TRT and the Democratic Party must be executed immediately”. The rule of law won’t help you overturn such a law.
Vichai:
You do REALLY believe that Bangkok Pundit that politicians only have to be popular and be voted in and everything else be damned. I am NOT interested in Ammar’s opinion but yours Pundit.
I suggest you read my comment again instead of wildly implying I believe something I don’t. If Thaksin had reached my “puke limit”, should I would have said so.
What about criminal abuses and violation of the constitution Pundit?
Yawn, another Vichai rant about Thaksin. As I have said on numerous occasions, I have no problems with people being prosecuted if they breach the law. I am not going to bother to repeat myself again to you.
Surely Pundit you would accept that Thaksin’s abuses and scandals in USA or UK would have caused a Thaksin impeachment and jail term to follow after that.
But which Thai PM has not been affected by corruption scandals (scandal as opposed to a breach of law by the PM)? Corruption scandals have plagued every government. Should we impeach them all? Now, you seem to suggest that Thaksin breached a certain threshold of illegality and this makes him bad and he should be punished whereas others shouldn’t be punished. If you think this you are entitled to your opinion.
On the issue of abuses, even the mighty Prem or Surayud could be facing some problems if they were in some western countries. They are not though and neither is Thaksin.
2nd Anon: Some people might not get your sarcasm 🙂
The King Never Smiles?
Did the Author who wrote The King Never Smile?
Had met the King? Did he make personel interview with King?
If, Not why? and How can this book named a King Biography??
All contents might be a full true facts!
This is not Fair to the King!!
Do you agree??
====================
Every Year Dec 5, the King Birthday, he got the chance to
speak to public only once a year.
Why the Book Author go to meet the King and have
personel interview with him.
This is Fair to him!!
=========================
“The educated middle class vs democracy”
More pics from Sondhi Lim’s Party with CNS available at http://www.manager.co.th/Home/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9500000002187 and http://www.manager.co.th/MetroLife/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9500000002096
“The educated middle class vs democracy”
Sondhi Limthongkul and Manager Staff Receive New Years’ Greetings from the Crown Prince and Family
р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕гр╕б р╕Чр╕гр╕Зр╣Вр╕Ыр╕гр╕Ф р╕Щр╕кр╕Ю.р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Ир╕▒р╕Фр╕Бр╕▓р╕г р╕Чр╕│р╕бр╕▒р╕вр╕Юр╕зр╕Бр╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕Фр╣Ир╕▓р╕лр╕▓!
р╣Бр╕лр╕ер╣Ир╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕бр╕▓ http://www.manager.co.th/Home/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9500000002089
р╕кр╕бр╣Ар╕Фр╣Зр╕Ир╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕гр╕бр╕п р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕Чр╕▓р╕Щ р╕к.р╕Д.р╕к.р╣Бр╕Бр╣Ир╕лр╕Щр╕▒р╕Зр╕кр╕╖р╕нр╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣Мр╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Ир╕▒р╕Фр╕Бр╕▓р╕г
р╣Вр╕Фр╕в р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Ир╕▒р╕Фр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕нр╕нр╕Щр╣Др╕ер╕Щр╣М 8 р╕бр╕Бр╕гр╕▓р╕Др╕б 2550 17:27 р╕Щ.
р╕кр╕бр╣Ар╕Фр╣Зр╕Ир╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕гр╕бр╣Вр╕нр╕гр╕кр╕▓р╕Шр╕┤р╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕п р╕кр╕вр╕▓р╕бр╕Бр╕╕р╕Ор╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕Бр╕╕р╕бр╕▓р╕г р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕Чр╕▓р╕Щ р╕к.р╕Д.р╕к.р╕Ыр╕╡ 2550 р╣Бр╕Бр╣Ир╕Др╕Ур╕░р╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕лр╕Щр╣Йр╕▓р╕Чр╕╡р╣И р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Юр╕Щр╕▒р╕Бр╕Зр╕▓р╕Щр╕лр╕Щр╕▒р╕Зр╕кр╕╖р╕нр╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣Мр╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Ир╕▒р╕Фр╕Бр╕▓р╕г р╣Вр╕Фр╕вр╕ар╕▓р╕вр╣Гр╕Щр╕бр╕╡р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕Йр╕▓р╕вр╕▓р╕ер╕▒р╕Бр╕йр╕Ур╣Мр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕гр╕бр╣Вр╕нр╕гр╕кр╕▓р╕Шр╕┤р╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕п р╕Чр╕гр╕Зр╕Йр╕▓р╕вр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ъ р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕зр╕гр╕зр╕Зр╕ир╣Мр╣Ар╕Шр╕н р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕нр╕Зр╕Др╣Мр╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕ир╕гр╕╡р╕гр╕▒р╕ир╕бр╕┤р╣М р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕зр╕гр╕Кр╕▓р╕вр╕▓р╕п р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕Йр╕▓р╕вр╕▓р╕ер╕▒р╕Бр╕йр╕Ур╣Мр╕Чр╕гр╕Зр╕Йр╕▓р╕вр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ъ р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕лр╕ер╕▓р╕Щр╣Ар╕Шр╕н р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕нр╕Зр╕Др╣Мр╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕Юр╕▒р╕Кр╕гр╕Бр╕┤р╕Хр╕┤р╕вр╕▓р╕ар╕▓ р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕лр╕ер╕▓р╕Щр╣Ар╕Шр╕н р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕нр╕Зр╕Др╣Мр╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕кр╕┤р╕гр╕┤р╕зр╕▒р╕Ур╕Ур╕зр╕гр╕╡р╕Щр╕▓р╕гр╕╡р╕гр╕▒р╕Хр╕Щр╣М р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕лр╕ер╕▓р╕Щр╣Ар╕Шр╕н р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕нр╕Зр╕Др╣Мр╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕Чр╕╡р╕Ыр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕г р╕гр╕▒р╕ир╕бр╕╡р╣Вр╕Кр╕Хр╕┤
р╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕Щр╕╡р╣Й р╕ар╕▓р╕вр╣Гр╕Щр╕бр╕╡р╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕Чр╕▓р╕Щр╣Бр╕Бр╣Ир╣Ар╕лр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕Юр╕Щр╕▒р╕Бр╕Зр╕▓р╕Щр╕лр╕Щр╕▒р╕Зр╕кр╕╖р╕нр╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣Мр╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Ир╕▒р╕Фр╕Бр╕▓р╕г р╕Хр╣Ир╕нр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Хр╕гр╕▓р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕Щр╕▓р╕бр╕▓р╕ар╕┤р╣Др╕Шр╕вр╕вр╣Ир╕н р╕б.р╕з.р╕Б.р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕нр╕вр╕╣р╣Ир╕Хр╕гр╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╕▓р╕Зр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕кр╣Ир╕зр╕Щр╣Бр╕гр╕Б р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕ар╕▓р╕йр╕▓р╕нр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕др╕йр╕зр╣Ир╕▓” SEASON’S GREETINGS AND BEST WISHES A VERY HAPPY NEW YEAR” р╕Юр╕гр╣Йр╕нр╕бр╕ер╕Зр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕Щр╕▓р╕бр╕▓р╕ар╕┤р╣Др╕Шр╕в р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕ер╕Зр╕Чр╣Йр╕▓р╕вр╕зр╣Ир╕▓ FROM THEIR HIGHNESSES THE CROWN PRINCE AND PRINCESS OF THAILAND
“The educated middle class vs democracy”
Sondhi Limthongkul and PAD Party with the CNS
р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Ир╕▒р╕Фр╕Бр╕▓р╕г 8 р╕бр╕Д. 50 Posted : 2007-01-08 20:18:50
р╕зр╕▓р╕Щр╕Щр╕╡р╣Й( 7 р╕б.р╕Д.) р╕Юр╕ер╕Юр╕гр╕гр╕Др╕Юр╕▒р╕Щр╕Шр╕бр╕┤р╕Хр╕гр╕Бр╕╣р╣Йр╕Кр╕▓р╕Хр╕┤р╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕бр╕╡р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Щр╕▒р╕Фр╕гр╕зр╕бр╕Юр╕ер╕Др╕Щр╣Ар╕кр╕╖р╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕лр╕ер╕╖р╕нр╕Зр╕Ир╕▒р╕Фр╕Зр╕▓р╕Щр╣Ар╕ер╕╡р╣Йр╕вр╕Зр╕Юр╕Ър╕Ыр╕░р╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕кр╕гр╕гр╕Др╣Мр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щ р╣Вр╕Фр╕вр╕бр╕╡р╣Бр╕Бр╕Щр╕Щр╕│р╕Юр╕▒р╕Щр╕Шр╕бр╕┤р╕Хр╕гр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Кр╕Щр╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Шр╕┤р╕Ыр╣Др╕Хр╕вр╕бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ир╕зр╕бр╕Зр╕▓р╕Щр╕нр╕▓р╕Чр╕┤ р╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕кр╕Щр╕Шр╕┤ р╕ер╕┤р╣Йр╕бр╕Чр╕нр╕Зр╕Бр╕╕р╕е р╕Юр╕е.р╕Х. р╕Ир╕│р╕ер╕нр╕З р╕ир╕гр╕╡р╣Ар╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕З р╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕кр╕бр╕ир╕▒р╕Бр╕Фр╕┤р╣М р╣Вр╕Бр╕ир╕▒р╕вр╕кр╕╕р╕В р╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕кр╕╕р╕гр╕┤р╕вр╕░р╣Гр╕к р╕Бр╕Хр╕░р╕ир╕┤р╕ер╕▓ р╕Юр╕гр╣Йр╕нр╕бр╕Фр╣Йр╕зр╕в р╕Юр╕е.р╕н.р╕кр╕Юр╕гр╕▒р╣Ир╕З р╕Бр╕▒р╕ер╕вр╕▓р╕Ур╕бр╕┤р╕Хр╕г р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Кр╣Ир╕зр╕вр╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Нр╕Кр╕▓р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Чр╕лр╕▓р╕гр╕Ър╕Б р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Кр╣Ир╕зр╕вр╣Ар╕ер╕Вр╕▓р╕Шр╕┤р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Др╕Ур╕░р╕бр╕Щр╕Хр╕гр╕╡р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕бр╕▒р╣Ир╕Щр╕Др╕Зр╣Бр╕лр╣Ир╕Зр╕Кр╕▓р╕Хр╕┤ (р╕Др╕бр╕К.) р╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╣Бр╕Вр╕Бр╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕бр╕╡р╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╕вр╕гр╕Хр╕┤р╕бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ир╕зр╕бр╕Зр╕▓р╕Щр╕бр╕▓р╕Бр╕бр╕▓р╕в р╕Лр╕╢р╣Ир╕Зр╕Зр╕▓р╕Щр╕Щр╕╡р╣Йр╕Ир╕▒р╕Фр╕Вр╕╢р╣Йр╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ър╣Йр╕▓р╕Щр╕Юр╕▒р╕Бр╣Гр╕Щр╕Лр╕нр╕вр╕кр╕╕р╕Вр╕╕р╕бр╕зр╕┤р╕Ч р╕Вр╕нр╕З р╕б.р╕г.р╕з р╕гр╕│р╕Юр╕┤р╕нр╕▓р╕ар╕▓ р╣Ар╕Бр╕йр╕бр╕ир╕гр╕╡ р╕кр╣Ир╕зр╕Щр╕Ър╕гр╕гр╕вр╕▓р╕Бр╕▓р╕ир╕ар╕▓р╕вр╣Гр╕Щр╕Зр╕▓р╕Щр╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щр╣Ар╕Хр╣Зр╕бр╣Др╕Ыр╕Фр╣Йр╕зр╕вр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕нр╕Ър╕нр╕╕р╣Ир╕Щ р╕Чр╣Ир╕▓р╕бр╕Бр╕ер╕▓р╕Зр╕Зр╕▓р╕Щр╣Ар╕ер╕╡р╣Йр╕вр╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕гр╕╡р╕вр╕Ър╕Зр╣Ир╕▓р╕в р╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╣Ар╕Вр╣Йр╕бр╕Вр╣Йр╕Щр╣Ар╕бр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Ър╕Щр╣Ар╕зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕бр╕╡р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕Ыр╕┤р╕Фр╣Вр╕нр╕Бр╕▓р╕кр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╣Бр╕кр╕Фр╕Зр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╣Ар╕лр╣Зр╕Щр╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ур╣Мр╕Ър╣Йр╕▓р╕Щр╣Ар╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕Зр╣Гр╕Щр╕Ыр╕▒р╕Ир╕Ир╕╕р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щ
For pics see http://www.sameskybooks.org/webboard/show.php?Category=sameskybooks&No=715
Australia’s link to the CDA
Noranit does not have a PhD from Columbia University, nor from any other university. He is authoritarian, insists on his seniority, dislikes foreigners, and has neither a preference for democratic behavior nor for good governance. As Chermsak Pinthong said in today’s Bangkok Post: Noranit is “not outstanding.” As “anonymous” indicated, Noranit is not a scholar, but rather a politically inclined administrator. However, his surname is well-known, and he was recently, at the age of 65, appointed to the Royal Institute. One should note that Noranit was elected chairperson of the CDA only. Who will chair the 35-member constitution drafting committee is still open. Yet, a few cronies of Noranit will sure make it to that outfit.
Australia’s link to the CDA
“While KPI has an extensive program in consolidating Thailand’s democracy … ”
I thought KPI (and those joint IPPS-KPI folks like Chia-anan) was dedicate to furthering only the royalist view of democracy, and that while public participation draws their interest, building rule of law and equality under it has not been equally highlighted.
“The educated middle class vs democracy”
I never did get to know Sarit Anon, much too young then. If you say Sarit was successful in eliminating corruption and the Kingdom was then run by good people, I may to try to take your word for it except your name Anonymous lacks credibility at all.
But we did have a good 1997 constitution Anon did we not? Too bad that Thaksin had to tear it to shreds with his subvertion and total disrespect thereof.
Maybe interim PM Surayud would succeed to oversee the write-up of a much better constitution this time – – that would prevent uncchecked Thaksin-like abuses in the future. The Thai people’s hopes ride with PM Surayud and his team.
But some malicious elements appear bent on disrupting PM Surayud’s goverment and the constitutional reform process. Anon you and I must resist these malicious elements if we cherish the rebirth of democracy in Thailand.
“The educated middle class vs democracy”
Vichai – Your opinion just state the exact state of problem. Everybody have their puke limit, me, you, Bkkpundit, bankok middle-class, rural people, etc. By stating that politician who are accuse of tax evasion, corruption, killing spree, etc. should not govern the country, you do realize that you are ENFORCING YOUR PUKE LIMIT on other?
It all come down to simple truth of life, (assumption) rural people does not CARE about all those stuff. Their vote in the past goes to whoever pay them the most or hold most influence in the area. After Thaksin populist’s policy, they shift their vote criteria to whoever promise them improvement in life and deliver, just as your vote goes to who ever promise prosecution of ex-PM and ethical politician. Now, this scare the old-school politician, cause they no longer can sit on their hand and just wait to pay-off the next election. Of course, the people suspect or know of all the vices, but it just does not fall into THEIR daily importance.
So it all come down to this:
“Do you want to give voting power to rural people?”
If so, “Do you(middle-class) willing to accept their chosen representative?”.
Australia’s link to the CDA
He did his PhD in political science at Columbia University during the 1960’s, at a time of major student unrest. I believe (although I’m not 100% certain) that he was at Columbia when radical students took over the place.
However, like many Thai academics of that era (e.g., Juree Vichit-Vadakan, who did her BA, MA, and PhD at UC Berkeley during the 1960’s but is today an advisor to the junta), he didn’t let the progressivism of his American classmates affect his personal political views.
His reputation at Thammasat was as a politically well-linked politico/administrator, not as an academic per se. He made himself useful to the powers that be, no matter who they were.
He never made a name for himself for his academic work or research – after 40 years, he is still just an associate professor, having never made it to full professorship. I don’t think he’s ever had an article published in a refereed academic journal – at least not recently.
Compare this against the architects of the 1997 constitution: Chai-anand Samudavajiva, Amorn Chantarasomboon, Bowornsak Uwanno, and the rest of the Institute for Public Policy Studies (IPPS) bunch. Their views on public participation and constitutionalism were very well known through extensive academic work and advocacy, and it was no surprise to anyone how the 1997 constitution turned out.
I suspect Noranit will write whatever his masters tell him to write.
Tightening the grip
Taxi Driver: I am prepared to concede that as far as political systems go, democracy is as good as it gets IF there are the appropriate checks and balances, and the majority of voters are educated and ethical.
In the absence of all of those factors, then I do not consider democracy any better than some alternative political systems.
“The educated middle class vs democracy”
Vichai, God forbid the 2008 constitution look exactly like the 1997 constitution!
The CDA should look at the most righteous constitution in Thai history: Sarit Thanarat’s 1959 charter.
That charter prevented any corrupt politicians from entering parliament, because it simply banned elections. All that was needed to appoint a Premier was the wise decision of His Majesty. The King’s choice was correct, of course. Sarit was a good man who never abused his power or got involved in scandals, or at least, the newspapers and media of the day never reported any scandals…
The kingdom was run by a Council of good people who everybody looked up to. And none of this disgusting populism – the rural poor knew their place then.
Tightening the grip
Don’t worry, Taxi Driver – Vichai’s blind faith in the throne will be exposed for the absurdity it really is when the Crown Prince becomes King.
Long live the Chakri Dynasty! 😉
Tightening the grip
Ngarnadeeleg the enlighened absolutism (or perhaps more accurately “Buddhist Despotism”) you espouse requires an important ingredient: “good” people to lead the country.
So who gets to decide on who is “good” to lead the country? (And who decides on who the deciders should be?).
Presumably the uneducated/uninformed who are easily fooled by demagogues are to be excluded. So who decides on who are uneducated/uninformed? Should everybody sit a test?
If you recommend the King as the “Decider”, then I ask you this question: who gets to choose the next King? The present King? What if his decision turns out to be incorrect (say the next decider turns out to be incompetent or just bad)? How do you remove the next “Decider” from office, and who do you replace him/her with? The chairman of the Privy Council? Who chose him/her to be chairman of the PC?
So you see, the question becomes: where does ultimate power lie? Who ultimately has the right to decide? In a democracy, its with the people (uneducated or not).
Surayud & Sonthi et al should have formed a “Good Persons Party” (“Pruk Khon Dee”) and contest the October elections, and let the people decide.
“The educated middle class vs democracy”
You do REALLY believe that Bangkok Pundit that politicians only have to be popular and be voted in and everything else be damned. I am NOT interested in Ammar’s opinion but yours Pundit.
Is that what your blogging website Pundit is all about? Accept the politicians – – their runaway tax evasions, corruption and murders even – if they have been voted in and NOT yet voted out. What about criminal abuses and violation of the constitution Pundit?
I am glad you are NOT in the constitutional drafting assembly Pundit. I wouud shudder to imagine how your constitution for Thailand will read like.
Surely Pundit you would accept that Thaksin’s abuses and scandals in USA or UK would have caused a Thaksin impeachment and jail term to follow after that.