You write patent nonsense. Ethnic Asiatic minorities in Bangladesh, like the Chittagong Hill tribes and other non-Indo-Aryan Muslims are persecuted savagely in Bangladesh. Buddhists do NOT have “full” citizenship rights in Bangladesh, as neither do Hindus, Christians, Ahmadi Muslims, Ismaili Muslims and Shi’ite Muslims, all of whom are attacked and massacred by Islamic fanatics in Bangladesh, especially Hizb-ut-Tahrir and Jaish-e-Islami all originating from Pakistan. Islamic vigilantism is rampant in Bangladesh and BOTH minority Muslim sects and non-Muslims are the targets. This is on record at the UIN and by Human Rights Watch and Sheikh Hasina Wajid has done nothing to improve Bangladesh. Sohol, your comments are ridiculous and have no basis in reality.
I’ve already shown it – it’s very clear, and Todung’s forbidden from practising period, in or out of court.
It’s farcical: he gets a professorship at Melbourne six years after he was permanently struck off. Seems he’s been deemed “Too Big To Fail” only by his foreign backers, but marked F by his own
Two points to add: 1) there are many Buddhists of the ‘Confucian race’ on this side of the now Bangladeshi border. Their situation is very different: they have full citizenship rights in Bangladesh. Even then they fight for an independence Buddhist state, supported by UN and the Western states. They have so far achieved autonomy, which restricts rights of ‘Bengalis’ in these parts of Bangladesh. 2) the rights of Rohingya Muslims citizenship and existence in their land had been signed away by the British before the handing over Burma.
For she has done in-depth and through analysis of the crisis? I do not think
she needs respect from people like you
who with superficial knowledge about it
yet wishing she will have to dance along
the tunes like you are doing? Get real!
As I stated above at post #18.1.1 with direct statute quotation, Indonesian Law makes it simple and direct, confirming further Todung’s status as “disbarred” and forbidden from practising as a lawyer period. If you ignore such Indonesian statute then you may as well ignore Indonesian warnings at their airport terminals too, and perhaps come clean on an intention to not recognize Indonesian soveriegnty and independence for that matter.
Perhaps an equivalent process in Australian Law would be more circuitous e.g., via a Legal Services Commissioner or aggrieved citizen launching action through an administrative tribunal, for example, or maybe also via a Law Institute.
But the Indonesian case appears more straightforward and, from my reading, more transparent for its citizenry. Indeed, many Indonesian universities’ law faculties are firm and openly activist on this issue of PERADI’s exclusive statutory authority and, by direct implication, on Todung’s disbarment. See for example: http://www.hukumonline.com/berita/baca/lt5421308b27224/ini-sikap-enam-fakultas-hukum-terhadap-ruu-advokat
It would probably be too much to expect such equivalent dynamism and conscientiousness in Australia given prevailing conditions in an adversarial system beset by its own long-term malaises of oversupply, public apathy and even hostility towards the legal profession.
There is only one bar association in each Australian State. You don’t have to be a member to practice as a barrister.
can you show that this is different in Indonesia? In other words is it the Law in Indonesia that in order to practice before the courts you must be a member of the Bar Association.
The key word on Papua, before everything else, is dialogue. And Jokowi ignored just that. “dialogue with whom, what for? Let’s not prolong past issue!” he said. So basically he is similar to his predecessors on Papua. Ironically, in this respect, he is just as New Order child as all his predecessors, except perhaps Gus Dur, believing that development will solve everything. He simply ignores the local significance of Pepera (1969 plebiscite) where the problemstarted. Many people forget gen. Ali Moertopo for Papua 1969 was strategically what Ali himself and gen. Benny Moerdani were for East Timor.
It takes no expertise to grasp that Indonesian Law recognizes only one bar association – PERADI – as legitimate, and that PERADI permanently disbarred Todung Mulya Lubis in mid-2008. It’s explicit and clear in: Indonesian statute UU No 18/2003, BAB X Pasal 28 (1), BAB XII Pasal 32 (3) & (4); PERADI’s 2005 inauguration records, and; 2006 and 2010 Consitutional Court declarations further confirming PERADI’s standing.
Following such plain Indonesian sources, there should be some serious questioning of the agenda run by much English-language journalism on the matter, and serious scrutiny of western-based experts who keep promoting permanently disbarred lawyer Todung Mulya Lubis.
Of course, Todung’s been trying to get Indonesian Law changed to get himself out of his legal limbo of permanent disbarment, perhaps proving the inefficacy of the destabilization campaign via his fringe astro-turf “bar associations” etc., such as KAI, KAUD, and his supposedly revived “IKADIN”, existence of which would all contravene the statutory provisions.
As an often lone voice she chose the principle of Primum non mocere for her avocation.
As an example of “Freedom from Fear”she lives her live daily.
Can you suggest any thing she can do for the HR of the mostly Bengali Kalar present plight, a known historical fact that is created by the British that has evolve to present quagmire.
May be you should learn more about Myanmar other quagmires, yet to be addressed.
This “Pretty Boy” Abhisit who had not worked a day in his life except a few months as an instructor at Thamasart University deserves to stay home. This is where he belongs, not in politics!
You’re welcome Aung. I noticed that Malaysia and Indonesia will resettle some “Rohingya: temporarily. It will be interesting to see how that will sit with local non-Muslims, as well as Malays and Indonesian Muslims. The thoroughly corrupt nation of Gambia, run by madman “Dr” Yahyee (who thinks Mangoes treat homosexuality) has agreed to take all 3000 “Rohingya” who have never even heard of Gambia. Gambians themselves are trying to leave this hell hole in droves. The Gambian leader is trying to demonstrate his Islamic Zakat (Charity), but I doubt anyone would want to be under his thumb.
“… only a few technocrats, the very same who drafted the constitution, would be qualified …” Which to me begs the question: but how did they get into these positions in the first place. Like you suggest these new institutions to be hard dismantle and thus likely to “spill over” into a next constitution, they obviously already arr a spillover from the past?! I am surprised the emperor is mentioned nowhere in the above article and it suggests he has a totally figurative role for all the reverence Thais seem to pay him?
I have not been able to insert this as an active URL.
The content suggests how in 1948 the Jamiatul-Ulema North Arakan set the tone for the next 10 years as they worked studiously to fashion ‘Rohingya’ from a range of possible ethnic designations. They no doubt had the best of intentions, but had not perhaps understood how the dragooning of separate Muslim communities in Arakan into a monolithic political entity might upset the Rakhine community, who got along reasonably well with the indigenous Kaman and Yakhain-kala, who spoke Arakanese, but not the more recent Chittagonian settlers who were rather too industrious for their liking.
There seems to be a general misunderstanding and misconception that fuel the present debate.
In Myanmar Kalar is the designation for anyone with Indo-caucasoid feature. As it is Kalar, now is referred to anyone of Indo-parkistani descend.
Kalar, and Tayoke are 2 major none indegenous major ethnic groups within Myanmar.
Kalar is further branded as 2 main group Muslim or HIndu Kalar. With the place of worship, pali(s).
In the eyes of most Myanmar citizenry (the one claimed to be Bamar)the terms used to describe the 2 races Kalar Soak and Pauk paw gyi describe the degree of “acceptance sentiment”sentiment” mainly due to willingness of the Pauk paw to accommodate to the Bamar way of life. Among the Kalar the Muslim are adamantly oppose to any integration while the Hindu Kalar integrate well due to the similar worshipped dieties.
Description above just touch on the ‘tip of the iceberg’ sentiment of Bamar perception of Kalar should make the west realize the present blaming/forcing of Myanmar to accept Kalar in a manner with respect to western concept of HR.
All “Rohingya” are Bangladeshis or, prior to East Pakistan’s reversion to Bangladesh, were simply Bengali Muslims from West Bengal State under British India (which included Burma). There is no mention of “Rohingya” for a reason, Aung. There were, and are, no separate ethnic group(s) known as “Rohingya” except to those individuals, who wish to ideologise a people who are members of a 166 million population, known as Bangladeshis. You are correct, I believe, in using the term “lobbyist”. It is accurate, more so than the putative origins of this much “maligned” group. Sheikh Hasina Wajed will go on, for hours, about the suffering “Rohingya”, but won’t take any of her brethren back. No doubt, historically, Bengali Muslims have suffered at the hands of Punjabis and Sindhis, who tried to snuff out Bengali language and culture, that led to the genocide of 2 million Bengali Muslims, and the ultimate formation of Bangladesh. This is recorded history and cannot be revised, by Pakistan. This is no way is diminished by the re-invention of the “Rohingya”, but the fact remains that the “Rohingya” are Muslims of Bengali origin, indivisible from Bangladeshis.
Chris – has anyone done more than Abhisit to raise the spectre of the break-up of the Thai state? What about you, Chris. Mrs Namman has been counting through the New Mandala archives and so far she has found that you have forecast it 423 times. She is still counting! She is starting to wonder if we should hang onto our lamyai plantation in Nong Khai.
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A missing boat and a missing voice
She needs to dance along with the voters in Myanmar my friend, that is what she needs to do to get votes. Happy?
Rohingya and national identities in Burma
@Sohol
You write patent nonsense. Ethnic Asiatic minorities in Bangladesh, like the Chittagong Hill tribes and other non-Indo-Aryan Muslims are persecuted savagely in Bangladesh. Buddhists do NOT have “full” citizenship rights in Bangladesh, as neither do Hindus, Christians, Ahmadi Muslims, Ismaili Muslims and Shi’ite Muslims, all of whom are attacked and massacred by Islamic fanatics in Bangladesh, especially Hizb-ut-Tahrir and Jaish-e-Islami all originating from Pakistan. Islamic vigilantism is rampant in Bangladesh and BOTH minority Muslim sects and non-Muslims are the targets. This is on record at the UIN and by Human Rights Watch and Sheikh Hasina Wajid has done nothing to improve Bangladesh. Sohol, your comments are ridiculous and have no basis in reality.
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
I’ve already shown it – it’s very clear, and Todung’s forbidden from practising period, in or out of court.
It’s farcical: he gets a professorship at Melbourne six years after he was permanently struck off. Seems he’s been deemed “Too Big To Fail” only by his foreign backers, but marked F by his own
Rohingya and national identities in Burma
I see Racism and Islamophobia rules the day!
Anyway excellent article Mr. Galache!
Two points to add: 1) there are many Buddhists of the ‘Confucian race’ on this side of the now Bangladeshi border. Their situation is very different: they have full citizenship rights in Bangladesh. Even then they fight for an independence Buddhist state, supported by UN and the Western states. They have so far achieved autonomy, which restricts rights of ‘Bengalis’ in these parts of Bangladesh. 2) the rights of Rohingya Muslims citizenship and existence in their land had been signed away by the British before the handing over Burma.
A missing boat and a missing voice
For she has done in-depth and through analysis of the crisis? I do not think
she needs respect from people like you
who with superficial knowledge about it
yet wishing she will have to dance along
the tunes like you are doing? Get real!
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
As I stated above at post #18.1.1 with direct statute quotation, Indonesian Law makes it simple and direct, confirming further Todung’s status as “disbarred” and forbidden from practising as a lawyer period. If you ignore such Indonesian statute then you may as well ignore Indonesian warnings at their airport terminals too, and perhaps come clean on an intention to not recognize Indonesian soveriegnty and independence for that matter.
Perhaps an equivalent process in Australian Law would be more circuitous e.g., via a Legal Services Commissioner or aggrieved citizen launching action through an administrative tribunal, for example, or maybe also via a Law Institute.
But the Indonesian case appears more straightforward and, from my reading, more transparent for its citizenry. Indeed, many Indonesian universities’ law faculties are firm and openly activist on this issue of PERADI’s exclusive statutory authority and, by direct implication, on Todung’s disbarment. See for example: http://www.hukumonline.com/berita/baca/lt5421308b27224/ini-sikap-enam-fakultas-hukum-terhadap-ruu-advokat
It would probably be too much to expect such equivalent dynamism and conscientiousness in Australia given prevailing conditions in an adversarial system beset by its own long-term malaises of oversupply, public apathy and even hostility towards the legal profession.
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
There is only one bar association in each Australian State. You don’t have to be a member to practice as a barrister.
can you show that this is different in Indonesia? In other words is it the Law in Indonesia that in order to practice before the courts you must be a member of the Bar Association.
Flying the flag of reform?
The key word on Papua, before everything else, is dialogue. And Jokowi ignored just that. “dialogue with whom, what for? Let’s not prolong past issue!” he said. So basically he is similar to his predecessors on Papua. Ironically, in this respect, he is just as New Order child as all his predecessors, except perhaps Gus Dur, believing that development will solve everything. He simply ignores the local significance of Pepera (1969 plebiscite) where the problemstarted. Many people forget gen. Ali Moertopo for Papua 1969 was strategically what Ali himself and gen. Benny Moerdani were for East Timor.
A happy end for Abhisit
Please do not blame Eton and Oxford; schools only teach knowledge, moral must be taught at homes.
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
It takes no expertise to grasp that Indonesian Law recognizes only one bar association – PERADI – as legitimate, and that PERADI permanently disbarred Todung Mulya Lubis in mid-2008. It’s explicit and clear in: Indonesian statute UU No 18/2003, BAB X Pasal 28 (1), BAB XII Pasal 32 (3) & (4); PERADI’s 2005 inauguration records, and; 2006 and 2010 Consitutional Court declarations further confirming PERADI’s standing.
Following such plain Indonesian sources, there should be some serious questioning of the agenda run by much English-language journalism on the matter, and serious scrutiny of western-based experts who keep promoting permanently disbarred lawyer Todung Mulya Lubis.
Of course, Todung’s been trying to get Indonesian Law changed to get himself out of his legal limbo of permanent disbarment, perhaps proving the inefficacy of the destabilization campaign via his fringe astro-turf “bar associations” etc., such as KAI, KAUD, and his supposedly revived “IKADIN”, existence of which would all contravene the statutory provisions.
A missing boat and a missing voice
As an often lone voice she chose the principle of Primum non mocere for her avocation.
As an example of “Freedom from Fear”she lives her live daily.
Can you suggest any thing she can do for the HR of the mostly Bengali Kalar present plight, a known historical fact that is created by the British that has evolve to present quagmire.
May be you should learn more about Myanmar other quagmires, yet to be addressed.
A happy end for Abhisit
This “Pretty Boy” Abhisit who had not worked a day in his life except a few months as an instructor at Thamasart University deserves to stay home. This is where he belongs, not in politics!
Rohingya and national identities in Burma
You’re welcome Aung. I noticed that Malaysia and Indonesia will resettle some “Rohingya: temporarily. It will be interesting to see how that will sit with local non-Muslims, as well as Malays and Indonesian Muslims. The thoroughly corrupt nation of Gambia, run by madman “Dr” Yahyee (who thinks Mangoes treat homosexuality) has agreed to take all 3000 “Rohingya” who have never even heard of Gambia. Gambians themselves are trying to leave this hell hole in droves. The Gambian leader is trying to demonstrate his Islamic Zakat (Charity), but I doubt anyone would want to be under his thumb.
Pol-la-muang: The making of superior Thais
“… only a few technocrats, the very same who drafted the constitution, would be qualified …” Which to me begs the question: but how did they get into these positions in the first place. Like you suggest these new institutions to be hard dismantle and thus likely to “spill over” into a next constitution, they obviously already arr a spillover from the past?! I am surprised the emperor is mentioned nowhere in the above article and it suggests he has a totally figurative role for all the reverence Thais seem to pay him?
Rohingya and national identities in Burma
Thanks Peter and Derek!
A missing boat and a missing voice
I have lost my respects for Aung San Suu Kyi long time ago. Human rights just don’t work for only certain groups of people.
Rohingya and national identities in Burma
Unfortunately the Mandala HTML tag system (which I don’t understand) cut off the first line of my post, which read:
http://tinyurl.com/nr3x2k3
I have not been able to insert this as an active URL.
The content suggests how in 1948 the Jamiatul-Ulema North Arakan set the tone for the next 10 years as they worked studiously to fashion ‘Rohingya’ from a range of possible ethnic designations. They no doubt had the best of intentions, but had not perhaps understood how the dragooning of separate Muslim communities in Arakan into a monolithic political entity might upset the Rakhine community, who got along reasonably well with the indigenous Kaman and Yakhain-kala, who spoke Arakanese, but not the more recent Chittagonian settlers who were rather too industrious for their liking.
A missing boat and a missing voice
There seems to be a general misunderstanding and misconception that fuel the present debate.
In Myanmar Kalar is the designation for anyone with Indo-caucasoid feature. As it is Kalar, now is referred to anyone of Indo-parkistani descend.
Kalar, and Tayoke are 2 major none indegenous major ethnic groups within Myanmar.
Kalar is further branded as 2 main group Muslim or HIndu Kalar. With the place of worship, pali(s).
In the eyes of most Myanmar citizenry (the one claimed to be Bamar)the terms used to describe the 2 races Kalar Soak and Pauk paw gyi describe the degree of “acceptance sentiment”sentiment” mainly due to willingness of the Pauk paw to accommodate to the Bamar way of life. Among the Kalar the Muslim are adamantly oppose to any integration while the Hindu Kalar integrate well due to the similar worshipped dieties.
Description above just touch on the ‘tip of the iceberg’ sentiment of Bamar perception of Kalar should make the west realize the present blaming/forcing of Myanmar to accept Kalar in a manner with respect to western concept of HR.
Rohingya and national identities in Burma
Aung,
All “Rohingya” are Bangladeshis or, prior to East Pakistan’s reversion to Bangladesh, were simply Bengali Muslims from West Bengal State under British India (which included Burma). There is no mention of “Rohingya” for a reason, Aung. There were, and are, no separate ethnic group(s) known as “Rohingya” except to those individuals, who wish to ideologise a people who are members of a 166 million population, known as Bangladeshis. You are correct, I believe, in using the term “lobbyist”. It is accurate, more so than the putative origins of this much “maligned” group. Sheikh Hasina Wajed will go on, for hours, about the suffering “Rohingya”, but won’t take any of her brethren back. No doubt, historically, Bengali Muslims have suffered at the hands of Punjabis and Sindhis, who tried to snuff out Bengali language and culture, that led to the genocide of 2 million Bengali Muslims, and the ultimate formation of Bangladesh. This is recorded history and cannot be revised, by Pakistan. This is no way is diminished by the re-invention of the “Rohingya”, but the fact remains that the “Rohingya” are Muslims of Bengali origin, indivisible from Bangladeshis.
A happy end for Abhisit
Chris – has anyone done more than Abhisit to raise the spectre of the break-up of the Thai state? What about you, Chris. Mrs Namman has been counting through the New Mandala archives and so far she has found that you have forecast it 423 times. She is still counting! She is starting to wonder if we should hang onto our lamyai plantation in Nong Khai.