This piece was published to New Manadala first and then passed on to other regional outlets by the author. This is still a publication policy we stick to. Of course, NM’s editors always reserve the right to determine what we do and what we don’t publish.
Perhaps you can prevail upon the always voluble Mahathir bin Mohammad, hero of the Islamic World, to match his phony Islamic rhetoric with reality, and prevent 900 “Rohingyas” from drowning on a rickety boat. AH, but then PETRONAS wants all those rich natural gas fields off the coast of the Mergui Peninsula. Oh well, I guess trade trumps tolerance. Hey, them “Rohingya” don’t look very Malay anyway (why should they ? They are Bangladeshis).
Must say Nancy Hudson-Rodd has been steadfast in writing one th side of the underdog. But this article was obviously by way of highlighting the yet another meaningless self-serving talkfest of the has-been’s and wannabe’s.
One does ahve to admire the push-pull fishing technique of “international communities” (a code word for governments from a few nations doing the job for the international corporations) once cheering and once condemning the so-called “Thein Sein” Kyut-pyae government.
Meanwhile no one really does anything for the Rohingya whithering and shivelling under the sun, most importantly by their own Rohingya diaspora apart from loudly condemning Thein Sein. Putting Aung San Suu Kyi in the same camp is the only newer feature of 2015 season.
How much money did the Attorney-General’s Department make to disbarred lawyer Todung Mulya Lubis? Surely those figures will be available there in Canberra?
NB Apologies for not replying to Suriyan Raiwa’s comments. Thanks for finding the little essay odd, odd and odd: it is meant to be. I find that a compliment especially as I don’t claim to be a Thai specialist, but a Southeast Asian ‘generalist’. I find it always a good pedagogical tool to compare objects that are not usually juxtaposed as it helps to “think outside the box’, in the New Mandala spirit.
Thanks also to bringing to the attention of New Mandala readers the important work on Ton Duc Thang by Christoph Giebel published with a fine university press. Work on Ho Chi Minh, on the contrary, gets to be published by mainstream commercial publishers (not necessarily a good thing) which would seem to confirm my point about the arbitrary nature of cult-making.
If we accept that international relations have more substance than the mere form of organizational acronyms, we could see how strategical dynamics can often subvert the established order of formal alliances, perhaps especially so during periods of long economic crisis and proxy-war instability.
Wikipedia: “Indonesia, Turkey, Mexico and Germany have been mentioned as candidates for full membership of the BRICS…”
Therefore, at least some authoritative sources between 2012-2014 already identify Indonesia as having a very close association with the association known as “BRICS”, if not a de facto or partial membership. Indonesia confirmed such a shift via close negotiations and separate bilateral and multilateral agreements with BRICS nations – especially via early joining AIDB – whatever the shelf-life of the spat with Brazil.
From his passing query, it seems Greg Lopez has grasped this, but I expect he has a closer understanding of such diplomacy than I can have, and could articulate it better too.
Before we get into this, a few quick questions. Have you watched the videos? Do you know what is happening at the “reconciliation” seminars? Have you been reading http://www.prachatai.com recently (including the English language site)?
Considering Saudi Arabia’s (and the GCC) grand contribution of $0 towards the Aceh disaster in 2004 (Asian Tsunami), and the recent execution of a mentally-ill Indonesian homeworker in Saudi Arabia with no benefit of psychological counsel, Indonesians may well-play Islamic Brotherhood and Ummah and all that nonsense for public consumption, but most of my very close Indonesian friends, had something else to say entirely about Riyadh privately. When I delicately reminded them, that the favorite national scapegoat, Israel, provided more aid to Aceh in 2004, even if surreptitiously, than all other Islamic nations combined, they did not deny the fact, something they might have done 10-20 years ago. Any improvement in self-realisation and honesty is a good thing. Indonesia parting company with Saudi Arabia is both honest and good; parting with Oz in the LONG run, is neither honest nor good.
Marthinus’ critical remarks concerning the type of experts found in Australian universities seem sound to me and his assessment of PM Abbott also seems to me to be to the point. However, I did not get the impression that FM Bishop (is Australia a theocratic state run by abbots and bishops?)took the sort of I’m-more-moral-than-you stance which so many westerners like to take when criticising others (including their fellow westerners). But on one point I strongly disagree with Mr Martinus – ‘the gently persuasive role of the Filipino public’ on the matter of MJ Veloso. For several days it was impossible to get along Salcedo St in central Makati because it was blocked by hordes of chanting and insult screaming Filipinos outside the Indonesian Embassy (who rage in similar fashion very often whenever they consider an insult to the nation has been committed by ghastly foreigners). Nor do I think that Aquino can take the credit for saving Veloso (or at least staying her execution); his bumbling yet autocratic and vengeful style of rule does not suggest the sort of tactful character attributed to him by Mr Marthinus. The Philippines Foreign Minister Romulo is, on the other hand,a really class act and I would suggest that he should be the one to receive Mr Marthinus’ praise for temporarily saving MJV despite what I am sure must have been the angry reports going to Jakarta from the diplomats in Indonesia’s embassy on Salcedo St regarding the treatment they were receiving.
Indonesia is not a member of BRICS. If it were, an extra ‘I’ would have to be inserted into ‘BRICS’, perhaps turning it into the unbecoming ‘BRICSI’.
If Indonesia ever tried to join BRICS, Brazil for one would be unlikely to offer its support.
Given that Saudi Arabia is also a member of the G20 and that Jokowi objected to the recent executions of two Indonesians carried out by that country, one wonders how Indonesia would demonstrate leadership ‘in the manner it handled the execution’. Would it be by advocating the death penalty or by condemning it?
Suggest this important document be posted on several academic libraries’ web-sites around the world – UK, US, Aust, etc., – where e-material is readily available without use of a password. I’m sure a compressed copy of the document can be produced, as well as specific pages for downloading, rather than the whole thing.
This is an excellent effort, much to be applauded. Congratulations!
My original blog and your reactions seem to come and go on the New Mandala website: sometimes being in recent posts and sometimes not even listed in the Thailand section. The ways of the (web) lord are impenetrable.
The press photos of King Bhumibol being taken from hospital to a Buddhist ceremony in the royal palace a couple of weeks ago can only further raise questions on the when the succession will occur.
However to return to the central issue raised in your thoughtful comments on the original article, namely will a cult of Bhumibol be created after he passes away. This is a valid question and, as the ubiquitous images of King Chulalongkorn, and the discourse surrounding him, for example in school textbooks, suggest this is entirely possible.Nevertheless other kings of the Chakri dynasty, including Mongkut, have not been so honoured.
The second question following from the first is would such a cult be effective. I think not for several reasons. Firstly, King Bhumibol is a political actor, as amply demonstrating in Duncan McCargo’s seminal 2005 article on the network monarchy. His physical presence, legitimized by his moral uprightness, is required for the other participants in the network to advance and protect their interests. Do keep in mind that one of the causes for the overthrow of Thaksin Shinawatra in 2006, was that he was seen as getting Prince Vajiralongkorn “in his pocket” thus challenging the exclusive interests of some in this network.
Secondly, following from this, even limited to performing the role of the Great Referee (as Bhumibol did in the Yuppy Revolution of in 1992) there has to be a real person, not a myth, on the throne.
Thirdly, one detects a kind of resigned cynicism – one that could explain the superficial calm in Thai society at this time – that would make the launching of such a cult to be treated with a degree of derision. In this regard the attempt by General, sorry PM, Prayuth to impose his 12 points of Thai good behavior in the school curricula is an admission of weakness, not of strength. After all, should not real patriotism and civic pride be already ingrained?
You’re most welcome Greg. I find it shocking that your curiosity is nowhere apparent in any other Australian media. A hypothetical parallel case would be instant scandal in Indonesia and other countries; indeed, Todung’s continued “practice” and challenges to PERADI are an ongoing scandal in Indonesian reports of efforts there to exert Rule of Law.
I cannot identify any Indonesian push to assert leadership in BRICS/G20 around the executions or their handling, but I note that the stern anti-narcotics message is consistent with much of BRICS’ Eurasian component and the more common East Asian trauma resulting from the Early Modern period’s opium trade.
Thank you Nich. Coming through again with on the ground, reality, report.
Instead of most article here are base on others, rather than realities.
Have you experienced any ‘graft’ with your encounters?
An issue that can become really problematic for the rural citizenry whom has no Monk to rely on for the ongoing basic advancement that the urban enjoy.
Very interesting post. However, I have one question for Chris Beale that I hope he can answer. The first is that despite the history of how Isarn became incorporated into Thailand does Chris have any evidence that this sense of loss is very palpable across the river in the Lao PDR? I have not been a party to such a narrative/s although that does not mean they do not exist.The second question is, despite the existing conjecture in Isarn are there really many Isarn people who would seek to become “citizens” of the Lao PDR? Once more I have not met many Isarn people that even at a meta-level harbor such an aspiration. Although as with my first question I may well be wrong. But I would like some evidence of these narratives.
Many thanks to New Mandala – and especially the authors – for publishing this excellent, very to
timely article. Professor Winichakul’s research is indeed a vital starting point. He is a Siamese intellectual of the utmost integrity who has heroically suffered for such. The videos are also interesting. But there is a very , very different narrative here in the Lao PDR : namely one of Lao “lost territory” to the Thais, I.e. the 16 Lao majority Isarn provinces.
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Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
Hi Tukang
This piece was published to New Manadala first and then passed on to other regional outlets by the author. This is still a publication policy we stick to. Of course, NM’s editors always reserve the right to determine what we do and what we don’t publish.
All the best,
James
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
“New Mandala is the first and only outlet for publication. We do not republish material posted elsewhere.”
I guess this is not something that New Mandala enforces then?
“Never Again”: time to end genocide in Burma
Ohn,
Perhaps you can prevail upon the always voluble Mahathir bin Mohammad, hero of the Islamic World, to match his phony Islamic rhetoric with reality, and prevent 900 “Rohingyas” from drowning on a rickety boat. AH, but then PETRONAS wants all those rich natural gas fields off the coast of the Mergui Peninsula. Oh well, I guess trade trumps tolerance. Hey, them “Rohingya” don’t look very Malay anyway (why should they ? They are Bangladeshis).
“Never Again”: time to end genocide in Burma
Must say Nancy Hudson-Rodd has been steadfast in writing one th side of the underdog. But this article was obviously by way of highlighting the yet another meaningless self-serving talkfest of the has-been’s and wannabe’s.
One does ahve to admire the push-pull fishing technique of “international communities” (a code word for governments from a few nations doing the job for the international corporations) once cheering and once condemning the so-called “Thein Sein” Kyut-pyae government.
Meanwhile no one really does anything for the Rohingya whithering and shivelling under the sun, most importantly by their own Rohingya diaspora apart from loudly condemning Thein Sein. Putting Aung San Suu Kyi in the same camp is the only newer feature of 2015 season.
Withering on the vine of public opinion
How much money did the Attorney-General’s Department make to disbarred lawyer Todung Mulya Lubis? Surely those figures will be available there in Canberra?
See: http://www.news.com.au/national/bali-nine-executions-andrew-chan-and-myuran-sukumaran-in-legal-action-to-prevent-execution/story-fncynjr2-1227268538740
Was such funding also slotted into an “aid” category for the accounts, like much of the old AusAID-based consultancy largesse?
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
Hi Ken (#18.2.1.1.2),
You are right — Indonesia is not part of BRICS but they are going to be a major player on the global stage, if not already.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/chriswright/2014/01/06/after-the-brics-the-mints-catchy-acronym-but-can-you-make-any-money-from-it/
Succession and legitimacy: Vajiralongkorn and T├┤n Duc Thang
NB Apologies for not replying to Suriyan Raiwa’s comments. Thanks for finding the little essay odd, odd and odd: it is meant to be. I find that a compliment especially as I don’t claim to be a Thai specialist, but a Southeast Asian ‘generalist’. I find it always a good pedagogical tool to compare objects that are not usually juxtaposed as it helps to “think outside the box’, in the New Mandala spirit.
Thanks also to bringing to the attention of New Mandala readers the important work on Ton Duc Thang by Christoph Giebel published with a fine university press. Work on Ho Chi Minh, on the contrary, gets to be published by mainstream commercial publishers (not necessarily a good thing) which would seem to confirm my point about the arbitrary nature of cult-making.
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
If we accept that international relations have more substance than the mere form of organizational acronyms, we could see how strategical dynamics can often subvert the established order of formal alliances, perhaps especially so during periods of long economic crisis and proxy-war instability.
Wikipedia: “Indonesia, Turkey, Mexico and Germany have been mentioned as candidates for full membership of the BRICS…”
Therefore, at least some authoritative sources between 2012-2014 already identify Indonesia as having a very close association with the association known as “BRICS”, if not a de facto or partial membership. Indonesia confirmed such a shift via close negotiations and separate bilateral and multilateral agreements with BRICS nations – especially via early joining AIDB – whatever the shelf-life of the spat with Brazil.
From his passing query, it seems Greg Lopez has grasped this, but I expect he has a closer understanding of such diplomacy than I can have, and could articulate it better too.
Minorities and minority rights in Thailand
Before we get into this, a few quick questions. Have you watched the videos? Do you know what is happening at the “reconciliation” seminars? Have you been reading http://www.prachatai.com recently (including the English language site)?
Review of Red Stamps and Gold Stars
Outstanding non-carping review of a very good, and remarkably honest book
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
Considering Saudi Arabia’s (and the GCC) grand contribution of $0 towards the Aceh disaster in 2004 (Asian Tsunami), and the recent execution of a mentally-ill Indonesian homeworker in Saudi Arabia with no benefit of psychological counsel, Indonesians may well-play Islamic Brotherhood and Ummah and all that nonsense for public consumption, but most of my very close Indonesian friends, had something else to say entirely about Riyadh privately. When I delicately reminded them, that the favorite national scapegoat, Israel, provided more aid to Aceh in 2004, even if surreptitiously, than all other Islamic nations combined, they did not deny the fact, something they might have done 10-20 years ago. Any improvement in self-realisation and honesty is a good thing. Indonesia parting company with Saudi Arabia is both honest and good; parting with Oz in the LONG run, is neither honest nor good.
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
Marthinus’ critical remarks concerning the type of experts found in Australian universities seem sound to me and his assessment of PM Abbott also seems to me to be to the point. However, I did not get the impression that FM Bishop (is Australia a theocratic state run by abbots and bishops?)took the sort of I’m-more-moral-than-you stance which so many westerners like to take when criticising others (including their fellow westerners). But on one point I strongly disagree with Mr Martinus – ‘the gently persuasive role of the Filipino public’ on the matter of MJ Veloso. For several days it was impossible to get along Salcedo St in central Makati because it was blocked by hordes of chanting and insult screaming Filipinos outside the Indonesian Embassy (who rage in similar fashion very often whenever they consider an insult to the nation has been committed by ghastly foreigners). Nor do I think that Aquino can take the credit for saving Veloso (or at least staying her execution); his bumbling yet autocratic and vengeful style of rule does not suggest the sort of tactful character attributed to him by Mr Marthinus. The Philippines Foreign Minister Romulo is, on the other hand,a really class act and I would suggest that he should be the one to receive Mr Marthinus’ praise for temporarily saving MJV despite what I am sure must have been the angry reports going to Jakarta from the diplomats in Indonesia’s embassy on Salcedo St regarding the treatment they were receiving.
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
Indonesia is not a member of BRICS. If it were, an extra ‘I’ would have to be inserted into ‘BRICS’, perhaps turning it into the unbecoming ‘BRICSI’.
If Indonesia ever tried to join BRICS, Brazil for one would be unlikely to offer its support.
Given that Saudi Arabia is also a member of the G20 and that Jokowi objected to the recent executions of two Indonesians carried out by that country, one wonders how Indonesia would demonstrate leadership ‘in the manner it handled the execution’. Would it be by advocating the death penalty or by condemning it?
Minorities and minority rights in Thailand
Suggest this important document be posted on several academic libraries’ web-sites around the world – UK, US, Aust, etc., – where e-material is readily available without use of a password. I’m sure a compressed copy of the document can be produced, as well as specific pages for downloading, rather than the whole thing.
This is an excellent effort, much to be applauded. Congratulations!
Succession and legitimacy: Vajiralongkorn and T├┤n Duc Thang
My original blog and your reactions seem to come and go on the New Mandala website: sometimes being in recent posts and sometimes not even listed in the Thailand section. The ways of the (web) lord are impenetrable.
The press photos of King Bhumibol being taken from hospital to a Buddhist ceremony in the royal palace a couple of weeks ago can only further raise questions on the when the succession will occur.
However to return to the central issue raised in your thoughtful comments on the original article, namely will a cult of Bhumibol be created after he passes away. This is a valid question and, as the ubiquitous images of King Chulalongkorn, and the discourse surrounding him, for example in school textbooks, suggest this is entirely possible.Nevertheless other kings of the Chakri dynasty, including Mongkut, have not been so honoured.
The second question following from the first is would such a cult be effective. I think not for several reasons. Firstly, King Bhumibol is a political actor, as amply demonstrating in Duncan McCargo’s seminal 2005 article on the network monarchy. His physical presence, legitimized by his moral uprightness, is required for the other participants in the network to advance and protect their interests. Do keep in mind that one of the causes for the overthrow of Thaksin Shinawatra in 2006, was that he was seen as getting Prince Vajiralongkorn “in his pocket” thus challenging the exclusive interests of some in this network.
Secondly, following from this, even limited to performing the role of the Great Referee (as Bhumibol did in the Yuppy Revolution of in 1992) there has to be a real person, not a myth, on the throne.
Thirdly, one detects a kind of resigned cynicism – one that could explain the superficial calm in Thai society at this time – that would make the launching of such a cult to be treated with a degree of derision. In this regard the attempt by General, sorry PM, Prayuth to impose his 12 points of Thai good behavior in the school curricula is an admission of weakness, not of strength. After all, should not real patriotism and civic pride be already ingrained?
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
You’re most welcome Greg. I find it shocking that your curiosity is nowhere apparent in any other Australian media. A hypothetical parallel case would be instant scandal in Indonesia and other countries; indeed, Todung’s continued “practice” and challenges to PERADI are an ongoing scandal in Indonesian reports of efforts there to exert Rule of Law.
I cannot identify any Indonesian push to assert leadership in BRICS/G20 around the executions or their handling, but I note that the stern anti-narcotics message is consistent with much of BRICS’ Eurasian component and the more common East Asian trauma resulting from the Early Modern period’s opium trade.
All the best in your work
Matt
Scrambling to draw lessons
Thank you Nich. Coming through again with on the ground, reality, report.
Instead of most article here are base on others, rather than realities.
Have you experienced any ‘graft’ with your encounters?
An issue that can become really problematic for the rural citizenry whom has no Monk to rely on for the ongoing basic advancement that the urban enjoy.
Minorities and minority rights in Thailand
I take too long to download the map in PDF from Rayong even though I use ADSL.
Minorities and minority rights in Thailand
Very interesting post. However, I have one question for Chris Beale that I hope he can answer. The first is that despite the history of how Isarn became incorporated into Thailand does Chris have any evidence that this sense of loss is very palpable across the river in the Lao PDR? I have not been a party to such a narrative/s although that does not mean they do not exist.The second question is, despite the existing conjecture in Isarn are there really many Isarn people who would seek to become “citizens” of the Lao PDR? Once more I have not met many Isarn people that even at a meta-level harbor such an aspiration. Although as with my first question I may well be wrong. But I would like some evidence of these narratives.
Minorities and minority rights in Thailand
Many thanks to New Mandala – and especially the authors – for publishing this excellent, very to
timely article. Professor Winichakul’s research is indeed a vital starting point. He is a Siamese intellectual of the utmost integrity who has heroically suffered for such. The videos are also interesting. But there is a very , very different narrative here in the Lao PDR : namely one of Lao “lost territory” to the Thais, I.e. the 16 Lao majority Isarn provinces.