I think some people are misreading Greg’s statement about Prabowo. Without going into details, I would just say that one does not need to be a racist and smug white liberal elite to be surprised by Prabowo & KMP’s willingness to play ball with Jokowi so soon after the election.
Ease off the name calling Sir.
At last something relevant, unlike the Kessler trilogy.
This piece by Julkipli Wadi in the Philippines, which some readers will already be familiar with, begins to navigate a tentative path forward. He uses Eliade’s concept of Heirophony, sense of the sacred,to explain the dilemma faced by Muslims living in Western societies where faith has been lost.
Unfortunately he categorises us as ‘the other’ just as Kessler does to Muslims who don’t fit his prescription of modernity. Nevertheless he shows how Muslims living as a minority among a majority of faithless neighbours can live in peace. Have a read.
These guys need to wake up and understand it’s not only academic freedom at stake, it’s all political freedom at stake in the present Thai situation. THey are living in a Banana Republic ruled by a bunch of half-educated mafia thugs who dress up in pretty uniforms and call themselves generals. Plaintive whining isn’t gojng to accomplish anything. Physical action and risk are what will make the difference and if everyone is too timid, too meek, too submissive, the thugs now in power will have a clear path forward.
I agree with you, Robert Dayley, that legitimacy cannot be derived from coercion alone.
I guess that the those who support the junta would claim that Prayuth ‘khon di’ moral legitimacy trumps Thaksin’s democratic ‘ballot box’ legitimacy.
Most people in the West – and I would guess most Thais as well – would want the ballot box to prevail over alleged moral rectitude
Living in Thailand, I am not much optimistic about a possible turning point revealed by these recent protests. Actually, the passivity of the people is depressing, particularly that of the students if you compare with Hong Kong for example where the risk faced by protesters is much bigger. Thai students seem much more interested in the release of the last smartphone and the whiteness of their skin than in freedom and democracy. The ‘wait and see’ policy of the official opposition (Pheu Thai party and other ‘red shirts’) may sounds cautious, but meanwhile the military and their affiliates are cementing their power through a non-elected senate, a ‘made to be dissolved’ parliament and kind of a permanent NCPO keeping the upper hand on decisive matters.
We have, as ever, been patient but the indulgence of sock puppets runs out, eventually. Those of you who can’t stick to one designation, and abuse the opportunity to comment on New Mandala, make it more difficult for those who are trying to do the right thing.
It is quite clear that this is a struggle between Bangkok based elites determined to control the agenda and rural and working classes who have their own aspirations. No doubt the elites justify the seizure of power by claiming a fight a against corruption. No one with any insight believes this. Corruption in Thailand is endemic and this not the property of one side of politics. Traditionally the Army has been a leading exponent of the art as it is in other SE Asian countries such as Indonesia.you seem to imply that democracy needed to be dismantled because one political party won a number of free and fair elections and implemented it’s policies. The opposition could not garner enough support thus the need for a coup.
As regards your complaints about contributors to this site and bias, looking at most posts to date there doesn’t appear any evidence to support your claim. If you are referring to the number of dislikes your comments receive it may well be that others don’t regard your comments as particularly well supported with Reasoned analysis. There is world of difference between a debate and a rant.
hear,hear!! And trust me Mr Owen Rees, the so called “attacks” on your posts, as you put it, are most certainly NOT ad hominem. Rather, they are on your posts, & your absolute arrogance in claiming to speak for the majority of Thais. Further more, Your claim that other posters here are “playing the man” & not the ball, is just a cop-out from the fact that your claims really speak for a delusional minority group who have hijacked the electorate, and refuse to let go of their rights of passage and privilege at the expense of the common working class Thai citizen. Welcome to Galar Land
I love the way that NMites distract from the real issues. It’s not about ‘you against us’ or ‘rurals against elites’ – it’s more about the use of democracy to enrich oneself and make of oneself a democratic dictator able to legally steal because one’s party won the election. This the real issue that NMites avoid in discussions.
You think that NM is unbiased? Then why have many of my posts not been posted on this biased but upstanding webpage?
Mohamed Imran is to be commended for a sensitive and useful appeal for dialog between between those who believe in a supreme being (or supreme beings) and those who do not. He seems, however, to equate theism with religion. For many Buddhists, this linkage does not apply. Many Buddhists believe that the teachings of the Buddha did not include the idea of a god, but others, in their religious practices, show that they see supernatural beings at work behind the natural world. However, there is little discussion of this divide within Buddhism in Thailand or other Buddhist countries. The failure to have discussions of these differences may be contributing to the current problems within Buddhism that include misbehavior by monks, marketing for material gain by some temples and the failure of too many Buddhists to live up to the tenets of their religion. Therefore, I would like to suggest a broadening of Encik Imran’s call for athiest-theist discussions to include those within faiths. Even within Christianity I understand that there are different conceptions of god that range from a father figure to a vast and impersonal organizing force of nature. Such discussions would help us get beyond the simplistic labels that all too often make it easier to stir up hate and discord and to identify the common values and actions we hold as human beings.
In the Thai context political legitimacy is claimed by the junta and coup apologists on the basis of assertions that Thailand is different to Western democracies. Nonsensical regime sponsored opinion polls seek to reinforce the notion that Thais are happy with the government. That Thais understand the reasons and need for the coup.There is no doubt that a significant proportion of the Bangkok elite believe that rule by junta is preferable to rule by a party representing the rural and working class.There is certainly a view held by many of the so called educated class that government must not be entrusted to parties that shamelessly attract the up country vote. Legitimacy is also claimed on the basis that the present regime is defending attacks against the institution of monarchy. Thus the rise in the number of LM witch hunts.Further, legitimacy is claimed on the basis of morality and rule by good people as evidenced by the promulgation of the 12 virtues And the compulsory recitation of these in schools. So in the eyes of the junta it has legitimacy. It remains to be seen as to whether the Thai people agree. I rather suspect many of them do not.
I call myself a “Thailand writer” rather than academic or journalist because I’m an unqualified hack who writes books of idiotic fluff that nobody buys. Please forgive me.
Mr Owens Rees,
I am sorry but I have difficulty reconciling your posts.
In #1.3 you say:
‘I talk to Thais and they read your posts.’
Here (#5) you say:
‘Thais don’t read what you write’
If we must refer Jokowi to the Crito dialogue at all, I would suggest that he be asked to read a different passage, the one in which Socrates tells his visitor:
“Well then, we ought never to return evil for evil and never do harm to any man at all, whatever we may suffer at his hands”.
Jusuf Kalla has praised Australia over the past few days for begging (‘minta-minta’) politely for clemency rather than behaving discourteously as the Brazilians have allegedly done. Dilma Roussef seems to cancelled the new Indonesian ambassador’s presentation of credentials even after he had arrived at her palace.
It is revealing that Kalla should compare the reaction of a country, one of whose citizens has already been executed, with Australia, whose two unfortunate citizens are still to have ‘evil returned to them’ by the cruel means of a firing-squad’s bullets.
Can Mr Abbott risk adding to his unpopularity by refraining from recalling our ambassador if the executions proceed? Always assuming, that is, that Paul Grigson will already have presented his credentials, which is not yet the case.
The good smart professor was luckily spared with the inevitable question about the Australian PM’s weird remarks about tsunami’s aid. Did the interviewer really forget it or do it on purpose? Jokowi’s initial clumsy leadership seems to get instant domestic boost by more clumsy remarks from a stubborn neighbour — http://ww2.thejakartapost.com/news/2015/02/23/protests-continue-against-abbott-s-hurtful-comments.html
That’s a straw man argument on so many levels that I won’t comment it here.
And to all the others: As Matt Owen Rees seems to carry his “Thumbs down” as some kind of “badge of honour”, let’s just not give him this pleasure and stop voting on his comments at all (neither in favour nor against)
‘respected members of the Australian criminological and judicial communities’
Great idea, waste my tax sending academics to tell them how we solve crime by locking up blackfellas, the younger the better. Indigenous peoples East of Bali will be so pleased.
BNN says 50% of Village Heads in Sampang Madura are involved with narcotics. There are some 200 villages. Executions? Nup. Where do the drugs come from? Aceh probably, where GAM used to grow ganja to fund their war. Sampang, home to Sunni villages that attack and burn Shia villages. So, RI has big problems, all homemade and Widodo finds it easier to scapegoat outsiders than address the roots of his internal problems. Kill more foreigners! Lock up more blackfellas!
Far more useful, dare I say errr ‘Strategic,’ is for us to get serious about a bilateral prisoner swap for all crimes and write it into the Lombok Treaty. Shoulda been done a decade ago, rather than the reactive groundhog day diplomacy we trot out whenever something like this happens. And will continue to happen.
Agreed, Sven. Dissidents are always a minority as you rightly say. That’s why attacks on me when i voice the opinion that the majority of Thais are not dissenting are so wrong (and vindictive). Just shows the attacks are against the poster not the post. Nothing new there of course.
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The unfulfilled promise of Joko Widodo
I think some people are misreading Greg’s statement about Prabowo. Without going into details, I would just say that one does not need to be a racist and smug white liberal elite to be surprised by Prabowo & KMP’s willingness to play ball with Jokowi so soon after the election.
Ease off the name calling Sir.
Religion and atheism: the need for dialogue
At last something relevant, unlike the Kessler trilogy.
This piece by Julkipli Wadi in the Philippines, which some readers will already be familiar with, begins to navigate a tentative path forward. He uses Eliade’s concept of Heirophony, sense of the sacred,to explain the dilemma faced by Muslims living in Western societies where faith has been lost.
Unfortunately he categorises us as ‘the other’ just as Kessler does to Muslims who don’t fit his prescription of modernity. Nevertheless he shows how Muslims living as a minority among a majority of faithless neighbours can live in peace. Have a read.
http://www.mindanews.com/mindaviews/2015/02/08/crucible-charlie-hebdo-and-heirophany/
Remembering “Tok Guru”
The two divided far off in opposite poles only seem to be similar in topics
Academic freedom in Thailand
These guys need to wake up and understand it’s not only academic freedom at stake, it’s all political freedom at stake in the present Thai situation. THey are living in a Banana Republic ruled by a bunch of half-educated mafia thugs who dress up in pretty uniforms and call themselves generals. Plaintive whining isn’t gojng to accomplish anything. Physical action and risk are what will make the difference and if everyone is too timid, too meek, too submissive, the thugs now in power will have a clear path forward.
V-Day resistance to the junta’s coercive regime
I agree with you, Robert Dayley, that legitimacy cannot be derived from coercion alone.
I guess that the those who support the junta would claim that Prayuth ‘khon di’ moral legitimacy trumps Thaksin’s democratic ‘ballot box’ legitimacy.
Most people in the West – and I would guess most Thais as well – would want the ballot box to prevail over alleged moral rectitude
V-Day resistance to the junta’s coercive regime
Living in Thailand, I am not much optimistic about a possible turning point revealed by these recent protests. Actually, the passivity of the people is depressing, particularly that of the students if you compare with Hong Kong for example where the risk faced by protesters is much bigger. Thai students seem much more interested in the release of the last smartphone and the whiteness of their skin than in freedom and democracy. The ‘wait and see’ policy of the official opposition (Pheu Thai party and other ‘red shirts’) may sounds cautious, but meanwhile the military and their affiliates are cementing their power through a non-elected senate, a ‘made to be dissolved’ parliament and kind of a permanent NCPO keeping the upper hand on decisive matters.
V-Day resistance to the junta’s coercive regime
We have, as ever, been patient but the indulgence of sock puppets runs out, eventually. Those of you who can’t stick to one designation, and abuse the opportunity to comment on New Mandala, make it more difficult for those who are trying to do the right thing.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
V-Day resistance to the junta’s coercive regime
It is quite clear that this is a struggle between Bangkok based elites determined to control the agenda and rural and working classes who have their own aspirations. No doubt the elites justify the seizure of power by claiming a fight a against corruption. No one with any insight believes this. Corruption in Thailand is endemic and this not the property of one side of politics. Traditionally the Army has been a leading exponent of the art as it is in other SE Asian countries such as Indonesia.you seem to imply that democracy needed to be dismantled because one political party won a number of free and fair elections and implemented it’s policies. The opposition could not garner enough support thus the need for a coup.
As regards your complaints about contributors to this site and bias, looking at most posts to date there doesn’t appear any evidence to support your claim. If you are referring to the number of dislikes your comments receive it may well be that others don’t regard your comments as particularly well supported with Reasoned analysis. There is world of difference between a debate and a rant.
V-Day resistance to the junta’s coercive regime
hear,hear!! And trust me Mr Owen Rees, the so called “attacks” on your posts, as you put it, are most certainly NOT ad hominem. Rather, they are on your posts, & your absolute arrogance in claiming to speak for the majority of Thais. Further more, Your claim that other posters here are “playing the man” & not the ball, is just a cop-out from the fact that your claims really speak for a delusional minority group who have hijacked the electorate, and refuse to let go of their rights of passage and privilege at the expense of the common working class Thai citizen. Welcome to Galar Land
V-Day resistance to the junta’s coercive regime
robert, you suspect from your own biased and predjudiced viewpoint. The only people unhappy with the coup are hardcore NMites and thakisn lovers.
V-Day resistance to the junta’s coercive regime
I love the way that NMites distract from the real issues. It’s not about ‘you against us’ or ‘rurals against elites’ – it’s more about the use of democracy to enrich oneself and make of oneself a democratic dictator able to legally steal because one’s party won the election. This the real issue that NMites avoid in discussions.
You think that NM is unbiased? Then why have many of my posts not been posted on this biased but upstanding webpage?
Religion and atheism: the need for dialogue
Mohamed Imran is to be commended for a sensitive and useful appeal for dialog between between those who believe in a supreme being (or supreme beings) and those who do not. He seems, however, to equate theism with religion. For many Buddhists, this linkage does not apply. Many Buddhists believe that the teachings of the Buddha did not include the idea of a god, but others, in their religious practices, show that they see supernatural beings at work behind the natural world. However, there is little discussion of this divide within Buddhism in Thailand or other Buddhist countries. The failure to have discussions of these differences may be contributing to the current problems within Buddhism that include misbehavior by monks, marketing for material gain by some temples and the failure of too many Buddhists to live up to the tenets of their religion. Therefore, I would like to suggest a broadening of Encik Imran’s call for athiest-theist discussions to include those within faiths. Even within Christianity I understand that there are different conceptions of god that range from a father figure to a vast and impersonal organizing force of nature. Such discussions would help us get beyond the simplistic labels that all too often make it easier to stir up hate and discord and to identify the common values and actions we hold as human beings.
V-Day resistance to the junta’s coercive regime
In the Thai context political legitimacy is claimed by the junta and coup apologists on the basis of assertions that Thailand is different to Western democracies. Nonsensical regime sponsored opinion polls seek to reinforce the notion that Thais are happy with the government. That Thais understand the reasons and need for the coup.There is no doubt that a significant proportion of the Bangkok elite believe that rule by junta is preferable to rule by a party representing the rural and working class.There is certainly a view held by many of the so called educated class that government must not be entrusted to parties that shamelessly attract the up country vote. Legitimacy is also claimed on the basis that the present regime is defending attacks against the institution of monarchy. Thus the rise in the number of LM witch hunts.Further, legitimacy is claimed on the basis of morality and rule by good people as evidenced by the promulgation of the 12 virtues And the compulsory recitation of these in schools. So in the eyes of the junta it has legitimacy. It remains to be seen as to whether the Thai people agree. I rather suspect many of them do not.
V-Day resistance to the junta’s coercive regime
I call myself a “Thailand writer” rather than academic or journalist because I’m an unqualified hack who writes books of idiotic fluff that nobody buys. Please forgive me.
V-Day resistance to the junta’s coercive regime
Mr Owens Rees,
I am sorry but I have difficulty reconciling your posts.
In #1.3 you say:
‘I talk to Thais and they read your posts.’
Here (#5) you say:
‘Thais don’t read what you write’
A fatal mistake
If we must refer Jokowi to the Crito dialogue at all, I would suggest that he be asked to read a different passage, the one in which Socrates tells his visitor:
“Well then, we ought never to return evil for evil and never do harm to any man at all, whatever we may suffer at his hands”.
Jusuf Kalla has praised Australia over the past few days for begging (‘minta-minta’) politely for clemency rather than behaving discourteously as the Brazilians have allegedly done. Dilma Roussef seems to cancelled the new Indonesian ambassador’s presentation of credentials even after he had arrived at her palace.
It is revealing that Kalla should compare the reaction of a country, one of whose citizens has already been executed, with Australia, whose two unfortunate citizens are still to have ‘evil returned to them’ by the cruel means of a firing-squad’s bullets.
Can Mr Abbott risk adding to his unpopularity by refraining from recalling our ambassador if the executions proceed? Always assuming, that is, that Paul Grigson will already have presented his credentials, which is not yet the case.
The unfulfilled promise of Joko Widodo
The good smart professor was luckily spared with the inevitable question about the Australian PM’s weird remarks about tsunami’s aid. Did the interviewer really forget it or do it on purpose? Jokowi’s initial clumsy leadership seems to get instant domestic boost by more clumsy remarks from a stubborn neighbour — http://ww2.thejakartapost.com/news/2015/02/23/protests-continue-against-abbott-s-hurtful-comments.html
V-Day resistance to the junta’s coercive regime
That’s a straw man argument on so many levels that I won’t comment it here.
And to all the others: As Matt Owen Rees seems to carry his “Thumbs down” as some kind of “badge of honour”, let’s just not give him this pleasure and stop voting on his comments at all (neither in favour nor against)
A fatal mistake
‘respected members of the Australian criminological and judicial communities’
Great idea, waste my tax sending academics to tell them how we solve crime by locking up blackfellas, the younger the better. Indigenous peoples East of Bali will be so pleased.
BNN says 50% of Village Heads in Sampang Madura are involved with narcotics. There are some 200 villages. Executions? Nup. Where do the drugs come from? Aceh probably, where GAM used to grow ganja to fund their war. Sampang, home to Sunni villages that attack and burn Shia villages. So, RI has big problems, all homemade and Widodo finds it easier to scapegoat outsiders than address the roots of his internal problems. Kill more foreigners! Lock up more blackfellas!
Far more useful, dare I say errr ‘Strategic,’ is for us to get serious about a bilateral prisoner swap for all crimes and write it into the Lombok Treaty. Shoulda been done a decade ago, rather than the reactive groundhog day diplomacy we trot out whenever something like this happens. And will continue to happen.
V-Day resistance to the junta’s coercive regime
Agreed, Sven. Dissidents are always a minority as you rightly say. That’s why attacks on me when i voice the opinion that the majority of Thais are not dissenting are so wrong (and vindictive). Just shows the attacks are against the poster not the post. Nothing new there of course.