You’d be surprised to learn how often someone would put down Bamar Muslim as ethnicity. Granted it was King Mindon who recognised them as an entity for their loyal service during his reign, but it’s not the same as ethnicity. Why can’t they say Bamar, Kalar or Bamar Kalar? Likewise Bosnian Muslims are Turkic Slavs. Albanian Muslims just Albanians, aren’t they?
[…] there’s no need to file a full review – that’s already been very ably done by Magnus Fiskesjö at New Mandala. Rather, I plan over five successive days to pick up very briefly on parts of the analysis that […]
Why should we not mock the generals? If they are big, brave boys who can go out and fight wars, I think a bit of mockery shouldn’t make them crumble and cry.
Perhaps no one understands “how Theists think” because “Theists” is hardly a homogenous category. Lumping together Christians, Jews, Muslims and everyone else who believes in some form of god into a common box, and then trying to discern a pattern to “their” thinking is a futile exercise in overgeneralization
Great suggestion about hearing from founders of groups like HT though, it would be surprising if people like Abdurrahman al Baghdadi takes it up.
Lolitas and his ilk are far more suited to Thaivisa and the BKK Post than New Mandala. Absolutely no ability to critically analyse issues.This site really isn’t supposed to be a forum for uninformed rants.
lolitas brother, We are all sorry Andrew but Thailand doesn’t care what you think.
This is not true A.M M. has a big following among Thai people. They tell me they like the way he cuts through the b. s. and exposes the truth. Others do not like what he says but they do care.That is why they go to such great lengths to block his web sites and to threaten anyone who ‘likes’ his comments with jail time.
Censorship and repression are very much part of the dictator toolbox.
Your use of inflaming language in your rant does not make your points any valid. Already the claim that the former government came to power (i reluctantly use this term as any elected government in Thailand is not exactly what can be called “in power”) is simply wrong. The 2011 elections were observed by ANFREL their findings to not support your or Democrat Party/PDRC propaganda. Furthermore i would suggest to read Chris Baker’s Bangkok Post article titled “Vote-buying claims nothing but dangerous nonsense”.
Furthermore, your claim that the Red Shirts are “socialists” is simply ridiculous. For example, TRT/PPP/PT closest partner in Germany is not the German Social Democrat Party (SPD), or the Socialist Party (Die Linke), but the conservative parties CSU and CDU.
Previously the partner of the Democrat Party has been the German Liberal Party (as both are in the Liberal International), but now the relationship between the Liberal International and Thailand’s Democrat Party is rather icy since the antics of the PDRC.
And before you start – i live in Thailand, in a normal mixed lower class/middle class neighborhood, and presume that i am therefore not exactly out of touch of what takes place here on the streets in Thailand.
I just added my dislike to get you to 100. You seem to have a weird fixation on this like/dislike thing which is rather a trivial feature of the blog. I dislike your posts because essentially they say nothing except that you’re being persecuted and prevented from speaking. However, I believe there’s no prohibition on you continuing to post whatever you like. Perhaps one day, you may come up with some interesting ideas. I never normally tick like or dislike anything but, I promise that when you say something interesting, I’ll give it a tick. Hope that makes you happy.
You are of course quite free to like or dislike my post. It won’t matter to me very much.
By the blatant misanalyzes of ‘Yellow’ as social democrat and ‘Red’ as elite and money you have catapulted yourself out of the discussion.
Yellow is an alliance of former communists, anarchists, conservative middle classes, traditional elites, extreme nationalists, militarists and southern gangster politicians.
Red is an alliance of new money elites, emerging middle classes (both rural and urban), disadvantaged sectors of Thai society, former communists and other progressives.
None of both are “social democrats”. Red is somewhat social liberal in its vision for Thai society, and Yellow has never really been able to present a coherent vision for the future of Thailand, and is more unified in their rejection of Thaksin and the Red Shirts.
Forgive plan B. He shoots his mouth off without pausing for a breath, hence a rambling and incoherent missive most of the time. An incorrigible nationalist Strongman fan to boot. All the “useless careless west” needs to do is engage with (appease the right word?) such a strong ruler so it can “help the citizenry”.
There’s no shortage of junta apologists either among the academics or among the commenters.
The essay by John Blaxland, seemed a good synopsis to me, I congratulate him, and I agree in general but of course like some writers here, he does not live in Thailand .
He appears to think Westerners are fundamentally opposed to the military regime, but that is not the case with the people I come into contact with, and even villagers in Isaan.
It is worth noting that almost entire conversation here seems to be between Westerners .
As well people like Andrew McGregor can have no idea what is going on in the streets of Thailand . He is out of touch with what is, and also he does not live here, and is not welcome. His torso and brain are constricted by the red shirt he hysterically lives by.
Democracy .. well It appears to elude some , that democracy is not finalized when the votes are in, having been the result of election bribes, and that Government by proxy to a criminal in exile for his own benefit is in fact democracy. Democracy is a delicate flower made coarse by Thailand’s corruption and some here, and a proxy idiot prime Minister carrying suitcases of bonds to her criminal brother in Dubai is not democracy.
It is fraud. Soon enough Yingluck will be indicted on negligence at the highest level , and she will leave for overseas, and no return. For commenters here to say that Yingluck was the face of democracy here n Thailand is just so absurd as to be clinically out of reality.
It stripped wealth out of Thailand to about 800,billion baht, on a criminally stupid rice scheme and maybe another similar amount to the Thaksin and cronies. Yes that’s democracy for us, and that democracy is gone.
The Yingluck Shinawatra Government was utterly and pathetically stupid, and disgraceful to Thailand, by any standards, and it is gone, and kit will never be back.
Neither will be the redshirt socialism that people who in far away lands dream of..It was hosed. It stripped wealth out and had some of the most corrupt people imaginable on the take.
All the red shirt drivel on sites like this does not make anything true. This regime is welcomed by many Thais. I know that in my Wife’s village in Maha Sarakham, many people welcome the development, and feel good that they can say so. In their last vote they were stood over by village elders who encouraged by various means them to vote red,
Thailand and China
The relationship is closer than necessary, and that is because the idiot Kenyan and his ambassador screamed at the Military takeover.
This is ‘extremely dangerous’ because China want to build road, and rail and sea corridors throughout Asia and further to advance their own Nation.
Thailand would have to hock itself into debt if China provides rail links to Singapore and it will only serve China. Thai people in the North can not afford high speed rail links, for China to advance through Laos toard Vietnam and Burma and India .
Australia and the South seas.
Australia is likely to take more notice of John Blaxland than the hysterical Andrew McGregor. Australia and New Zealand are pursuing free trade links with Thailand , and we know how to do it, without the Thaksin people. I generally send reports back to our people that the longer Prayut progresses Thailand the better for all of us. Trade is fundamentally important to this new Government .
There is more much more, but reader scan be assured that governments Western have more worries on their heads than whether John Blaxland’s summary is correct. I think its reasonable, although he is not on the ground .I am . People like Andrew McGregor are not and never will be.
Andrew McGregor, sacked by Reuters for his arrogant know all attitude, lambasts us all with hi superior knowledge not. We are all sorry Andrew but Thailand doesn’t care what you think
Darren – The only way a legislative body can fully reflect the views of the electorate is that it is elected. A fully elected Senate is the only way to achieve this. No democracy is perfect. As Sceptic points out below:
We all know that such procedural democracies like UK are not only far from perfect but are subject to continual challenges, both external and internal. Nonetheless they still work. Maybe you would say they “just work”! I suggest to you that the recent Scottish independence referendum was a good example of effective procedural democracy in action.
In addition, in the UK, there are political disagreements between the various political parties on the exact nature of the reform and it they have not moved to a fully elected (or 80% elected chamber). As Steve has also noted the lower house of parliament is Supreme by virtue of the Parliament Acts. If this was the not the case and the House of Lords actually had real power to defeat legislation or remove an elected government, BP doesn’t doubt, the various political parties would have found agreement on reform of the House of Lords. Democracies have different priorities. There is nothing wrong with that.
In the zeal to condemn any kind of coup, a lot of dear commentators here let personal conviction of what Thailand should and could be to what Thailand is going to be.
Let just agree to disagree that this author has taken the poetic license a tad too far.
Explaining the coup and the supporters do not an apologist made. Behind every Asian country is a hopefully here none too self serving Strong Man.
In the past there has always been the revered monarch to break the stalemate between, the elected and the others. This round of stalemate see the elitists (The money) vs the Socialist Democratic (Yellow even though not very clear cut) supported by the mostly oppressed and wronged. The military saw no resolution with the south becoming more unstable.
IT is a precarious time with the monarch ailing and no one respectable enough to bridge any bickering. Decisions need to be made in a military mind. At this time with promise of return to civilian rule let us hope by not mocking the intents of the Generals.
The argument that Thailand is unlike any other country is an often cited straw man. Thailand is not the only country on earth that has a monarchy. Many European countries in the past went through conflicts of somewhat similar social and political transformation. The resulting turmoil was contained in some countries, and in others not. Which way Thailand will go is still open. But one thing that has been made clear in the past ten years is that a majority of the population wants a democratic system, and that the demands of the population of participation are an increasing factor in the determination of Thailand’s future and not just the machinations of the elites you cited.
If Blaxland has a conservative view on Thailand, he is entitled to it. But when he supports that view with distorted facts, then i am perfectly entitled to point this out and correct them.
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Rohingya and national identities in Burma
I would put down Homo-Erectus-Atheist as my ethnicity.
Enough of this primitive racial classification rubbish I better go read “Mein Kampf” LOL
Rohingya and national identities in Burma
Monique,
You’d be surprised to learn how often someone would put down Bamar Muslim as ethnicity. Granted it was King Mindon who recognised them as an entity for their loyal service during his reign, but it’s not the same as ethnicity. Why can’t they say Bamar, Kalar or Bamar Kalar? Likewise Bosnian Muslims are Turkic Slavs. Albanian Muslims just Albanians, aren’t they?
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
lolitas brother
There is indeed plenty valuable ‘On The Ground’ facts that you have described.
I and my ilk value these facts.
Take it slow, do not let your emotion get ahead.
The facts that this coup went w/o a hitch speaks volume.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
If you truly desire to take a higher ground at New Mandala do not do it at the others’ expense.
Behind every rant is an idea or better even a message.
Can that makes your idea just another rant?
Review of Being and Becoming Kachin
[…] there’s no need to file a full review – that’s already been very ably done by Magnus Fiskesjö at New Mandala. Rather, I plan over five successive days to pick up very briefly on parts of the analysis that […]
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Why should we not mock the generals? If they are big, brave boys who can go out and fight wars, I think a bit of mockery shouldn’t make them crumble and cry.
Why Indonesia banned ISIS
Perhaps no one understands “how Theists think” because “Theists” is hardly a homogenous category. Lumping together Christians, Jews, Muslims and everyone else who believes in some form of god into a common box, and then trying to discern a pattern to “their” thinking is a futile exercise in overgeneralization
Great suggestion about hearing from founders of groups like HT though, it would be surprising if people like Abdurrahman al Baghdadi takes it up.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Lolitas and his ilk are far more suited to Thaivisa and the BKK Post than New Mandala. Absolutely no ability to critically analyse issues.This site really isn’t supposed to be a forum for uninformed rants.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
lolitas brother, We are all sorry Andrew but Thailand doesn’t care what you think.
This is not true A.M M. has a big following among Thai people. They tell me they like the way he cuts through the b. s. and exposes the truth. Others do not like what he says but they do care.That is why they go to such great lengths to block his web sites and to threaten anyone who ‘likes’ his comments with jail time.
Censorship and repression are very much part of the dictator toolbox.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Your use of inflaming language in your rant does not make your points any valid. Already the claim that the former government came to power (i reluctantly use this term as any elected government in Thailand is not exactly what can be called “in power”) is simply wrong. The 2011 elections were observed by ANFREL their findings to not support your or Democrat Party/PDRC propaganda. Furthermore i would suggest to read Chris Baker’s Bangkok Post article titled “Vote-buying claims nothing but dangerous nonsense”.
Furthermore, your claim that the Red Shirts are “socialists” is simply ridiculous. For example, TRT/PPP/PT closest partner in Germany is not the German Social Democrat Party (SPD), or the Socialist Party (Die Linke), but the conservative parties CSU and CDU.
Previously the partner of the Democrat Party has been the German Liberal Party (as both are in the Liberal International), but now the relationship between the Liberal International and Thailand’s Democrat Party is rather icy since the antics of the PDRC.
And before you start – i live in Thailand, in a normal mixed lower class/middle class neighborhood, and presume that i am therefore not exactly out of touch of what takes place here on the streets in Thailand.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
I just added my dislike to get you to 100. You seem to have a weird fixation on this like/dislike thing which is rather a trivial feature of the blog. I dislike your posts because essentially they say nothing except that you’re being persecuted and prevented from speaking. However, I believe there’s no prohibition on you continuing to post whatever you like. Perhaps one day, you may come up with some interesting ideas. I never normally tick like or dislike anything but, I promise that when you say something interesting, I’ll give it a tick. Hope that makes you happy.
You are of course quite free to like or dislike my post. It won’t matter to me very much.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
By the blatant misanalyzes of ‘Yellow’ as social democrat and ‘Red’ as elite and money you have catapulted yourself out of the discussion.
Yellow is an alliance of former communists, anarchists, conservative middle classes, traditional elites, extreme nationalists, militarists and southern gangster politicians.
Red is an alliance of new money elites, emerging middle classes (both rural and urban), disadvantaged sectors of Thai society, former communists and other progressives.
None of both are “social democrats”. Red is somewhat social liberal in its vision for Thai society, and Yellow has never really been able to present a coherent vision for the future of Thailand, and is more unified in their rejection of Thaksin and the Red Shirts.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Forgive plan B. He shoots his mouth off without pausing for a breath, hence a rambling and incoherent missive most of the time. An incorrigible nationalist Strongman fan to boot. All the “useless careless west” needs to do is engage with (appease the right word?) such a strong ruler so it can “help the citizenry”.
There’s no shortage of junta apologists either among the academics or among the commenters.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Birds of a feather as you can see here.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
The essay by John Blaxland, seemed a good synopsis to me, I congratulate him, and I agree in general but of course like some writers here, he does not live in Thailand .
He appears to think Westerners are fundamentally opposed to the military regime, but that is not the case with the people I come into contact with, and even villagers in Isaan.
It is worth noting that almost entire conversation here seems to be between Westerners .
As well people like Andrew McGregor can have no idea what is going on in the streets of Thailand . He is out of touch with what is, and also he does not live here, and is not welcome. His torso and brain are constricted by the red shirt he hysterically lives by.
Democracy .. well It appears to elude some , that democracy is not finalized when the votes are in, having been the result of election bribes, and that Government by proxy to a criminal in exile for his own benefit is in fact democracy. Democracy is a delicate flower made coarse by Thailand’s corruption and some here, and a proxy idiot prime Minister carrying suitcases of bonds to her criminal brother in Dubai is not democracy.
It is fraud. Soon enough Yingluck will be indicted on negligence at the highest level , and she will leave for overseas, and no return. For commenters here to say that Yingluck was the face of democracy here n Thailand is just so absurd as to be clinically out of reality.
It stripped wealth out of Thailand to about 800,billion baht, on a criminally stupid rice scheme and maybe another similar amount to the Thaksin and cronies. Yes that’s democracy for us, and that democracy is gone.
The Yingluck Shinawatra Government was utterly and pathetically stupid, and disgraceful to Thailand, by any standards, and it is gone, and kit will never be back.
Neither will be the redshirt socialism that people who in far away lands dream of..It was hosed. It stripped wealth out and had some of the most corrupt people imaginable on the take.
All the red shirt drivel on sites like this does not make anything true. This regime is welcomed by many Thais. I know that in my Wife’s village in Maha Sarakham, many people welcome the development, and feel good that they can say so. In their last vote they were stood over by village elders who encouraged by various means them to vote red,
Thailand and China
The relationship is closer than necessary, and that is because the idiot Kenyan and his ambassador screamed at the Military takeover.
This is ‘extremely dangerous’ because China want to build road, and rail and sea corridors throughout Asia and further to advance their own Nation.
Thailand would have to hock itself into debt if China provides rail links to Singapore and it will only serve China. Thai people in the North can not afford high speed rail links, for China to advance through Laos toard Vietnam and Burma and India .
Australia and the South seas.
Australia is likely to take more notice of John Blaxland than the hysterical Andrew McGregor. Australia and New Zealand are pursuing free trade links with Thailand , and we know how to do it, without the Thaksin people. I generally send reports back to our people that the longer Prayut progresses Thailand the better for all of us. Trade is fundamentally important to this new Government .
There is more much more, but reader scan be assured that governments Western have more worries on their heads than whether John Blaxland’s summary is correct. I think its reasonable, although he is not on the ground .I am . People like Andrew McGregor are not and never will be.
Sincerely
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Andrew McGregor, sacked by Reuters for his arrogant know all attitude, lambasts us all with hi superior knowledge not. We are all sorry Andrew but Thailand doesn’t care what you think
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
“Socialist Democratic (Yellow)” ?? You have lost me completely.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Darren – The only way a legislative body can fully reflect the views of the electorate is that it is elected. A fully elected Senate is the only way to achieve this. No democracy is perfect. As Sceptic points out below:
We all know that such procedural democracies like UK are not only far from perfect but are subject to continual challenges, both external and internal. Nonetheless they still work. Maybe you would say they “just work”! I suggest to you that the recent Scottish independence referendum was a good example of effective procedural democracy in action.
In addition, in the UK, there are political disagreements between the various political parties on the exact nature of the reform and it they have not moved to a fully elected (or 80% elected chamber). As Steve has also noted the lower house of parliament is Supreme by virtue of the Parliament Acts. If this was the not the case and the House of Lords actually had real power to defeat legislation or remove an elected government, BP doesn’t doubt, the various political parties would have found agreement on reform of the House of Lords. Democracies have different priorities. There is nothing wrong with that.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
In the zeal to condemn any kind of coup, a lot of dear commentators here let personal conviction of what Thailand should and could be to what Thailand is going to be.
Let just agree to disagree that this author has taken the poetic license a tad too far.
Explaining the coup and the supporters do not an apologist made. Behind every Asian country is a hopefully here none too self serving Strong Man.
In the past there has always been the revered monarch to break the stalemate between, the elected and the others. This round of stalemate see the elitists (The money) vs the Socialist Democratic (Yellow even though not very clear cut) supported by the mostly oppressed and wronged. The military saw no resolution with the south becoming more unstable.
IT is a precarious time with the monarch ailing and no one respectable enough to bridge any bickering. Decisions need to be made in a military mind. At this time with promise of return to civilian rule let us hope by not mocking the intents of the Generals.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
The argument that Thailand is unlike any other country is an often cited straw man. Thailand is not the only country on earth that has a monarchy. Many European countries in the past went through conflicts of somewhat similar social and political transformation. The resulting turmoil was contained in some countries, and in others not. Which way Thailand will go is still open. But one thing that has been made clear in the past ten years is that a majority of the population wants a democratic system, and that the demands of the population of participation are an increasing factor in the determination of Thailand’s future and not just the machinations of the elites you cited.
If Blaxland has a conservative view on Thailand, he is entitled to it. But when he supports that view with distorted facts, then i am perfectly entitled to point this out and correct them.