To understand better of why Prabowo is now getting closer Joko Widodo (survey base), you should ask the supporters of the Prabowo..
To.my understanding and reviewing, many of the supporters select Prabowo because: 1) they were not happy when Megawati (PDI-P) ruled, many Indonesian assets (satelite and islands) gone to foreigners 2) majority of moslem do not want Islam to be divided to many factions (syiah, ahmadiyah, liberal) where it is against their religion believe 3) majority of moslem also believe that PDI-P party will harm the current state of Islam by re introduction of PKI (communism) 4) they also think that Joko Widodo is hypocrite because he breachs his own oath to God to be Governor of Jakarta for 5 years, and many others promises and statements are different than the actual facts (as people found out later in the news) 5) people now begin to think that what Joko Widodo did (blusukan, etc) are merely for his publicities (image boosting) puspose. Not genuine is also against the teaching of Islam (his religion)
Some of you may dislike this comment, but you could check it yourself..
Since when that prabowo is an anti corruption man? What did he do when he was in power, so called high rank public/military officer back in 1995-1998? Has he ever publicly opposed to his father in law whose regime was corrupt? I grew up in the new order regime and never saw him stood up against the corruption when he had a chance as a military general, it seems that he had also been enjoying the status quo and crafted his military career. Only the students who stood up agains the corrupt regime through the reformation movement in 1998. Prabowo? He’s done nothing until today talking about corruption for the sake of his presidential candidacy.
In regards to his opinion about the corrupt regional leaders who make less money than what they spent for their election campaign, I guess he’s trying to spin the wheel back to the old time when the leaders were selected by the elites only, what he called through a consensus. If his number is correct, 30% of the regional leaders were not the majority, in fact the majority is the 70% of them who have done a good job, stayed away from the corrupt practice, and not having a legal problem. Instead of promoting more good leaders, by returning to old practice, he was trying to negate this 70% of the good leaders. Does he think the old practice would create more accountable district leaders? I doubt it looking at the regional leaders during new order regime. What a shame. With this direct election, the country has been constantly creating good and more out of the box leaders including jokowi, Ridwan Kamil in Bandung, Risma in Surabaya, the one in Banyuwangi, Bantaeng, and many more. Is the country willing to lose these potential people by going back to consensus practice? Of course not when the consensus will only be among the elites of political parties and most probably only their kids or close family members who will have a chance to be in the elite and potentially be the selected district leaders. Do you think the good leaders I mentioned above has spent a lot of money for their elections? You can check yourself or ask them directly. For sure jokowi did not spend much for his second election in solo, but he paid with his performance in his first period. I absolutely agree with the previous article questioning prabowo’s commitment on democracy. His idea of consensus democracy is just trying to keep the country’s wealth within their own people. And this is not much different from the new order regime.
If I understand well, the reform mentioned by Prabowo at the Taman Ismail Marzuki cultural complex concerns the local elections: the elections of the majors (bupati). The problem is not only the “expensive democracy”: the problem is that the decentralisation comes with difficulties for different administrative levels to synergy with each others, in terms of development planning and strategies. A governor cannot even call a meeting with a bupati. Prabowo in stressing out that the provincial elections are not under discussion and that the problem is to create more “consensus” among provinces and local administrations. The aim is ketegasan, make the system working, give the possibility to make executive plans for the provinces: practical things like collecting garbage, building streets, stop deforestation … Does it sound antidemocratic? For sure it’s important to understand what it means “consensus”. The risk can be manipulation and patronage. But I believe that it has nothing to do with an authoritarian approach. Definitively the approach is rational, based on true conditions in many regions.
Hi Bart, I find the word ketegasan very interesting: it means discipline, strictness. In a family context is a synonym of good education, in general it means the ability to make a system working properly without compromises. Probably this is what Indonesian people are expecting from politics today, but I don’t think it has anything to do a New Order nostalgia. In any case your approach is intellectually very honest and free: you try to go back to the roots of the problems without prejudices. Please don’t read my comments, because on the contrary I’m very politically oriented 🙂
I am not pro-Prabowo but I agree to his response about our expensive democracy.
This is one of the main reason that our elites grab people’s money for their own gain, to pay back the money they have spent or to pay back the money they borrow from mafias. There is needs to change the rules or system to prevent this. In our election, the richest will likely be the winner. Even Jokowi is quite rich you know.
Furthermore,for you who argue that he will go back to undemocratic ways, I think he will not dare to do it..
Jai yen yen, na. Your comments are bizarre, to say the least and, if you go back and read your post, you’re guilty of quite a diatribe and rant yourself. Speaking for myself, (and indirectly answering your questions) I don’t hate the monarchy (and I think Thaksin is very corrupt) but I don’t like the tyranny of the minority that is Thailand. The issue for many foreigners (but apparently not you) is FAIRNESS or EQUALITY. Please understand that as you read the posts here. Your obsession with the monarchy and the desire to put everyone that doesn’t like your minority view as anti-monarchy is simplistic/uneducated at best.
Please take a moment and think, for a few minutes, about fairness and equality. One side, for the past decade, has repeatedly won election after election only to see their vote nullified by the army or the courts (the tyranny of the minority). The partisan behavior of important people, whether it’s through the funeral they attend or their Facebook page, makes it quite clear which side the the poo-yai in Thailand are on (or you can try reading Thai wikileaks if you aren’t blocked). It’s why one side can take over the airports in Hat Yai, Phuket, Krabi, Don Muang, and Suvarnumabumi as well as the gov’t house and nothing happens to anyone but the other side burns some tires and gets sent to jail for several years. Or someone wears a shirt (or eats a sandwich or reads a book like 1984 or holds up 3 fingers or clicks like on Facebook and so on)and suffers enormously.
If you have the slightest bit of intellectual honesty then you ought to see how extremely UNFAIR that is. If you can’t please help me to understand the Thai view as to why that is FAIR. That “tyrannical majority” is the side that gets the stick over and over. The minority doesn’t need your defense (unless that part of your job patrolling websites); it’s the majority that is threatened. That’s because, to paraphrase 1984 some Thais are more equal than others.
Personally, I’ve come to this website because , present company excluded, I can get better information on Thailand than I could reading an article written by someone who hasn’t been there.
Thailand’s military is now so divided it’s extremely unlikely Prayuth will be able to stave off another coup, 18 months, or less, from now. Prayuth may engineer what seems his ambition to become a latter-day Sarit-style PM, but he’s more likely to go the way of extreme reactionary PM Thanon – i.e. forced out by more liberal Chulachomklao colonels.
Thanks BP. I have to admit that your post back in 2007 was my main source of information, though I was too lazy to couldn’t find it again so wrote from what I remembered. Still, the gist was right.
I also noted your observation that if, as HRW stated there were some 70,000 arrests, this surely provides evidence to support the view that there never was a de facto shoot-to-kill policy.
Lihat di bagian bawah berita “peneliti politik Indonesia yang berbasis di Australian National University,” Apa Australia? Australia takut Prabowo naik kali.
Kenyataan yang terjadi dilapangan bahwa pemilihan kepala daerah secara langsung memang membutuhkan biaya yang sangat besar untuk memenangkannya. Itu pokok permasalahannya. Hal inilah yang harus dikaji ulang tatalaksananya.
Katakan sama si peneliti dari autralia itu. Urus saja negara mu. Ini negara kami. Kami tidak usil dengan negara anda. jadi jangan usil dengan negara kami.
“Walaupun kami belum mendapatkan akses terhadap transkrip lengkap dari pidato tersebut, tetapi laporan yang nampak dari Kompas Online”.
—
OH… belum punya trankipnya, OH tetapi nampak ya ? OH iyah sangat faktual. Makasih infonya 🙂
I am still not sure if I share the concern that a Prabowo victory necessarily signifies a shift towards authoritarianism. Nor do I think that he would be stupid enough to abuse human rights the way he did when he was still a soldier (though he seems to think that he’s still a soldier, a somewhat worrying mentality) However, there are many more disconcerting issues about a Prabowo presidency. I for one am worried about the potential backlashes of the religion-based, somewhat divisive undertone of his campaign. His coalition of the Holies PPP PKS PKB PAN all carry some varying degrees of hostility towards religious minorities, have records of violating human rights norms or being too chummy with highly questionable groups like FPI (PAN less so).
The fact that the majority of the coalition partners are either sympathetic towards or support a more top-down model of managing religions in society is also somewhat troubling. Yes, Gerindra has ostensibly removed “purifying religion” from its manifesto. But looking at Prabowo’s coalition buddies and their shiny records, I am inclined to believe that a culture of pluralism and tolerance has a better chance of blossoming under Jokowi-JK.
[…] soortgelijk verhaal verkondigde hij afgelopen zaterdag bij een rally in Jakarta. Na een eventuele overwinning wil Prabowo terug naar een systeem van patronage, een […]
ribet amat si prabowo ngelesnya, maksud dia tuh pemilihan presiden secara langsung tetap diadakan, tapi hasil pemilihannya sudah diatur oleh prabowo dan antek2nya.. begitu kira2..
I think it’ s better for u to get a full transcript of the Speech coz if you made an opinion base on other journalist especially Kompas it’ s will be biased cause we know that It’s not objective anymore. Thanks.
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Prabowo Subianto: vote for me, but just the once
To understand better of why Prabowo is now getting closer Joko Widodo (survey base), you should ask the supporters of the Prabowo..
To.my understanding and reviewing, many of the supporters select Prabowo because: 1) they were not happy when Megawati (PDI-P) ruled, many Indonesian assets (satelite and islands) gone to foreigners 2) majority of moslem do not want Islam to be divided to many factions (syiah, ahmadiyah, liberal) where it is against their religion believe 3) majority of moslem also believe that PDI-P party will harm the current state of Islam by re introduction of PKI (communism) 4) they also think that Joko Widodo is hypocrite because he breachs his own oath to God to be Governor of Jakarta for 5 years, and many others promises and statements are different than the actual facts (as people found out later in the news) 5) people now begin to think that what Joko Widodo did (blusukan, etc) are merely for his publicities (image boosting) puspose. Not genuine is also against the teaching of Islam (his religion)
Some of you may dislike this comment, but you could check it yourself..
Anti-democratic? Prabowo’s response
Since when that prabowo is an anti corruption man? What did he do when he was in power, so called high rank public/military officer back in 1995-1998? Has he ever publicly opposed to his father in law whose regime was corrupt? I grew up in the new order regime and never saw him stood up against the corruption when he had a chance as a military general, it seems that he had also been enjoying the status quo and crafted his military career. Only the students who stood up agains the corrupt regime through the reformation movement in 1998. Prabowo? He’s done nothing until today talking about corruption for the sake of his presidential candidacy.
In regards to his opinion about the corrupt regional leaders who make less money than what they spent for their election campaign, I guess he’s trying to spin the wheel back to the old time when the leaders were selected by the elites only, what he called through a consensus. If his number is correct, 30% of the regional leaders were not the majority, in fact the majority is the 70% of them who have done a good job, stayed away from the corrupt practice, and not having a legal problem. Instead of promoting more good leaders, by returning to old practice, he was trying to negate this 70% of the good leaders. Does he think the old practice would create more accountable district leaders? I doubt it looking at the regional leaders during new order regime. What a shame. With this direct election, the country has been constantly creating good and more out of the box leaders including jokowi, Ridwan Kamil in Bandung, Risma in Surabaya, the one in Banyuwangi, Bantaeng, and many more. Is the country willing to lose these potential people by going back to consensus practice? Of course not when the consensus will only be among the elites of political parties and most probably only their kids or close family members who will have a chance to be in the elite and potentially be the selected district leaders. Do you think the good leaders I mentioned above has spent a lot of money for their elections? You can check yourself or ask them directly. For sure jokowi did not spend much for his second election in solo, but he paid with his performance in his first period. I absolutely agree with the previous article questioning prabowo’s commitment on democracy. His idea of consensus democracy is just trying to keep the country’s wealth within their own people. And this is not much different from the new order regime.
Anti-democratic? Prabowo’s response
If I understand well, the reform mentioned by Prabowo at the Taman Ismail Marzuki cultural complex concerns the local elections: the elections of the majors (bupati). The problem is not only the “expensive democracy”: the problem is that the decentralisation comes with difficulties for different administrative levels to synergy with each others, in terms of development planning and strategies. A governor cannot even call a meeting with a bupati. Prabowo in stressing out that the provincial elections are not under discussion and that the problem is to create more “consensus” among provinces and local administrations. The aim is ketegasan, make the system working, give the possibility to make executive plans for the provinces: practical things like collecting garbage, building streets, stop deforestation … Does it sound antidemocratic? For sure it’s important to understand what it means “consensus”. The risk can be manipulation and patronage. But I believe that it has nothing to do with an authoritarian approach. Definitively the approach is rational, based on true conditions in many regions.
Prabowo Subianto: vote for me, but just the once
Hi Bart, I find the word ketegasan very interesting: it means discipline, strictness. In a family context is a synonym of good education, in general it means the ability to make a system working properly without compromises. Probably this is what Indonesian people are expecting from politics today, but I don’t think it has anything to do a New Order nostalgia. In any case your approach is intellectually very honest and free: you try to go back to the roots of the problems without prejudices. Please don’t read my comments, because on the contrary I’m very politically oriented 🙂
Anti-democratic? Prabowo’s response
I am not pro-Prabowo but I agree to his response about our expensive democracy.
This is one of the main reason that our elites grab people’s money for their own gain, to pay back the money they have spent or to pay back the money they borrow from mafias. There is needs to change the rules or system to prevent this. In our election, the richest will likely be the winner. Even Jokowi is quite rich you know.
Furthermore,for you who argue that he will go back to undemocratic ways, I think he will not dare to do it..
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
Jai yen yen, na. Your comments are bizarre, to say the least and, if you go back and read your post, you’re guilty of quite a diatribe and rant yourself. Speaking for myself, (and indirectly answering your questions) I don’t hate the monarchy (and I think Thaksin is very corrupt) but I don’t like the tyranny of the minority that is Thailand. The issue for many foreigners (but apparently not you) is FAIRNESS or EQUALITY. Please understand that as you read the posts here. Your obsession with the monarchy and the desire to put everyone that doesn’t like your minority view as anti-monarchy is simplistic/uneducated at best.
Please take a moment and think, for a few minutes, about fairness and equality. One side, for the past decade, has repeatedly won election after election only to see their vote nullified by the army or the courts (the tyranny of the minority). The partisan behavior of important people, whether it’s through the funeral they attend or their Facebook page, makes it quite clear which side the the poo-yai in Thailand are on (or you can try reading Thai wikileaks if you aren’t blocked). It’s why one side can take over the airports in Hat Yai, Phuket, Krabi, Don Muang, and Suvarnumabumi as well as the gov’t house and nothing happens to anyone but the other side burns some tires and gets sent to jail for several years. Or someone wears a shirt (or eats a sandwich or reads a book like 1984 or holds up 3 fingers or clicks like on Facebook and so on)and suffers enormously.
If you have the slightest bit of intellectual honesty then you ought to see how extremely UNFAIR that is. If you can’t please help me to understand the Thai view as to why that is FAIR. That “tyrannical majority” is the side that gets the stick over and over. The minority doesn’t need your defense (unless that part of your job patrolling websites); it’s the majority that is threatened. That’s because, to paraphrase 1984 some Thais are more equal than others.
Personally, I’ve come to this website because , present company excluded, I can get better information on Thailand than I could reading an article written by someone who hasn’t been there.
Thailand’s coup: same same but different?
Thailand’s military is now so divided it’s extremely unlikely Prayuth will be able to stave off another coup, 18 months, or less, from now. Prayuth may engineer what seems his ambition to become a latter-day Sarit-style PM, but he’s more likely to go the way of extreme reactionary PM Thanon – i.e. forced out by more liberal Chulachomklao colonels.
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
Thanks BP. I have to admit that your post back in 2007 was my main source of information, though I
was too lazy tocouldn’t find it again so wrote from what I remembered. Still, the gist was right.I also noted your observation that if, as HRW stated there were some 70,000 arrests, this surely provides evidence to support the view that there never was a de facto shoot-to-kill policy.
Prabowo Subianto: pilihlah aku, tetapi sekali saja
Lihat di bagian bawah berita “peneliti politik Indonesia yang berbasis di Australian National University,” Apa Australia? Australia takut Prabowo naik kali.
Prabowo Subianto: pilihlah aku, tetapi sekali saja
Kenyataan yang terjadi dilapangan bahwa pemilihan kepala daerah secara langsung memang membutuhkan biaya yang sangat besar untuk memenangkannya. Itu pokok permasalahannya. Hal inilah yang harus dikaji ulang tatalaksananya.
Katakan sama si peneliti dari autralia itu. Urus saja negara mu. Ini negara kami. Kami tidak usil dengan negara anda. jadi jangan usil dengan negara kami.
Prabowo Subianto: vote for me, but just the once
You don’t know anything. You lie in your wrote.
And lie is not good for humanity.
Prabowo and his anti-Chinese past?
Lol this is not true. Prabowo doesnt hate the chinese. The current governor of Jakarta is chinese who is a member of Prabowo’s Gerindra party
Prabowo Subianto: pilihlah aku, tetapi sekali saja
“Walaupun kami belum mendapatkan akses terhadap transkrip lengkap dari pidato tersebut, tetapi laporan yang nampak dari Kompas Online”.
—
OH… belum punya trankipnya, OH tetapi nampak ya ? OH iyah sangat faktual. Makasih infonya 🙂
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
I should correct that. Uniquely you did credit Marinov and Goemans
Anti-democratic? Prabowo’s response
I am still not sure if I share the concern that a Prabowo victory necessarily signifies a shift towards authoritarianism. Nor do I think that he would be stupid enough to abuse human rights the way he did when he was still a soldier (though he seems to think that he’s still a soldier, a somewhat worrying mentality) However, there are many more disconcerting issues about a Prabowo presidency. I for one am worried about the potential backlashes of the religion-based, somewhat divisive undertone of his campaign. His coalition of the Holies PPP PKS PKB PAN all carry some varying degrees of hostility towards religious minorities, have records of violating human rights norms or being too chummy with highly questionable groups like FPI (PAN less so).
The fact that the majority of the coalition partners are either sympathetic towards or support a more top-down model of managing religions in society is also somewhat troubling. Yes, Gerindra has ostensibly removed “purifying religion” from its manifesto. But looking at Prabowo’s coalition buddies and their shiny records, I am inclined to believe that a culture of pluralism and tolerance has a better chance of blossoming under Jokowi-JK.
Prabowo Subianto: vote for me, but just the once
[…] soortgelijk verhaal verkondigde hij afgelopen zaterdag bij een rally in Jakarta. Na een eventuele overwinning wil Prabowo terug naar een systeem van patronage, een […]
Prabowo Subianto: pilihlah aku, tetapi sekali saja
Pemilu langsung menyalahi sila ini? Kerakyatan yg dipimpin oleh hikmat kebijaksanaan dalam permusyawaratan perwakilan.
Prabowo Subianto: pilihlah aku, tetapi sekali saja
transkrip suaranya di sini katanya.
https://soundcloud.com/unimelb/prabowo-subianto-at-the-taman-ismail-marzuki-cultural-centre
Prabowo Subianto: pilihlah aku, tetapi sekali saja
ribet amat si prabowo ngelesnya, maksud dia tuh pemilihan presiden secara langsung tetap diadakan, tapi hasil pemilihannya sudah diatur oleh prabowo dan antek2nya.. begitu kira2..
Prabowo Subianto: vote for me, but just the once
I think it’ s better for u to get a full transcript of the Speech coz if you made an opinion base on other journalist especially Kompas it’ s will be biased cause we know that It’s not objective anymore. Thanks.