Aren’t you an “NMite” too? This isn’t an exclusive club. As far as I can see anyone can join provided they stick to a few reasonable and commonplace rules. Yes, it appears you are in a minority here on most discussion about Thailand (as I often find myself on other boards – you may well remember at least one) but there is nothing wrong with that. Most of us here like to hear opposing views – if only to have the pleasure of knocking them about! This would be a much less entertaining place to come to without you, Vichai N, Ghost and any number of others. But provided comment remains ad rem rather than ad hominem which I believe it generally does and which Andrew and Nick ensure, I think it very sad that you should portray yourself as some kind of outsider simply because many here argue against what you have to say.
Yes, I think this piece makes some important points.
I also think that “observerfromafarwithin” makes some good points.
As for “newsound”, I disagree that China would “likely become a defacto Chinese territory” without NGOs and donors being in Laos. NGOs and donors can and do indeed cause lots of problems. Also, it is crucial to understand that Viet Nam has long had much more influence on the politics of Laos than China. Sure, China’s economic influence has increased a great deal, and that does translate into some political influence, but I think it would be naive to think that Viet Nam is not still the most influential country in Laos.
Demokrasi datang dari negara yang sama dengan pencipta HAM. Berikut sang negara pencipta pun kerap melanggar HAM. Maka dua hal tersebut adalah dualisme yang dibuat untuk membenarkan hal2 yg salah atau sebaliknya. Tidak berdemokrasi masih lebih baik, daripada kita di nina bobokan dengan demokrasi tapi sesungguhnya kita dijajah oleh konglomerasi tirai bambu. Mengapa kita menjadi anti militer? Toh memang sesungguhnya negeri kita belum merdeka?!
Menurut pandangan saya.para elite politik atau tokoh nasional di indonesia belum bisa dikatakan tokoh politik.yang pantas baginya pecundang.masak sudah ngusung calon presiden ngomongnya seperti politisi kampungan yang baru masuk partai.
Karena bicaranya selalu menghujat, mengungkit dan mempersalahkan orang sebelum diperiksa dan memuji keberhasilan orang yang belum bekerja.
Masak orang kampung yang totok itu dikatakan berhasil.sedangkan tali sungai di DKI saja belum tuntas dikerjakannya,mana mungkin negara sebesar ini akan dia urus. Apakah negara kita ini sama dengan sebuah kota kecil atau dengan sebuah kabupaten.yang benar aja bro..pilihlah yang pantas dan tegas serta yang jujur punya perinsip perinsip dasar negarawan.jangan percayai omongan anak anak baru gede itu.okay bro.thank.
[…] demokrasi Indonesia. Selama limabelas tahun terakhir, Indonesia telah menorehkan kisah sukses demokrasi di Asia Tenggara. Berbeda dengan Thailand yang kembali dalam tradisi lama, di dalam cengkeraman […]
sebagaimana dinyatakan huntington bahwa bukan masalah apa dan bagaimana bentuk negara yang dipilih kemudian menjamin suatu negara bisa maju dan sejahtera, tetapi bagaimana kekuasaan bisa berdaulat dan sistem pemerintahan bisa bekerja secara efektif…dapat dimengerti apa yg dikhawatirkan asing apabila prabowo jadi presiden karena semangat nasuonalismenya yang diusung, karena itu artinya banyak perusahaan dan kepentingan asing yg hegemoninya bisa terancam…silahkan otoriter asal mampu mrnsejahterakan dan memelihara martabat daripada menjunjung demokrasi tapi dikangkangi demagogie
Saya setuju dengan pendapat anda, bahwa mungkin yang orang sebut bahwa prabowo itu abcde sampe z bisa saja salah, dan nyatanya terlihat (atau sengaja diperlihatkan) di media. Jujur kadang saya ragu mau pilih yg mana karena keduanya punya kelebihan dan kekurangan masing-masing. Tapi kalau saya mau objektif, yg patut saya ragukan di antara kedua calon ini adalah kinerja dari pak Prabowo. Kenapa? Karena beliau tidak punya track record yang jelas tentang kontribusinya untuk negara di era reformasi ini. Beberapa orang mungkin menunjuk kinerja beliau saat era orde baru, tapi menurut saya itu tidak cukup representatif, karena geliat politik dan kondisi pemerintahan di masa itu sama sekali berbeda dg masa sekarang. Pada era orde baru semua seperti “mendewakan” Pak Soeharto dan tentu tidak ada yg berani menyangsikan beliau, termasuk penilaian beliau terhadap Pak Prabowo.
Sekali lagi, apa yg dibicarakan orang tentang kejelekan Pak Prabowo maupun Pak Jokowi, keduanya bisa saja sama-sama salah. Tapi saya perlu sesuatu yang sudah saya lihat hasil nyatanya, bukan sekedar yang terlihat tapi juga meyakinkan. Kita ini pilih presiden, bukan memilih kucing dalam karung.
If 90% are happy, then they’re not the the people I have access to, which is possible. They are engaging in something called affirmartion, hoping it will come to pass. The Bangkok Post is also engaging in some very shonky interpretation of survey results.
Simply put, they cannot afford to fail, so a few lies are a small enough sin.
Personally I think the consequences for the coup-makers will be so awful that this will be the last coup the Thai military embarks on. After this is finished they won’t have the capability, or the desire.Lots of games being played.
Indeed, and yet, when I opined last year that the Thai economy was going to be in decline, someone called me ‘economically illiterate’. And yet, The decline I predicted is happening right now.
Perhaps I knew something you didn’t. You never can tellin this kind of forum can you?
You probably also don’t know that both Suthep and Prayuth have health issues that will likely kill them in the next 12 months.
Yes, that is a good point. That data was based on the 2009 election, andI think it is quite different this time around. I’d be really interested to look at the data on couple’s relative preferences on JKW vs PS, and how proxies such as education may play a role in explaining how much does politics, in this round of pilpres, matter in their day to day interaction. Terima kasih.
The coup was not in support of democracy and it is highly unlikely the reforms will allow a real democracy to flourish in the near future. As the majority of voter remain in the North and Northeast and will not support the upcoming appointed government who will be tasked to dismantle all political power from these regions of the country.
The anti-Thaksin/yellow-shirt supporters are not willing to share power with the poorer citizens and regions of the country. If those controlling the guns will not accept the results of elections, elections have no meaning.
The Thai military is notorious for corruption, and no elected government has been able to make a dent into the corrupt practices. But since dissent is now banned in the Thai media, we will not be hearing much about it, but the idea that a dictatorship by a military organization with a long history of corruption without media oversight or political opposition will lead to less corruption seems like wishful but not very logical thinking.
The hands in the cookie jar will surely change, even if the number of hands stays the same or increases.
But wasn’t the changing of who gets to dip into the cookiw jar really the purpose of the coup?
Akui saja bahwa Indonesia merupakan negara berkembang yang belum seluruh rakyatnya mengerti bagaimana berdemokarasi (baca: masih terlalu banyak pejabat egois yang memanfaatkan ketidakmengertian rakyatnya dan mengatasnamakan demokrasi untuk mengutamakan kepentingan pribadinya)
Jadi untuk menjadikan negara berkembang menjadi negara yg maju, perlu dibangun oleh pemerintahan yang otoriter namun benar.
Saya bukan politikus dan tidak menegrti apa itu politik, saya hanya seorang eengineer yang jengah dengan teori kinspirasi politik busuk seperti ini.
The military leaders, even if well intentioned (which I have my doubts about), do not have the experience, education or perspective to run a nation’s economy successfully.
Without any checks and balances and no media oversight, things are not likely to move forward, ig we take history as our guide.
Military rule hasn’t worked out very well for our neighbors to the west (Burma), or our neighbors to the East (Cambodia), so while I realize democracy has its problems, the evidence does not seem to support an authoritarian regime will outperform an elected one.
Jokowi itu blon pantas jd president..Dan jokowi tdk akan terpilih jd presiden..selesaikan duly Jakarta macet, banjir, org miskin dibiarin tidur dikolong jambatan, sekrng penduduk jkerta kecewa atas kepemimpinan jokowi emng gila jabatan ya jokowi gimn ngurus Indonesia Jakarta aj blown beres bung..
Yes NotDisappointed, I’m also a firm believer that Thaksin through his covert global marketing and media mind control network has succeeded in infiltrating and brainwashing nearly all of the governments, respected academics, analysts, researchers and general public of the USA, Canada, EU, Australia/NZ and most other parts of the free world where our enlightened military dictatorship is widely condemned.
If all those hundreds of millions of thoroughly Thaksin brainwashed foreigners would only wake up and realize that only enlightened ‘good people’ like our bloody handed hero kamnan Suthep and our possey of well armed military dictators (I mean hero’s) should have the right to participate politically in Thailand’s future.
I say forget what the majority of Thais want, they’ve all been bought and paid for by Thaksin just like the hundreds of millions foreigners who have been thoroughly brainwashed to be repulsed by our beautiful dictatorship when they should all be inspired just like me.
We need to ignore or better yet lock up anyone who vocally rejects the actions of our hero dictators and get on with the important job of rejigging the electoral system so we can never lose to someone outside of the network monarchy again. Long live minority rule and our hero dictators.
Demokrasi bukan untuk semua Negara. Negara-Negara Asia yang maju rata-rata satu partai. Jepang (tumbuh dengan LDP), Singapore (PAP), Cina (Partai Komunis), Korea stabil setelah pemerintah authorian militer yang memajukan sipil-nya. Di timur tengah, Negara yang paling gak stabil ialah Yemen, satu2nya yang demokrasi. Afrika Utara, mencoba demokrasi dan akhirnya jadi bencana (Mesir, Libya, dan Syria).
Jangan bandingkan demokrasi dengan US, atau Eropa yang jauh sudah ratusan tahun membangun society-nya untuk demokrasi
Indonesia perlu proses untuk mencapai demokrasi penuh. Yang ada sekarang, demokrasi yang korupsi.
Seandainya penulis membandingkan arti demokrasi dengan Negara-Negara di atas, baru kita bisa liat apakah demokrasi baik untuk Indonesia?
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Thorns of the Thai rose
Yes Wassy,
You can blindly obey. That is the only way to be free.
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
Aren’t you an “NMite” too? This isn’t an exclusive club. As far as I can see anyone can join provided they stick to a few reasonable and commonplace rules. Yes, it appears you are in a minority here on most discussion about Thailand (as I often find myself on other boards – you may well remember at least one) but there is nothing wrong with that. Most of us here like to hear opposing views – if only to have the pleasure of knocking them about! This would be a much less entertaining place to come to without you, Vichai N, Ghost and any number of others. But provided comment remains ad rem rather than ad hominem which I believe it generally does and which Andrew and Nick ensure, I think it very sad that you should portray yourself as some kind of outsider simply because many here argue against what you have to say.
Indonesia’s democracy is in danger
[…] Baca Juga Versi Bahasa Inggris Indonesia’s democracy is in danger […]
The decline of Lao civil society
Yes, I think this piece makes some important points.
I also think that “observerfromafarwithin” makes some good points.
As for “newsound”, I disagree that China would “likely become a defacto Chinese territory” without NGOs and donors being in Laos. NGOs and donors can and do indeed cause lots of problems. Also, it is crucial to understand that Viet Nam has long had much more influence on the politics of Laos than China. Sure, China’s economic influence has increased a great deal, and that does translate into some political influence, but I think it would be naive to think that Viet Nam is not still the most influential country in Laos.
Demokrasi Indonesia Dalam Bahaya
Demokrasi datang dari negara yang sama dengan pencipta HAM. Berikut sang negara pencipta pun kerap melanggar HAM. Maka dua hal tersebut adalah dualisme yang dibuat untuk membenarkan hal2 yg salah atau sebaliknya. Tidak berdemokrasi masih lebih baik, daripada kita di nina bobokan dengan demokrasi tapi sesungguhnya kita dijajah oleh konglomerasi tirai bambu. Mengapa kita menjadi anti militer? Toh memang sesungguhnya negeri kita belum merdeka?!
Demokrasi Indonesia Dalam Bahaya
Menurut pandangan saya.para elite politik atau tokoh nasional di indonesia belum bisa dikatakan tokoh politik.yang pantas baginya pecundang.masak sudah ngusung calon presiden ngomongnya seperti politisi kampungan yang baru masuk partai.
Karena bicaranya selalu menghujat, mengungkit dan mempersalahkan orang sebelum diperiksa dan memuji keberhasilan orang yang belum bekerja.
Masak orang kampung yang totok itu dikatakan berhasil.sedangkan tali sungai di DKI saja belum tuntas dikerjakannya,mana mungkin negara sebesar ini akan dia urus. Apakah negara kita ini sama dengan sebuah kota kecil atau dengan sebuah kabupaten.yang benar aja bro..pilihlah yang pantas dan tegas serta yang jujur punya perinsip perinsip dasar negarawan.jangan percayai omongan anak anak baru gede itu.okay bro.thank.
Demokrasi Indonesia Dalam Bahaya
[…] demokrasi Indonesia. Selama limabelas tahun terakhir, Indonesia telah menorehkan kisah sukses demokrasi di Asia Tenggara. Berbeda dengan Thailand yang kembali dalam tradisi lama, di dalam cengkeraman […]
Demokrasi Indonesia Dalam Bahaya
sebagaimana dinyatakan huntington bahwa bukan masalah apa dan bagaimana bentuk negara yang dipilih kemudian menjamin suatu negara bisa maju dan sejahtera, tetapi bagaimana kekuasaan bisa berdaulat dan sistem pemerintahan bisa bekerja secara efektif…dapat dimengerti apa yg dikhawatirkan asing apabila prabowo jadi presiden karena semangat nasuonalismenya yang diusung, karena itu artinya banyak perusahaan dan kepentingan asing yg hegemoninya bisa terancam…silahkan otoriter asal mampu mrnsejahterakan dan memelihara martabat daripada menjunjung demokrasi tapi dikangkangi demagogie
Demokrasi Indonesia Dalam Bahaya
Saya tdk melihat paparab berimbang dalam tulisan ini
Demokrasi Indonesia Dalam Bahaya
Saya setuju dengan pendapat anda, bahwa mungkin yang orang sebut bahwa prabowo itu abcde sampe z bisa saja salah, dan nyatanya terlihat (atau sengaja diperlihatkan) di media. Jujur kadang saya ragu mau pilih yg mana karena keduanya punya kelebihan dan kekurangan masing-masing. Tapi kalau saya mau objektif, yg patut saya ragukan di antara kedua calon ini adalah kinerja dari pak Prabowo. Kenapa? Karena beliau tidak punya track record yang jelas tentang kontribusinya untuk negara di era reformasi ini. Beberapa orang mungkin menunjuk kinerja beliau saat era orde baru, tapi menurut saya itu tidak cukup representatif, karena geliat politik dan kondisi pemerintahan di masa itu sama sekali berbeda dg masa sekarang. Pada era orde baru semua seperti “mendewakan” Pak Soeharto dan tentu tidak ada yg berani menyangsikan beliau, termasuk penilaian beliau terhadap Pak Prabowo.
Sekali lagi, apa yg dibicarakan orang tentang kejelekan Pak Prabowo maupun Pak Jokowi, keduanya bisa saja sama-sama salah. Tapi saya perlu sesuatu yang sudah saya lihat hasil nyatanya, bukan sekedar yang terlihat tapi juga meyakinkan. Kita ini pilih presiden, bukan memilih kucing dalam karung.
Mr. Heinecke cannot have his coup and eat it too
If 90% are happy, then they’re not the the people I have access to, which is possible. They are engaging in something called affirmartion, hoping it will come to pass. The Bangkok Post is also engaging in some very shonky interpretation of survey results.
Simply put, they cannot afford to fail, so a few lies are a small enough sin.
Personally I think the consequences for the coup-makers will be so awful that this will be the last coup the Thai military embarks on. After this is finished they won’t have the capability, or the desire.Lots of games being played.
Mr. Heinecke cannot have his coup and eat it too
Indeed, and yet, when I opined last year that the Thai economy was going to be in decline, someone called me ‘economically illiterate’. And yet, The decline I predicted is happening right now.
Perhaps I knew something you didn’t. You never can tellin this kind of forum can you?
You probably also don’t know that both Suthep and Prayuth have health issues that will likely kill them in the next 12 months.
Now there’s a thing…
Assortative mating and the election
Yes, that is a good point. That data was based on the 2009 election, andI think it is quite different this time around. I’d be really interested to look at the data on couple’s relative preferences on JKW vs PS, and how proxies such as education may play a role in explaining how much does politics, in this round of pilpres, matter in their day to day interaction. Terima kasih.
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
The coup was not in support of democracy and it is highly unlikely the reforms will allow a real democracy to flourish in the near future. As the majority of voter remain in the North and Northeast and will not support the upcoming appointed government who will be tasked to dismantle all political power from these regions of the country.
The anti-Thaksin/yellow-shirt supporters are not willing to share power with the poorer citizens and regions of the country. If those controlling the guns will not accept the results of elections, elections have no meaning.
The Thai military is notorious for corruption, and no elected government has been able to make a dent into the corrupt practices. But since dissent is now banned in the Thai media, we will not be hearing much about it, but the idea that a dictatorship by a military organization with a long history of corruption without media oversight or political opposition will lead to less corruption seems like wishful but not very logical thinking.
The hands in the cookie jar will surely change, even if the number of hands stays the same or increases.
But wasn’t the changing of who gets to dip into the cookiw jar really the purpose of the coup?
Demokrasi Indonesia Dalam Bahaya
Akui saja bahwa Indonesia merupakan negara berkembang yang belum seluruh rakyatnya mengerti bagaimana berdemokarasi (baca: masih terlalu banyak pejabat egois yang memanfaatkan ketidakmengertian rakyatnya dan mengatasnamakan demokrasi untuk mengutamakan kepentingan pribadinya)
Jadi untuk menjadikan negara berkembang menjadi negara yg maju, perlu dibangun oleh pemerintahan yang otoriter namun benar.
Saya bukan politikus dan tidak menegrti apa itu politik, saya hanya seorang eengineer yang jengah dengan teori kinspirasi politik busuk seperti ini.
Ominous signs for migrant workers in Thailand
The military leaders, even if well intentioned (which I have my doubts about), do not have the experience, education or perspective to run a nation’s economy successfully.
Without any checks and balances and no media oversight, things are not likely to move forward, ig we take history as our guide.
Military rule hasn’t worked out very well for our neighbors to the west (Burma), or our neighbors to the East (Cambodia), so while I realize democracy has its problems, the evidence does not seem to support an authoritarian regime will outperform an elected one.
Mr. Heinecke cannot have his coup and eat it too
Mr. Heinecke did not indicate why he thought this military coup would work out better than others in Thailand or other places in the world?
The world has a long history of military dictatorships, and their track records are very poor. Why would this one be different?
Demokrasi Indonesia Dalam Bahaya
Jokowi itu blon pantas jd president..Dan jokowi tdk akan terpilih jd presiden..selesaikan duly Jakarta macet, banjir, org miskin dibiarin tidur dikolong jambatan, sekrng penduduk jkerta kecewa atas kepemimpinan jokowi emng gila jabatan ya jokowi gimn ngurus Indonesia Jakarta aj blown beres bung..
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
Yes NotDisappointed, I’m also a firm believer that Thaksin through his covert global marketing and media mind control network has succeeded in infiltrating and brainwashing nearly all of the governments, respected academics, analysts, researchers and general public of the USA, Canada, EU, Australia/NZ and most other parts of the free world where our enlightened military dictatorship is widely condemned.
If all those hundreds of millions of thoroughly Thaksin brainwashed foreigners would only wake up and realize that only enlightened ‘good people’ like our bloody handed hero kamnan Suthep and our possey of well armed military dictators (I mean hero’s) should have the right to participate politically in Thailand’s future.
I say forget what the majority of Thais want, they’ve all been bought and paid for by Thaksin just like the hundreds of millions foreigners who have been thoroughly brainwashed to be repulsed by our beautiful dictatorship when they should all be inspired just like me.
We need to ignore or better yet lock up anyone who vocally rejects the actions of our hero dictators and get on with the important job of rejigging the electoral system so we can never lose to someone outside of the network monarchy again. Long live minority rule and our hero dictators.
Demokrasi Indonesia Dalam Bahaya
Demokrasi bukan untuk semua Negara. Negara-Negara Asia yang maju rata-rata satu partai. Jepang (tumbuh dengan LDP), Singapore (PAP), Cina (Partai Komunis), Korea stabil setelah pemerintah authorian militer yang memajukan sipil-nya. Di timur tengah, Negara yang paling gak stabil ialah Yemen, satu2nya yang demokrasi. Afrika Utara, mencoba demokrasi dan akhirnya jadi bencana (Mesir, Libya, dan Syria).
Jangan bandingkan demokrasi dengan US, atau Eropa yang jauh sudah ratusan tahun membangun society-nya untuk demokrasi
Indonesia perlu proses untuk mencapai demokrasi penuh. Yang ada sekarang, demokrasi yang korupsi.
Seandainya penulis membandingkan arti demokrasi dengan Negara-Negara di atas, baru kita bisa liat apakah demokrasi baik untuk Indonesia?