Paco 20.1: The 50% I am referring to do not know what is goin on and frankly most don’t really care: what they do not see they do not feel. It is only when their lives are directly affected will they start to understand and wake up to their condition. Real awareness comes from the heart not the head. This is why Thailand will never move much towards democracy as long as there is lack of conscientization… When most (75%) are finally awake and realise their situation, then the outcome we see today will be different. Don’t kid yourself that people see what you see, and even if they saw this, they would not believe. Propaganda is a powerful tool used by the royalist regime.
Question 8: General sir, does your coup network possess the integrity, honesty and and accountability to break with tradition by not writing your own automatic amnesty and get out if jail card into the new constitution ?
More politely, MYOB? 😉 No, Kelly, the world is too small for what happens in Thailand (or the Ukraine, or Egypt or anywhere else) not to be a matter of interest and even importance to others outside the country. The key is that ultimately decisions will be taken by the Thai people. That is why you have used to have elections, isn’t it?
Jimu; “More than 50% Thai people actually are not aware of their situation or that they are living under a dictatorial regime”
You can’t be serious, right? Haven’t you read what’s actually going on in the country? I mean the whole country. Do you think that people are too stupid to notice military presence even in small villages, or that if they notice it, that they don’t question their presence. Don’t you think, that millions who went to vote, don’t ask what has happened to their votes? People may be silent for now, but they are not ignorant about what is going on…
Matt, obviously I must be talking to the wrong Thai people, or those who don’t feel like the great mass of happy people. The Thais I talk to are probably only “Undermenschen”, in your eyes, and therefore stupid and not worth listening to, right? Like they are too stupid to vote as well, agreed..?┬┐?
People are so quick to judge. Especially people of different ethnicity that have no Idea about the asian culture or their way of living. I’m just trying to say before you open your mouth and judge the people and the royal family get your facts straight! Or just don’t put in your two sense at all…. In my own words STFU GTFO
While no Thai scholars are on the program, it will nevertheless be interesting to learn whether the Thai embassy in Canberra attempts to interfere with this event. I hope that the organizers will keep those of us far away from Canberra posted on any such attempts.
An apology of most sincere kind for lumping you under “academics”.
This article unlike the others is surely most fair since more than one vantage point of view is present to make your case positively on behalf of the MMW in Thailand.
The passion of my disdain for previous article, that surely serve nothing good for the unity of a poverty stricken country, got the better of myself.
Again my apology for unjustly maligning you.
Please continue your obvious passion on Myanmar migrant workers fate.
Remembering just a short while ago, personally witnessing the atrocious treatments suffered by these victims of the poverty of spirit, I salute your efforts.
AQ is an ideology, nothing to ‘repudiate’ here as no evidence; therefore there is nothing to ‘willingly tolerate’; news to me that other myanmar muslims despise the rohingya and your final comments on ‘illegal aliens …’ is simply showing us your racial hatred towards rohingya, and, most likely, others.
The FT had an article where a businessman is quoted (concerning the elite’s view of Thaksin), “ think he … mesmerizes the people…. Get rid of him and the people will become nice and subservient again.” They are simply wrong not least because their heroes and saviors are all of the past”
That question should be put to the junta, that is, do they believe that to be true.
Yes the hypocrisy is astounding. The network monarchy have screamed bloody murder over the parliamentary Tyranny of the majority and replaced it with a far more totalitarian tyranny of the minority using tanks and martial law, they quickly replaced the inadequately researched 2 trillion baht infrastructure project with a far less adequately researched 3 trillion baht infrastructure project, they were hysterical about populist policies and are now blowing the public purse on free footy, movies and concerts in a totally shameless populist crusade.
The US$100 billion or so that they are creaming as suggested above only accounts for some of the spoils, theres many other revenue streams and perks that come with seizing power.
Thaksin was a skilled swindler, but even he couldnt write his get out of jail card into the constitution again and again after plundering the public purse like his adversaries do.
Indeed, the master swindlers are back in the drivers seat again to take what they see as rightfully theirs. They are absolutely and unquestionably above the Law, in fact they are the law and the sky is the limit.
Once again we get the stories about Thaksins crimes.
I will not dispute them, but why has he not been charged? The junta of 2006, the Surayud interim government, the Abhisit ruling period… more than ample time to put together a case against him. We all know where the court system stands in this conflict.
There are two possible reasons why Thaksin has never been charged with these crimes, maybe more.
1. There is no evidence, there is no case.
2. There is evidence, but going through with a court case would implicate untouchables, including the military.
You should point fingers at the institutions that fail to do their job of indicting Thaksin, you should not point fingers at the voters who do their duty at the polling stations.
Is the 2007 constitution an option?
Here we have a constitution that the general’s buddies and mentors created, and which he proceeded to throw in the garbage a few weeks ago. Will he not look like an idiot pulling it out of the garbage again?
“Majoritarianism” is practised in all democracies. It is simply the way it works. In the UK where there is currently (although unusually) a coalition government, it is still that government that sets the political agenda and has the clout in terms of its combined parliamentary majority to put it into effect. The same is true wherever democratic government is practised. Ironically the only obvious exception to this rule is Thailand, where laws enacted by the majority elected government can be – and are – easily overturned by the judiciary without recourse to appeal. By the same token government ministers, elected by popular mandate can be bundled out of office at the whim of un-elected “independent” agencies, again without recourse to an appeal. Because of this Thailand iswas possibly the only democracy where “majoritarianism” does not necessarily prevail.
Had the government been able to police the demonstrations properly, the fatalities and injuries would at the very least have been kept to a bare minimum. The government was constrained by two factors: 1) the Constitutional Court’s decision critically restricting its ability to control the demonstrators; and 2) the position of the army itself, which meant that not only could the government not rely on military support to help control the demonstrations (and in particular ensure that the election was properly completed) but that it had always to be wary that any action it might take would only provide a pretext for the army to take over. TO bring this about was of course a prime aim of the PDRC and does at least give rise to the gruesome possibility that at least some of the fatalities and injuries were, so to speak, deliberately self inflicted by an unscrupulous single-minded PDRC leadership.
As far as the role of the military itself is concerned, it is noteworthy that, on an earlier occasion in support of a government more to its liking and that of the elite, it was prepared to use live rounds against demonstrators, resulting in over 90 fatalities.
A few questions are relevant:
–To what extent has the Rohingya leadership repudiated their Al-Qaida/Islamist connections?
–Why would Myanmar willingly tolerate an AQ support element in their country?
–How do “abuses” of the Rohingya–generally despised by other Myanmar Muslims, especially in Rakhaing State–stack up against the genocide practiced against the Mayans in Guatemala by pro-US regimes in the 80s?
–Why are illegal aliens, including criminals and terrorists, rightfully deported by the Obama regime but this right is denied to the Myanmar government?
Comments, please. George Thomas
Thailand is a boiling egg. Future is rather uncertain. So if authorities do not give travel alerts, they may be held responsible if violence erupt.
And if I most certainly agree that Thailand remains very safe for foreigners, I must also remind you that a farang has been detained for wearing a “peace please” T-shirt / farang are also submitted to ‘shut the fuck up’ lese majeste laws.
Maybe (just an hypothesis) those travel alerts are also means of diplomatic pressure or at least a signal to the junta that the coup was not welcomed by many western countries.
Finally, you talk about foreign media but I have not seen any article saying that Thailand is dangerous for tourists. Most articles I read were questionning the travel alerts. Yes there are many critical articles on the coup and new regime. But one cannot ignore the impact of the coup for human rights or forget arbitrarily detained people, just because one wants to protect the tourism industry and the nice public image of Thailand!!
Robert Dayley continues with his ‘expert’ laborious circumlocutions but it is o.k., I get it! What Robert Dayley is saying is that General Prayuth should have taken the ‘wait-for-his-retirement-option’.
At least that’s what Robert Dayley would do, were he in the General shoes. Robert Dayley would gleefully stand by and observe, with keen academic interest of course, how many more grenade launchers and machine gun attacks would it take before one lucky strike could hit the tent where the Kamnan sleeps at Lumpinee’s Suan Lum park. Those Kamnan people who reject-the-vote do deserve the bombs and the bullets to set to the right democratic path … right Robert?
As for the prevaricator Roy Anderson, I sense he must be googling left and right to get at least ‘one murder story of a Red’. But I’ll be patiently waiting Roy for that ‘whodunit’ story from you.
But the main issue is the supreme indictment that ALL human on earth MUST be in some way or other subservient to the economic interest of the multinationals which is the point about rich getting richer. And them every one instinctively sucks up to . There is no wrong they can do in the eyes of the “Academics”.
Your very article is about how to manage these massive, unlimited, poor, disposable souls in various labor camps the only difference being treated nicely or harshly as the Thai nationalistic Nazi would need to satisfy itself. That’s all.
The fundamental issue of all these human MUST be always of service to the global corporations stands. ILO is but, alas, simple look good component of the long list of the servants of the very same master. See how quickly- obscenely- ILO recognized the most honorable BURMA as great pace for the factories to start as it is so laborer friendly.
By the way, the sock-and soap laborers in Burma are not there yet. They are still breaking their backs in their own traditional ORGANIC farms to produce wholesome food for the nation and beyond. They will now be summarily evicted- a couple of years of high interest loans would definitely do- , their land mechanized and used to produce extra-high yield GM crops and they will then become rootless, listless, clueless, disorganized factory hands for generations to come with work/ strike cycles- of course with do-good labor unions -with ILO overseeing, more like steering, orchestrating- looking after “their” interest.
The whole scenario is so sick, it is a true wonder, people can still sleep at night.
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Mr. Heinecke cannot have his coup and eat it too
Paco 20.1: The 50% I am referring to do not know what is goin on and frankly most don’t really care: what they do not see they do not feel. It is only when their lives are directly affected will they start to understand and wake up to their condition. Real awareness comes from the heart not the head. This is why Thailand will never move much towards democracy as long as there is lack of conscientization… When most (75%) are finally awake and realise their situation, then the outcome we see today will be different. Don’t kid yourself that people see what you see, and even if they saw this, they would not believe. Propaganda is a powerful tool used by the royalist regime.
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
Question 8: General sir, does your coup network possess the integrity, honesty and and accountability to break with tradition by not writing your own automatic amnesty and get out if jail card into the new constitution ?
Thorns of the Thai rose
More politely, MYOB? 😉 No, Kelly, the world is too small for what happens in Thailand (or the Ukraine, or Egypt or anywhere else) not to be a matter of interest and even importance to others outside the country. The key is that ultimately decisions will be taken by the Thai people. That is why you
haveused to have elections, isn’t it?Mr. Heinecke cannot have his coup and eat it too
Jimu; “More than 50% Thai people actually are not aware of their situation or that they are living under a dictatorial regime”
You can’t be serious, right? Haven’t you read what’s actually going on in the country? I mean the whole country. Do you think that people are too stupid to notice military presence even in small villages, or that if they notice it, that they don’t question their presence. Don’t you think, that millions who went to vote, don’t ask what has happened to their votes? People may be silent for now, but they are not ignorant about what is going on…
Mr. Heinecke cannot have his coup and eat it too
Matt, obviously I must be talking to the wrong Thai people, or those who don’t feel like the great mass of happy people. The Thais I talk to are probably only “Undermenschen”, in your eyes, and therefore stupid and not worth listening to, right? Like they are too stupid to vote as well, agreed..?┬┐?
Thorns of the Thai rose
People are so quick to judge. Especially people of different ethnicity that have no Idea about the asian culture or their way of living. I’m just trying to say before you open your mouth and judge the people and the royal family get your facts straight! Or just don’t put in your two sense at all…. In my own words STFU GTFO
ANU event on Thai coup
While no Thai scholars are on the program, it will nevertheless be interesting to learn whether the Thai embassy in Canberra attempts to interfere with this event. I hope that the organizers will keep those of us far away from Canberra posted on any such attempts.
Ominous signs for migrant workers in Thailand
Charlie Thame
An apology of most sincere kind for lumping you under “academics”.
This article unlike the others is surely most fair since more than one vantage point of view is present to make your case positively on behalf of the MMW in Thailand.
The passion of my disdain for previous article, that surely serve nothing good for the unity of a poverty stricken country, got the better of myself.
Again my apology for unjustly maligning you.
Please continue your obvious passion on Myanmar migrant workers fate.
Remembering just a short while ago, personally witnessing the atrocious treatments suffered by these victims of the poverty of spirit, I salute your efforts.
Rohingya: denied the right to be human
AQ is an ideology, nothing to ‘repudiate’ here as no evidence; therefore there is nothing to ‘willingly tolerate’; news to me that other myanmar muslims despise the rohingya and your final comments on ‘illegal aliens …’ is simply showing us your racial hatred towards rohingya, and, most likely, others.
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
The FT had an article where a businessman is quoted (concerning the elite’s view of Thaksin), “ think he … mesmerizes the people…. Get rid of him and the people will become nice and subservient again.” They are simply wrong not least because their heroes and saviors are all of the past”
That question should be put to the junta, that is, do they believe that to be true.
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
Yes the hypocrisy is astounding. The network monarchy have screamed bloody murder over the parliamentary Tyranny of the majority and replaced it with a far more totalitarian tyranny of the minority using tanks and martial law, they quickly replaced the inadequately researched 2 trillion baht infrastructure project with a far less adequately researched 3 trillion baht infrastructure project, they were hysterical about populist policies and are now blowing the public purse on free footy, movies and concerts in a totally shameless populist crusade.
The US$100 billion or so that they are creaming as suggested above only accounts for some of the spoils, theres many other revenue streams and perks that come with seizing power.
Thaksin was a skilled swindler, but even he couldnt write his get out of jail card into the constitution again and again after plundering the public purse like his adversaries do.
Indeed, the master swindlers are back in the drivers seat again to take what they see as rightfully theirs. They are absolutely and unquestionably above the Law, in fact they are the law and the sky is the limit.
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
Once again we get the stories about Thaksins crimes.
I will not dispute them, but why has he not been charged? The junta of 2006, the Surayud interim government, the Abhisit ruling period… more than ample time to put together a case against him. We all know where the court system stands in this conflict.
There are two possible reasons why Thaksin has never been charged with these crimes, maybe more.
1. There is no evidence, there is no case.
2. There is evidence, but going through with a court case would implicate untouchables, including the military.
You should point fingers at the institutions that fail to do their job of indicting Thaksin, you should not point fingers at the voters who do their duty at the polling stations.
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
Is the 2007 constitution an option?
Here we have a constitution that the general’s buddies and mentors created, and which he proceeded to throw in the garbage a few weeks ago. Will he not look like an idiot pulling it out of the garbage again?
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
“Majoritarianism” is practised in all democracies. It is simply the way it works. In the UK where there is currently (although unusually) a coalition government, it is still that government that sets the political agenda and has the clout in terms of its combined parliamentary majority to put it into effect. The same is true wherever democratic government is practised. Ironically the only obvious exception to this rule is Thailand, where laws enacted by the majority elected government can be – and are – easily overturned by the judiciary without recourse to appeal. By the same token government ministers, elected by popular mandate can be bundled out of office at the whim of un-elected “independent” agencies, again without recourse to an appeal. Because of this Thailand
iswas possibly the only democracy where “majoritarianism” does not necessarily prevail.Seven questions for Thailand’s military
Had the government been able to police the demonstrations properly, the fatalities and injuries would at the very least have been kept to a bare minimum. The government was constrained by two factors: 1) the Constitutional Court’s decision critically restricting its ability to control the demonstrators; and 2) the position of the army itself, which meant that not only could the government not rely on military support to help control the demonstrations (and in particular ensure that the election was properly completed) but that it had always to be wary that any action it might take would only provide a pretext for the army to take over. TO bring this about was of course a prime aim of the PDRC and does at least give rise to the gruesome possibility that at least some of the fatalities and injuries were, so to speak, deliberately self inflicted by an unscrupulous single-minded PDRC leadership.
As far as the role of the military itself is concerned, it is noteworthy that, on an earlier occasion in support of a government more to its liking and that of the elite, it was prepared to use live rounds against demonstrators, resulting in over 90 fatalities.
Mr. Heinecke cannot have his coup and eat it too
Heinecke has lived in Thailand since 1963 at age 14. What he understands about Thailand may be much different from Strekfuss.
Rohingya: denied the right to be human
A few questions are relevant:
–To what extent has the Rohingya leadership repudiated their Al-Qaida/Islamist connections?
–Why would Myanmar willingly tolerate an AQ support element in their country?
–How do “abuses” of the Rohingya–generally despised by other Myanmar Muslims, especially in Rakhaing State–stack up against the genocide practiced against the Mayans in Guatemala by pro-US regimes in the 80s?
–Why are illegal aliens, including criminals and terrorists, rightfully deported by the Obama regime but this right is denied to the Myanmar government?
Comments, please. George Thomas
Mr. Heinecke cannot have his coup and eat it too
Thailand is a boiling egg. Future is rather uncertain. So if authorities do not give travel alerts, they may be held responsible if violence erupt.
And if I most certainly agree that Thailand remains very safe for foreigners, I must also remind you that a farang has been detained for wearing a “peace please” T-shirt / farang are also submitted to ‘shut the fuck up’ lese majeste laws.
Maybe (just an hypothesis) those travel alerts are also means of diplomatic pressure or at least a signal to the junta that the coup was not welcomed by many western countries.
Finally, you talk about foreign media but I have not seen any article saying that Thailand is dangerous for tourists. Most articles I read were questionning the travel alerts. Yes there are many critical articles on the coup and new regime. But one cannot ignore the impact of the coup for human rights or forget arbitrarily detained people, just because one wants to protect the tourism industry and the nice public image of Thailand!!
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
Robert Dayley continues with his ‘expert’ laborious circumlocutions but it is o.k., I get it! What Robert Dayley is saying is that General Prayuth should have taken the ‘wait-for-his-retirement-option’.
At least that’s what Robert Dayley would do, were he in the General shoes. Robert Dayley would gleefully stand by and observe, with keen academic interest of course, how many more grenade launchers and machine gun attacks would it take before one lucky strike could hit the tent where the Kamnan sleeps at Lumpinee’s Suan Lum park. Those Kamnan people who reject-the-vote do deserve the bombs and the bullets to set to the right democratic path … right Robert?
As for the prevaricator Roy Anderson, I sense he must be googling left and right to get at least ‘one murder story of a Red’. But I’ll be patiently waiting Roy for that ‘whodunit’ story from you.
Ominous signs for migrant workers in Thailand
Ignore those labels. They are just by the by.
But the main issue is the supreme indictment that ALL human on earth MUST be in some way or other subservient to the economic interest of the multinationals which is the point about rich getting richer. And them every one instinctively sucks up to . There is no wrong they can do in the eyes of the “Academics”.
Your very article is about how to manage these massive, unlimited, poor, disposable souls in various labor camps the only difference being treated nicely or harshly as the Thai nationalistic Nazi would need to satisfy itself. That’s all.
The fundamental issue of all these human MUST be always of service to the global corporations stands. ILO is but, alas, simple look good component of the long list of the servants of the very same master. See how quickly- obscenely- ILO recognized the most honorable BURMA as great pace for the factories to start as it is so laborer friendly.
By the way, the sock-and soap laborers in Burma are not there yet. They are still breaking their backs in their own traditional ORGANIC farms to produce wholesome food for the nation and beyond. They will now be summarily evicted- a couple of years of high interest loans would definitely do- , their land mechanized and used to produce extra-high yield GM crops and they will then become rootless, listless, clueless, disorganized factory hands for generations to come with work/ strike cycles- of course with do-good labor unions -with ILO overseeing, more like steering, orchestrating- looking after “their” interest.
The whole scenario is so sick, it is a true wonder, people can still sleep at night.