I’m not sure what you meant by “you lot”, but the author of this article is definitely Thai. “Mitrasahai Tanneung is a multiple-used name shared by a group of Thai-based writers and journalists.” As an American, I can vouch that their English is definitely Thai.
Anyway, what’s your point? You say “There are things for Thais to work out and no doubt they will in Thai time.” This article by Mitrasahai Tanneung is part of this process. You can’t claim this is part of some foreigner conspiracy. These are Thai people commenting. Is it because they don’t agree with you that you have a problem? That seems to be very common with royalists.
Whenever I get that “farang can not understand Thais” argument, I simply reply to them by speaking Lao ! They’re always too shocked to hit me – though I’ve had some near-misses.
Why does someone who lives in the UK for more then 11 years wearing a fancy Burberry coat have so much opinion on the Thai monarchy?, To my knowledge since the King of Thailand ascended to the throne he has done nothing but travel around Thailand to the most remotest part of the country to improve the infrastructures for the Thai people around the country during the past few decades he devoted himself for the people, the Thai queen herself is much recognized around the world for her devotion to the well being of her people. Like all human beings we all have our dark side but for an ignorant women who do not even know how the Thai people live to be judging and suggesting that Thailand do away with the monarchy is ridiculous and insulting to all the Thai people who know how to separate whats fact and fiction.
I am so sick of monarchists always saying foreigners don’t understand Thai people every time we disagree with something they do or say!
We do understand! You’re a bunch of soulless losers living in the Dark Ages. You use propaganda and lies to achieve your ends. You don’t, and never will, support democracy. All you’re interested in is holding on to your prestige and lining your pockets. The UDD has shined the light on all of you and exposed how morally bankrupt you are. Your legacy is getting worse by the day.
For the outside world, you xenophobic little weasel, democracy is the way. Coups are not acceptable. Peoples’ voices need to be heard through elections. It’s not 1200 AD anymore, and the Magna Carta has already been written. World opinion is starting to turn against Maithailand, and you will soon be a friendless pariah. Shunned and disdained, you will slowly melt into an uncontrollable state of anarchy. I hope you’re happy…
Thank you, Mr/Ms Pearshaped, for amply demonstrating your rage-driven lack of balance. I do feel for you. Really. I do hope you are able to move towards some greater equanimity.
Pearshaped, regrettably, cannot hear. But other readers here might know already there are easy answers to Pearshaped’s various questions and assertions. I don’t have the time to bother answering them. Someone else? Only to say that a few ‘facts’ thrown anonymously into the ring do not affect the broad narrative. We need much more than that.
By the way: Yes, I was a Timor activist in the 1970s and 80s. At the mild-mannered end of the spectrum. Now committed to ensuring archival records from all sides of the Timor issue survive for future generations. We definitely need more from the supporters and advocates of integration.
Yes it’s weird, right? When talking about military rules the country, it’s sound horrible. Amazingly in Thailand, it’s not like that. They limit our politic view, true, but actually we can live as we like and may be better when there are no protesters from both sides on the road. ( My home is really far away from work, it’s terrible to lose my precious time on the road) Politic here is like a soup-opera. We cannot know what is real, what is not real anymore.
I just want to express that the situation in Thailand is far from North Korea.
As I said, I did not support military and I wish to see our educational system developed, just think more, analyze more. I’m not happy just because I can live normally, I want to see my country develops too. Deep down, I want them (all oscar politicians) be vanished. I hope to see the new blood, new generation who is honestly eager to help my country. But because some compare Thailand to North Korean, that is why I leave my opinion here.
I do hope that this joke will end soon so that our economy will grow.
I agree with the previous comment. The article is one sided and biased. Saying that Jokowi did a remarkable job in being governor if Jakarta was an overstatement. Like many governors before him, many of the promises he made wasnt followed through. Traffic is still an issue, and flooding is also still an issue. If you want to say that he have been working hard, yes, but only to an extent that was acceptable. He have been very busy with the media, but thats just for appearance. If anything, I can say that Ahok is the one who are actually doing a lot of the work. Jokowi to me seems more like a front man, a charismatic leader. I take Jokowi as someone who can dream, but unable to realize them, just like dreamers do. I dont want to say much of Prabowo. All I know is that he is a business man, and he have been laying the groundwork for years.
Oh dear, Mr W wants to censor the truth. Danger Danger Will Smith! Why am I unsurprised. Mr W is an old unreconstructed activist with vested interests in mainstreaming the 75-99 propaganda, on which some overblown reputations lie. Faced with a personal account from a Viqueque man, a former Fretilin village head, Mr W chooses to pretend it didn’t happen. Typical.
So, how come so many of the Fretilin/Falintil leaders are still alive? Including those who perpetrated the Aileu and Same massacres? They weren’t killed upon surrender, nor did grieving Apodeti families, what was left of them, take revenge. Or – did Indonesia just like killing civilians and leave Fretilin alone? Piffle and Poppycock Mr W.
There was no population loss in the Western districts, the mass killings that occurred there were almost exclusively perpetrated by E.Timorese prior to integration. So, how did the activist propagandists reach a figure of 200-300,000 deaths, minus the Western districts, from a total population of less than 200,000 in the East? Lies, of course, big stinkaroos on a Goebbelsian scale.
If CAVR can’t get 1999 right, and it didn’t even want to, how can we rely upon it for anything else? Well, we can’t. Not a peep about the 3 Apodeti and UDT Liurais murdered by Fretilin in Beco, Raimea and Mape in 1975, not a peep about the 9 men women and children murdered by Falintil and Church activists in Ermera in 1999, although the details were readily available. A very, very deliberate cover up by CAVR. And on. And on. The True history of E.Timor 1974-2007 can never be written by activists, the vested interests are too great.
But then, what can we expect from award winning CAVR activists who are on record stating that they can understand why Fretilin massacred the Apodeti leaders? Imagine an award winning human rights activist saying the same thing about WW2 – outrage, calls for the award to be handed back. But not in the strange little cult of East Timorism, where propaganda rules and remains unchallenged by the silenced voices of Fretlin’s victims. And common sense.
Mt wife’s reaction is: ‘Don’t get involved they may come for you. They many kill the whole family’. It seems OTT, but perhaps not if one remembers military interventions of the past.
Pearshaped’s anonymous swipes have no useful place in any serious/considered discussion of Timor-related issues on this blog or elsewhere (aka The Lyrebird). Thankfully, no-one but the most cranky propagandist would accept that the TNI/ABRI went into Timor to ‘save the people’.
Yes, during the major Indonesian military operations in 1977-8 in particular, the Fretilin-led resistance did punish or kill people wanting to surrender (though there was significant internal conflict within the resistance about this policy). And civilians certainly suffered from food shortages while on the run with the resistance.
What Pearshaped doesn’t say is that up to 300,000 surrendering, starving East Timorese were then kept in camps by their TNI/ABRI saviours and denied access to international humanitarian aid for as long as two years. Large numbers died of hunger and disease.
For a much more balanced account and detail of human rights violations and the responsible parties on both sides of the conflict, read Chega!, the report of Timor-Leste’s reception, truth and reconciliation commission (CAVR). A big read, so I suggest a dip into parts of Chapter 7 and read the Findings at 7.3.7: http://www.cavr-timorleste.org/chegaFiles/finalReportEng/07.3-Forced-Displacement-and-Famine.pdf
A high school-level ‘compare and contrast’ exercise with CAVR’s and Pearshaped’s accounts would quickly settle which is the more balanced.
I have lived in and traveled through Thailand for years. I came here with the impressions the NGOs had left me through their typical advertisements depicting the evil foreigner exploiting children and luring them off to dark dingy rooms to be sexually ravaged. I can tell you that foreign men are so high profile in this part of the world that the opportunities for any who are predisposed to that kind of perverted activity would have little chance of doing so without raising more than just eyebrows.
However, what I did see when I explored the small villages in my travels through Thailand was brothel-bars tucked far away from where the vast majority of foreigners would ever see them, and the age of the girls lounging seductively outside the small dimly lit and squalor bars was shockingly young. Occasionally, when I would pass by these bars on foot, allowing me enough time to see these child prostitutes, their reaction was not one of attempts to lure me into the bar, but instead it was one of great surprise that a foreigner is even in the village. Most would shyly scramble back into the bar and clearly had never had an encounter with a foreign man. The ones who were a bit braver and remained sitting outside the bar would look in silent and nervous curiosity, and I’m sure that if I had attempted to talk to them, their bravery would have quickly evaporated and they would have joined the other girls who fled at first sight of something so unusual as a foreign man walking down their street.
The NGOs who have positioned themselves to combat sexual exploitation (in SE Asia) do not not stand a chance of defeating the true enemy — cultural traditions that have been ingrained in the rural setting of Cambodia, Thailand, Laos, etc. for ages, and they will not be changed by a foreigner’s objections or efforts. I’m convinced that ninety-nine percent of the sexual encounters involving underage people in this part of the world are contained to the indigenous population, and until the majority of citizens in those cultures decide that there’s something wrong that must be changed, it isn’t going to happen.
Many NGO’s are justifiably looked at with suspicion these days, and this latest revelation will do them no favor. I think more and more people will see them as “good causes” implemented by uninformed and generally over-pampered rich folks who need to do something for their own mental comfort (through a feeling that instead of only living a shallow and spoiled existence, they are actually making a difference). Or even worse, they will see them as false fronts for something more menacing.
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Thailand: a “soft revolution” in a happy country
I’m not sure what you meant by “you lot”, but the author of this article is definitely Thai. “Mitrasahai Tanneung is a multiple-used name shared by a group of Thai-based writers and journalists.” As an American, I can vouch that their English is definitely Thai.
Anyway, what’s your point? You say “There are things for Thais to work out and no doubt they will in Thai time.” This article by Mitrasahai Tanneung is part of this process. You can’t claim this is part of some foreigner conspiracy. These are Thai people commenting. Is it because they don’t agree with you that you have a problem? That seems to be very common with royalists.
Thailand: a “soft revolution” in a happy country
My reply #5.1 is meant to show the typical response from “the good people” when pro-gov, anti-coup protesters demonstrate.
Thailand: a “soft revolution” in a happy country
They are paid 500 baht each.
Thailand, what next?
Exactly! Thank you! Thaksin is a pimple on the ass of an elephant. He’s nothing compared to a family I’m not legally allowed to discuss.
Thailand, what next?
You could also say the same thing about someone else in Thailand that we’re not allowed to talk about.
Thailand, what next?
“The final question is how can Prayuth restore democracy?”
Don’t you have to have something before it’s restored?
Thailand: a “soft revolution” in a happy country
NAEWNA 29 May 2014
Below is an example of people showing support to the junta.
29 р╕Ю.р╕Д. 57 р╕бр╕╡р╕гр╕▓р╕вр╕Зр╕▓р╕Щр╕зр╣Ир╕▓ р╕Юр╕гр╕╕р╣Ир╕Зр╕Щр╕╡р╣Й (30 р╕Ю.р╕Д.) р╣Ар╕зр╕ер╕▓ 09.30р╕Щ.р╕Бр╕ер╕╕р╣Ир╕бр╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Бр╕гр╕бр╕кр╣Ир╕Зр╣Ар╕кр╕гр╕┤р╕бр╕кр╕лр╕Бр╕гр╕Ур╣М р╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Ир╕▒р╕Зр╕лр╕зр╕▒р╕Фр╕Хр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╣Жр╕нр╕▓р╕Чр╕┤ р╕Щр╕Др╕гр╕Ыр╕Рр╕б р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕Щр╕Др╕гр╕ир╕гр╕╡р╕нр╕вр╕╕р╕Шр╕вр╕▓ р╕Кр╕ер╕Ър╕╕р╕гр╕╡ р╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕гр╕Ър╕╕р╕гр╕╡ р╕кр╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕╕р╕гр╕╡ р╕ер╕Юр╕Ър╕╕р╕гр╕╡ р╕Кр╕ер╕Ър╕╕р╕гр╕╡ р╕Щр╕Щр╕Чр╕Ър╕╕р╕гр╕╡ р╕Хр╕гр╕▓р╕Ф р╕Ир╕░р╕Щр╕▒р╕Фр╕гр╕зр╕бр╕Хр╕▒р╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕ер╕▓р╕Щр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕гр╕бр╕гр╕╣р╕Ыр╕Чр╕гр╕Зр╕бр╣Йр╕▓ р╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Ир╕░р╣Ар╕Фр╕┤р╕Щр╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╣Др╕Ыр╕Вр╕нр╕Ър╕Др╕╕р╕Ур╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Ър╕гр╕┤р╕Ир╕▓р╕Др╕кр╕┤р╣Ир╕Зр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╣Бр╕Бр╣Ир╕Чр╕лр╕▓р╕гр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕Кр╣Ир╕зр╕вр╣Ар╕лр╕ер╕╖р╕нр╕кр╕бр╕▓р╕Кр╕┤р╕Бр╕кр╕лр╕Бр╕гр╕Ур╣Мр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╣Ар╕Зр╕┤р╕Щр╣Вр╕Др╕гр╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕Ир╕│р╕Щр╕│р╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕з
р╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕лр╕бр╕Фр╕Ир╕░р╣Ар╕Фр╕┤р╕Щр╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╣Др╕Ыр╕вр╕▒р╕Зр╕лр╕Щр╣Йр╕▓р╕Бр╕нр╕Зр╕Чр╕▒р╕Юр╕ар╕▓р╕Др╕Чр╕╡р╣И 1 р╕кр╕│р╕лр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕кр╕┤р╣Ир╕Зр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕кр╕лр╕Бр╕гр╕Ур╣Мр╕гр╕зр╕Ър╕гр╕зр╕бр╕бр╕▓р╕бр╕нр╕Ър╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Чр╕лр╕▓р╕г р╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╣Бр╕Бр╣И р╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕зр╕кр╕▓р╕г р╕Бр╕ер╣Йр╕зр╕вр╕лр╕нр╕б р╣Ар╕Зр╕▓р╕░ р╕Цр╕╕р╕Зр╣Ар╕Чр╣Йр╕▓ р╕нр╕╕р╕Ыр╕Бр╕гр╕Ур╣Мр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Гр╕Кр╣Йр╣Гр╕Щр╕Кр╕╡р╕зр╕┤р╕Хр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Ир╕│р╕зр╕▒р╕Щ
Thailand’s invitation to violence
Whenever I get that “farang can not understand Thais” argument, I simply reply to them by speaking Lao ! They’re always too shocked to hit me – though I’ve had some near-misses.
Thorns of the Thai rose
Why does someone who lives in the UK for more then 11 years wearing a fancy Burberry coat have so much opinion on the Thai monarchy?, To my knowledge since the King of Thailand ascended to the throne he has done nothing but travel around Thailand to the most remotest part of the country to improve the infrastructures for the Thai people around the country during the past few decades he devoted himself for the people, the Thai queen herself is much recognized around the world for her devotion to the well being of her people. Like all human beings we all have our dark side but for an ignorant women who do not even know how the Thai people live to be judging and suggesting that Thailand do away with the monarchy is ridiculous and insulting to all the Thai people who know how to separate whats fact and fiction.
Prabowo and the art of being tegas
Glad you post it. Now I really know what happened to them.
Thailand’s invitation to violence
I am so sick of monarchists always saying foreigners don’t understand Thai people every time we disagree with something they do or say!
We do understand! You’re a bunch of soulless losers living in the Dark Ages. You use propaganda and lies to achieve your ends. You don’t, and never will, support democracy. All you’re interested in is holding on to your prestige and lining your pockets. The UDD has shined the light on all of you and exposed how morally bankrupt you are. Your legacy is getting worse by the day.
For the outside world, you xenophobic little weasel, democracy is the way. Coups are not acceptable. Peoples’ voices need to be heard through elections. It’s not 1200 AD anymore, and the Magna Carta has already been written. World opinion is starting to turn against Maithailand, and you will soon be a friendless pariah. Shunned and disdained, you will slowly melt into an uncontrollable state of anarchy. I hope you’re happy…
Thailand’s invitation to violence
Wow! Outstanding article. If I could write something about the Thai situation, this would be it. Thank you!
A lesson for researchers
Thank you, Mr/Ms Pearshaped, for amply demonstrating your rage-driven lack of balance. I do feel for you. Really. I do hope you are able to move towards some greater equanimity.
Pearshaped, regrettably, cannot hear. But other readers here might know already there are easy answers to Pearshaped’s various questions and assertions. I don’t have the time to bother answering them. Someone else? Only to say that a few ‘facts’ thrown anonymously into the ring do not affect the broad narrative. We need much more than that.
By the way: Yes, I was a Timor activist in the 1970s and 80s. At the mild-mannered end of the spectrum. Now committed to ensuring archival records from all sides of the Timor issue survive for future generations. We definitely need more from the supporters and advocates of integration.
Thorns of the Thai rose
Yes it’s weird, right? When talking about military rules the country, it’s sound horrible. Amazingly in Thailand, it’s not like that. They limit our politic view, true, but actually we can live as we like and may be better when there are no protesters from both sides on the road. ( My home is really far away from work, it’s terrible to lose my precious time on the road) Politic here is like a soup-opera. We cannot know what is real, what is not real anymore.
I just want to express that the situation in Thailand is far from North Korea.
As I said, I did not support military and I wish to see our educational system developed, just think more, analyze more. I’m not happy just because I can live normally, I want to see my country develops too. Deep down, I want them (all oscar politicians) be vanished. I hope to see the new blood, new generation who is honestly eager to help my country. But because some compare Thailand to North Korean, that is why I leave my opinion here.
I do hope that this joke will end soon so that our economy will grow.
Sukarno’s two bodies
I agree with the previous comment. The article is one sided and biased. Saying that Jokowi did a remarkable job in being governor if Jakarta was an overstatement. Like many governors before him, many of the promises he made wasnt followed through. Traffic is still an issue, and flooding is also still an issue. If you want to say that he have been working hard, yes, but only to an extent that was acceptable. He have been very busy with the media, but thats just for appearance. If anything, I can say that Ahok is the one who are actually doing a lot of the work. Jokowi to me seems more like a front man, a charismatic leader. I take Jokowi as someone who can dream, but unable to realize them, just like dreamers do. I dont want to say much of Prabowo. All I know is that he is a business man, and he have been laying the groundwork for years.
A lesson for researchers
Oh dear, Mr W wants to censor the truth. Danger Danger Will Smith! Why am I unsurprised. Mr W is an old unreconstructed activist with vested interests in mainstreaming the 75-99 propaganda, on which some overblown reputations lie. Faced with a personal account from a Viqueque man, a former Fretilin village head, Mr W chooses to pretend it didn’t happen. Typical.
So, how come so many of the Fretilin/Falintil leaders are still alive? Including those who perpetrated the Aileu and Same massacres? They weren’t killed upon surrender, nor did grieving Apodeti families, what was left of them, take revenge. Or – did Indonesia just like killing civilians and leave Fretilin alone? Piffle and Poppycock Mr W.
There was no population loss in the Western districts, the mass killings that occurred there were almost exclusively perpetrated by E.Timorese prior to integration. So, how did the activist propagandists reach a figure of 200-300,000 deaths, minus the Western districts, from a total population of less than 200,000 in the East? Lies, of course, big stinkaroos on a Goebbelsian scale.
If CAVR can’t get 1999 right, and it didn’t even want to, how can we rely upon it for anything else? Well, we can’t. Not a peep about the 3 Apodeti and UDT Liurais murdered by Fretilin in Beco, Raimea and Mape in 1975, not a peep about the 9 men women and children murdered by Falintil and Church activists in Ermera in 1999, although the details were readily available. A very, very deliberate cover up by CAVR. And on. And on. The True history of E.Timor 1974-2007 can never be written by activists, the vested interests are too great.
But then, what can we expect from award winning CAVR activists who are on record stating that they can understand why Fretilin massacred the Apodeti leaders? Imagine an award winning human rights activist saying the same thing about WW2 – outrage, calls for the award to be handed back. But not in the strange little cult of East Timorism, where propaganda rules and remains unchallenged by the silenced voices of Fretlin’s victims. And common sense.
Thailand, what next?
Mt wife’s reaction is: ‘Don’t get involved they may come for you. They many kill the whole family’. It seems OTT, but perhaps not if one remembers military interventions of the past.
A lesson for researchers
Pearshaped’s anonymous swipes have no useful place in any serious/considered discussion of Timor-related issues on this blog or elsewhere (aka The Lyrebird). Thankfully, no-one but the most cranky propagandist would accept that the TNI/ABRI went into Timor to ‘save the people’.
Yes, during the major Indonesian military operations in 1977-8 in particular, the Fretilin-led resistance did punish or kill people wanting to surrender (though there was significant internal conflict within the resistance about this policy). And civilians certainly suffered from food shortages while on the run with the resistance.
What Pearshaped doesn’t say is that up to 300,000 surrendering, starving East Timorese were then kept in camps by their TNI/ABRI saviours and denied access to international humanitarian aid for as long as two years. Large numbers died of hunger and disease.
For a much more balanced account and detail of human rights violations and the responsible parties on both sides of the conflict, read Chega!, the report of Timor-Leste’s reception, truth and reconciliation commission (CAVR). A big read, so I suggest a dip into parts of Chapter 7 and read the Findings at 7.3.7:
http://www.cavr-timorleste.org/chegaFiles/finalReportEng/07.3-Forced-Displacement-and-Famine.pdf
A high school-level ‘compare and contrast’ exercise with CAVR’s and Pearshaped’s accounts would quickly settle which is the more balanced.
What’s the truth behind Somaly Mam?
I have lived in and traveled through Thailand for years. I came here with the impressions the NGOs had left me through their typical advertisements depicting the evil foreigner exploiting children and luring them off to dark dingy rooms to be sexually ravaged. I can tell you that foreign men are so high profile in this part of the world that the opportunities for any who are predisposed to that kind of perverted activity would have little chance of doing so without raising more than just eyebrows.
However, what I did see when I explored the small villages in my travels through Thailand was brothel-bars tucked far away from where the vast majority of foreigners would ever see them, and the age of the girls lounging seductively outside the small dimly lit and squalor bars was shockingly young. Occasionally, when I would pass by these bars on foot, allowing me enough time to see these child prostitutes, their reaction was not one of attempts to lure me into the bar, but instead it was one of great surprise that a foreigner is even in the village. Most would shyly scramble back into the bar and clearly had never had an encounter with a foreign man. The ones who were a bit braver and remained sitting outside the bar would look in silent and nervous curiosity, and I’m sure that if I had attempted to talk to them, their bravery would have quickly evaporated and they would have joined the other girls who fled at first sight of something so unusual as a foreign man walking down their street.
The NGOs who have positioned themselves to combat sexual exploitation (in SE Asia) do not not stand a chance of defeating the true enemy — cultural traditions that have been ingrained in the rural setting of Cambodia, Thailand, Laos, etc. for ages, and they will not be changed by a foreigner’s objections or efforts. I’m convinced that ninety-nine percent of the sexual encounters involving underage people in this part of the world are contained to the indigenous population, and until the majority of citizens in those cultures decide that there’s something wrong that must be changed, it isn’t going to happen.
Many NGO’s are justifiably looked at with suspicion these days, and this latest revelation will do them no favor. I think more and more people will see them as “good causes” implemented by uninformed and generally over-pampered rich folks who need to do something for their own mental comfort (through a feeling that instead of only living a shallow and spoiled existence, they are actually making a difference). Or even worse, they will see them as false fronts for something more menacing.
Thorns of the Thai rose
Interesting New Mandala has now caught the attention of many more royalists than usual. Will this blog be banned in Thailand soon?