“Prayuth seemingly is not much interested in the King, no pictures of the King featured in the coup, sending letters rather than looking for an audience, kept waiting for formal approval from the Royal Office.
Actually not using royal images and no audience is seen as tactical move – this time trying to actually keep King “bit more clean” out of this mess by not wrapping up in his image and such. This is actually how it “should” go if you wanna do coup or generally protest etc: not holding the image of demigod like it somehow makes your agenda “supreme” to others.
#15, good on you David. But I have to say people have already made their minds up on Thaksin some years back and few will change. The propaganda even penetrated many academics who scored big on articles ranting the same unfounded nonsense. Thaksin was in fact, ironically, too efficient, and he (dangerously) outshone certain elite achievements in the countryside. His “crime”? he was a micro-manager, at times weak on consultation process, which he later admitted. corrupt? absolutely no evidence found despite the massive resources spent post-2006 coup to find something. That was a means to justify getting rid of him by the amaat. sincere? I believe yes. For those obsessed critics of Thaksin the best medicine is to learn to listen to people who experienced real democracy, empowerment, and positive social change under his government. majority peoples will continue to vote for the person they have trust in to bring about meaningful democratic reforms. It started in the periphery because this is where most of the poverty persists. This is the process of democracy, imperfect as it may be, and has to be given a chance to move forward. Thaksin was the start, but it does not have to finish with him…
” … but the mainstream red shirts, meaning the UDD and Pheu Thai, will most likely eschew violence …” Trirat Petchsingh
If what k. Trirat says is true, I could sleep more soundly at night. But there is a ‘bloodlust-and-hatred’ tonality to nearly every past Red Shirts rally punctuated by violence, maimings and death. Had any of the UDD leaders condemned the ‘finesse’ of Arisman or Nattawut who cheered on their followers to gut Bangkok into a “sea of fire” with that “benzine-filled-plastic bottles” call?
Just want to drop by to thank for taking a stance against power that be, with all the “arrest” issued to even academics.
A small beacon of light in such dark time.
Yes, its an arrest, not a bloody “invitation”. Such a generous offer you cant refuse.
Do I sense a sudden turn to indignation from k. Khemthong against vote-buying, rampant or not? Very encouraging that common good sense could prevail, whatever ANU experts (and there a number) write pages upon pages on such matter.
But I agree with you k. Khemthong that irrespective of whether vote-buying is rampant or not, Thailand needs to proceed with elections. And vote-buying politicians should be prosecuted, no quarters or mercy given, to the full measure of the law period.
Policy indeed matters. But why do I get this sense of dismay, disgust and lingering indigestion at that “it is cool to be corrupt” poetry from that rapper named Thaksin?
Do I sense a sudden turn to indignation from k. Khemthong against vote-buying, illegal or not? Very encouraging that common good sense could prevail, whatever ANU experts (and there a number) write pages upon pages on such matter.
But I agree with you k. Khemthong that irrespective of whether vote-buying is rampant or not, Thailand needs to proceed with elections. And vote-buying politicians should be prosecuted, no quarters or mercy given, to the full measure of the law period.
Policy indeed matters. But why do I get this sense of dismay, disgust and lingering indigestion at that “it is cool to be corrupt” poetry from that rapper named Thaksin?
I agree that the coup is an invitation to violence, but I don’t believe it’s in the red shirt’s benefit to accept Prayuth’s gambit. Of course hardliners and radical elements could react with force, but the mainstream red shirts, meaning the UDD and Pheu Thai, will most likely eschew violence. They have embraced non-violence and democracy as principles of their movement. One does not lightly betray these principles, especially when options are available. One of these options is, since they can expect to win any general election, to weather the storm and achieve victory through the ballot box, rather than inviting universal condemnation by starting an insurrection. True, the cycle of win-subversion-coup could be repeated again and again, but it is a core conviction that democracy will eventually triumph.
Please site some data/ facts backing your claim. Mr. T’s family barely makes the top-10 richest Thai families, according to Forbes. You would think if he was as corrupt as you say, he could at least make the top 5?
Vote-buying, rampant or not, is illegal. The Election Commission must take good care of such allegation. But the EC should not simply give up and ask the military to clean what they leave undone.
And is vote-buying rampant? Does it occur to the scale that we should have no election for the next two years? My answer is negative.
Alongkorn Pollabutr, the democrat member himself, admitted that the Democrat might even spend more money than PT, and still lost. Think about the effectiveness of vote-buying. Policy matters.
Afghanistan is sacking half of their election officials c. 5,500 because of allegation of electoral fraud by both presidential candidates. But they press on with next month election.
I like being in the NM herd. I feel at home here and it gives me moral support and courage to oppose the coup, because I know that there are others who think like me!
Compared to what? Siphoning money from land encroachment policies, from police station construction scams, from palm oil policy scams? Having your media company receive government funds while you’re deputy PM? Blimp money? Fake Detector money? Are you implying that the people who pulled these scams are some kind of solution to your dreaded, feared and loathed Dr. Evil?
People still seem to think Thaksin was (and I suppose still is) corrupt
Wonder where people picked up these ideas? If it was Sondhi Lim and the Yellows shirts I note that Sondhi is only recently out after being convicted for business fraud.
And, note that despite huge efforts to prove Thaksin corrupt the only conviction he has is helping his wife purchase land in an open auction at what is agreed was a slightly above market price.
As far as I can determine other allegations are by people expert in being corrupt themselves.
Thaksin’s crime was using democratic processes to win elections against other people who seem too lazy to learn about democracy and keep trying to win by using the army to validate their claims.
Ahhhhh come on k. Khemthong, anyone could produce pages and pages of balderdash to glorify (or even salute) the ‘inevitability’ of vote-buying, but you should not let that substitute for common good sense. Rampant vote-buying is illegal, rampant vote-buying is unethical, rampant vote-buying erodes the legitimacy of elections … and by extension makes a farce of the very democracy those rampant vote-buyers loudly espouse.
Get a grip of your senses k. Khemthong …
But that said, I could safely predict that: There is no more ‘what’s next for the Democrat Party’. The Democrat Party is dead and good riddance. The Democrat Party had failed its followers and the country, had lost their democratic compass absolutely, and, every party members (with democratic) are better off re-enlisting with the other parties (big or small including Peau Thai Party) and maybe … just maybe get their ‘democratic re-education’ from a better perspective.
“…one can clearly see that it’s not as simple as new elections solving all problems…”
Almost the epitome of “straw man” argument. Who says they do – unless you imagine that what’s on a demonstrator’s placard is all anyone is saying? Simply put (and for the nth time) – elections don’t by themselves create democracy*, but you can’t have democracy without them.
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Thorns of the Thai rose
David Brown:
“Prayuth seemingly is not much interested in the King, no pictures of the King featured in the coup, sending letters rather than looking for an audience, kept waiting for formal approval from the Royal Office.
Actually not using royal images and no audience is seen as tactical move – this time trying to actually keep King “bit more clean” out of this mess by not wrapping up in his image and such. This is actually how it “should” go if you wanna do coup or generally protest etc: not holding the image of demigod like it somehow makes your agenda “supreme” to others.
Thailand, what next?
#15, good on you David. But I have to say people have already made their minds up on Thaksin some years back and few will change. The propaganda even penetrated many academics who scored big on articles ranting the same unfounded nonsense. Thaksin was in fact, ironically, too efficient, and he (dangerously) outshone certain elite achievements in the countryside. His “crime”? he was a micro-manager, at times weak on consultation process, which he later admitted. corrupt? absolutely no evidence found despite the massive resources spent post-2006 coup to find something. That was a means to justify getting rid of him by the amaat. sincere? I believe yes. For those obsessed critics of Thaksin the best medicine is to learn to listen to people who experienced real democracy, empowerment, and positive social change under his government. majority peoples will continue to vote for the person they have trust in to bring about meaningful democratic reforms. It started in the periphery because this is where most of the poverty persists. This is the process of democracy, imperfect as it may be, and has to be given a chance to move forward. Thaksin was the start, but it does not have to finish with him…
Thailand’s invitation to violence
” … but the mainstream red shirts, meaning the UDD and Pheu Thai, will most likely eschew violence …” Trirat Petchsingh
If what k. Trirat says is true, I could sleep more soundly at night. But there is a ‘bloodlust-and-hatred’ tonality to nearly every past Red Shirts rally punctuated by violence, maimings and death. Had any of the UDD leaders condemned the ‘finesse’ of Arisman or Nattawut who cheered on their followers to gut Bangkok into a “sea of fire” with that “benzine-filled-plastic bottles” call?
Thailand’s invitation to violence
Just want to drop by to thank for taking a stance against power that be, with all the “arrest” issued to even academics.
A small beacon of light in such dark time.
Yes, its an arrest, not a bloody “invitation”. Such a generous offer you cant refuse.
Thailand, what next?
Do I sense a sudden turn to indignation from k. Khemthong against vote-buying, rampant or not? Very encouraging that common good sense could prevail, whatever ANU experts (and there a number) write pages upon pages on such matter.
But I agree with you k. Khemthong that irrespective of whether vote-buying is rampant or not, Thailand needs to proceed with elections. And vote-buying politicians should be prosecuted, no quarters or mercy given, to the full measure of the law period.
Policy indeed matters. But why do I get this sense of dismay, disgust and lingering indigestion at that “it is cool to be corrupt” poetry from that rapper named Thaksin?
Thailand, what next?
Do I sense a sudden turn to indignation from k. Khemthong against vote-buying, illegal or not? Very encouraging that common good sense could prevail, whatever ANU experts (and there a number) write pages upon pages on such matter.
But I agree with you k. Khemthong that irrespective of whether vote-buying is rampant or not, Thailand needs to proceed with elections. And vote-buying politicians should be prosecuted, no quarters or mercy given, to the full measure of the law period.
Policy indeed matters. But why do I get this sense of dismay, disgust and lingering indigestion at that “it is cool to be corrupt” poetry from that rapper named Thaksin?
Thailand, what next?
Vote buying? Are you serious? 55555555 The vote buying issue is a red herring. Never been decisive.
Let us recall, a far more serious kind of vote buying is what made Mr. Abhisit “Mark” Vejjajiva PM. Or does the name “Newin Chidchob” nothing to you?
Thailand’s invitation to violence
I agree that the coup is an invitation to violence, but I don’t believe it’s in the red shirt’s benefit to accept Prayuth’s gambit. Of course hardliners and radical elements could react with force, but the mainstream red shirts, meaning the UDD and Pheu Thai, will most likely eschew violence. They have embraced non-violence and democracy as principles of their movement. One does not lightly betray these principles, especially when options are available. One of these options is, since they can expect to win any general election, to weather the storm and achieve victory through the ballot box, rather than inviting universal condemnation by starting an insurrection. True, the cycle of win-subversion-coup could be repeated again and again, but it is a core conviction that democracy will eventually triumph.
Thailand, what next?
Please site some data/ facts backing your claim. Mr. T’s family barely makes the top-10 richest Thai families, according to Forbes. You would think if he was as corrupt as you say, he could at least make the top 5?
Thailand, what next?
Vote-buying, rampant or not, is illegal. The Election Commission must take good care of such allegation. But the EC should not simply give up and ask the military to clean what they leave undone.
And is vote-buying rampant? Does it occur to the scale that we should have no election for the next two years? My answer is negative.
Alongkorn Pollabutr, the democrat member himself, admitted that the Democrat might even spend more money than PT, and still lost. Think about the effectiveness of vote-buying. Policy matters.
Afghanistan is sacking half of their election officials c. 5,500 because of allegation of electoral fraud by both presidential candidates. But they press on with next month election.
Thailand, what next?
http://www.bangkokpost.com/most-recent/411825/pol-maj-gen-krit-kittilue-transfer-cancelled
Meanwhile it appears the royal endorsement is now going ahead sans royales
Thailand’s information war
I like being in the NM herd. I feel at home here and it gives me moral support and courage to oppose the coup, because I know that there are others who think like me!
Thailand, what next?
If they don’t, do you promise to stop predicting it?
Thailand’s invitation to violence
Couldn’t agree more.. The biggest problem is all those middle-class Bangkokians mistaking hatred for a political opinion.
Thailand, what next?
Compared to what? Siphoning money from land encroachment policies, from police station construction scams, from palm oil policy scams? Having your media company receive government funds while you’re deputy PM? Blimp money? Fake Detector money? Are you implying that the people who pulled these scams are some kind of solution to your dreaded, feared and loathed Dr. Evil?
Thailand, what next?
” … And every sign of reducing the people of Isarn – and Lanna – to their former status as second class citizens…” ChrisBeale
When were they, the Isaans, ever been ‘second class citizens’? I would be delighted to get an education from Chris Beale.
Thailand, what next?
People still seem to think Thaksin was (and I suppose still is) corrupt
Wonder where people picked up these ideas? If it was Sondhi Lim and the Yellows shirts I note that Sondhi is only recently out after being convicted for business fraud.
And, note that despite huge efforts to prove Thaksin corrupt the only conviction he has is helping his wife purchase land in an open auction at what is agreed was a slightly above market price.
As far as I can determine other allegations are by people expert in being corrupt themselves.
Thaksin’s crime was using democratic processes to win elections against other people who seem too lazy to learn about democracy and keep trying to win by using the army to validate their claims.
Thailand, what next?
Ahhhhh come on k. Khemthong, anyone could produce pages and pages of balderdash to glorify (or even salute) the ‘inevitability’ of vote-buying, but you should not let that substitute for common good sense. Rampant vote-buying is illegal, rampant vote-buying is unethical, rampant vote-buying erodes the legitimacy of elections … and by extension makes a farce of the very democracy those rampant vote-buyers loudly espouse.
Get a grip of your senses k. Khemthong …
But that said, I could safely predict that: There is no more ‘what’s next for the Democrat Party’. The Democrat Party is dead and good riddance. The Democrat Party had failed its followers and the country, had lost their democratic compass absolutely, and, every party members (with democratic) are better off re-enlisting with the other parties (big or small including Peau Thai Party) and maybe … just maybe get their ‘democratic re-education’ from a better perspective.
Thailand, what next?
Hi Zaw. When it is published, would you please send a scanned copy to me at [email protected]? I would love to keep one. 🙂
Condemnation of the coup
“…one can clearly see that it’s not as simple as new elections solving all problems…”
Almost the epitome of “straw man” argument. Who says they do – unless you imagine that what’s on a demonstrator’s placard is all anyone is saying? Simply put (and for the nth time) – elections don’t by themselves create democracy*, but you can’t have democracy without them.
[* let alone “solve all problems”]