Even though My Taylor O’Connor demonstrably failed to mention the “international communities” (Plan B’s the West) is part of the manufacturing procvess of not only this horrid humanaterain diasater in the process but many ohers or details like that man used to be called Gambira was simply their own plant who was supposed to have written an article in Washington Post, no less, while he was in the jail (what a fairy tale, if tall) etc, the article in the reference and many similar others prove nothing but a pipe dream of some loose loonies obviously touching the spot of other equal loonies.
Brother Ahmad,
You and your fellow supporters define katak bawah tempurung. Bukaklah mata sikit and look around you!!
And please read the responses to your rant…
As Dr Carey has chosen not to express any contemporary political views regarding Indonesia’s recent election, which I truly
respect, I will avail myself of the opportunity. I will also address some aspects
of Dr Carey’s prior post, from a more contemporary perspective. I do feel the title
is apt: “Uses and Abuses of History” but perhaps not in the way Dr Carey intended.
Many Indonesians, especially the affluent ones, were expecting the elections to produce a “Indonesian Knight on a Brown Water Buffalo” and many were greatly disturbed, when they did get the buffalo, but not the Indonesian Knight. History is not made by winners or losers, but by academics
(unfortunately). As much as many Indonesians are unable to come to terms with unrealistic expectations about governance, so some of these same Indonesians, have yet to come to terms with historical events, pre-colonial and post-colonial. No one likes to be told ‘bad news’, so I will anyway. The comfort of history, as viewed by Indonesian nationalists and proud citizens, and the all the horrors
of Snouk Hurgronje, make for wonderful recitations of Javanese (and Minang and Batak and all the other contributors to this history) bravery and the incipient development of Indonesia’s independence
and so on and so forth. What Indonesians are less inclined to engage in a national historical dialogue, is what happened in 1963, why it happened, and to whom it happened. Even more so, lest one was led to
believe Merdeka merely happened by Prophetic
dictat or Allah’s graces, not all Indonesians were just sitting around in 1948. As readily as many Indonesians are happy to discuss the role of, and ultimate removal, of the Dutch from their nation, they are equally reticent to discuss the role of the Japanese and the role of Indonesian nationalist-Japanese alliances, in the colonial period. It might be cathartic to hang the Sword of Damocles
over the head of Snouck and other Dutch, and
Jan Pieterszoon Coen (a very very distant relative of mine), makes an attractive target (though a rather distant one), perhaps less cathartic would be an examination of the Indonesian-Japanese relationship in colonial
Indonesia, particularly Japan’s warmongering in Asia, and its rather disingenuous claim, of freeing Asia (or parts thereof) of Western ‘polluting’ influence. Given the treatment of many Chinese, Koreans, Taiwanese
and Southeast Asians by the Japanese war machine, maybe it is time for Indonesians to revisit, a less pleasant past, when native sons collaborated with not so native sons, who’s interests in Indonesia, engendered not only trade, but physical abuse, rape, internment camps, but also collaborations with some well known figures in Indonesian
history. We all have to deal with our own versions of history, some accurate and some
idealised. As this portion of Indonesia’s history, seems to have received less domestic attention, perhaps now is as good a time, as any, that it did.
Note for your questions on the penultimate paragraph that one of the interesting things about the census is that for each member of the family, there is a separate line for religion, ethnicity, occupation, and so on.
Naturally enough, I have the feeling that the “head of the family” will dictate what others write on the census form per family, but regardless, if you read the actual census form closer, divergence within the family is an option.
This is actually one the things I hope to measure when the census numbers are in: exactly how much the family members’ demographic statistics deviate from the “family head”.
My main critique in the discussion of the 2014 National Census has been that no one in the international media seems to have anything positive to say about it. There is more than just questions of race on that form.
You know what is funny? Bullet train can, alas, be stopped! Especially with clumsy operator/s.
Eg. that lovely top-dog leader of the CIVILIZED world and the world’s epic DEMOCRACY country dropped (most cowardly one have to add) 6,727,084 tons of bombs between January of 1969 and January of 1973 causing Robert MacNamera estimate of 3.4 million deaths in Vietnam and then they had to slink away like a wounded dog. Good job Americans have no shame. Otherwise the Prozac factory would be looted.
And look how clumsy the Yanks United is against loan man Assad or balding ribbed Putin.
The answer is right in your lines. Greed and depravity are the ones which is to get the people of Burma. Not the Yanks or Chinks.
Yes. There is conspicuous consumption mainly because of the loss of moral and social compass. Like those migrating Canadian geese in a thunderstorm.
The biggest demon the Burmese populace to save themselves from is indeed themselves. Always and always.
Myanmar needs nation-building to define it is to be Myanmar people. Instead of being divisive by tribes and sects, the people need to be united. There should be a vision of a Myanmar dream. For example, I live in the United States and here, the American dream is that it is land of opportunity and that with hard work you can accomplish anything regardless of your background. I think similarly, Myanmar and its people need to develop a vision and shared endeavor that will lead the country to a prosperous future.
It will be difficult but I don’t think it is impossible. If anything, the peace and cooperation between Burmese and and Burmese-Chinese of all religions (Taoists, Confucianists, Mahayana Buddhists, Muslims) and Burmese-Indians (Muslims, Hindus, and Sikhs) shows that it is possible to overcome the racial and religious divide and live in harmony. Similar lessons need to be applied to Rakhine state.
Yes, it is essentially the perennial tradition vs modernity debate.
Since we appear to be heading down the New World Order way, all shades of elites in favour, all following the modern religion of conspicuous consumption, the attendant rise in crime, drugs and depravity as well as the consequent fraying of moral and social fabric will proceed apace.
Almost like trying to stop a bullet train with your bare hands, isn’t it?
If presumably we are relying on the chauvinist militarists that still rule the roost for reconciliation of any sort barring between selfish elites, East, West or indigenous, we are merely pissing in the wind.
The anti-Chinese riots in 1967 happened mainly because Mao wanted to “export” his stupid Cultural Revolution to Burma and the PLA was training the communist insurgents (predecessors of the UWSA)
It’s true though that there are a lot more “successful” Chinese immigrants in Burma (legally or not one will never know) than these “wretched illegal Bengalis”. It’s not just about religion. A lot of Mianmarese think the dark-skinned Bengalis are ugly and so don’t fit in. Just look at the magazines and the entertainment industry to see how Mianmarese believe they should look like: a cross between Chinese and Korean!
This odious affair has now reached a new level of national disgrace with most inhumane sufferings cruelly slowly eked out on real human beings. Showing not only evil-ness and irrational drummed up fear but also stupidity and ignorance on the part of the perpetrators.
Judging by the release of these pictures and intensive chorus of support for the Rohingya in recent times (just words, that’s all), may be the “West” is showing their displeasure that these Burmese Sit-tut thugs they are trying to placate/ suck up/ pamper/ glorify- Thamada Gyi, etc. – to get in the country for free rape of the land are not coming along as predictable or malleable as they thought.
Unfortunately for the people on the ground- in conditions worse than in the Jews’ concentration camps- while the perpetrators are ignorant and stupid and by extension equally evil as the Sit-tut (and their propagandist/ evil-promoter monks), the their own puppeteers (mostly abroad)seem still intent on sacrificing them for their own aim of being that camel in your analogy.
I agree but I think it is possible. For example, there are many Chinese and Indians who also immigrated to Burma. My great-grandparents immigrated from China to Yangon in the early 1900s. Like Rakhine state, there were violent riots in 1967, but relations between Burmese and Burmese-Chinese have improved since then. I think what Myanmar needs to do is to emphasize that sure there are 135 ethnic groups but there are also many non-indigenous ethnic groups such as Tamils, Sikhs, Nepali and Chinese, who are loyal to Myanmar and deserve respect and dignity as equal citizens.
Elephant and the six blind men always applies on all occasions.
Current day description of Burma is what is described by white folks as they see it regardless of old Burmese faint protestation as the Burmese history must be the one written by Furnival, Luke, Taylor, Steinberg, Callanhan and nowadays Ferrelly, etc. most of them non-Burmese speaking. Time does stand still. Unfortunately any description from any little window they see through sticks.
Rangoon, a fishing village populated by Karen and Mon near a jungle pagoda up the hill was simply a trading post of the Raj, with decidedly cosmopolitan flair only tenuously related to the “Burma proper”.
All the excesses and depravity which are now so fashionable and taking pride in is simply a sign of anonymity and total loss of moral compass not surprising as the country is dominated by morally depraved people in various dresses and positions. A time when monks are desperate to be slaves of CIA – off shoots like NED and Gene Sharp classes and Leadership Training and nuns carrying sling-bags and shades are for Women’s liberation. Genuine religion has flown the coop way back.
I also grew up in Rangoon (lived there from 1959-69) but I never “groped” girls and young women during Thingyan or otherwise. It all depends on your upbringing, I guess.
What has either UNFPA or some one who was born in Katmandu first cousin to chairman Mao anything to do with census.
Census is primarily finding out total population and secondarily distribution within a contiguous border of a country.
UNFPA advocate for separation, without even having recognized as one of the 8 ethnic group within Myanmar.
If Matthew Gibbon wish to opine on Citizenship he should, instead of mixing up ethnicity, culture and heritage which are by themselves worthy subjects and unique for Myanmar.
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Pathways to peace in Rakhine State
Even though My Taylor O’Connor demonstrably failed to mention the “international communities” (Plan B’s the West) is part of the manufacturing procvess of not only this horrid humanaterain diasater in the process but many ohers or details like that man used to be called Gambira was simply their own plant who was supposed to have written an article in Washington Post, no less, while he was in the jail (what a fairy tale, if tall) etc, the article in the reference and many similar others prove nothing but a pipe dream of some loose loonies obviously touching the spot of other equal loonies.
Can we really live together?
Many thanks for this, Scot. As a non-Thai reader but someone with skin in the game, as they say, a much appreciated read.
A Malaysian Inquisition?
Brother Ahmad,
You and your fellow supporters define katak bawah tempurung. Bukaklah mata sikit and look around you!!
And please read the responses to your rant…
Uses and Abuses of history: Peter Carey responds
As Dr Carey has chosen not to express any contemporary political views regarding Indonesia’s recent election, which I truly
respect, I will avail myself of the opportunity. I will also address some aspects
of Dr Carey’s prior post, from a more contemporary perspective. I do feel the title
is apt: “Uses and Abuses of History” but perhaps not in the way Dr Carey intended.
Many Indonesians, especially the affluent ones, were expecting the elections to produce a “Indonesian Knight on a Brown Water Buffalo” and many were greatly disturbed, when they did get the buffalo, but not the Indonesian Knight. History is not made by winners or losers, but by academics
(unfortunately). As much as many Indonesians are unable to come to terms with unrealistic expectations about governance, so some of these same Indonesians, have yet to come to terms with historical events, pre-colonial and post-colonial. No one likes to be told ‘bad news’, so I will anyway. The comfort of history, as viewed by Indonesian nationalists and proud citizens, and the all the horrors
of Snouk Hurgronje, make for wonderful recitations of Javanese (and Minang and Batak and all the other contributors to this history) bravery and the incipient development of Indonesia’s independence
and so on and so forth. What Indonesians are less inclined to engage in a national historical dialogue, is what happened in 1963, why it happened, and to whom it happened. Even more so, lest one was led to
believe Merdeka merely happened by Prophetic
dictat or Allah’s graces, not all Indonesians were just sitting around in 1948. As readily as many Indonesians are happy to discuss the role of, and ultimate removal, of the Dutch from their nation, they are equally reticent to discuss the role of the Japanese and the role of Indonesian nationalist-Japanese alliances, in the colonial period. It might be cathartic to hang the Sword of Damocles
over the head of Snouck and other Dutch, and
Jan Pieterszoon Coen (a very very distant relative of mine), makes an attractive target (though a rather distant one), perhaps less cathartic would be an examination of the Indonesian-Japanese relationship in colonial
Indonesia, particularly Japan’s warmongering in Asia, and its rather disingenuous claim, of freeing Asia (or parts thereof) of Western ‘polluting’ influence. Given the treatment of many Chinese, Koreans, Taiwanese
and Southeast Asians by the Japanese war machine, maybe it is time for Indonesians to revisit, a less pleasant past, when native sons collaborated with not so native sons, who’s interests in Indonesia, engendered not only trade, but physical abuse, rape, internment camps, but also collaborations with some well known figures in Indonesian
history. We all have to deal with our own versions of history, some accurate and some
idealised. As this portion of Indonesia’s history, seems to have received less domestic attention, perhaps now is as good a time, as any, that it did.
Myanmar’s unreliable narrators
Hi Matt, hope all is well!
This piece inspired me to re-write this one as almost of something like a respond to your article here: http://www.indopacificreview.com/atheism-myanmar-case-census-question-7/
Note for your questions on the penultimate paragraph that one of the interesting things about the census is that for each member of the family, there is a separate line for religion, ethnicity, occupation, and so on.
Naturally enough, I have the feeling that the “head of the family” will dictate what others write on the census form per family, but regardless, if you read the actual census form closer, divergence within the family is an option.
This is actually one the things I hope to measure when the census numbers are in: exactly how much the family members’ demographic statistics deviate from the “family head”.
My main critique in the discussion of the 2014 National Census has been that no one in the international media seems to have anything positive to say about it. There is more than just questions of race on that form.
Too much demonizing I worry.
The Aceh exception
Excellent analysis. Thank you. Points about PA capture of KIP, POLRI-domestication all tally with what I have witnessed in the field.
Partitioned love in the dirty lake
You know what is funny? Bullet train can, alas, be stopped! Especially with clumsy operator/s.
Eg. that lovely top-dog leader of the CIVILIZED world and the world’s epic DEMOCRACY country dropped (most cowardly one have to add) 6,727,084 tons of bombs between January of 1969 and January of 1973 causing Robert MacNamera estimate of 3.4 million deaths in Vietnam and then they had to slink away like a wounded dog. Good job Americans have no shame. Otherwise the Prozac factory would be looted.
And look how clumsy the Yanks United is against loan man Assad or balding ribbed Putin.
The answer is right in your lines. Greed and depravity are the ones which is to get the people of Burma. Not the Yanks or Chinks.
Yes. There is conspicuous consumption mainly because of the loss of moral and social compass. Like those migrating Canadian geese in a thunderstorm.
The biggest demon the Burmese populace to save themselves from is indeed themselves. Always and always.
Myanmar’s unreliable narrators
Myanmar needs nation-building to define it is to be Myanmar people. Instead of being divisive by tribes and sects, the people need to be united. There should be a vision of a Myanmar dream. For example, I live in the United States and here, the American dream is that it is land of opportunity and that with hard work you can accomplish anything regardless of your background. I think similarly, Myanmar and its people need to develop a vision and shared endeavor that will lead the country to a prosperous future.
Pathways to peace in Rakhine State
It will be difficult but I don’t think it is impossible. If anything, the peace and cooperation between Burmese and and Burmese-Chinese of all religions (Taoists, Confucianists, Mahayana Buddhists, Muslims) and Burmese-Indians (Muslims, Hindus, and Sikhs) shows that it is possible to overcome the racial and religious divide and live in harmony. Similar lessons need to be applied to Rakhine state.
Partitioned love in the dirty lake
Yes, it is essentially the perennial tradition vs modernity debate.
Since we appear to be heading down the New World Order way, all shades of elites in favour, all following the modern religion of conspicuous consumption, the attendant rise in crime, drugs and depravity as well as the consequent fraying of moral and social fabric will proceed apace.
Almost like trying to stop a bullet train with your bare hands, isn’t it?
Pathways to peace in Rakhine State
Manufactured Muslim Threat?
May I advise Mr. Taylor O’Connor to read this Dhaka Tribune’s article at following link.
http://www.dhakatribune.com/op-ed/2014/mar/20/referendum-rakhine-state
Pathways to peace in Rakhine State
If presumably we are relying on the chauvinist militarists that still rule the roost for reconciliation of any sort barring between selfish elites, East, West or indigenous, we are merely pissing in the wind.
Pathways to peace in Rakhine State
The anti-Chinese riots in 1967 happened mainly because Mao wanted to “export” his stupid Cultural Revolution to Burma and the PLA was training the communist insurgents (predecessors of the UWSA)
It’s true though that there are a lot more “successful” Chinese immigrants in Burma (legally or not one will never know) than these “wretched illegal Bengalis”. It’s not just about religion. A lot of Mianmarese think the dark-skinned Bengalis are ugly and so don’t fit in. Just look at the magazines and the entertainment industry to see how Mianmarese believe they should look like: a cross between Chinese and Korean!
Pathways to peace in Rakhine State
The better treatment of the Chinese post 1967 has more to do with political advantage to the regime rather joint schools.
Pathways to peace in Rakhine State
True.
Did you see this?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/world/muslim-rohingya-crisis-worsens-in-burma/2014/04/29/7c31e724-cfc8-11e3-b812-0c92213941f4_gallery.html#item6
This odious affair has now reached a new level of national disgrace with most inhumane sufferings cruelly slowly eked out on real human beings. Showing not only evil-ness and irrational drummed up fear but also stupidity and ignorance on the part of the perpetrators.
Judging by the release of these pictures and intensive chorus of support for the Rohingya in recent times (just words, that’s all), may be the “West” is showing their displeasure that these Burmese Sit-tut thugs they are trying to placate/ suck up/ pamper/ glorify- Thamada Gyi, etc. – to get in the country for free rape of the land are not coming along as predictable or malleable as they thought.
Unfortunately for the people on the ground- in conditions worse than in the Jews’ concentration camps- while the perpetrators are ignorant and stupid and by extension equally evil as the Sit-tut (and their propagandist/ evil-promoter monks), the their own puppeteers (mostly abroad)seem still intent on sacrificing them for their own aim of being that camel in your analogy.
Indelible shame on human kind. All.
Pathways to peace in Rakhine State
I agree but I think it is possible. For example, there are many Chinese and Indians who also immigrated to Burma. My great-grandparents immigrated from China to Yangon in the early 1900s. Like Rakhine state, there were violent riots in 1967, but relations between Burmese and Burmese-Chinese have improved since then. I think what Myanmar needs to do is to emphasize that sure there are 135 ethnic groups but there are also many non-indigenous ethnic groups such as Tamils, Sikhs, Nepali and Chinese, who are loyal to Myanmar and deserve respect and dignity as equal citizens.
Partitioned love in the dirty lake
Elephant and the six blind men always applies on all occasions.
Current day description of Burma is what is described by white folks as they see it regardless of old Burmese faint protestation as the Burmese history must be the one written by Furnival, Luke, Taylor, Steinberg, Callanhan and nowadays Ferrelly, etc. most of them non-Burmese speaking. Time does stand still. Unfortunately any description from any little window they see through sticks.
Rangoon, a fishing village populated by Karen and Mon near a jungle pagoda up the hill was simply a trading post of the Raj, with decidedly cosmopolitan flair only tenuously related to the “Burma proper”.
All the excesses and depravity which are now so fashionable and taking pride in is simply a sign of anonymity and total loss of moral compass not surprising as the country is dominated by morally depraved people in various dresses and positions. A time when monks are desperate to be slaves of CIA – off shoots like NED and Gene Sharp classes and Leadership Training and nuns carrying sling-bags and shades are for Women’s liberation. Genuine religion has flown the coop way back.
Partitioned love in the dirty lake
I also grew up in Rangoon (lived there from 1959-69) but I never “groped” girls and young women during Thingyan or otherwise. It all depends on your upbringing, I guess.
Review of The Birth of Vietnamese Political Journalism
[…] more : New Mandala, […]
Myanmar’s unreliable narrators
What has either UNFPA or some one who was born in Katmandu first cousin to chairman Mao anything to do with census.
Census is primarily finding out total population and secondarily distribution within a contiguous border of a country.
UNFPA advocate for separation, without even having recognized as one of the 8 ethnic group within Myanmar.
If Matthew Gibbon wish to opine on Citizenship he should, instead of mixing up ethnicity, culture and heritage which are by themselves worthy subjects and unique for Myanmar.