“Poor” does need to be defined. The conventional academic money, water supply, house, television, number of telephones, etc., etc. and of course for the country, the most sacred GDP (money) may not necessarily be a good guide even if the whole international academia agree on it.
In other words, U Khin Myint and Daw May Win in Kyaukse living in pitch darkness every night tending their four acre of paddy may simply want to have a cheap loan for a water pump and some excess this year to put their only son into monkhood. Should we then insist that according the Harvard / or ANU for that matter, you guys should have two storied house and ten latrines and five water bores to be up to the level and asked them to go work at the gold mine in Yamethin.
All very well to mould like clay someone or a populace to a person’s or a group of learned people’s shape and form of the ideal statute. The monkey may continue to prefer banana to the Royal Cake even at the risk of indigestion.
The very problem of everyone earning 3000 dollars a year is the unmeasurable s. Social, societal, cultural, familial . And of course environmental. Level of drug use for example.
There is also innate arrogance that the economic development thing is bringing goodness to every one. True only if there is income parity and social stability. For example the parallel thread of Thai economy being resilient on this site is truly wonderful only if that very economy is not based on inhumane exploitation of millions of foreign and domestic workers and even then only if sustainable whichever way the global economic wind blows. Any chance?
It does seems, based on all the thin ice economic skating of the world, that people should think long and hard before they implement their own desired pattern of “economic development” on a society which has for millennium maintained their unique social and cultural integrity and cohesiveness which cannot be reclaimed once lost for the sake of good looking GDP.
All that was needed was the intrusive, destructive and downright evil (was and still is, in spite of international grooviness) military hegemony to be removed and to let the people do what they desire in freedom. Not to have double masters as is the current situation now. The old military stronger and the additional “elites’ prescribing a large dose of their own wonderful medicine.
Hence, please go and ask the people what do they want. Please don’t feed them Royal Cake of desired flavour when they are happy to die dining on Mont-pya-tha-let while keeping their love for each other and closeness unlike Thant Myint-U’s wonderful faux-American Chinese in Yunan.
What is” rich”?
What is “poor”?
Are the people of Burma toys for the academics and elites to play? Dear Adolf did think in the same line.
[…] USD of investments into Cambodia making it the largest investor in the country. China also surpassed Thailand and Vietnam as the biggest investor in Laos last year. Chinese capital is behind several […]
“As one former consultant to the government described it to me last night: ‘The problem is they don’t give a shit about the poor in this country. They don’t even care this much,’ he added, squeezing his finger and thumb to the width of a cigarette paper.”
Prof Dapice’s reference to poor reaches of Java in the early 1970s is sobering. At the same time, it can also be taken as a clear tasking: to do exactly what Moe Aung advocates. A critical mass of Myanmar’s rural people can emerge as significant producers *and* consumers in fairly short order, if resources are allocated and policies framed accordingly. Among other things, those policies need champions among the country’s ex-soldiers, businesspeople, and technocrats. In the case of that third group, however, the jury may still be out.
Few things help people appreciate each other’s efforts more than delicious food, which is at the heart of Thai culture. Thailand produces the best-tasting rice in the world. If a bunch of accountants proposed a reorganisation of the French cheese industry (inevitably it would be along the lines of McDonalds) in order to increase its “productivity”, what would be the reaction? Something like “We fart in your général direction!”, I hope.
Agriculture, agriculture, agriculture… and bridging the urban rural divide, not dislodging farmers from their land to a multitude of sweatshops in Yangon and Mandalay. Build up the domestic economy and consumption based on food production first, and not putting all your investment eggs in the volatile export oriented basket.
Elitist top down measures by diktat lack a proper foundation pointed out here in this excellent analysis by Elliott Prasse-Freeman in Foreign Policy.
In 2007 or 2008 Hla Oo wrote and self-published a very interesting book called “Song For Irrawaddy” a fictionalized semi-auto-biographical novel detailing his horrible experiences of civil war in Kachin State in the early 1970s.
The book was a shocking recall of a 16-years old Burmese boy soldier fighting a brutal race-war where no quarter was expected or given by both sides, namely the Burmese Army and the KIA.
To an acutely observant article and good additional comments, I would add a few things. First, the proximity to China is or can be a two edged sword. While there are obvious negative possibilities, there are also many positive ones – the development of hydro, if done properly, could help end the Kachin insurgency and provide Myanmar with more electricity (which it badly needs) at less cost and more quickly than alternatives. Chinese manufacturing investment, if pollution is controlled, could also provide badly needed jobs and net benefits as well. Second, the author misses just how behind Myanmar is now relative to its neighbors. I saw very poor parts of Java in 1971 and Vietnam in 1989, and Cambodia in 1993 but many parts of Myanmar lag far behind even those places at those times. There is a need to move from an imposed state to a negotiated nation, as well as catching up in so many ways. Third, the millions of Myanmar workers abroad are a critical piece of the development puzzle – Myanmar competes with the Philippines (relative to population) as an exporter of its people. No government will find it easy to handle all of these complicated issues with a thin layer of capable administration. But at least the journey is started.
What you wrote is absolutely true. One has to agree with Joshua Kurlantzick on this. But the liberal in the article may be used loosely and may not mean what you take it.
Unfortunately there is no example of any executive or legislature in any political system going round to get genuine opinion of the people. They form their opinion and then sell it to the people. That’s all. Sell is the catch word. Opinion can be anything.
Only later that these practices come back to bite.
Brave attempt of catalog. Even though titled “political”, as is usual, the article was about financial. (Money) Just as so called the “openings” are opening for business (money), “developments”are various communication, transport, infrastructures and others for money.
Just to add three little elephants.
First little elephant is again usual practice of the “elites” making all the plans and decisions affecting the whole country never bothering to find out what these people might possibly want. See, the tumultuously supporting German public may have entirely different opinion to dear Adolf if one bothered to asked their opinion before his inspiring rhetoric of call to march to hell. One will never know. Neither would what the multitude of today’s Burmese want either. They are so dumb, the elites and Harvard crowd (or is it Columbia/ Oxbridge?) would have to make up their minds for them. After all the brightest financial mind of he world is not to be scoffed at. Look at Europe, euro. Look at Greece.
Second little elephant is military expenditure. If there is so much astonishing “reform” by the “soft liners” (he,he, excuse me) why is the military getting bigger and fighting and killing getting worse? Is the plan to improve more economy with money going into more and more killing? If so, the plan is right on track.
Last elephant is the largest opium and ATS production to distribute all over the world. If one can selectively take away “narco dollars” from the businesses in Burma, most hospitals and banks let alone the restaurants will fall to a heap. Likelihood is that with or without any financial improvement for the country as a whole ( totally unlikely for the majority public) domestic illicit drug market itself will grow exponentially in the next few years may be catching up the avid Thai consumption in no time. That itself will improve the financial sector to a degree.
Agriculture though is of utmost importance. How one deals with it will define future Burma. Current pattern of getting low wage jobs for the illiterate massesunbanning factories with highly efficient mammoth scale high yield mechanized farming will improve the rice exports to far surpass the rest of the world put together with the identity of Burma (Burmeseness) gone along the way. Does anyone really want it? In exchange for big bucks? That can be easily arranged. Simply evict all the farmers to the low wage factories to make socks and soap.
Mega-urbanization. Desired curse! Does anyone go for holiday (vacation if you like) to Maxico city?
I am afraid I have to reproduce your own comment from there as well.
“Looks like the regime has been following to an extent the Israeli model and using ex-army personnel as settlers. King Anawrahta in the 11th century set up a string of garrison towns in the north called kimmyo (lit. sentinel towns) along the frontiers for the defence of his realm against the Kachin, Chin, Ahom and Shan as well as the Chinese. This however is an attempt at subjugating a minority people within the union supposedly founded on the spirit of the 1947 Panglong Agreement to which the Kachin were signatories, happy to trade racial harmony for their own personal wealth.
The military regime’s colonialist strategy of Burmanisation will only succeed in sowing the seeds of further communal strife and may well lead to the Palestine scenario. I doubt it if the Kachin are just going to cave in. A guerilla war of attrition and low intensity conflict will continue which will flare up from time to time for generations to come, a scenario hardly conducive to development and progress.”
That has been precient.
In fact any act which is not done with good will, however cunning and devious it is, is likely to have equal repercussion at a later date. Those are aplenty in Burma of old and now.
Incidentally, there has been notable absence of Burma related posts in New Mandala.
Was there any *human* modal village? Created by Buddhist? Just asking because Buddha teaches humanity, not nationalism and ehnce would not approve of any village/town/ labelled as “Buddhist”.
Jon: I don’t believe we’ve met, but perhaps we should! I’m most grateful for your willingness to speak out. As a result, the jigsaw is taking shape; the reasons why mountains have been moved to try to bury this (and me…) are slowly emerging, but this is the tip of the iceberg.
1. Thai Publica published a comment yesterday regarding Supachai’s academic advisory committee- experts in bees, breast creams, fish population modelling,… but not a single publication between them on the thesis topic…
3. Another blogger asked Supachai to clarify why his thesis claims he got his first degree from Chula’s Faculty of Science? (Chula has refused to disclose this info, so we await the outcome of my appeal to the Office of the Official Information Commission).
4. In regard to your question, I’m not a lawyer, but a University Council resolution seems final enough unless the Admin Court overturns it. The more intriguing question is why did Dr Borwonsak announce that the resolution was not retroactive? The decision has the effect of legitimizing Supachai’s use of the fraudulent degree from 12 May 2008 till 21 June 2012 (e.g. for job applications, pay rises etc.).
5.Then there is the issue of Supachai’s paper in Thai Journal of Ag Science, whose Editor in Chief (Prof Irb Kheoruenromne of Kasetsart) refuses to retract it without a court order (See SciDevNet).
6. Finally, what about Pornchai Rujiprapa Permanent Secretary of MOST, and Chairman of NIA’s Board, who notified me that no disciplinary action would be taken against Supachai on the basis of the Ministry’s own investigation, which upheld 3 of my 5 complaints, whilst reserving judgment on the plagiarism issue and finding no conflict of interest between Supachai and his thesis adviser.
Hla Oo is the person to tell us more about the model villages in Kachin State. You can read his comments #29, 34 and 37 about the pa-la-na (resettlement) villages and the pyithusit (militia) here in a previous thread.
The South African Truth and Reconciliation Committee (TRC) proved to be a disaster, marred by one-sided rulings designed to propagate the interests and myths of the ruling party. At the time they were able to get away with it because of overwhelming international support, as well as a rosy sense of goodwill, hope and optimism for the new “Rainbow Nation”. The reality – like everywhere else in Africa – is proving to be quite different. I was a reporter at The Star, South Africa’s major daily newspaper, for much of the period. For a thorough analysis of the outcomes and achievements of the TRC, I can recommend a book by R.W Johnson, The Times’ correspondent in South Africa for many years, “South Africa’s Brave New World: The Beloved Country Since the End of Apartheid”. http://www.amazon.com/South-Africas-Brave-New-World/dp/B005M4AQKI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341133128&sr=8-1&keywords=R.W+Johnson+beloved+country
Yes; however, as you might guess the whole things reeks of status, the exercise of power and downright stupidity.
Unfortunately, the way this rubbish pans out in everyday working life is simply dangerous.
When I advised the senior staff member of the three – a manager – to speak to her boss about the number of slides, she simply said – and I kid you not – ‘up to her’.
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Intolerance, Islam and the Internet in Burma
U Aung Moe,
Thank you.
Myanmar’s new political-economic contours
Sorry to be a resident spoiler.
“Poor” does need to be defined. The conventional academic money, water supply, house, television, number of telephones, etc., etc. and of course for the country, the most sacred GDP (money) may not necessarily be a good guide even if the whole international academia agree on it.
In other words, U Khin Myint and Daw May Win in Kyaukse living in pitch darkness every night tending their four acre of paddy may simply want to have a cheap loan for a water pump and some excess this year to put their only son into monkhood. Should we then insist that according the Harvard / or ANU for that matter, you guys should have two storied house and ten latrines and five water bores to be up to the level and asked them to go work at the gold mine in Yamethin.
All very well to mould like clay someone or a populace to a person’s or a group of learned people’s shape and form of the ideal statute. The monkey may continue to prefer banana to the Royal Cake even at the risk of indigestion.
The very problem of everyone earning 3000 dollars a year is the unmeasurable s. Social, societal, cultural, familial . And of course environmental. Level of drug use for example.
There is also innate arrogance that the economic development thing is bringing goodness to every one. True only if there is income parity and social stability. For example the parallel thread of Thai economy being resilient on this site is truly wonderful only if that very economy is not based on inhumane exploitation of millions of foreign and domestic workers and even then only if sustainable whichever way the global economic wind blows. Any chance?
It does seems, based on all the thin ice economic skating of the world, that people should think long and hard before they implement their own desired pattern of “economic development” on a society which has for millennium maintained their unique social and cultural integrity and cohesiveness which cannot be reclaimed once lost for the sake of good looking GDP.
All that was needed was the intrusive, destructive and downright evil (was and still is, in spite of international grooviness) military hegemony to be removed and to let the people do what they desire in freedom. Not to have double masters as is the current situation now. The old military stronger and the additional “elites’ prescribing a large dose of their own wonderful medicine.
Hence, please go and ask the people what do they want. Please don’t feed them Royal Cake of desired flavour when they are happy to die dining on Mont-pya-tha-let while keeping their love for each other and closeness unlike Thant Myint-U’s wonderful faux-American Chinese in Yunan.
What is” rich”?
What is “poor”?
Are the people of Burma toys for the academics and elites to play? Dear Adolf did think in the same line.
Chinese merchants of Vientiane
[…] USD of investments into Cambodia making it the largest investor in the country. China also surpassed Thailand and Vietnam as the biggest investor in Laos last year. Chinese capital is behind several […]
Noir nights in Phnom Penh
Link to Alex Watt piece from Khmer440.com asking why most Cambodians are still living in almost total misery and poverty.
http://www.khmer440.com/k/2012/04/cambodia%E2%80%99s-booming-so-why-is-it-the-%E2%80%98least-thriving-country-in-the-world%E2%80%99/
Striking quote at the end of the article:
“As one former consultant to the government described it to me last night: ‘The problem is they don’t give a shit about the poor in this country. They don’t even care this much,’ he added, squeezing his finger and thumb to the width of a cigarette paper.”
Myanmar’s new political-economic contours
Prof Dapice’s reference to poor reaches of Java in the early 1970s is sobering. At the same time, it can also be taken as a clear tasking: to do exactly what Moe Aung advocates. A critical mass of Myanmar’s rural people can emerge as significant producers *and* consumers in fairly short order, if resources are allocated and policies framed accordingly. Among other things, those policies need champions among the country’s ex-soldiers, businesspeople, and technocrats. In the case of that third group, however, the jury may still be out.
University rankings from Chula’s perspective
As of July 3rd:
http://www.nia.or.th/2009/download/aboutus/CV_NIA_Director_Eng.pdf
Peasants and the state
Few things help people appreciate each other’s efforts more than delicious food, which is at the heart of Thai culture. Thailand produces the best-tasting rice in the world. If a bunch of accountants proposed a reorganisation of the French cheese industry (inevitably it would be along the lines of McDonalds) in order to increase its “productivity”, what would be the reaction? Something like “We fart in your général direction!”, I hope.
Myanmar’s new political-economic contours
Agriculture, agriculture, agriculture… and bridging the urban rural divide, not dislodging farmers from their land to a multitude of sweatshops in Yangon and Mandalay. Build up the domestic economy and consumption based on food production first, and not putting all your investment eggs in the volatile export oriented basket.
Elitist top down measures by diktat lack a proper foundation pointed out here in this excellent analysis by Elliott Prasse-Freeman in Foreign Policy.
Intolerance, Islam and the Internet in Burma
In 2007 or 2008 Hla Oo wrote and self-published a very interesting book called “Song For Irrawaddy” a fictionalized semi-auto-biographical novel detailing his horrible experiences of civil war in Kachin State in the early 1970s.
The book was a shocking recall of a 16-years old Burmese boy soldier fighting a brutal race-war where no quarter was expected or given by both sides, namely the Burmese Army and the KIA.
Myanmar’s new political-economic contours
To an acutely observant article and good additional comments, I would add a few things. First, the proximity to China is or can be a two edged sword. While there are obvious negative possibilities, there are also many positive ones – the development of hydro, if done properly, could help end the Kachin insurgency and provide Myanmar with more electricity (which it badly needs) at less cost and more quickly than alternatives. Chinese manufacturing investment, if pollution is controlled, could also provide badly needed jobs and net benefits as well. Second, the author misses just how behind Myanmar is now relative to its neighbors. I saw very poor parts of Java in 1971 and Vietnam in 1989, and Cambodia in 1993 but many parts of Myanmar lag far behind even those places at those times. There is a need to move from an imposed state to a negotiated nation, as well as catching up in so many ways. Third, the millions of Myanmar workers abroad are a critical piece of the development puzzle – Myanmar competes with the Philippines (relative to population) as an exporter of its people. No government will find it easy to handle all of these complicated issues with a thin layer of capable administration. But at least the journey is started.
Southeast Asia’s illiberal regimes
Noah Viernes,
What you wrote is absolutely true. One has to agree with Joshua Kurlantzick on this. But the liberal in the article may be used loosely and may not mean what you take it.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/05/22/bangkok_blues
Unfortunately there is no example of any executive or legislature in any political system going round to get genuine opinion of the people. They form their opinion and then sell it to the people. That’s all. Sell is the catch word. Opinion can be anything.
Only later that these practices come back to bite.
Cambodia and South Africa
What was the alternative to the truth and reconciliation commission?
Myanmar’s new political-economic contours
Thanks for that, Ohn. And, yes, it is *small-holder* agriculture that Myanmar needs to “get moving”.
Myanmar’s new political-economic contours
Brave attempt of catalog. Even though titled “political”, as is usual, the article was about financial. (Money) Just as so called the “openings” are opening for business (money), “developments”are various communication, transport, infrastructures and others for money.
Just to add three little elephants.
First little elephant is again usual practice of the “elites” making all the plans and decisions affecting the whole country never bothering to find out what these people might possibly want. See, the tumultuously supporting German public may have entirely different opinion to dear Adolf if one bothered to asked their opinion before his inspiring rhetoric of call to march to hell. One will never know. Neither would what the multitude of today’s Burmese want either. They are so dumb, the elites and Harvard crowd (or is it Columbia/ Oxbridge?) would have to make up their minds for them. After all the brightest financial mind of he world is not to be scoffed at. Look at Europe, euro. Look at Greece.
Second little elephant is military expenditure. If there is so much astonishing “reform” by the “soft liners” (he,he, excuse me) why is the military getting bigger and fighting and killing getting worse? Is the plan to improve more economy with money going into more and more killing? If so, the plan is right on track.
Last elephant is the largest opium and ATS production to distribute all over the world. If one can selectively take away “narco dollars” from the businesses in Burma, most hospitals and banks let alone the restaurants will fall to a heap. Likelihood is that with or without any financial improvement for the country as a whole ( totally unlikely for the majority public) domestic illicit drug market itself will grow exponentially in the next few years may be catching up the avid Thai consumption in no time. That itself will improve the financial sector to a degree.
Agriculture though is of utmost importance. How one deals with it will define future Burma. Current pattern of getting low wage jobs for the illiterate massesunbanning factories with highly efficient mammoth scale high yield mechanized farming will improve the rice exports to far surpass the rest of the world put together with the identity of Burma (Burmeseness) gone along the way. Does anyone really want it? In exchange for big bucks? That can be easily arranged. Simply evict all the farmers to the low wage factories to make socks and soap.
Mega-urbanization. Desired curse! Does anyone go for holiday (vacation if you like) to Maxico city?
Intolerance, Islam and the Internet in Burma
Thank you U Moe Aung.
I am afraid I have to reproduce your own comment from there as well.
“Looks like the regime has been following to an extent the Israeli model and using ex-army personnel as settlers. King Anawrahta in the 11th century set up a string of garrison towns in the north called kimmyo (lit. sentinel towns) along the frontiers for the defence of his realm against the Kachin, Chin, Ahom and Shan as well as the Chinese. This however is an attempt at subjugating a minority people within the union supposedly founded on the spirit of the 1947 Panglong Agreement to which the Kachin were signatories, happy to trade racial harmony for their own personal wealth.
The military regime’s colonialist strategy of Burmanisation will only succeed in sowing the seeds of further communal strife and may well lead to the Palestine scenario. I doubt it if the Kachin are just going to cave in. A guerilla war of attrition and low intensity conflict will continue which will flare up from time to time for generations to come, a scenario hardly conducive to development and progress.”
That has been precient.
In fact any act which is not done with good will, however cunning and devious it is, is likely to have equal repercussion at a later date. Those are aplenty in Burma of old and now.
Incidentally, there has been notable absence of Burma related posts in New Mandala.
Intolerance, Islam and the Internet in Burma
To post # 149
Was there any *human* modal village? Created by Buddhist? Just asking because Buddha teaches humanity, not nationalism and ehnce would not approve of any village/town/ labelled as “Buddhist”.
University rankings from Chula’s perspective
Jon: I don’t believe we’ve met, but perhaps we should! I’m most grateful for your willingness to speak out. As a result, the jigsaw is taking shape; the reasons why mountains have been moved to try to bury this (and me…) are slowly emerging, but this is the tip of the iceberg.
1. Thai Publica published a comment yesterday regarding Supachai’s academic advisory committee- experts in bees, breast creams, fish population modelling,… but not a single publication between them on the thesis topic…
3. Another blogger asked Supachai to clarify why his thesis claims he got his first degree from Chula’s Faculty of Science? (Chula has refused to disclose this info, so we await the outcome of my appeal to the Office of the Official Information Commission).
4. In regard to your question, I’m not a lawyer, but a University Council resolution seems final enough unless the Admin Court overturns it. The more intriguing question is why did Dr Borwonsak announce that the resolution was not retroactive? The decision has the effect of legitimizing Supachai’s use of the fraudulent degree from 12 May 2008 till 21 June 2012 (e.g. for job applications, pay rises etc.).
5.Then there is the issue of Supachai’s paper in Thai Journal of Ag Science, whose Editor in Chief (Prof Irb Kheoruenromne of Kasetsart) refuses to retract it without a court order (See SciDevNet).
6. Finally, what about Pornchai Rujiprapa Permanent Secretary of MOST, and Chairman of NIA’s Board, who notified me that no disciplinary action would be taken against Supachai on the basis of the Ministry’s own investigation, which upheld 3 of my 5 complaints, whilst reserving judgment on the plagiarism issue and finding no conflict of interest between Supachai and his thesis adviser.
Intolerance, Islam and the Internet in Burma
Hla Oo is the person to tell us more about the model villages in Kachin State. You can read his comments #29, 34 and 37 about the pa-la-na (resettlement) villages and the pyithusit (militia) here in a previous thread.
Cambodia and South Africa
The South African Truth and Reconciliation Committee (TRC) proved to be a disaster, marred by one-sided rulings designed to propagate the interests and myths of the ruling party. At the time they were able to get away with it because of overwhelming international support, as well as a rosy sense of goodwill, hope and optimism for the new “Rainbow Nation”. The reality – like everywhere else in Africa – is proving to be quite different. I was a reporter at The Star, South Africa’s major daily newspaper, for much of the period. For a thorough analysis of the outcomes and achievements of the TRC, I can recommend a book by R.W Johnson, The Times’ correspondent in South Africa for many years, “South Africa’s Brave New World: The Beloved Country Since the End of Apartheid”.
http://www.amazon.com/South-Africas-Brave-New-World/dp/B005M4AQKI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341133128&sr=8-1&keywords=R.W+Johnson+beloved+country
University rankings from Chula’s perspective
Shanetarr ^
Yes; however, as you might guess the whole things reeks of status, the exercise of power and downright stupidity.
Unfortunately, the way this rubbish pans out in everyday working life is simply dangerous.
When I advised the senior staff member of the three – a manager – to speak to her boss about the number of slides, she simply said – and I kid you not – ‘up to her’.
Good grief.
Explanations anyone?