Comments

  1. JR says:

    jonfernquest and Murray –

    I too have enjoyed this discussion. Thank you. It has given me food for thought.

    The dissertation I was thinking of was Somboon Siriprachai’s “Control and Rent Seeking: The Role of the State in the Thai Cassava Industry.” It is difficult to get a hold of, but it has a very good discussion on policy-making in Thai agriculture (although it is a bit dated). Somboon was an economics professor at Thammasat University; I believe he wrote on rice policies as well. I apologize I couldn’t recall the reference off the top of my head earlier.

    As for lower rice yields in Thailand (and other Southeast Asian countries), I don’t know if small-holding can really be blamed. Otherwise Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan would be expected to have lower yields. Instead those countries have average yields at between 6 and 7 tons/Ha.

    My opinion is that the policy framework (markets, ministry involvement, price controls/guarantees, and farmer education and agriculture extension) is more of a problem. Some policies create disincentives and obstacles for farmers to increase their yields rather than encourage increased production. This seems similar to what Murray indicates occurs in Malaysia.

    About data availability in Thailand, I think a great deal is available, but it is difficult to sift through. Surveys done from year to year don’t necessarily collect the same data, and (most frustratingly for data compilation) village labels used in reports can change from year to year. Data code books are not always clear, either. If you read Thai it is much easier, but still a struggle.

  2. Roy Anderson says:

    Sorry that I cannot answer every comment here but my computer has been playing up again.
    Aung Moe,
    As the dispute has been settled for the time being I suppose you are happy that the workers got screwed fof profit. You quoted General motors as an example of Union Power. I MUST point out that the problems at GM were caused by very bad management and had nothing to do with their labour. The managment were complacent and forgot to invest in the future in time. Gas guzzlers on a production line is stupid and out of date. Tax payers money was used to keep the company afloat.
    On another point, where have you actually seen socialism at work or have you swallowed all the propaganda comming out of the USA?
    Sorry to divest from this important strike but I felt that Aung Moe’s comments could not go unanswered.

  3. Greg Lopez says:

    It will be interesting to see how the People’s Action Party handles this – not only for domestic purposes but in positioning Singapore as a global hub.

  4. Jon Wright says:

    Yes, thank you Peppi

  5. Mr Damage says:

    If you are rich you can do as you want in most countries where a fawning bureaucracy and police eager for financial advancement look the other way (Australia except at State level is still mostly OK). Anyone else ever notice how every time, without exception, where there is corruption it always involves a politician or public servant? We actually pay these people to corrupt our system of law.

    Not to belittle the tragedy of the innocent victims but at least this guy had the decency to die, being a Bankster from the new aristocratic class he gets a free pass, and so spared the government the financially rewarding but embarrassing task of having to let him off on some technicality.

    Recently a US Bankster got released free of charges for killing someone, money talks, and 99% of us don’t even have a grasp of the basics of that alphabet.

  6. ThailandWatcher says:

    The CP has been sent to attend Queen Elizabeth’s Jubilee celebrations. Prince Andrew attended the reverse fixture.

    NNT also state that he’s accompanied by Princess Srirasmi – they don’t state whether they made the trip from Bangkok together or met up en-route.

  7. Peppy says:

    John Wright #1

    That particular phrase has been around a lot longer than Sek Loso… he just based a song on it.

  8. jonfernquest says:

    “Cassava production in Thailand” was a good hint, yielding immediate background info with one web search: Evolution and organization of cassava value chains… (2010) Julia Tijaja, Development Policy and Practice, the Open University, UK. Agricultural policy is of such importance to the Thai economy and the issues of inequality that red-shirts in particular are concerned with, yet seems to attract little interest, strange.

    JR: “…the Thai bureaucracy is where most agricultural policy is made. This is due to the fact that the cabinet and parliament are rarely the source of specific policies – instead they provide a great deal of latitude to the Ministry of Agriculture (along with other ministries) to develop on-the-ground policies. For example, the country is still using irrigation law from 1932 as water law revisions have failed to get through the legislative process. Thus the Royal Irrigation Department has a free hand to determine water policies, as long as they don’t run afoul the constitution (or a flood). I personally think that this approach is part of the reason why the average Thai rice yield (2.9 tons/Ha) is much lower than the world average (4 tons/Ha) and lower than its neighbors.”

    Wonder how much objective academic outsider study of irrigation and the rice sector has been done or whether the whole thing is just untransparent with bureaucratic walls around it and therefore not studiable or researchable. With all the non-transparencies in current rice policy this would seem to be the case.

    Low productivity must be related to high small-holder participation motivated by equity rather efficiency. Agribusiness and large plantations would no doubt raise productivity but go against the longstanding smallholder policy/philosophy of the government (always expressed, by for example ministers interviewed in newspaper articles, as protecting smallholder Thai rice farmers from foreign intrusion, which seems more ideology than reality since there must be large-holder Thai cultivators in the rice sector).

    Wonder if extensive stats are publicly available for irrigation and production and if they’ve been used in microeconomic level analysis of productivity, if not then this has surely been done in China and India (will have to look into this). Thanks for thought-stimulating discussion 🙂

  9. Shwe Phou Phou says:

    Stephen,

    I am saddened by the recent developments you disclosed but it is what I predicted would happened.

    The employers agrees to something in writing but the terms of the agreement can only be enforced through another strike. It can become an endless cycle until the company is able to purge the ranks all the strike supporters and strike leaders until no one dares to question the company’s authority.

    The only actions that have appeared to have much impact on the garment industry is to run campaigns against the company sourcing the products. The ‘Clean Clothes Campaign’ is one such organisation. The ILO had a ‘Better Factories’ project in Cambodia to improve working conditions for garment workers. Not sure if it is still up and running or not.

    If these companies are sourcing for the US market, then another possible pressure point is to expose labour rights violations . In such a case, Thailand could lose its rights under the GSP for imports into the US.

    I was involved in organizing garment workers on Saipan in the late 1990’s. Most of the companies were from mainland China and S. Korea and they treated their workers like dirt. Had to go to court just to stop the practice of the companies locking the workers in their living compounds at night.

    Thank you for your recent comments and updated information on the struggle. I know the issue of the ‘wildcat’ was a bit of a rabbit trail but I do think avoiding the word is the best avenue.

    Kind regards.

  10. John Grima says:

    Stephen,
    Please stay with the story. Who gets paid what, who gets fired and hired, what work gets transferred where, what happens to workers and compensation in related work sites in geographically and economically contiguous markets, the details of what happens and how it connects to other things that happen and don’t.

    Margaret Boo’s book on Mumbai slums … not a lot of solidarity among the scrambling classes. What’s a post-Marxian theoretical point of view on when workers are willing to strike and why they succeed? Is there a predicted outcome for this job-action wildcatty thing that we are following through your reporting and research? What are the factors that you would invoke in making that prediction?

    Thank you.

  11. Stephen. says:

    UPDATE:

    Thurs. 17 May: The supervisor of the knitting department was fired. He and the workers believe it’s because he sided with the workers in the recent strike. About 140 workers in his department gathered to collectively demand his reinstatement. Their demand was not granted.

    Fri. 18 May: Workers went to work for the 8:00 am shift. They again demanded the reinstatement of the knitting department supervisor. Their demand was rejected. The workers then asked to know the piece rate they’ll be paid on the new order that began on 16 May, which they hadn’t yet been told. With the negotiated increase of 20% the piece rate should have gone up from 165 baht to 198 baht. The manager would not tell them the piece rate and the workers would not work. At 1:00 pm when the workers went back to the production floor they were told the piece rate would be 165 baht (i.e. the old rate). So the workers refused to work.

    Sat. 18 May: The last I’ve heard, the manger has told the workers that their Burmese language translation of the work contract that was negotiated at the LPO (originally written only in Thai) is not correct.

    * * *

    And in response to various commentators: 1) Debating the definition of “wildcat” seems to me not the most pressing issue; I’ll gladly refrain from using it in the future to avoid confusion; 2) I agree with Shwe Phou Phou’s comment that “there needs to be more broad based organising”; 3) regarding Aung Moe’s comment that “socialism is evil”, which he bases on his first 30 years in Burma, insofar as socialism entails workers’ directly democratic self-management over their immediate means of production, there never was any socialism in Burma (or, for that matter, in the USSR, China, Cuba or Vietnam, etc.).

  12. Ralph Kramden says:

    It is a rather odd to be arguing about what happens in Mae Sot and using US legislation and court decisions as a basis for that. It seems to me that “wildcat” has different meanings in different contexts. In Mae Sot, if the US legislation is considered, can you think of a strike there that would have legal meaning in the US? It seems to me that the use of “wildcat” in Mae Sot is describing a spontaneous industrial action.

    And, on US definitions: that must be Moe Aung’s use on “liberal Socialist”, which is novel, if odd in most other parts of the “free world”. Wake me up when we get to 1989….

  13. Shan says:

    I remember how the first wave of (largely blue-collar) PRC expats in Singapore, grateful for the opportunity to be there and trying to blend in, was by and large the most welcome immigrant group in public sentiment.
    Then the PRC tourists arrived en masse in the mid-00s and more and more Singaporeans began to frown upon the crude behavior and anarchy of their mainland brethren.
    It is almost inevitable that the new (legally) wealthy PRC expats, too confident and too excited to “behave”, won’t draw the ire of the public eye.

    (Burning glass perception 101…think how public sentiment in Thailand would have been whipped up had the Porsche driver of the recent BKK tollway accident been a foreigner…)

    However, there are forces at work that aim to re-design Singapore to become an Asian Monaco? Luxembourg? Dubai? Bermuda? and this will come with plenty of creeping divisiveness and more spectacular casualties.

  14. Moe Aung says:

    I’m grateful to everyone for all the local knowledge/info and global perspective.

    Aung Moe’s explicit faith in laissez faire capitalism is touching but I agree with Roy that he overlooks the small matter of the trade cycles. Competition among the bosses for labour happens only in boom time, but the real competition is not so much in recruiting as in cutting costs where layoffs are the norm which happens big time during recessions. Capitalism has always depended on a vast army of unemployed to remain in pole position.

    Pleased to learn that orgnisations like Yaung Chi Oo and JACBA are there in Mae Sot even if there exist no trade unions as such. Forget Thein Sein fighting for workers’ rights anywhere; it’s like expecting the fox to look after the chicken. You only need to look at what’s been happening at Hlaing Tharyar in Yangon. At least thanks to the new democratic pretensions they now enjoy the right to form a union.

    Internationalism historically, because of ethnic, religious, regional and occupational divides, has been very hard to achieve, even solidarity across the board within the borders of one country for that matter. But ultimately workers must strive towards this one strategic goal if they are to fight capitalist globalisation effectively. The other side managed to transcend by the greed and profits incentive all these divides in the aftermath of WWII.

  15. Aung Moe says:

    Dear Shwe Phou,

    I am now 60 years old and I’ve lived in Burma my first 30 years and the rest in the free world or the so-called Capitalist Countries like USA.

    Trust me Socialism is evil and it’s only another nice-enough name for the Communism. That ideology never works as it didn’t work and it never will, period.

    Capitalism or the private ownership of means of production is the normal course for a human society. And the rest like Socialism are just radical ideology but its proponents like to rename it Progressive ideology.

    For me all that is just Horse Manure!

  16. JR says:

    Murray Hunter,

    Thanks for the comments. As you note, the Thai bureaucracy is where most agricultural policy is made. This is due to the fact that the cabinet and parliament are rarely the source of specific policies – instead they provide a great deal of latitude to the Ministry of Agriculture (along with other ministries) to develop on-the-ground policies. For example, the country is still using irrigation law from 1932 as water law revisions have failed to get through the legislative process. Thus the Royal Irrigation Department has a free hand to determine water policies, as long as they don’t run afoul the constitution (or a flood).

    I personally think that this approach is part of the reason why the average Thai rice yield (2.9 tons/Ha) is much lower than the world average (4 tons/Ha) and lower than its neighbors.

    As I noted earlier, I don’t know the Malay set-up very well, so I appreciate your insights. It is interesting after the Malay government’s ability to upgrade in so many products (rubber for example), that they haven’t been able to exhibit much innovation in rice production. You seem to indicate some negative incentives in the Bumiputra policies and in the rice buyer laws, which would certainly run counter to individual farmer innovation. What about how the civil service acts itself? Is there much innovation going on there?

    Like you said, the ASEAN efforts will certainly run into a number of obstacles.

    Jonfernquest – I don’t know of any bibliography that puts together all of the agriculture policy work in the region. Most of the dissertations I am familiar with are single country studies on a single sector (i.e. cassava production in Thailand; irrigation in the Philippines).

  17. […] massive demonstrations in Kuala Lumpur on 28 April organised by Bersih, a civil society coalition for clean and fair elections, may have thrown a […]

  18. Shwe Phou Phou says:

    Dennis,

    Please see the following. The NLRA, Taft-Hartley, or the LMRDA do not specifically mention wildcat strikes. Its status has been defined in the courts. Hope this put this issue to rest once and for all. Thanks.

    —————————-

    When employees join a union, they give the union the right to collectively bargain with their employers concerning the terms and conditions of work. Since the passage in 1932 of the Norris-Laguardia Act (29 U.S.C.A. ┬з 101 et seq.), employees have had the right to strike for the purpose of demanding concessions from their employers. When employees go on strike without union authorization, however, their action is called a wildcat strike. Federal courts have held that wildcat strikes are illegal under the Wagner Act (National Labor Relations Act of 1935 [29 U.S.C.A. ┬з 151 et seq.]), and employees may be discharged by their employers for participating in wildcat strikes.
    A wildcat strike brings into conflict sections 7 and 9(a) of the Wagner Act. Section 7 protects employees who bargain collectively and engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of Collective Bargaining. Section 9(a) states that representatives chosen for the purpose of collective bargaining shall be the exclusive representatives of all the employees in that bargaining unit. Because wildcat strikers engage in concerted activity without the authorization of their union, they appear to be both protected because of section 7 and unprotected because of section 9(a). The critical issue is whether the wildcat strikers should be protected to the same extent as strikers authorized by the union, or whether their activity is unprotected because of the exclusivity principle behind section 9(a).
    The Supreme Court ruled in Emporium Capwell Co. v. Western Addition Community Organization, 420 U.S. 50, 95 S. Ct. 977, 43 L. Ed. 2d 12 (1975) that when wildcat strikers bargain separately, they are not protected by the Wagner Act. Most lower courts have applied Emporium Capwell broadly, holding that all wildcat strikers are unprotected. Therefore, even when wildcat strikers have not attempted to bargain separately, the majority rule is that the strike is unprotected activity.
    Ordinarily a wildcat strike constitutes a violation of an existing collective bargaining contract, so the strikes are not protected unless the whole union joins them and ratifies the protest. The union may, however, discipline its members for participating in a wildcat strike and impose fines.

  19. Dennis Arnold says:

    It’s not worth a drawn out debate, but wildcat strikes are part and parcel of labor legislation in the US. The Taft-Hardy Act of 1947, an amendment of the National Labor Relations Act of 1935, bans wildcat strikes. The NLRA defines wildcat strikes as you use the term. The Hardy Act was a critical move in the elimination of radical and progressive ‘elements’ in the US labor movement, by those in favor of the Fordist-Keynesian labor accord. Trade unionists and activists in Asia also use the term to refer to strikes that you would not consider wildcat, but it’s an incorrect use of this American term, fair enough.

  20. Jon Wright says:

    > “р╕нр╕бр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕▓р╕Юр╕╣р╕Фр╕Бр╣Зр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Ар╕Кр╕╖р╣Ир╕н”

    I knew that sounded familiar. Author must be a Loso fan:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbO73h5MHgs