Would you please post a link to the Youtube video?
It seems that anyone wanting to establish credibility by citing a video is doing themselves an enormous disservice by making it so difficult for others to track down said video.
Excellent, excellent, excellent book & review !!! Will look for at Kinokuniya today.
Nice call for future work:
“…the primary and secondary data that Holt has collected lack sufficient relevant detail to flesh out the creative ambition of his central argument. Without enough ethnographic or historical engagement to sustain the specifics of its thesis… these essays are in many ways inspiring. …however, they make for a book that is not completely satisfying.”
“A survey of 100 novices resident in the city’s temples tells us much about their social origins, aspirations and, in particular, their interactions with tourists. But why not include some survey questions about their attitudes toward the basic cosmological issues that are the book’s primary concern? A good number of these young novices are interested in pursuing a career in business, and I wonder what supernatural connections they will be cultivating in their pursuit of modernity and prosperity.”
Is it true the M79 round that killed the army Colonel and soldiers was actually an accidental discharge of the M79 weapon by a soldier in that group? The video on youtube confirms this: if so, is this the reason the “black shirts” have never been arrested and subsequent enquires have never been made public?
Charles, just some quick points. Gaddafi’s PhD wasn’t in economics. And also, since when does a degree, famous or otherwise, attribute the holder with virtue? Plenty of very intelligent people are morally bankrupt. What you’ve written mostly seems like a diatribe against those institutions because you resent not being in the mix with power!
Adam said:
For all your responses, I have replies as well but I guess you would also have counter-points too. So, at a certain point in any discussion, we have to agree to disagree and adopt the sensible position of ” unto you your belief and unto me, mine”.
Pak Yehs reply :
That is a convenient escape button you pressed.
The truth is you don’t have an answer. The Bible Laws including not eating pork and circumcision are a covenants with the Lord.
Jesus never said, not to obey the laws. On Mary Madelene’s case, it was not breaking the law but looking for loopholes in the law.Jesus himself said he did not come to break laws but to improve on them.
That is my understanding of Jesus “way”.
A man of god would admit their mistakes, not cover it up with excuses.
Adam said :
Until the next time we “cross swords” again, take care.
Pak Yehs reply :
I believe “cross words” would be a better phrase instead of “cross swords”.
Jesus way is of total nonviolence. It is an impossible task though, but we must try our best. May Allah help us.
Peace/Salam.
Tul’s comments make the myopia and double standards on display in this standoff very clear.
“My hatred towards Thaksin is logical and reasonable” – Hatred reasonable? Hatred logical?
“Thaksin is destroying Thai society and deepening the divide. … Thaksin exploits the differences within Thai society for his own political gains.” – he is alone in this?
Neo 99 – Perhaps because it is banned in Siam you have not red the book , but I guess most NM folk have and I would agree with comments I have read that “The King Never Smiles” is a scholarly substantial biography. I felt that Handley was not particularly critical of HM. Perhaps if written after the Wikileaks revelations, thanks to Brad some say, it would have been more so.
What a well articulated article, highlighting the desperate essentials that encompass the very basic to the higher order needs to a better Myanmar’s citizenry future.
Thank you for delineating Ne Win isolationist period that dismissed and dispersed the Know-How that were educated in all necessary fields by the West through exchanges and the subsequent very West over zealous effort to punish SPDC set back at least 5 more generations of will be Know-How.
The good news is the frameworks for every aspect to a democratic Myanmar is still intact.
And desperately asking to be strengthen and be applied effectively.
Whether in Law/Education, Economics, Medicine and other essentials toward a vibrant citizenry in every respect.
The past policy of the West is what shaped Myanmar towards present quagmire.
Repeat or prolonging the same mistake might permanently destroy those very framework.
Without which N. Korean like destiny await.
Especially now that N Korean know and willing to persuade Myanmar to be their main resource in every respect, in order to continue their very best at being N. Korea.
Nganadeeleg the king has met all past three prime minsters and those who came before them and given them all advice. What that advice is , is between him and them and it could be anything. Most likely it was something very right wing and high in Buddhist principles As for what his daughter said she could be telling the truth. Then again, Wikleaks has reveled that the king suffers from depression and Parkinson’s disease None of his kids have mentioned that. The recent floods did nothing to help with that, I think that she said what she said, to give supporters of the king the comfort that he was alright and still in the get go of things.
Then again as you said I am not in the know, none of us are. Still that hasn’t stopped people from making a lots of harsh judgements. I think that someone should write a nice factual account of the king’s reign without any bias or emotion attached to it , no one’s done that yet and until someone does, I feel that there will never be a true account of his reign or even who he really is. I think the king should have written a Autobiography about his life, when his mind was still whole. Instead of writing that really weird book about his dog. I think it would have been good for him to explain things from his point of view, it was a golden opportunity and he just let it pass by.
For all your responses, I have replies as well but I guess you would also have counter-points too. So, at a certain point in any discussion, we have to agree to disagree and adopt the sensible position of ” unto you your belief and unto me, mine”.
This discussion has gone on long enough. I must say it is quite illuminating to know your views on Christianity and whilst I try to change your strong views to make you understand our stand-point, I must admit it is difficult. But, there will be other opportunities in other articles and forums. Until the next time we “cross swords” again, take care.
“One more thing, do you honestly think that King could rule over Thailand for 66 years and not develop some sort of love for the people.”
He might. Or he might think they are like his family and not be close to any of them and even hate some.
I also wonder about the “tragic life” – most of the tragedies appear to be of his own making. That he has reigned while the aura of the monarchy has been restored (for a time) and his CPB has accumulated oodles of assets and become horrendously wealthy may turn out to be his greatest “achievements.”
Neo 99: You seem to be contradicting HRH Princess Chulabhorn who said the King follows the news, is “attentive”, “gives orders” etc.
Also, both the current and previous PM’s are seen to have been “granted an audience” and to have been “given advice” by HMK.
Something just doesn’t add up, and until it does, it will be hard for people ‘not in the know’ to make any worthwhile judgement.
An LSE PhD in Economics is now just another commodity to be bought and sold by political families as we learned with the arrest of Gadaffi’s son.
The reputation for the Oxford PPE is going the same way with current holders such as Abhisit and Cameron representing the educated elite. Can he reassure the Thai electorate that it wasn’t just another purchased elite education certificate by explaining the difference between Athenian Democracy and Thai Democracy.
This is a basic question that any authentic PPE holder would be able to0 explain and indeed have an interesting political viewpoint on.
@Neo 99
>”First of all, he’s never put anyone in jail, that’s no how that screwed up law works. The people put each other in jail, for supposedly insulting him.”
-I am afraid you have to view the whole matter in a wider context. You are right that he did not personally put anyone in jail. However, it was him who gave assent to lese majeste law, isn’t it? Had he refused to sign, this vile law would never be in place. In my opinion, if you propagandalise yourself every day until people are ready to kill others who do not like you, then you assent to this vile law that allows anyone to report anyone who criticises you to be jailed, then that is akin to you jailing others yourself. If you think I am wrong I would love to hear your explanation.
“Also I see no evidence that he supported that massacre.”
-Again, you have to view the whole matter in a wider context. It would be impossible for the TV to televise him giving direct order to support it. You have to think, “who came out and kill the Red Shirts?” The answer is the “the Army”. Then you would have to ask yourself, then who has the power to stop the army from doing this? Who has the DUTY to stop the army from doing this? The answer….go read the Constitution, section 10, it states “the King is the commander of the Thai army”. So he is the person who is responsible, and is able, to stop this whole thing. And he chose not to do anything after he realised that his army is committing crimes against humanity. So I was correct that he supported, or at least acquiesced to the massacre.
“As for the King from what I understand he was partially on his death bed at this point. A frail old man, with more health problems than I can count. Sounds like a real villain. Honestly do you think he knew the full extent of what was going on, if he did he most likely would have had a heart attack and died.”
-Assuming that he is about to die like you said (which I disagree…but anyway), then have not you heard the word “abdication”? If he fully realises he cannot assume full responsibility, it is only responsible and correct that he gives his title to someone else who has the ability to do his job.
“Also his Commander of Thai military rank is a purely ceremonial one, maybe at one time it wasn’t but not anymore.”
-Where is your source? Any academic viewpoint to support this? If not, you have no right to make this assertion. Furthermore, I would like to ask you, assuming that what you said is really true, that if the King comes out and tell the Army to stop killing on TV, would they disobey him, given how influential he is in Thailand at the moment? The answer is likely to be no. If he really wants to stop, he can. But he didn’t.
“One more thing, do you honestly think that King could rule over Thailand for 66 years and not develop some sort of love for the people. After being loved by so many of them so much?”
-Well, Kim Jong Il had not really done many things positive about North Korea. But with daily propaganda and massive brainwashing, you still see ignorant North Koreans weeping when he dies. Have you been to Thailand? Have you ever seen the amount of propaganda on TV about King B? If you have seen it, you know why many Thais are still fanatical to him (fortunately I am not one of them).
I would not make comment about what the Red Shirts have done or what the Yellow Shirts have done. The only thing I would say to you is whatever they have done, the Army has NO RIGHT to shoot them down. So you can never try to BS your way through to justify the massacre. Because you can’t. Don’t even try. I only read your nonsensical, groundless justification for the army for the few sentences and I stopped reading when you said the Army was “so pissed off with the Red Shirts that they wouldn’t listen if anyone would try to stop them”. That is not a justification. Try arguing this point in the US Courts and the Judge is likely to tell you to stop talking, or the polite one may allow you to finish your speech, yet they do not take your speech into consideration anyway when they make the judgment. Because it is a blatant crimes against humanity. Nothing can justify it.
Okay CT, let me try to address all your points. First of all, he’s never put anyone in jail, that’s no how that screwed up law works. The people put each other in jail, for supposedly insulting him. He most likely never gave this much thought, since before the coup there were only around five cases a year and I think most people didn’t serve the full sentences anyway. In 20o2 and there were none, at this point he’s so old and out of it, he doesn’t even know how bad it’s gotten. Although since 2011 the number of LM cases has dropped by a good amount.
Also I see no evidence that he supported that massacre. Then again, I hesitate to call that a massacre, since I read plenty of reports from reporters from my country who were there as it was happening. The Red shirts were firing grandees and other other bombs at them, before the soldiers even did anything. They damaged a lot of property and went on homophobic and xenophobic rants. They are not the saints that people make them out to be. They were given a golden offer from PM Abhisit Vejjajiva for him to resign in just a few months and for elections to be instantly held when that happened. If they had just said yes so much bloodshed could have been avoided.
Also the people of Bangkok gave these Red shirts no support, they just ignored them and went on with their lives. As for the King from what I understand he was partially on his death bed at this point. A frail old man, with more health problems than I can count. Sounds like a real villain. Honestly do you think he knew the full extent of what was going on, if he did he most likely would have had a heart attack and died. Also his Commander of Thai military rank is a purely ceremonial one, maybe at one time it wasn’t but not anymore. Also given how pissed off and scared the soldiers where, I don’t think they would have listen to anyone at that point. The Thai army is not that will trained and there handling of this situation shows that. In the end there is not a single real piece of evidence that he gave any real sort of kill order , he may not have not even known how many people got killed until this whole event was over and his health was better. Wither he supports the military’s decision, I have no idea and honestly I don’t care because I am sure there are a lot of people in Bangkok who support what the military did. I’ll address all your other points later when I have more time, but I will say that history is the best judge of all because it judges with just facts and without any bias. Which you seem to have a lot of , although I don’t see how anything the King’s done has made your life worse. In fact at this time everything is fine now and will remain that way as long as both the Yellow shirts and the Red Shirts don’t stage any major protests. Both of these groups are crazy and should bare the real blame for all that has happened.
One more thing, do you honestly think that King could rule over Thailand for 66 years and not develop some sort of love for the people. After being loved by so many of them so much? Unless he’s a sociopath,I don’t think that’s possible. Since he hasn’t given any of the signs of being one, just me I know those signs well. As I said before I will address your other points, but I am very tight on time so it may take a few days.
a. Genocide of the Kachin will never happen however hard the regime with China’s likely collusion might try. Not in the 21st C before the very eyes of the global community. There is no way they can hide these things going on today. Not even the Australian Aborigines got wiped out, nor the Native Americans, though admittedly any race could face the same fate as those unfortunate peoples – a literally casino economy at best.
Thein Sein’s govt must find a viable exit strategy which cannot work without including the Kachin over sharing the wealth of the North. Besides there are Kachin in both India (Singpho) and China (Jingpo).
b. ASSK is someone we all need, ethnic or Burman (no need to be a fan of hers) , at least at this stage of the fight. Even the CPB realised that from the beginning and does today. We would have to find someone like her if she didn’t exist. She is still the one who can unite and carry everyone including the army ( except the irredeemable) with her.
c. A gold rush of sorts is on in anticipation of the sanctions being lifted and the boom that’s about to begin has brought people from the four corners of the globeaccording to an official from the ADB. So there is a real risk of the universal greed masking the ethnic war in the north. A peaceful and prosperous Kachin State in the end must be in the interests of both India and China, not just Burma.
Neo 99 wrote:
“in the end when he dies history will judge him better than anyone else here has.”
I wholeheartedly agree. When he dies, and Thais are no longer fanatical about him, and lese majeste is abolished (which means anyone who says the truth about his wrongdoing will no longer go to jail), then what he has done will be apparent to all.
But even with lese majeste currently in force, there are already bad things he had done which no one can hide. These include (but are not limited to):
1) jailing people who do not love him;
2) destroying democracy countless time by endorsing numerous military coups;
3) supported the massacre on 6 October 1976;
4) supported, or at least acquiesced to the alleged ‘Communists’ villagers during the 1980s;
5) supported, or at least acquiesced to the massacre on April-May 2010 carried out by the Royal Thai Army in which he is a commander;
6) acquiesced to his wife’s (the Queen) blatant interference (through her supporting the PAD) with democratically elected government; and
7) supported, or at least acquiesced to the witchhunting and political harassment carried on by the Royalists against people who do not love him
Only with these seven atrocious acts which he had done, I believe any reasonable and objective person would be able to conclude that he is definitely not a good person.
If anyone would like to prove me wrong I would love to hear your arguments.
Next round of questions can go like this: “Have you read ‘The King Never Smiles’? What are your opinions of the book? In case you haven’t then why not? How about the work of Andrew MacGregor Marshall on the King Bhumibol? Do you believe of Darunee Charnchoensilpakul deserves to be jailed for so many years? How about Ampon Tangnoppakul? Somyot Prueksakasemsuk? Surachai Danwatthananusorn? How about the others? How about your disdain of Giles Ji Ungpakorn? Is your silence worthy of Eton College and University of Oxford graduate?”
For the international community, the Kachin are elephant in the room. Cue from Aung San Suu Kyi: the only need for the Kachin is offer as a go-between which implies that Kachin are not US but others and offer of blankets to the frightened survivors afterwards in publicised fashion.
Chinese want Kachin dead to collect their goods (pipes,dams, jade, minerals, timber) already paid and bought from the Burmese, only wish they do so quietly. Burmese military want Kachin dead to serve the master Chinese. The “Democratic Opposition” really want Kachin dead as they are pebble in their new shining boots for them during their “nation building” ie. selling out the pipes, ports, roads, forest, fish, gem, rare metals, cheap labour and women for high rise buildings and iPAD’s, Than Shwe’s plan and now enthusiastically endorsed by all.
And the international community desperately reliant on Chinese economy just to keep the Eurozone dis-integration at bay, wants to give China anything they want and salivates at the thought of newly integrated South- East Asia as next virgin to spoil with rampant consumerism on top of resource extraction and energy production with promised destroyed land, air, water and demoralised people devoid of culture and religion left behind.
For consumer goods are the new opium for the masses with better penetration.
Karen got tired of being chased around for half a century and want to be rich like the Thai who they secretly loath. At least some of them are eager to drop any pretension of federal state and grab money and some status coming their way.
There is no democratic awakening in Burma today unless people believe in Hong Kong Rolex.
Only if the titles “President”, “Parliament”, “Constitution” mean what they regard since they are born but not as it is today in Burma. And actively keep finding excuses for Thein Sein to lie to them- the Myit Sone Dam is a lie, the stop attack order on Kachin is a lie.
Yet it is curious how much more Thein Sein has to lie until people feel cheated at all. Such is the power of Aung San Suu Kyi. Or rather misplaced trust. Of course the “Parliament” (two Houses!!!) and the whole “Government” is under some nebulous committee and ALL military people off uniform can come back any time they want for another 4 years.
Since Aung San Suu Kyi has been out, the killings got worse, raping got worse, burning down the villages got worse, tongues got cut, eyes got gouged out, swathes of land confiscated, petrol prices nearly doubled, water and electricity prices got higher. People are irrationally euphoric because of their blind faith in one person.
There is the most supine investment law she will enact as soon as in the parliament so that all global businessmen can rape and pillage with clear conscience with law protecting THEM. The law should be correctly called “the Rights of Bulldozers”.
Perhaps someone could point out a single good thing that happens to the people in the last year which is not of the circus and pantomime.
Likelihood is that after the fall of Liaza, Kachin, left to their own devices by future-blanket-giving brethren of the country Burma and the international community, will be a guerilla force and may feel justified to use violence in the other parts of the country as hinted by a recent order and might try to turn the problem into national wide racial issue.
“The 17 years of peace” was the leaders of Kachin community getting rich by all immoral business deals and nature destruction. Now Burmese military wants more and they rightly calculated that no one will come to the Kachin’s aid with various bribery to Shan, Karen and Wa and total ignorance and neglect by the Burmese and their chosen leader.
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Questions for Abhisit Vejjajiva
Roger,
Would you please post a link to the Youtube video?
It seems that anyone wanting to establish credibility by citing a video is doing themselves an enormous disservice by making it so difficult for others to track down said video.
The one you cite sounds particularly interesting.
Thanks.
Review of Spirits of the Place
Excellent, excellent, excellent book & review !!! Will look for at Kinokuniya today.
Nice call for future work:
“…the primary and secondary data that Holt has collected lack sufficient relevant detail to flesh out the creative ambition of his central argument. Without enough ethnographic or historical engagement to sustain the specifics of its thesis… these essays are in many ways inspiring. …however, they make for a book that is not completely satisfying.”
“Muang metaphysics” is certainly an evocative phrase!
And this idea is intriguing:
“A survey of 100 novices resident in the city’s temples tells us much about their social origins, aspirations and, in particular, their interactions with tourists. But why not include some survey questions about their attitudes toward the basic cosmological issues that are the book’s primary concern? A good number of these young novices are interested in pursuing a career in business, and I wonder what supernatural connections they will be cultivating in their pursuit of modernity and prosperity.”
🙂
Questions for Abhisit Vejjajiva
Is it true the M79 round that killed the army Colonel and soldiers was actually an accidental discharge of the M79 weapon by a soldier in that group? The video on youtube confirms this: if so, is this the reason the “black shirts” have never been arrested and subsequent enquires have never been made public?
Questions for Abhisit Vejjajiva
Charles, just some quick points. Gaddafi’s PhD wasn’t in economics. And also, since when does a degree, famous or otherwise, attribute the holder with virtue? Plenty of very intelligent people are morally bankrupt. What you’ve written mostly seems like a diatribe against those institutions because you resent not being in the mix with power!
Islamic fundamentalists, Christian threats, Freudian slips
Adam said:
For all your responses, I have replies as well but I guess you would also have counter-points too. So, at a certain point in any discussion, we have to agree to disagree and adopt the sensible position of ” unto you your belief and unto me, mine”.
Pak Yehs reply :
That is a convenient escape button you pressed.
The truth is you don’t have an answer. The Bible Laws including not eating pork and circumcision are a covenants with the Lord.
Jesus never said, not to obey the laws. On Mary Madelene’s case, it was not breaking the law but looking for loopholes in the law.Jesus himself said he did not come to break laws but to improve on them.
That is my understanding of Jesus “way”.
A man of god would admit their mistakes, not cover it up with excuses.
Adam said :
Until the next time we “cross swords” again, take care.
Pak Yehs reply :
I believe “cross words” would be a better phrase instead of “cross swords”.
Jesus way is of total nonviolence. It is an impossible task though, but we must try our best. May Allah help us.
Peace/Salam.
When Thaksin comes home
Tul’s comments make the myopia and double standards on display in this standoff very clear.
“My hatred towards Thaksin is logical and reasonable” – Hatred reasonable? Hatred logical?
“Thaksin is destroying Thai society and deepening the divide. … Thaksin exploits the differences within Thai society for his own political gains.” – he is alone in this?
Critical review of King Bhumibol’s life
Neo 99 – Perhaps because it is banned in Siam you have not red the book , but I guess most NM folk have and I would agree with comments I have read that “The King Never Smiles” is a scholarly substantial biography. I felt that Handley was not particularly critical of HM. Perhaps if written after the Wikileaks revelations, thanks to Brad some say, it would have been more so.
Seeking practical benefits from national reconciliation in Myanmar
What a well articulated article, highlighting the desperate essentials that encompass the very basic to the higher order needs to a better Myanmar’s citizenry future.
Thank you for delineating Ne Win isolationist period that dismissed and dispersed the Know-How that were educated in all necessary fields by the West through exchanges and the subsequent very West over zealous effort to punish SPDC set back at least 5 more generations of will be Know-How.
The good news is the frameworks for every aspect to a democratic Myanmar is still intact.
And desperately asking to be strengthen and be applied effectively.
Whether in Law/Education, Economics, Medicine and other essentials toward a vibrant citizenry in every respect.
The past policy of the West is what shaped Myanmar towards present quagmire.
Repeat or prolonging the same mistake might permanently destroy those very framework.
Without which N. Korean like destiny await.
Especially now that N Korean know and willing to persuade Myanmar to be their main resource in every respect, in order to continue their very best at being N. Korea.
Critical review of King Bhumibol’s life
Nganadeeleg the king has met all past three prime minsters and those who came before them and given them all advice. What that advice is , is between him and them and it could be anything. Most likely it was something very right wing and high in Buddhist principles As for what his daughter said she could be telling the truth. Then again, Wikleaks has reveled that the king suffers from depression and Parkinson’s disease None of his kids have mentioned that. The recent floods did nothing to help with that, I think that she said what she said, to give supporters of the king the comfort that he was alright and still in the get go of things.
Then again as you said I am not in the know, none of us are. Still that hasn’t stopped people from making a lots of harsh judgements. I think that someone should write a nice factual account of the king’s reign without any bias or emotion attached to it , no one’s done that yet and until someone does, I feel that there will never be a true account of his reign or even who he really is. I think the king should have written a Autobiography about his life, when his mind was still whole. Instead of writing that really weird book about his dog. I think it would have been good for him to explain things from his point of view, it was a golden opportunity and he just let it pass by.
Islamic fundamentalists, Christian threats, Freudian slips
Dear Pak Yeh #22,
For all your responses, I have replies as well but I guess you would also have counter-points too. So, at a certain point in any discussion, we have to agree to disagree and adopt the sensible position of ” unto you your belief and unto me, mine”.
This discussion has gone on long enough. I must say it is quite illuminating to know your views on Christianity and whilst I try to change your strong views to make you understand our stand-point, I must admit it is difficult. But, there will be other opportunities in other articles and forums. Until the next time we “cross swords” again, take care.
Salam/Peace.
Critical review of King Bhumibol’s life
“One more thing, do you honestly think that King could rule over Thailand for 66 years and not develop some sort of love for the people.”
He might. Or he might think they are like his family and not be close to any of them and even hate some.
I also wonder about the “tragic life” – most of the tragedies appear to be of his own making. That he has reigned while the aura of the monarchy has been restored (for a time) and his CPB has accumulated oodles of assets and become horrendously wealthy may turn out to be his greatest “achievements.”
Critical review of King Bhumibol’s life
Neo 99: You seem to be contradicting HRH Princess Chulabhorn who said the King follows the news, is “attentive”, “gives orders” etc.
Also, both the current and previous PM’s are seen to have been “granted an audience” and to have been “given advice” by HMK.
Something just doesn’t add up, and until it does, it will be hard for people ‘not in the know’ to make any worthwhile judgement.
Questions for Abhisit Vejjajiva
An LSE PhD in Economics is now just another commodity to be bought and sold by political families as we learned with the arrest of Gadaffi’s son.
The reputation for the Oxford PPE is going the same way with current holders such as Abhisit and Cameron representing the educated elite. Can he reassure the Thai electorate that it wasn’t just another purchased elite education certificate by explaining the difference between Athenian Democracy and Thai Democracy.
This is a basic question that any authentic PPE holder would be able to0 explain and indeed have an interesting political viewpoint on.
Critical review of King Bhumibol’s life
@Neo 99
>”First of all, he’s never put anyone in jail, that’s no how that screwed up law works. The people put each other in jail, for supposedly insulting him.”
-I am afraid you have to view the whole matter in a wider context. You are right that he did not personally put anyone in jail. However, it was him who gave assent to lese majeste law, isn’t it? Had he refused to sign, this vile law would never be in place. In my opinion, if you propagandalise yourself every day until people are ready to kill others who do not like you, then you assent to this vile law that allows anyone to report anyone who criticises you to be jailed, then that is akin to you jailing others yourself. If you think I am wrong I would love to hear your explanation.
“Also I see no evidence that he supported that massacre.”
-Again, you have to view the whole matter in a wider context. It would be impossible for the TV to televise him giving direct order to support it. You have to think, “who came out and kill the Red Shirts?” The answer is the “the Army”. Then you would have to ask yourself, then who has the power to stop the army from doing this? Who has the DUTY to stop the army from doing this? The answer….go read the Constitution, section 10, it states “the King is the commander of the Thai army”. So he is the person who is responsible, and is able, to stop this whole thing. And he chose not to do anything after he realised that his army is committing crimes against humanity. So I was correct that he supported, or at least acquiesced to the massacre.
“As for the King from what I understand he was partially on his death bed at this point. A frail old man, with more health problems than I can count. Sounds like a real villain. Honestly do you think he knew the full extent of what was going on, if he did he most likely would have had a heart attack and died.”
-Assuming that he is about to die like you said (which I disagree…but anyway), then have not you heard the word “abdication”? If he fully realises he cannot assume full responsibility, it is only responsible and correct that he gives his title to someone else who has the ability to do his job.
“Also his Commander of Thai military rank is a purely ceremonial one, maybe at one time it wasn’t but not anymore.”
-Where is your source? Any academic viewpoint to support this? If not, you have no right to make this assertion. Furthermore, I would like to ask you, assuming that what you said is really true, that if the King comes out and tell the Army to stop killing on TV, would they disobey him, given how influential he is in Thailand at the moment? The answer is likely to be no. If he really wants to stop, he can. But he didn’t.
“One more thing, do you honestly think that King could rule over Thailand for 66 years and not develop some sort of love for the people. After being loved by so many of them so much?”
-Well, Kim Jong Il had not really done many things positive about North Korea. But with daily propaganda and massive brainwashing, you still see ignorant North Koreans weeping when he dies. Have you been to Thailand? Have you ever seen the amount of propaganda on TV about King B? If you have seen it, you know why many Thais are still fanatical to him (fortunately I am not one of them).
I would not make comment about what the Red Shirts have done or what the Yellow Shirts have done. The only thing I would say to you is whatever they have done, the Army has NO RIGHT to shoot them down. So you can never try to BS your way through to justify the massacre. Because you can’t. Don’t even try. I only read your nonsensical, groundless justification for the army for the few sentences and I stopped reading when you said the Army was “so pissed off with the Red Shirts that they wouldn’t listen if anyone would try to stop them”. That is not a justification. Try arguing this point in the US Courts and the Judge is likely to tell you to stop talking, or the polite one may allow you to finish your speech, yet they do not take your speech into consideration anyway when they make the judgment. Because it is a blatant crimes against humanity. Nothing can justify it.
Critical review of King Bhumibol’s life
Okay CT, let me try to address all your points. First of all, he’s never put anyone in jail, that’s no how that screwed up law works. The people put each other in jail, for supposedly insulting him. He most likely never gave this much thought, since before the coup there were only around five cases a year and I think most people didn’t serve the full sentences anyway. In 20o2 and there were none, at this point he’s so old and out of it, he doesn’t even know how bad it’s gotten. Although since 2011 the number of LM cases has dropped by a good amount.
Also I see no evidence that he supported that massacre. Then again, I hesitate to call that a massacre, since I read plenty of reports from reporters from my country who were there as it was happening. The Red shirts were firing grandees and other other bombs at them, before the soldiers even did anything. They damaged a lot of property and went on homophobic and xenophobic rants. They are not the saints that people make them out to be. They were given a golden offer from PM Abhisit Vejjajiva for him to resign in just a few months and for elections to be instantly held when that happened. If they had just said yes so much bloodshed could have been avoided.
Also the people of Bangkok gave these Red shirts no support, they just ignored them and went on with their lives. As for the King from what I understand he was partially on his death bed at this point. A frail old man, with more health problems than I can count. Sounds like a real villain. Honestly do you think he knew the full extent of what was going on, if he did he most likely would have had a heart attack and died. Also his Commander of Thai military rank is a purely ceremonial one, maybe at one time it wasn’t but not anymore. Also given how pissed off and scared the soldiers where, I don’t think they would have listen to anyone at that point. The Thai army is not that will trained and there handling of this situation shows that. In the end there is not a single real piece of evidence that he gave any real sort of kill order , he may not have not even known how many people got killed until this whole event was over and his health was better. Wither he supports the military’s decision, I have no idea and honestly I don’t care because I am sure there are a lot of people in Bangkok who support what the military did. I’ll address all your other points later when I have more time, but I will say that history is the best judge of all because it judges with just facts and without any bias. Which you seem to have a lot of , although I don’t see how anything the King’s done has made your life worse. In fact at this time everything is fine now and will remain that way as long as both the Yellow shirts and the Red Shirts don’t stage any major protests. Both of these groups are crazy and should bare the real blame for all that has happened.
One more thing, do you honestly think that King could rule over Thailand for 66 years and not develop some sort of love for the people. After being loved by so many of them so much? Unless he’s a sociopath,I don’t think that’s possible. Since he hasn’t given any of the signs of being one, just me I know those signs well. As I said before I will address your other points, but I am very tight on time so it may take a few days.
Questions for Abhisit Vejjajiva
Khun Abphisit, why dont you think the Democrats have won an election in Thailand since 1992?
Internationalising the Kachin war
a. Genocide of the Kachin will never happen however hard the regime with China’s likely collusion might try. Not in the 21st C before the very eyes of the global community. There is no way they can hide these things going on today. Not even the Australian Aborigines got wiped out, nor the Native Americans, though admittedly any race could face the same fate as those unfortunate peoples – a literally casino economy at best.
Thein Sein’s govt must find a viable exit strategy which cannot work without including the Kachin over sharing the wealth of the North. Besides there are Kachin in both India (Singpho) and China (Jingpo).
b. ASSK is someone we all need, ethnic or Burman (no need to be a fan of hers) , at least at this stage of the fight. Even the CPB realised that from the beginning and does today. We would have to find someone like her if she didn’t exist. She is still the one who can unite and carry everyone including the army ( except the irredeemable) with her.
c. A gold rush of sorts is on in anticipation of the sanctions being lifted and the
boom that’s about to begin has brought people from the four corners of the globeaccording to an official from the ADB. So there is a real risk of the universal greed masking the ethnic war in the north. A peaceful and prosperous Kachin State in the end must be in the interests of both India and China, not just Burma.
Critical review of King Bhumibol’s life
Neo 99 wrote:
“in the end when he dies history will judge him better than anyone else here has.”
I wholeheartedly agree. When he dies, and Thais are no longer fanatical about him, and lese majeste is abolished (which means anyone who says the truth about his wrongdoing will no longer go to jail), then what he has done will be apparent to all.
But even with lese majeste currently in force, there are already bad things he had done which no one can hide. These include (but are not limited to):
1) jailing people who do not love him;
2) destroying democracy countless time by endorsing numerous military coups;
3) supported the massacre on 6 October 1976;
4) supported, or at least acquiesced to the alleged ‘Communists’ villagers during the 1980s;
5) supported, or at least acquiesced to the massacre on April-May 2010 carried out by the Royal Thai Army in which he is a commander;
6) acquiesced to his wife’s (the Queen) blatant interference (through her supporting the PAD) with democratically elected government; and
7) supported, or at least acquiesced to the witchhunting and political harassment carried on by the Royalists against people who do not love him
Only with these seven atrocious acts which he had done, I believe any reasonable and objective person would be able to conclude that he is definitely not a good person.
If anyone would like to prove me wrong I would love to hear your arguments.
Questions for Abhisit Vejjajiva
Next round of questions can go like this: “Have you read ‘The King Never Smiles’? What are your opinions of the book? In case you haven’t then why not? How about the work of Andrew MacGregor Marshall on the King Bhumibol? Do you believe of Darunee Charnchoensilpakul deserves to be jailed for so many years? How about Ampon Tangnoppakul? Somyot Prueksakasemsuk? Surachai Danwatthananusorn? How about the others? How about your disdain of Giles Ji Ungpakorn? Is your silence worthy of Eton College and University of Oxford graduate?”
Internationalising the Kachin war
For the international community, the Kachin are elephant in the room. Cue from Aung San Suu Kyi: the only need for the Kachin is offer as a go-between which implies that Kachin are not US but others and offer of blankets to the frightened survivors afterwards in publicised fashion.
Chinese want Kachin dead to collect their goods (pipes,dams, jade, minerals, timber) already paid and bought from the Burmese, only wish they do so quietly. Burmese military want Kachin dead to serve the master Chinese. The “Democratic Opposition” really want Kachin dead as they are pebble in their new shining boots for them during their “nation building” ie. selling out the pipes, ports, roads, forest, fish, gem, rare metals, cheap labour and women for high rise buildings and iPAD’s, Than Shwe’s plan and now enthusiastically endorsed by all.
And the international community desperately reliant on Chinese economy just to keep the Eurozone dis-integration at bay, wants to give China anything they want and salivates at the thought of newly integrated South- East Asia as next virgin to spoil with rampant consumerism on top of resource extraction and energy production with promised destroyed land, air, water and demoralised people devoid of culture and religion left behind.
For consumer goods are the new opium for the masses with better penetration.
Karen got tired of being chased around for half a century and want to be rich like the Thai who they secretly loath. At least some of them are eager to drop any pretension of federal state and grab money and some status coming their way.
There is no democratic awakening in Burma today unless people believe in Hong Kong Rolex.
Only if the titles “President”, “Parliament”, “Constitution” mean what they regard since they are born but not as it is today in Burma. And actively keep finding excuses for Thein Sein to lie to them- the Myit Sone Dam is a lie, the stop attack order on Kachin is a lie.
Yet it is curious how much more Thein Sein has to lie until people feel cheated at all. Such is the power of Aung San Suu Kyi. Or rather misplaced trust. Of course the “Parliament” (two Houses!!!) and the whole “Government” is under some nebulous committee and ALL military people off uniform can come back any time they want for another 4 years.
Since Aung San Suu Kyi has been out, the killings got worse, raping got worse, burning down the villages got worse, tongues got cut, eyes got gouged out, swathes of land confiscated, petrol prices nearly doubled, water and electricity prices got higher. People are irrationally euphoric because of their blind faith in one person.
There is the most supine investment law she will enact as soon as in the parliament so that all global businessmen can rape and pillage with clear conscience with law protecting THEM. The law should be correctly called “the Rights of Bulldozers”.
Perhaps someone could point out a single good thing that happens to the people in the last year which is not of the circus and pantomime.
Likelihood is that after the fall of Liaza, Kachin, left to their own devices by future-blanket-giving brethren of the country Burma and the international community, will be a guerilla force and may feel justified to use violence in the other parts of the country as hinted by a recent order and might try to turn the problem into national wide racial issue.
“The 17 years of peace” was the leaders of Kachin community getting rich by all immoral business deals and nature destruction. Now Burmese military wants more and they rightly calculated that no one will come to the Kachin’s aid with various bribery to Shan, Karen and Wa and total ignorance and neglect by the Burmese and their chosen leader.
Choas and destruction await.