It is astounding that Kittisak Prokkati, a lecturer in Law at TU is unable to counter the Nitirat proposals with a tightly framed and concise counter-argument. Instead he provides a page of confused thoughts displaying an ignorance of Thai (and English) history and astonishingly unable to understand the function of a constitution in a democracy. A statement from a professor in law that claims “The best way to prevent coups is to have people oppose coups” is truely disturbing.
Although his arguments follow the standard royalist lines, I would have expected much more from a TU lecturer in law. I am left thinking that this partly reflects the dismal state of the Thai education system.
Funny how everyone is focusing on Thailand’s signing up to Twitter censorship yet forget that the first major power that posited it was the UK during the riots last August.
In fact I would guess Twitter’s policy is possibly a reaction to the UK govt’s original intervention.
Also for a full-throated discussion on cyber-utopianism check out Evgeny Morozov’s Net Delusion . He takes a sledgehammer to many of the received wisdoms. And rightly so.
Remember some years ago when people were blaming swidden cultivation in Indonesia for unusually heavy smoke in Singapore? Later, it was determined that most of the smoke was actually coming from big companies in Indonesia who were burning large areas for plantation development. But everyone assumed it was those dreaded swidden cultivators initially. The anti-swidden cultivation narrative is indeed enduring, despite works by Harold Conklin in 1957, Michael Dove in 1983, and many others. Now climate change has created yet another reason to justify controling the swidden cultivators, as if it is largely their fault that we are facing a problem with climate change in the first place.
> “Please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought going to the embassy in Cambodia is not enough. ”
Depends on the countries involved. For example, North Koreans try to make it to the South Korean Embassy in Bangkok. No way would they bother with the embassy in Vientiane or any missions in China. I think the advice re seeking an embassy in Cambodia is bad advice.
traveling in 3rd world country for a work on NGO makes you sad most of the times, we cant judge them according to what we just see and know on the web. people eat dogs, cats and other exotic animals because its a part of their culture, i been in Philippines for 6 months, in the metro cities, if you kill a dog for food you will be prison, but in remote areas, people still eat dogs and no one go to jail , coz even the authorities eat dogs on remote areas. funny but its true, but still good coz little by little people are being educated not to eat dogs in the Philippines and its good that the government punish those people who loves to eat dogs.
its really hard to bend a culture how much more for a hungry stomach
@free9josh said: “And for some friends who graduated, major in law, from that university. I’d like to share my infinited pity on you too. Having seen you worked like slaves for all of your life, not a bit able to identify what right and wrong on countless injustices in this overwhelmed black propoganda country.”
One of my good friends who is a lawyer in Thailand, graduate of TU, and a Red Shirt, said that the legal studies in Thailand is not like in common law countries.
In common law countries, students are encouraged to take different views from the Courts (even Supreme Court or House of Lords) on what the ‘right’ outcome should be, as long as they can justify their opinion in a legalistic and academic manner. In fact, law students who ‘obey’ the decisions of the highest Court and simply copy verbatim of what the Judges said will receive nothing more than B+ or A-. However, it’s those students who dare to be different, and are able to respectfully convince the lecturers with academic reasons, who will receive the highest marks.
In Thailand, on the other hand, students are taught to obey the decisions of the Courts. If you dare to be different, you will fail. My father was a law graduate from one Thai university as well. He told me about his experience when he did Insurance Law. He knew what the outcome from the Supreme Court was about a certain matter. Yet he dared to be different, explaining why he believes this law should be changed, and what the outcome should be. He also did a lot of research on overseas law on how they decide these matters, and wrote a lot of overseas law and reasoning to support his answer. The result??? He FAILED Insurance Law…(and had he done this in England, he would have received at least an A-….)
My point is…law graduates in Thailand are not taught to think differently. They are taught to obey and trust the highest courts’ decisions. This explains why Thai people can’t think critically. I mean, if even law majors cannot think critically, what hopes do other graduates have?
Hopefully, through confronting the issues head on respectfully we will then live happily ever after – yes, maybe inMalaysiathat is still possible.
You are much more optimistic than I am. Currently the zietgeist of the Muslim world is best represented by the slogan, Islam din wa dawla (Islam is a religion and a state). While the antiquity of this concept in Islamic thought is currently hotly debated by scholars, there is no denying its modern-day popularity with Muslims all around the world.
Indeed, look at the political parties that are succeeding in the wake of the so-called “Arab Spring”. Islamist parties currently form the majority in Tunisia, Libya, and Egypt. This situation is relevant to Malaysia because Egypt is the spiritual, and now physical, home of the Muslim Brotherhood (Ikhwan). The Ikhwan has a very strong presence in Malaysia; Anwar Ibrahim, and Mahathir Mohamad are but two very well-known members of the Ikhwan. Furthermore, Mohammed Abdul Rauf, a high ranking member of the Ikhwan personally founded four Islamic study centers in Malaysia, including the International Islamic University of Kuala Lumpur.
By definition, within an Islamic state, faith groups engaging in religious dialogue as equals is impossible. One of the cornerstones of political Islam is the supremacy of Islam in all spheres of life. Therefore, there are only a few ways in which to deal with minority faith groups. One method is political Confessionalism (taifiyya). Taifiyya was developed by the Ottoman Empire and is currently found in modern-day Lebanon and Iran. Taifiyya reserves a certain amount of political representation for recognized religious minorities. Of course, political power is controlled by the Islamic majority in this system as recognition is based solely on the fiat of the ruling body.
A second method is known by the controversial term “Dhimmitude”. Within this system, certain religious minorities are tolerated as long as they recognize the supremacy of Islam within the state. Unlike Taifiyya, the religious minority groups do not hold even the slightest bit of token political power; however, they are granted certain rights. Again, religious inequality is inherent in this system.
Finally, the last method would be that of Holy War. Obviously, this is the antithesis of religious dialogue; however, certain schools of thought argue that a truly Islamic state cannot have any non-Muslims living in it.
The failure of pan-Arab socialism, as seen in Iraqi, Syria, and Palestine, has led to it being replaced with a pan-Muslim political Islamism. The success of the revolutions in North Africa and the Levant will only embolden political Islamists in Malaysia. As long as the concept of Islam din wa dawla has currency in the Malaysian Muslim community, there can be no true dialogue.
The hunger strike will now be held at the Criminal Court at Ratchada, instead of Suvarnabhumi Airport.
One of the organisers told me that “Since a lot more people than we expected will join the event and this could lead to the chaos. We want to make this event peaceful and avoid the risk that someone could be injured. We agreed to change the location for this hunger strike from the airport to the Criminal Court Ratchada.”
i just have nthg to say but showing tremendous pity on most of my thai freinds who never read more than three pages/week but instead show lots of angriness. I wonder in what exact way they could understand what nitiraj said. And for some friends who graduated, major in law, from that university. I’d like to share my infinited pity on you too. Having seen you worked like slaves for all of your life, not a bit able to identify what right and wrong on countless injustices in this overwhelmed black propoganda country.
If this letter by 224 academics falls on deaf ears like a similar one a few weeks earlier with half that nuber ( 112 ) signing – will there be another round with then 448 and 996 coming up ?
There need to be a balance between “poverty eradication” and “carbon footprint” The whole concept of carbon credit trading is a sham. Until I see a baseline “carbon footprint” allowable per person (equal for every single person in the world) I will continue to see it as a sham and a very devious way “developed” world is trying to control the balance of economic power.
Please note that the carbon footprint per capita of Oz is many many times that of Thailand / Burma or Laos.
That’s simple. Somkit’s predecessor was Surapon Nitikraipot. Both belong to the same political-academic puak, which is close to the Democrat party. During the later PAD protests, Suraphon joined the calls for the use of article 7 to put an end to the Thaksin government. The leader of this puak is the former TU president Noranit Setthabut, who is now the president of TU’s university council. Needless to say that this puak collaborated with the coup plotters of 2006. Thus, that Worajet’s groups wants to declare their coup-induced legal “achievements” ( the constitution of 2007, etc.) invalid does not go down well with them…
Letters like this one have many audiences. The letter is addressed to the Thai prime minister, but others inside Thailand will read it or come to know of it – Thai officials in government departments, journalists, academics, NGOs, and activists. To the outside world, the letter reports the excessive measures being used in the name of an unjust law. Diplomats, officials in international organisations, and journalists, among others, will take note, or so one hopes.
Will anyone in a position of authority inside or outside the country do anything as a result of this letter? The effects are impossible to gauge. I do not sign the letter because I think the prime minister or the legislators or the DSI or the courts will pay attention to this particular appeal to reform 112. I do not sign the letter because I think the proposed reforms are ideal. I sign the letter because I think it is important that the Nitirat group and CCAA112 group know that the outside world understands the risks they are taking and is concerned about their welfare. The letter encourages their bold move. The letter states “we stand in solidarity with….,” no more, no less.
“Thammasat University rector Somkit Lertpaithoon reaffirmed yesterday that the university board had not entirely banned nor singled out Nitirat. He said the ban applied to any campaigning related to Article 112 on the university grounds, whether by Nitirat or anyone else.”
Of course, what he said and actual enforcement may or may not be in agreement . . .
Really, I think you are just too obsess with the “Shinawatra”. I don’t really care much about Yingluck, matter of fact, I never even listen to a single word of her speech. Now most of my free time has been spend on Nitirat and their 112 campaign. Just letting you know.
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Kantoop and lèse-majesté
During cold war it was quite easy just to “jump the fence” into an embassy. After 9-11 and several attacks on embassies that has changed.
Pheua Thai but for lese majeste
” Repetitive ranting, unimaginative point-scoring and idle abuse will not be entertained. ” – Unless, that is , they are made by Vichai N.
I thought the PM’s comments on the need for better education to empower women were consistent with research from many countries.
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
Thankyou Srithanonchai #53 for the link
It is astounding that Kittisak Prokkati, a lecturer in Law at TU is unable to counter the Nitirat proposals with a tightly framed and concise counter-argument. Instead he provides a page of confused thoughts displaying an ignorance of Thai (and English) history and astonishingly unable to understand the function of a constitution in a democracy. A statement from a professor in law that claims “The best way to prevent coups is to have people oppose coups” is truely disturbing.
Although his arguments follow the standard royalist lines, I would have expected much more from a TU lecturer in law. I am left thinking that this partly reflects the dismal state of the Thai education system.
Internet access denied, controlled and now contested
Funny how everyone is focusing on Thailand’s signing up to Twitter censorship yet forget that the first major power that posited it was the UK during the riots last August.
In fact I would guess Twitter’s policy is possibly a reaction to the UK govt’s original intervention.
Also for a full-throated discussion on cyber-utopianism check out Evgeny Morozov’s Net Delusion . He takes a sledgehammer to many of the received wisdoms. And rightly so.
Smoke across mainland Southeast Asia
Remember some years ago when people were blaming swidden cultivation in Indonesia for unusually heavy smoke in Singapore? Later, it was determined that most of the smoke was actually coming from big companies in Indonesia who were burning large areas for plantation development. But everyone assumed it was those dreaded swidden cultivators initially. The anti-swidden cultivation narrative is indeed enduring, despite works by Harold Conklin in 1957, Michael Dove in 1983, and many others. Now climate change has created yet another reason to justify controling the swidden cultivators, as if it is largely their fault that we are facing a problem with climate change in the first place.
Kantoop and lèse-majesté
> “Please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought going to the embassy in Cambodia is not enough. ”
Depends on the countries involved. For example, North Koreans try to make it to the South Korean Embassy in Bangkok. No way would they bother with the embassy in Vientiane or any missions in China. I think the advice re seeking an embassy in Cambodia is bad advice.
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
For the views of a Nitirat colleague who happens not to be in their camp, see
http://nationmultimedia.com/politics/Rise-in-cases-tied-to-power-struggle-30175191.html
Pheua Thai but for lese majeste
After that Yingluck@Davos video clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ2ktL77vnA
I will have to ask: Is the Peau Thai Party leader and Thai PM Yingluck Shinawatra a bimbo or not?
Lunch?
traveling in 3rd world country for a work on NGO makes you sad most of the times, we cant judge them according to what we just see and know on the web. people eat dogs, cats and other exotic animals because its a part of their culture, i been in Philippines for 6 months, in the metro cities, if you kill a dog for food you will be prison, but in remote areas, people still eat dogs and no one go to jail , coz even the authorities eat dogs on remote areas. funny but its true, but still good coz little by little people are being educated not to eat dogs in the Philippines and its good that the government punish those people who loves to eat dogs.
its really hard to bend a culture how much more for a hungry stomach
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
@free9josh said: “And for some friends who graduated, major in law, from that university. I’d like to share my infinited pity on you too. Having seen you worked like slaves for all of your life, not a bit able to identify what right and wrong on countless injustices in this overwhelmed black propoganda country.”
One of my good friends who is a lawyer in Thailand, graduate of TU, and a Red Shirt, said that the legal studies in Thailand is not like in common law countries.
In common law countries, students are encouraged to take different views from the Courts (even Supreme Court or House of Lords) on what the ‘right’ outcome should be, as long as they can justify their opinion in a legalistic and academic manner. In fact, law students who ‘obey’ the decisions of the highest Court and simply copy verbatim of what the Judges said will receive nothing more than B+ or A-. However, it’s those students who dare to be different, and are able to respectfully convince the lecturers with academic reasons, who will receive the highest marks.
In Thailand, on the other hand, students are taught to obey the decisions of the Courts. If you dare to be different, you will fail. My father was a law graduate from one Thai university as well. He told me about his experience when he did Insurance Law. He knew what the outcome from the Supreme Court was about a certain matter. Yet he dared to be different, explaining why he believes this law should be changed, and what the outcome should be. He also did a lot of research on overseas law on how they decide these matters, and wrote a lot of overseas law and reasoning to support his answer. The result??? He FAILED Insurance Law…(and had he done this in England, he would have received at least an A-….)
My point is…law graduates in Thailand are not taught to think differently. They are taught to obey and trust the highest courts’ decisions. This explains why Thai people can’t think critically. I mean, if even law majors cannot think critically, what hopes do other graduates have?
Religious dialogue: whose responsibility? – Part 2
Hopefully, through confronting the issues head on respectfully we will then live happily ever after – yes, maybe inMalaysiathat is still possible.
You are much more optimistic than I am. Currently the zietgeist of the Muslim world is best represented by the slogan, Islam din wa dawla (Islam is a religion and a state). While the antiquity of this concept in Islamic thought is currently hotly debated by scholars, there is no denying its modern-day popularity with Muslims all around the world.
Indeed, look at the political parties that are succeeding in the wake of the so-called “Arab Spring”. Islamist parties currently form the majority in Tunisia, Libya, and Egypt. This situation is relevant to Malaysia because Egypt is the spiritual, and now physical, home of the Muslim Brotherhood (Ikhwan). The Ikhwan has a very strong presence in Malaysia; Anwar Ibrahim, and Mahathir Mohamad are but two very well-known members of the Ikhwan. Furthermore, Mohammed Abdul Rauf, a high ranking member of the Ikhwan personally founded four Islamic study centers in Malaysia, including the International Islamic University of Kuala Lumpur.
By definition, within an Islamic state, faith groups engaging in religious dialogue as equals is impossible. One of the cornerstones of political Islam is the supremacy of Islam in all spheres of life. Therefore, there are only a few ways in which to deal with minority faith groups. One method is political Confessionalism (taifiyya). Taifiyya was developed by the Ottoman Empire and is currently found in modern-day Lebanon and Iran. Taifiyya reserves a certain amount of political representation for recognized religious minorities. Of course, political power is controlled by the Islamic majority in this system as recognition is based solely on the fiat of the ruling body.
A second method is known by the controversial term “Dhimmitude”. Within this system, certain religious minorities are tolerated as long as they recognize the supremacy of Islam within the state. Unlike Taifiyya, the religious minority groups do not hold even the slightest bit of token political power; however, they are granted certain rights. Again, religious inequality is inherent in this system.
Finally, the last method would be that of Holy War. Obviously, this is the antithesis of religious dialogue; however, certain schools of thought argue that a truly Islamic state cannot have any non-Muslims living in it.
The failure of pan-Arab socialism, as seen in Iraqi, Syria, and Palestine, has led to it being replaced with a pan-Muslim political Islamism. The success of the revolutions in North Africa and the Levant will only embolden political Islamists in Malaysia. As long as the concept of Islam din wa dawla has currency in the Malaysian Muslim community, there can be no true dialogue.
Kantoop and lèse-majesté
The hunger strike will now be held at the Criminal Court at Ratchada, instead of Suvarnabhumi Airport.
One of the organisers told me that “Since a lot more people than we expected will join the event and this could lead to the chaos. We want to make this event peaceful and avoid the risk that someone could be injured. We agreed to change the location for this hunger strike from the airport to the Criminal Court Ratchada.”
FYI, please.
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
i just have nthg to say but showing tremendous pity on most of my thai freinds who never read more than three pages/week but instead show lots of angriness. I wonder in what exact way they could understand what nitiraj said. And for some friends who graduated, major in law, from that university. I’d like to share my infinited pity on you too. Having seen you worked like slaves for all of your life, not a bit able to identify what right and wrong on countless injustices in this overwhelmed black propoganda country.
International solidarity for the Amendment of Article 112
If this letter by 224 academics falls on deaf ears like a similar one a few weeks earlier with half that nuber ( 112 ) signing – will there be another round with then 448 and 996 coming up ?
Smoke across mainland Southeast Asia
There need to be a balance between “poverty eradication” and “carbon footprint” The whole concept of carbon credit trading is a sham. Until I see a baseline “carbon footprint” allowable per person (equal for every single person in the world) I will continue to see it as a sham and a very devious way “developed” world is trying to control the balance of economic power.
Please note that the carbon footprint per capita of Oz is many many times that of Thailand / Burma or Laos.
Pushing Nitirat to the edge
#17
Exactly!!
Pushing Nitirat to the edge
#9
That’s simple. Somkit’s predecessor was Surapon Nitikraipot. Both belong to the same political-academic puak, which is close to the Democrat party. During the later PAD protests, Suraphon joined the calls for the use of article 7 to put an end to the Thaksin government. The leader of this puak is the former TU president Noranit Setthabut, who is now the president of TU’s university council. Needless to say that this puak collaborated with the coup plotters of 2006. Thus, that Worajet’s groups wants to declare their coup-induced legal “achievements” ( the constitution of 2007, etc.) invalid does not go down well with them…
International solidarity for the Amendment of Article 112
Letters like this one have many audiences. The letter is addressed to the Thai prime minister, but others inside Thailand will read it or come to know of it – Thai officials in government departments, journalists, academics, NGOs, and activists. To the outside world, the letter reports the excessive measures being used in the name of an unjust law. Diplomats, officials in international organisations, and journalists, among others, will take note, or so one hopes.
Will anyone in a position of authority inside or outside the country do anything as a result of this letter? The effects are impossible to gauge. I do not sign the letter because I think the prime minister or the legislators or the DSI or the courts will pay attention to this particular appeal to reform 112. I do not sign the letter because I think the proposed reforms are ideal. I sign the letter because I think it is important that the Nitirat group and CCAA112 group know that the outside world understands the risks they are taking and is concerned about their welfare. The letter encourages their bold move. The letter states “we stand in solidarity with….,” no more, no less.
Pushing Nitirat to the edge
I partially take back my comment in #23 . . .
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/278229/thammasat-ban-under-attack
“Thammasat University rector Somkit Lertpaithoon reaffirmed yesterday that the university board had not entirely banned nor singled out Nitirat. He said the ban applied to any campaigning related to Article 112 on the university grounds, whether by Nitirat or anyone else.”
Of course, what he said and actual enforcement may or may not be in agreement . . .
Pheua Thai but for lese majeste
Vichai N – 39
Really, I think you are just too obsess with the “Shinawatra”. I don’t really care much about Yingluck, matter of fact, I never even listen to a single word of her speech. Now most of my free time has been spend on Nitirat and their 112 campaign. Just letting you know.