The Phua Thai party has chosen to go against the people who chose them. Everyone knows why they won the election. Because the red Shirts have been killed by the order for the people who have ‘lese majeste’ to protect them, so the name of the real culprit cannot be mentioned. And Phua Thai was the very party who encouraged these people to come and protest for them. How stupid of them to betray their own voters by behaving like this.
Luckily I did not vote for them. I suspected that the Reds who have gone to protest and sit there for months in 2010 have been fooled. It is clear now that they really have been fooled. They died for nothing. In other words, the Reds who died were just a stepping stone for Phua Thai party to use it to claim their victory.
If we remain in extremes, the intentionally dishonest nature of a book will still be fodder for counter-claims as to its nature because of proclivities to believe otherwise: this is no secret, just a possible aspect of the apparent confusion over the book and whether the motives for producing it were really honest or not. I tend to think that the subject of honesty in the view of extreme traditionalists (cultural fundamentalist extremists) is something rarely explored. That is part of the larger nature of the Thainess concept where honesty itself is irrelevant or somehow seen as hyperbole when the real goal is to achieve understanding (Thais equate this with agreement). Thus if the book achieves the goal of being recognized as a true representation, or a fair effort at one, it will be deemed to be honest and by extension those behind it will likely be deemed the same. However, the entire work itself is produced under some of the world’s severest censorship constraints, and it should also be seen under that light.
There are many here in Thailand and beyond, Thai and non-Thai, generally my Peace Corps friends and others enmeshed into the culture who will hardly ever say a negative word about Thailand and its culture, traditions, institutions and so on. This reluctance runs deep and is inculcated by expectations and surface-practice of culture while underneath facades there are real people with real hatreds, real fears, real prejudices, and real triggers for violence. In a sense it might not sound like this has anything to do with the book, but it is all part and parcel of the Thainess that brought the book into being. As we debate its honest/dishonest nature, our reasons for debate should be appreciated, perhaps, a bit more.
Overall, though, I find Marshall’s evaluation to be more in line with my own after having worked in the local Thai language media for some seven years.
Thai academics and most international academics are a world apart, in terms of approach, censorship, preconceived notions, willingness to hold academia above cultural prejudice, recognition of the need to comply with ethics and even morality. That Yale University’s flagship on a Thai phenomenon could be banned and unjustly-perceived references to it could result in years in prison…this is what separates the men from the boys in works of this nature. Puff-pieces are no secret in the writing world. Yet we seem to be avoiding calling one what it is.
According to Sydney fashion designer, Carl Kapp, the First Lady of Malaysia (FLOM) is also now First Lady of Shopping, as Andrew Horney of the Sydney Morning Herald reports.
With fiscal deficit in Malaysia at worrying levels and husband Prime Minister cutting subsidies for ordinary folks and asking them to “tighten their belts”, spending $100,000 at Kapp’s boutique and staying at the $20,000 a night Darling Hotel penthouse, among other extravagant spending seems a little out of place.
Wonder what the electorate will think of this latest escapade by the FLOM?
I suspect your “white man’s man burden” (read: guilt) is seeing imperialists behind every tree. I mentioned those three writers because they’re the ones I happen to read, mainly because they write in English and their publications are more accessible in Australia to non-academics like me. I’m quite sure I’ll get around to the Thai writers, but the low hanging fruit provided by Handley, Marshal et al is sufficient for my needs at this time. If you want to see racists jumping in the shadows then that’s your burden, not mine.
Thanks for enlightening me. I had naively thought KBAALW was a fake academic biography of the king, full of outrageous lies.
But I now see that I should have focused on “what this book actually represents” rather than “what it simply ‘is’.” And I should have realized that what seemed to be lies should instead be described as shortcomings in the “evaluative process in the recounting of history”.
However, since you mention foreign “radicals” and “activists”, and seem to regard their behaviour as unhelpful, perhaps you can answer the question that “Lena” dodged earlier.
Why do you regard it as unacceptable for foreigners to press for political change in Thailand, but totally acceptable for the foreigners who worked on KBAALW to write a deliberately misleading and dishonest book designed to maintain the political status quo? Surely if foreign journalists are knowingly peddling untruths about Thailand in support of a political position, they should be called out, regardless of which political position they support?
I wonder where the statues for Prince Phetsarath or Souvanna Phouma are? I wonder if the government would ever consider Phetsarath in their revolutionary history?
Go to the Facebook “р╕Щр╕┤р╕Хр╕┤р╣Др╕Ч р╕гр╣Ир╕зр╕бр╣Гр╕Ир╕Ыр╕Бр╕Ыр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щ”. You’ll find many more and uglier threats than suggested in this article.
One picture in early Jan 2012 is the picture of traditional execution (cutting head by sword) and a smaller insert is the crop picture of the head of Aj Piyabutr, a member of the Nitirat group, on the ground. A caption reads “Whoever is rebellious (Kabot), Execute him.”
The Chinese element, so evident in this year’s gaudy New Year, seems part and parcel of the drum beat of alleged worship while ripping off the treasury.
The Manager Online comments were indeed par for the course as far as they are concerned. I wrote to them in Thai and English suggesting they put a couple of foreigners on their ASTV program who have a different idea about Article 112 and human rights…of course, no response.
“The fact that they have published the book is more because the likes of Handley, Marshall, New Mandala et al have “flushed them out” than any sense of altruism on their part.”
Interesting that you think it is only foreign ‘commentators’ worthy of mention when describing the ‘flushing’ and the ‘out’ ….. Especially when addressing Dr Thitinan Pongsudhirak…..
There is often something very high-handed and imperialist about the way some self perceived foreign ‘radicals’ or ‘activists’ view the process of political change in Thailand ….. The ‘White Man’s burden’ is alive and well apparently. That is not to denigrate Handley or the rest of them. Handley has written a very fair review of this work highlighting both the lack of evaluative process in the recounting of history (hence the Forrest Gump analogy) as well as a wider assessment of what this book actually represets rather than what it simply ‘is’.
Somsak says he’s just got hold of the book (see ‘Reviews and reviews and reviews’) and is very interested to read the CPB and the Lese Majeste sections. He read the section about the death of Ananda first and says there are issues and that he’s going to expose these issues in a review. I think we’re talking net gain here. I agree with Thitinan – it is welcome.
> “… standing head and shoulders above much else I have read”
What else have you read? I read about one proposal that abolished the minimum, halved the maximum, and established a special office for processing accusations. This proposal would unmistakeably be a step forward. It’s also unmistakably simple. The abolishing of the minimum sentence, alone makes it infinitely better that the present law …or the alternative suggested here.
I’ll repeat the problematic proposal again: “make the punishment for offences against the King greater than that of ordinary individuals by 1 year“.
The suggestion is that ‘1 year’ (in a Thai jail) is anything like a reasonable sentence for a lese majeste transgression in 2012. One year for an SMS about the queen? One year for clicking ‘like’ on Facebook? Ridiculous. But the proposal is not for a one year sentence – it is one year tagged on to a [more substantial] main sentence.
And I really hope their: “To differentiate Article 112 of the Thai Criminal Code from being characterised as a national security offence” means the accused automatically get bail – because I see no passage like “the accused shall not be held indefinitely until deciding to plead guilty, all the while being subjected to threats about the CP coming in and giving him a good hiding” (see the Harry Nicolaides case.).
A nice sentiment, but I have my doubts the project’s minders have any desire to engage in an open debate. The books smacks of a PR exercise, nothing more, designed to counter the increasingly expressed negative perceptions of the Thai monarchy overseas. I doubt they welcome the criticism (although they may well expect it). The fact that they have published the book is more because the likes of Handley, Marshall, New Mandala et al have “flushed them out” than any sense of altruism on their part. If they had their own way they would happily have us all live in their make-believe fairy dreamworld.
@Thomas Hoy asks: “Does the Computer Crimes Act prescribe any penalties for incitement to murder and arson via online postings?”
If you threaten, defame, insult, attack (either verbally or physically), witchhunt anyone who shows that they don’t like the King, you will never be charged. Instead, those who has been threatened, defamed, insulted, attacked (either verbally or physically), witchhunted, will be the one who will be charged because they don’t love the King.
These people are insane, they wanted the history of the past reappears again hanging people by the tree, tossing people to the fire just like what those animals did then but they forgot the time now is 2012 and such act will not be allow to happen again and they are only the minority and if they start something up, it will be a civil war they’re starting up and the world will condemn the greens if they dare come out, sanction will be made to Thailand from round the world. It ain’t going be as easy as they thought and they will put our Monarchy in danger using them as the tool.
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Pheua Thai but for lese majeste
The Phua Thai party has chosen to go against the people who chose them. Everyone knows why they won the election. Because the red Shirts have been killed by the order for the people who have ‘lese majeste’ to protect them, so the name of the real culprit cannot be mentioned. And Phua Thai was the very party who encouraged these people to come and protest for them. How stupid of them to betray their own voters by behaving like this.
Luckily I did not vote for them. I suspected that the Reds who have gone to protest and sit there for months in 2010 have been fooled. It is clear now that they really have been fooled. They died for nothing. In other words, the Reds who died were just a stepping stone for Phua Thai party to use it to claim their victory.
Review of Cicuzza and Shimizu
The book appears very interesting, but I need to see and read it.
I wish I had the e-mail of the writer and possibly I could obtain the text. Wait and see.
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
@14: Isn’t that a quote from Prajadhipok?
Review of A Life’s Work
Ref. 102 et. al….
If we remain in extremes, the intentionally dishonest nature of a book will still be fodder for counter-claims as to its nature because of proclivities to believe otherwise: this is no secret, just a possible aspect of the apparent confusion over the book and whether the motives for producing it were really honest or not. I tend to think that the subject of honesty in the view of extreme traditionalists (cultural fundamentalist extremists) is something rarely explored. That is part of the larger nature of the Thainess concept where honesty itself is irrelevant or somehow seen as hyperbole when the real goal is to achieve understanding (Thais equate this with agreement). Thus if the book achieves the goal of being recognized as a true representation, or a fair effort at one, it will be deemed to be honest and by extension those behind it will likely be deemed the same. However, the entire work itself is produced under some of the world’s severest censorship constraints, and it should also be seen under that light.
There are many here in Thailand and beyond, Thai and non-Thai, generally my Peace Corps friends and others enmeshed into the culture who will hardly ever say a negative word about Thailand and its culture, traditions, institutions and so on. This reluctance runs deep and is inculcated by expectations and surface-practice of culture while underneath facades there are real people with real hatreds, real fears, real prejudices, and real triggers for violence. In a sense it might not sound like this has anything to do with the book, but it is all part and parcel of the Thainess that brought the book into being. As we debate its honest/dishonest nature, our reasons for debate should be appreciated, perhaps, a bit more.
Overall, though, I find Marshall’s evaluation to be more in line with my own after having worked in the local Thai language media for some seven years.
Thai academics and most international academics are a world apart, in terms of approach, censorship, preconceived notions, willingness to hold academia above cultural prejudice, recognition of the need to comply with ethics and even morality. That Yale University’s flagship on a Thai phenomenon could be banned and unjustly-perceived references to it could result in years in prison…this is what separates the men from the boys in works of this nature. Puff-pieces are no secret in the writing world. Yet we seem to be avoiding calling one what it is.
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
@ Jon Wright ( Comment # 12), The phrase should read “less than human.” My error.
Malaysia’s First Lady
According to Sydney fashion designer, Carl Kapp, the First Lady of Malaysia (FLOM) is also now First Lady of Shopping, as Andrew Horney of the Sydney Morning Herald reports.
With fiscal deficit in Malaysia at worrying levels and husband Prime Minister cutting subsidies for ordinary folks and asking them to “tighten their belts”, spending $100,000 at Kapp’s boutique and staying at the $20,000 a night Darling Hotel penthouse, among other extravagant spending seems a little out of place.
Wonder what the electorate will think of this latest escapade by the FLOM?
Review of A Life’s Work
Dan
I suspect your “white man’s man burden” (read: guilt) is seeing imperialists behind every tree. I mentioned those three writers because they’re the ones I happen to read, mainly because they write in English and their publications are more accessible in Australia to non-academics like me. I’m quite sure I’ll get around to the Thai writers, but the low hanging fruit provided by Handley, Marshal et al is sufficient for my needs at this time. If you want to see racists jumping in the shadows then that’s your burden, not mine.
Review of A Life’s Work
Dan #101
Thanks for enlightening me. I had naively thought KBAALW was a fake academic biography of the king, full of outrageous lies.
But I now see that I should have focused on “what this book actually represents” rather than “what it simply ‘is’.” And I should have realized that what seemed to be lies should instead be described as shortcomings in the “evaluative process in the recounting of history”.
However, since you mention foreign “radicals” and “activists”, and seem to regard their behaviour as unhelpful, perhaps you can answer the question that “Lena” dodged earlier.
Why do you regard it as unacceptable for foreigners to press for political change in Thailand, but totally acceptable for the foreigners who worked on KBAALW to write a deliberately misleading and dishonest book designed to maintain the political status quo? Surely if foreign journalists are knowingly peddling untruths about Thailand in support of a political position, they should be called out, regardless of which political position they support?
Revolutionary statues reloaded
I wonder where the statues for Prince Phetsarath or Souvanna Phouma are? I wonder if the government would ever consider Phetsarath in their revolutionary history?
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
Go to the Facebook “р╕Щр╕┤р╕Хр╕┤р╣Др╕Ч р╕гр╣Ир╕зр╕бр╣Гр╕Ир╕Ыр╕Бр╕Ыр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щ”. You’ll find many more and uglier threats than suggested in this article.
One picture in early Jan 2012 is the picture of traditional execution (cutting head by sword) and a smaller insert is the crop picture of the head of Aj Piyabutr, a member of the Nitirat group, on the ground. A caption reads “Whoever is rebellious (Kabot), Execute him.”
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
The Chinese element, so evident in this year’s gaudy New Year, seems part and parcel of the drum beat of alleged worship while ripping off the treasury.
The Manager Online comments were indeed par for the course as far as they are concerned. I wrote to them in Thai and English suggesting they put a couple of foreigners on their ASTV program who have a different idea about Article 112 and human rights…of course, no response.
Review of A Life’s Work
Stuart #99
“The fact that they have published the book is more because the likes of Handley, Marshall, New Mandala et al have “flushed them out” than any sense of altruism on their part.”
Interesting that you think it is only foreign ‘commentators’ worthy of mention when describing the ‘flushing’ and the ‘out’ ….. Especially when addressing Dr Thitinan Pongsudhirak…..
There is often something very high-handed and imperialist about the way some self perceived foreign ‘radicals’ or ‘activists’ view the process of political change in Thailand ….. The ‘White Man’s burden’ is alive and well apparently. That is not to denigrate Handley or the rest of them. Handley has written a very fair review of this work highlighting both the lack of evaluative process in the recounting of history (hence the Forrest Gump analogy) as well as a wider assessment of what this book actually represets rather than what it simply ‘is’.
Review of A Life’s Work
Stuart:
Somsak says he’s just got hold of the book (see ‘Reviews and reviews and reviews’) and is very interested to read the CPB and the Lese Majeste sections. He read the section about the death of Ananda first and says there are issues and that he’s going to expose these issues in a review. I think we’re talking net gain here. I agree with Thitinan – it is welcome.
Open letter about lese majeste
Richard:
> “… standing head and shoulders above much else I have read”
What else have you read? I read about one proposal that abolished the minimum, halved the maximum, and established a special office for processing accusations. This proposal would unmistakeably be a step forward. It’s also unmistakably simple. The abolishing of the minimum sentence, alone makes it infinitely better that the present law …or the alternative suggested here.
I’ll repeat the problematic proposal again: “make the punishment for offences against the King greater than that of ordinary individuals by 1 year“.
The suggestion is that ‘1 year’ (in a Thai jail) is anything like a reasonable sentence for a lese majeste transgression in 2012. One year for an SMS about the queen? One year for clicking ‘like’ on Facebook? Ridiculous. But the proposal is not for a one year sentence – it is one year tagged on to a [more substantial] main sentence.
And I really hope their: “To differentiate Article 112 of the Thai Criminal Code from being characterised as a national security offence” means the accused automatically get bail – because I see no passage like “the accused shall not be held indefinitely until deciding to plead guilty, all the while being subjected to threats about the CP coming in and giving him a good hiding” (see the Harry Nicolaides case.).
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
> “commentators cast the members of the Khana Nitirat as less then human”
I can’t parse this sentence. Was the (anon) author going for “human then less”?
Review of A Life’s Work
Thitinan Pongsudhirak (98)
A nice sentiment, but I have my doubts the project’s minders have any desire to engage in an open debate. The books smacks of a PR exercise, nothing more, designed to counter the increasingly expressed negative perceptions of the Thai monarchy overseas. I doubt they welcome the criticism (although they may well expect it). The fact that they have published the book is more because the likes of Handley, Marshall, New Mandala et al have “flushed them out” than any sense of altruism on their part. If they had their own way they would happily have us all live in their make-believe fairy dreamworld.
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
And there will always be those adding fuel to the flames from a distance as can be seen from Thanong Khanthong’s very recent tweets:
“Now with the emergence of the Nitirat Group, Thammsat University is turning for the worst — fatefully.
Both the students and the faculty members at Thammasat University have lost their way, failing to become a voice of the society.”
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
@Thomas Hoy asks: “Does the Computer Crimes Act prescribe any penalties for incitement to murder and arson via online postings?”
If you threaten, defame, insult, attack (either verbally or physically), witchhunt anyone who shows that they don’t like the King, you will never be charged. Instead, those who has been threatened, defamed, insulted, attacked (either verbally or physically), witchhunted, will be the one who will be charged because they don’t love the King.
Voila…land of Smiles
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
These people are insane, they wanted the history of the past reappears again hanging people by the tree, tossing people to the fire just like what those animals did then but they forgot the time now is 2012 and such act will not be allow to happen again and they are only the minority and if they start something up, it will be a civil war they’re starting up and the world will condemn the greens if they dare come out, sanction will be made to Thailand from round the world. It ain’t going be as easy as they thought and they will put our Monarchy in danger using them as the tool.
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
Does the Computer Crimes Act prescribe any penalties for incitement to murder and arson via online postings?